View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #5721
    Didnt Gene Roddenberry say that if it wasnt for SW ST would have dyed off?

  2. #5722
    That which cannot be known Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Anyone else notice the fact Scott completely IGNORED the quote in Star Trek stating their shields had just been hit with three terrawatts of energy and the ship barely rocked?

    If he can't fight it, he ignores it.

    George's CANON (movies) OVERRULES the DRIVEL in your books Scott.

    If we saw, EVEN ONCE on screen, the ability of a jedi to do half the SHIT you are saying, I would believe it.

    But you know what? Q can, and would, do it better.

    Why would Q get involved? Because he KNEW we could overcome the Dominion/Cardassians (and we did). He KNEW we would learn to adapt to the borg, and we did. He KNEW we would improve, and we have. He KNEW we would survive. And we have.

    If Trek was about to be wiped out (which as far as threats go, Star Wars is HARDLY a concern) then he would either make Star Wars vanish, or simply poof them back from where they came.

  3. #5723
    That which cannot be known Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fettman View Post
    Didnt Gene Roddenberry say that if it wasnt for SW ST would have dyed off?
    Not in the slightest mate, though Roddenberry has had some mighty good shows and even more good shows based off of his shows.

    Shows that give credit to ST:

    Andromeda
    Later Treks
    BattleStar Galactica
    The Last Starfighter (author gave props to trek)
    and a host of other shows, just to name a few

    What has Star Wars done? They created Special Effects. Whee. If they hadn't, someone ELSE would have.

  4. #5724
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    People like hellblade9 believe they know more than everyone. If George himself came on and said that Kai Al Mundi could fling a Star Destroyer into a moon, Hellblade8 would argue with him.

    As for his comic comment. George approved it and declared it in the EU canon, therefore it is canon. Which covers Cade bringing back the recently dead.

    The other feats I described are in novels.
    No I wouldn't. Stop being a jerk, and its Hellblade8, not nine. Oh, and if your so confident on that fact, why don't you E-Mail Lucas and ask him to pubically delcare this? And why would he set up layers of canon in the way he did? Allow me to explain, its because that while he wants people to expand upon his story, he wants what is the bottom line for facts to come from G-Level Canon. So, the Eclipse and the Sun Crusher are canon, but 12.5 gigaton weapons or Jedi Padawans tossing around fleets is not because it doesn't match up to what Lucas put in his movies. If Lucas wanted the Jedi to be so damn powerful, why not put it in his movies? Such things could easily have been done and would have been incredebly cool to watch on screen, and we all know that even if the plot or the dialouge is bad, Lucas always makes it look good. If its good, he makes it look great. If its crap, well, it looks like great crap.

    The fact of the matter is, he understands that each writer likes to do something his own way. Its part of what inspired Lucas to begin with if I recall, he wanted to do things his own way. Thus, he lets EU writers have incredible freedome while still keeping his image of Star Wars pure because everything when it comes down to it must conform or its non-canon in that paticular area. And for all of his faults, this is one of the things that I most respect about Lucas, that he is willing to allow such freedomes in his franchise, but rather than people like you just enjoying the ride, you want to take their work over his, to make his vision a thing to be crushed and sprayed with your fanboy wank just so you can dream that you can be on top.

    That is what I can't stand about you and your type. You take a kind gift and turn it into shit to rain on other people because you just can't stand that out of the two largets Sci-Fi franchises, yours is the technically inferior one. And really its all you have left to claim that Star Wars is better, since Star Wars is based around big explosions and Jedi eye-candy, and while that's all good and swell, its not nearly as deep and as interesting as Star Trek, which also has better space battles thanks to DS9. Both Star Wars and Star Trek are great, and in a way define what is to be a nerd or a geek, along with D&D.

    But for the love of Yahweh, stop being a stupid fanboy.

  5. #5725
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Anyone else notice the fact Scott completely IGNORED the quote in Star Trek stating their shields had just been hit with three terrawatts of energy and the ship barely rocked?
    I am not ignoring that, I was reconciling all the contradictory canon information. Obviously the 3 terawatt source was over a wider area. Much like it is easier to stop a hollowpoint than it is SLAP.

    If he can't fight it, he ignores it.
    Have you presented anything I couldn't fight? No.

    George's CANON (movies) OVERRULES the DRIVEL in your books Scott.
    Only where it directly disputes the books. Otherwise no overruling happens.

    If we saw, EVEN ONCE on screen, the ability of a jedi to do half the SHIT you are saying, I would believe it.
    I don't care if yopu believe it. Your belief is completely unneccesary.

