View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #5341
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vasago View Post
    pfff. I'm not so into all this canon, non-cannon stuff.
    I must admit i was earger to believe ppl when then stated what was canon and what not. I've been a little bit to naief i guess.

    In my opinion the creator disides whether something is canon. Not the writers, director's or producers.
    In SW it's easy; when Lucas says it's canon it is.
    Butt for ST i find it dificult. I'm not sure who created ST. Was it this Gene fellow?
    But then again you have Voyager, DS9, among others. Who created these and is this still canon.

    So @scott I'm going to assume that nowhere in the movies it is stated how powerfull Htl are

    @ Kittamaru I'm sorry butt there are things that rases eyebrows. I find that there are a lot of contradictions in ST.

    Before i believe ppl again if will try to locate a source that isn't created bij one of the pro and contra's. Hope to find it soon.
    G level canon is the highest for Star Wars, and the first official canon material. The book states that TLs can only vaporize a small town. Read the rest of my posts for more on this subject.

  2. #5342
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellblade8 View Post
    G level canon is the highest for Star Wars, and the first official canon material. The book states that TLs can only vaporize a small town. Read the rest of my posts for more on this subject.
    If a TL can "vaporise" a small town it would be more powerfulle than the hiroshimabomb who left some buildings standing. and you say "only".
    I find that powerfull enough and then there are the heavy turbolazers and Superlazers.

    For torpedo's i've posted some questions a few pages ago but no-one seems willing to answer. not even scott. maybe there stupid questions butt i tink many people how aren't so into this STvsSW stuff will have the same.

    And an army can't be measured by his firepower alone. Or your us military wouldn't have any problem in Iraq or Afganistan.

  3. #5343
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Please repost them Vasago and I will do my best

  4. #5344
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vasago View Post
    @ SAQUIST i've made a little calculation. I'm not so into these number but there something i cant get.

    on your calculation a 25 isoton warhead gives 3,246 meagaton of destructive power. Yes ?
    I really wanna know you are refuring to TNT destructive power ?
    because if you know that the hiroshima bomb had 20kiloton then a isoton warhead equals 162,300x hiroshimabomb

    One warhead would be enough to blow away half the planet if not all.
    Sure one torpedo must be enough to blow away a asteroid then wouldn't it?
    Yet Riker said they needed 286 of them to do so.
    If you would trow 286 warheads it would be like dropping an elefant on a pee.


    I bet there are a few mistakes in my asumbsion and please correct them but is everything is like i think it is then thats a shitload of power.
    Imagine SG1 getting there hands on one of these. Ad a few pounds of that multiplying stuff (forgot the name) KABOOOM

    When scott and yourself accompanied bij hellblade start posting the pages start flying

  5. #5345
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    The USS Enterprise-D had lower "callibur" torpedos if you will. They had smaller launchers and weaker torps combared to the upgraded ones used in current Trek tech. Also, the asteroid was big enough to engulf the ship WITH room to manuver (if you are talking about the episode I am thinking about)

    To fully destroy an asteroid of such size WOULD require a lot more warheads than, say, an asteroid roughly the size of Voyager (a much smaller vessel)

    And the multiplying stuff you refer to is Naquadah

  6. #5346
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    The USS Enterprise-D had lower "callibur" torpedos if you will. They had smaller launchers and weaker torps combared to the upgraded ones used in current Trek tech. Also, the asteroid was big enough to engulf the ship WITH room to manuver (if you are talking about the episode I am thinking about)

    To fully destroy an asteroid of such size WOULD require a lot more warheads than, say, an asteroid roughly the size of Voyager (a much smaller vessel)

    And the multiplying stuff you refer to is Naquadah
    Thx for the info.

    But yet is Saquist is wright a 25isoton would be able to wipe out america,canada a a part of mexico. So if you trow lets say 5 on earth, there would be anything left. I think that a bit to much, don't you ?

    If a vessel can have let's say about 20 of them on board (or some 90iso..)
    if they where fired simultaniosly no shield could withstand ST or SW.
    I think we must take the numbers down a little, don't you agree?

  7. #5347
    And you should consider that every race has his turning point.
    Feds will probably aid the rebels in there fight against the empire.
    If you give quark the control over cloudcity he will give the empire every info they need. ferengi would sell out there own mother when they can ern a buck.

    This thread is more UFP against EMpire than STvsSW

  8. #5348
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Not really:

    TriCobalt devices are just that- they are highly destructive weapons. They are the artilliary equivalent of Photon torpedos.

    Just like we have your standard 120mm Main BattleTank Gun, Trek has Photon Torpedos. Phasers = their vulcan cannons. Quantum Torps = their howitzers. The TriCobalt device would be their power level equal to our Talmn-N Tomahawk cruise missile (Talmn-N refers to the Nuclear warhead)

    So it all evens out.

    The Federation likes to use Diplomacy more than pure brute force. Otherwise they'd simply arm every ship with as many weapons as they could.

    And Quark has shown loyalty to the Federation on more than one occasion. That and Rom (his son I believe) actually saved the Federation by disabling DS9 during the Cardassian occupation before they could obliterate the minefield.

    And you are right- it is more UFP vs Empire, which is a clearcut UFP victory once the Federation goes on the offensive. ST v SW may be very different (there are some damn powerful races in Wars but there are too in Trek)

  9. #5349
    The Fed. would side with the Empire!

    Lest they incur the wrath of the emperor!

  10. #5350
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Not really:

    TriCobalt devices are just that- they are highly destructive weapons. They are the artilliary equivalent of Photon torpedos.

    Just like we have your standard 120mm Main BattleTank Gun, Trek has Photon Torpedos. Phasers = their vulcan cannons. Quantum Torps = their howitzers. The TriCobalt device would be their power level equal to our Talmn-N Tomahawk cruise missile (Talmn-N refers to the Nuclear warhead)

    So it all evens out.

    The Federation likes to use Diplomacy more than pure brute force. Otherwise they'd simply arm every ship with as many weapons as they could.that could mean there downfall ask your ships don't pack there most powerfull weapons. If they are suddenly trown into war, the wouldn't have the time to get them. Not just meaning against the empire but anyother species aswell. It's very dangerous if your exploring space not to be prepared.

    And Quark has shown loyalty to the Federation on more than one occasion. That and Rom (his son I believe) actually saved the Federation by disabling DS9 during the Cardassian occupation before they could obliterate the minefield.I know Quark is loyal to ds9 butt i just use his name to make my point. Another ferengi wouldn't be so loyal. Butt let's let it rest here

    And you are right- it is more UFP vs Empire, which is a clearcut UFP victory once the Federation goes on the offensive. ST v SW may be very different (there are some damn powerful races in Wars but there are too in Trek)
    I must agree

  11. #5351
    @kittamaru

    I'm still puzzled how the hell a torpedo can be fired in warp. You say phasers can't because you would hit your own ship ( that seem very logical indeed)
    but doesn't a ship like voyager need to compress more space than a cofinsized torpedo? so doen't the torpedo have to travel trought the space that voyager is compressing? I guess that would sqeuze the torpedo to a size smaller than a pee ? Or i'm i so terribly wrong?

    The same thing aplies when a torpedo is chasing a ship. How the hell can it compress the same space a lot larger vessel is expanding? It would we pulled apart.

    Here's one for ya: how come in ST aswell as in SW a ship never loses his artificial gravity. I mean there are parts flying of your ship, powerfailures, core breaches ...... yet everyone is just walking around

    would be nice though seeing worf and chewbacca fight in zero gravity.

  12. #5352
    I still think that a blastradius isn't a good tool to calculate the power of a torp or missile or bomb. Seeming that is space there is almost nothing to stop the blast infact it could almost go on forever.

    So can't we presume that devices used in space are less powerfull?

  13. #5353
    I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Enterprise-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Wrong, killiong the queen kills the drones in the immediate area through backlash before new Queen is chosen.
    Rubbish. Where have you ever seen that? The only time a Queen was killed was in FC and STVOY: Endgame. In both instances, the entire Borg complex/ship/collective were poisoned (FC by a plasma cloud, STVOY by a neurovirus), so the Queen necessarily had to die with the rest of the drones.


    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    False, Troi is not a Telepath merely and Empathy
    Given, however, this is the closest canon that shows that the Borg are immune to mind tricks. She has stated on screen that she cannot sense an individual mind to affect. If she can't how the hell can any telepath? YOU cannot assume that the Borg CAN be affected by a telepath just because you think SW telepaths are superior.


    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    The force works where ever my friend. I wonder how you managed to get this idea.
    Sh*t, or else Obi Wan would have escaped his energy bonds that Lord Dukhu had him in on Episode 1. He had to wait to be rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    So, does death stop a Jedi or Sith
    Yes, they no longer affect the physical realm.