    But you know what? Q can, and would, do it better.
    Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't

    Why would Q get involved? Because he KNEW we could overcome the Dominion/Cardassians (and we did). He KNEW we would learn to adapt to the borg, and we did. He KNEW we would improve, and we have. He KNEW we would survive. And we have.
    Or more likely it is like humans watching two nat colonies war. It's just not important to us. Besides SW humans are Humans too, so you point that he might protect humans negates his interference.

    If Trek was about to be wiped out (which as far as threats go, Star Wars is HARDLY a concern) then he would either make Star Wars vanish, or simply poof them back from where they came.
    He has never interfered before. He has never made a race disappear. The Douwd Uxbridge has, but he already lost Rishon so no motivation.

  6. #5726
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Not in the slightest mate, though Roddenberry has had some mighty good shows and even more good shows based off of his shows.
    God, Is Denial a river in Egypt to you. Gene has said several time if not for Star Wars then there would have been no Star trek movies and no Next generation.

    Shows that give credit to ST:

    Andromeda
    Later Treks
    BattleStar Galactica
    The Last Starfighter (author gave props to trek)
    and a host of other shows, just to name a few
    Funny that everything but the treks shows a closer resemblance to Star Wars than Star Trek.

  7. #5727
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    I am not ignoring that, I was reconciling all the contradictory canon information. Obviously the 3 terawatt source was over a wider area. Much like it is easier to stop a hollowpoint than it is SLAP.
    Except the 400 gigawatts didn't hit a single point, but rather all six shield grids. Can't get much more of a wider area than that. And how do you know it affected a large area? In fact, can Kitt give me the episode or describe it? I'll check it out for myself, and you better pray to Yahweh that it affected a wide area, or I am so going to beat the living shit out of your arguments with this.



    Only where it directly disputes the books. Otherwise no overruling happens.
    Ah, so if that means that Leia and Luke secretly had hot incest, then its canon?

  8. #5728
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Oh, how lucky you are TW, it was emitting an energy field. Or at least that's what I get from the script. Of course, fact of the matter is your theory is still unproven.

  9. #5729
    Minister of Technology
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellblade8 View Post
    Except the 400 gigawatts didn't hit a single point, but rather all six shield grids. Can't get much more of a wider area than that. And how do you know it affected a large area? In fact, can Kitt give me the episode or describe it? I'll check it out for myself, and you better pray to Yahweh that it affected a wide area, or I am so going to beat the living shit out of your arguments with this.
    Okay fine, beat my SBBP explanation all you want. It was a gift to ST debaters to disarm the whole Survivors argument anyways. You want to pull the teeth out of the pitbull I graciously gave you that is your concern.


    Ah, so if that means that Leia and Luke secretly had hot incest, then its canon?
    Only if it appears in a lucasfilm approved novel or comic.

  10. #5730
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Okay fine, beat my SBBP explanation all you want. It was a gift to ST debaters to disarm the whole Survivors argument anyways. You want to pull the teeth out of the pitbull I graciously gave you that is your concern.
    Wow, you really have an ego problem don't ya? The yield there is wrong, UFP ships can take much, much more energy than that. Easily proven in other episodes.

    Only if it appears in a lucasfilm approved novel or comic.
    Despite the fact that its retarded?

  11. #5731
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterprise-D View Post
    Just so TW knows, in the "Nth Degree", the probe device that was seemingly responsible for the failure of the Argus Array had weaponry - according to Data at 3 Terawatts (3000 Gigawatts). Enterprise barely rocks at it. I would say that's canon evidence that Enterprise-D can withstand more than 400GW. Still less than his much vaunted turbolaser, but I just wanted to prove TW wrong
    How can that prove me wrong?

    Question: Did 400 gigawatts bring down the shields in TNG: Survivors?
    Answer: Certainly

    It's a cannot fact and can't be argued. Which means there are time when 400 gigawats will tear down the shields of a Galaxy class starship. It could be a truly fortuitous placement. Or Douwd saw a weak point in the shields. But it happened.

    BTW next two shots blew shields and weapons offline and created hull breaches and injured people.

  12. #5732
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    And how about the fact that the Defiant changes size occasionally? Does this mean that the Defiant can magically change size?

  13. #5733
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellblade8 View Post
    Wow, you really have an ego problem don't ya? The yield there is wrong, UFP ships can take much, much more energy than that. Easily proven in other episodes.
    Well if you had tried to understand my hypothesis you would see that it explains how a Federation vessel can take such massive blows and also why thing like Borg cutter beams drain shields. But you're too busy attacking siomething you have not tried to comprehend.