    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    true, but Coruscant as 12 Trillion sentients on it alone
    And? 12 Trillion + 1 trillion is still trillions. Tuvok, Janeway and Paris (in rescuing Seven) discovered a SINGLE Borg complex with trillions of drones. Out of the entire Delta Quadrant.

    PS I'm seeing Coruscant as populated by 2.8 Trillion, not 12. Provide me a link?

    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Incorrect as witnessed countless times on screen
    Seven of Nine has used Borg modulations countless of times to enhance both Voyager and the Delta Flyer. In Season 5, they encountered a subspace phenomenon that generated 30 million terajoules of energy. To facilitate an exploration mission, Seven proceded to modify the Delta Flyer's shield via her Borg knowledge (as stated by her) to withstand the phenomenon. It stands to reason that the Borg have the capability (if not the reflex to know when to implement it...they have to lose a couple Cubes before they DO 'modulate' shields).

    PS If the puny Delta Flyer can withstand THAT on it's limited power, think of what Voyager can. Heck, think of what Enterprise E can!
    Last edited by Enterprise-D; 06-21-07 at 08:52 AM.

  14. #5354
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vasago View Post
    ...still puzzled how the hell a torpedo can be fired in warp...
    Warp is a dodgy concept anyway. If you compress space you'd just move more slowly through that region. And your spaceship would also look squished.

    Worm holes on the other hand... now you can speculate beyond whatever the writers have 'said it is', since they theoretically exist(?).

  15. #5355
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vasago View Post
    When scott and yourself accompanied bij hellblade start posting the pages start flying
    Actually, what Riker said is that it would take most of their torps to destroy it, however, we don't know how many torps they had. Remember that a Galaxy class starship is basicly self supplying, so they hardly ever need to return to dock save to reload on photons torps and repairs. And remember, there was a ship in there. Riker said that they should destroy it to stop the Romulans from getting the ship inside. Not only that, but Riker was eager to destroy it, wanting to erase his shameful past. So in all likelyhood, Riker said something in the heat of a moment to ensure the total destruction of starship inside.

    Also, remember that thing was huge, outright massive. It was akin to watching a submarine searching the bottom trenches of the sea. The Enterprise was incredibly small compared to it. In fact, Data refered to it as a planetary body.

  16. #5356
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vasago View Post
    Thx for the info.

    But yet is Saquist is wright a 25isoton would be able to wipe out america,canada a a part of mexico. So if you trow lets say 5 on earth, there would be anything left. I think that a bit to much, don't you ?

    If a vessel can have let's say about 20 of them on board (or some 90iso..)
    if they where fired simultaniosly no shield could withstand ST or SW.
    I think we must take the numbers down a little, don't you agree?
    That would be too much. In the Die is Cast, assuming that the photons did even half the damage on screen, it would place them in the ranges of 14 million Megatons. Lowest yield (assuming the torps only did 10%) would be 24 thousand megatons, and the highest yield (assuming they did most of the damage) is closer to around 20 billion megatons.

    Mind you, these are also likely their strongest yield torps. However, that is more than enough to obliterate an enemy ship. In actuallity, UFP ships carry several ships with a range of yields. Stronger ones can be used at greater ranges, and weaker ones at shorter ranges. Its also been speculated that more recent photons hold weaker firepower, but greater shield penetration abilities, allowing them to use weapons with weaker yields, but still blast past the shielding.

  17. #5357
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vasago View Post
    @kittamaru

    I'm still puzzled how the hell a torpedo can be fired in warp. You say phasers can't because you would hit your own ship ( that seem very logical indeed)
    but doesn't a ship like voyager need to compress more space than a cofinsized torpedo? so doen't the torpedo have to travel trought the space that voyager is compressing? I guess that would sqeuze the torpedo to a size smaller than a pee ? Or i'm i so terribly wrong?

    The same thing aplies when a torpedo is chasing a ship. How the hell can it compress the same space a lot larger vessel is expanding? It would we pulled apart.

    Here's one for ya: how come in ST aswell as in SW a ship never loses his artificial gravity. I mean there are parts flying of your ship, powerfailures, core breaches ...... yet everyone is just walking around

    would be nice though seeing worf and chewbacca fight in zero gravity.
    Phasers can be fired at warp, its just that they're next to worthless when done so. This is because when the phasers pass through the warp field and enteres another one, its often reduced so greatly in power compared to sub-light speeds. Not to mention the extra power spent to send them at light speed. Photons have warp engines, as well as shields. This is the reason why they aren't shot down or can enter a sun or tear through a planet to reach a said point to detonate.

    As for gravity...its really because it wouldn't make the show dramatic.

  18. #5358
    I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Enterprise-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellblade8 View Post
    Actually, what Riker said is that it would take most of their torps to destroy it, however, we don't know how many torps they had. Remember that a Galaxy class starship is basicly self supplying, so they hardly ever need to return to dock save to reload on photons torps and repairs. And remember, there was a ship in there. Riker said that they should destroy it to stop the Romulans from getting the ship inside. Not only that, but Riker was eager to destroy it, wanting to erase his shameful past. So in all likelyhood, Riker said something in the heat of a moment to ensure the total destruction of starship inside.

    Also, remember that thing was huge, outright massive. It was akin to watching a submarine searching the bottom trenches of the sea. The Enterprise was incredibly small compared to it. In fact, Data refered to it as a planetary body.

    Let me put this to rest once and for all.

    1. The "asteroid" was so large that the Enterprise, the science vessel and the Romulan Warbird were all dwarfed by it. In fact, Enterprise D fit inside a tunnel in the "asteroid". The Warbird (twice the length of Enterprise D) looked like Mr. Peanut compared to the rock.

    2. The reason that Riker said it would take ALL their torpedoes is because they needed to utterly decimate the massive asteroid AND the Oberth Class starship inside, which contained a phase cloaking device. Picard (who didn't know about the cloak at first) and Riker (who did) were under orders from the Admiral responsible to achieve that if they could not stop the Romulans from discovering that secret.

    3. A single photon torpedo is capable of vaporizing a "normal size" asteroid (like the one used for those flaky SW calculations). This canon is seen in Voyager, S3...Janeway commits to helping a society from bombardment by asteroids. When they fire a single torpedo, Chakotay looks at the screen in consternation "That asteroid should have been vaporized". (It was not because it was artificial, it was armored inside and installed with guidance circuitry...an attack). Bear in mind that the artificial asteroid was still shattered.

  19. #5359
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterprise-D View Post
    Let me put this to rest once and for all.

    1. The "asteroid" was so large that the Enterprise, the science vessel and the Romulan Warbird were all dwarfed by it. In fact, Enterprise D fit inside a tunnel in the "asteroid". The Warbird (twice the length of Enterprise D) looked like Mr. Peanut compared to the rock.
    Agreed.

    2. The reason that Riker said it would take ALL their torpedoes is because they needed to utterly decimate the massive asteroid AND the Oberth Class starship inside, which contained a phase cloaking device. Picard (who didn't know about the cloak at first) and Riker (who did) were under orders from the Admiral responsible to achieve that if they could not stop the Romulans from discovering that secret.
    Actually, Riker did say most of their photons. He did not say all of them.

    3. A single photon torpedo is capable of vaporizing a "normal size" asteroid (like the one used for those flaky SW calculations). This canon is seen in Voyager, S3...Janeway commits to helping a society from bombardment by asteroids. When they fire a single torpedo, Chakotay looks at the screen in consternation "That asteroid should have been vaporized". (It was not because it was artificial, it was armored inside and installed with guidance circuitry...an attack). Bear in mind that the artificial asteroid was still shattered.
    Another good point.

  20. #5360
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vasago View Post
    @kittamaru

    I'm still puzzled how the hell a torpedo can be fired in warp. You say phasers can't because you would hit your own ship ( that seem very logical indeed)
    but doesn't a ship like voyager need to compress more space than a cofinsized torpedo? so doen't the torpedo have to travel trought the space that voyager is compressing? I guess that would sqeuze the torpedo to a size smaller than a pee ? Or i'm i so terribly wrong?

    The same thing aplies when a torpedo is chasing a ship. How the hell can it compress the same space a lot larger vessel is expanding? It would we pulled apart.

    Here's one for ya: how come in ST aswell as in SW a ship never loses his artificial gravity. I mean there are parts flying of your ship, powerfailures, core breaches ...... yet everyone is just walking around

    would be nice though seeing worf and chewbacca fight in zero gravity.
    Artificial gravity is created by the ships being so massive (a large mass can have gravity) as well as the SIF helping out.

    As for the torps- they have their own warp field, making them immune to the compression of another ships warp field. They are able to make warp on their own as they can catch ships at warp.

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