    Despite the fact that its retarded?
    yes just like Star trek

  14. #5734
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellblade8 View Post
    And how about the fact that the Defiant changes size occasionally? Does this mean that the Defiant can magically change size?
    Like I said before if it was such a successful show, why couldn't they afford a continuity director?

  15. #5735
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Like I said before if it was such a successful show, why couldn't they afford a continuity director?
    What does it matter? You're avoiding the point, which is, if everything on screen is 100% pure canon despite what other episodes might say, then does that mean the Defiant can change its size? I mean, it is on screen and thus is canon.

  16. #5736
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Well if you had tried to understand my hypothesis you would see that it explains how a Federation vessel can take such massive blows and also why thing like Borg cutter beams drain shields. But you're too busy attacking siomething you have not tried to comprehend.
    Um, cutter beams don't drain shields. The Borg use different weapons to drain the shields, often in a pulse like weapon. Besides, the Borg often just ignore the shields thanks to shield modulations.



    yes just like Star trek
    Avoiding the point, which is that some things do not fit in Star Wars if they go against what is stated. The most firepower we have in Star Wars is being able to vaporize a small town. We also know that the entire Star Fleet cannot destroy a planet. To top it all off, we know that Jedi Masters cannot move around fleets, or they would have done so in the Clone Wars, and if Jedi Masters can't do it, Padwans likely can't either. Claiming otherwise is going against higher canon.

    Good day.

  17. #5737
    That which cannot be known Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Well, Star Wars has a distinct lack of continuity.

    A good example is Anikins face. His eyes change in distance over the course of movie 1 and movie 2. The eyes are a facial feature that DOES NOT CHANGE despite what many people believe. So are the ears. This is why Forensic scientists use them to do face profiling.

    No continuity there bub.

    Many a time in SW we see a ship get hit and the crew rocks the wrong direction. Whoopsie!

    Many times in SW we see explosions where there should not be any according to your logic.

    Star Wars = SIX movies. Continuity over SIX MOVIES is pretty easy.

    Star Trek is what... over TWO THOUSAND episodes and almost a dozen movies. Continuity over that would require far more time and effort than is feasible to get a series going with.

    For the number of on-screen hours compared to the number of continuity mistakes, Star Trek is over a million times more consistent than Star Wars.

    And you did ignore the 3 Terrawatt argument because that was as close to a Single Beam as an impact of such magnitude EVER got. If what you said is true, that 400 GW would have, at most, taken down the AFFECTED shield arc- it took out ALL the shields.

    This 3 TW one didn't even PHASE the ship.

    Continuity error or not, we see MANY times the ship taking huge amounts of firepower and barely rocking and VERY few times it taking small firepower and the shields failing.

    Could it have been a specific frequency? or perhaps a certain amplitude? Quantum interference perhaps? Just a useful plot hole maybe? OR HOW ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE GUY CONTROLLING THE ENTITY COULD MANIPULATE ENERGY AT WILL? That MIGHT have had something to do with it... you know, with shields being Energy based and all.

  18. #5738
    That which cannot be known Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellblade8 View Post
    What does it matter? You're avoiding the point, which is, if everything on screen is 100% pure canon despite what other episodes might say, then does that mean the Defiant can change its size? I mean, it is on screen and thus is canon.
    Yes, the defiant CAN change sizes. Now we have the power of a quantum torpedo in something the size of an X-wing piloted thanks to automated systems by ONE person. Now he can slip thru the shields of the DS 3 and wtfpwn it's exhaust port.

    GG Scott, QQSoft you just made Baby Jesus cry.

  19. #5739
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellblade8 View Post
    What does it matter? You're avoiding the point, which is, if everything on screen is 100% pure canon despite what other episodes might say, then does that mean the Defiant can change its size? I mean, it is on screen and thus is canon.
    the question is does it change sizes obviously (like being bigger than DS9 one week and smaller the next) or does it change size in Dialog? Remember most species can make mistakes/exaggerate.

  20. #5740
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    the question is does it change sizes obviously (like being bigger than DS9 one week and smaller the next) or does it change size in Dialog? Remember most species can make mistakes/exaggerate.
    On screen evidence. First we see it much larger than a fighter, then we see it barely four or five times the length, mistakes like that. In fact, the whole episode is filled with such mistakes, as well as the diagrams on the ship being wrong with the size and decks and then being right a few episodes later. Or something being too big to be on the ship when measured from the outside. Their consistancy is horrible in this area.


    And funny you consider that idea now, but not when Worf mentioned the 400 gigawatt yield.

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