Star Wars vs Star Trek

[TW Scott]

Exactly, neither of these groups ar part of the Force.

Actually both the Vong and the V'oxxyn(sp?) did indeed have Midichlorians. The Vong were largely severed from the force when their homeworld (which theyr were symbionts with) was destroyed. They still did have a residual connection with the force and mnay jedi learned how to adjust their senses.

[Kittamaru]

Hardly, at the time Luke only had a year of formal training. I was referring to Luke later in life circa Betrayal




First of Sith are extremely talented at hiding that evil when needed. Witness Sidious.

Second the crew trusts Picard, sometimes his unorthodox or plain questionable orders have saved their lives when going another route would have killed them

third Picard could just order the computer to drop shields.




I don't care if you excuse my french, but how fucking stupid are you. First of all I am not the one who wrote the script and failed to realize Isoton was a real measurement. Second getting a fleet to abandon a system is just as effective destroying ship, you just herd them around until you have them pinned. Or did you think the only way to win is smash the enemy?



Were they firing Photon Torpedos? No The were using Plasma Torpedoes, specially prepared ionic torpedoes, and tri-colbalt devices. But that is the Romulans and Cardassians for you/




Given enough time they could level a planet, hell same can be said of aircraft carriers today.



Easy, the weapon in question was designed for area of effect sort of a reverse C4 which is more powerful that TNT but makes a smaller blast radius.




A: Photon cuased Long range shuttles warp core to breach.

B: Enough of any explosive can do that, doesn't mean it is used as everyday weapon.




Interesting quote there he was afraid he might vaporize an atmosphere. Just for the EXTREMELY bad science of that quote, i would have to say Mr. Scott was either drunk or having a blonde moment.




What they couldn't have had well designed powerpacks from their hand weapons and still have crappy ship weapons. Look the hand phaser of TOS is great, but in TNG they gimped it, an overloaded phaser is no more threat than a grenade.




Was level 16 enough to do that or was Riker bluffing? Since we never saw it done it is no different than the corbomite maneuver.

As for the Antimatter bomb well they were mixing together far more than they put inot a Photont torpedo


So yes, tell me all about how the UFP has weapons that don't exceed 20 tons worth of TNT. For you see, you have one small showing of weakness, and I have more than a couple handfuls of Star Trek firepower out the whazoo. So either you can cut the bullshit and back down now, or explain to me how all these events can be achived via 20 tons of TNT.





First of all No photon torpedoes where used in the assault on the supposed Founder homeworld. Specially prepared Plasma and Ionic torpedoes were used and undoubtedly tri-colbalt devices. I can say this with 100% certainity as neither Romulans or Cardassiaos use Photon Torpedoes

Second a Small Town can be 10 miles in radius. For a beam weapon to strike the center and vaporize the whole town is a feat that does require such a weapon.


In the end it comes down to it is repeated numerous times that the measurement is isoton which littlerall is 10^0 tons. Don't blame me, blame script writers.

Wow... i think I'm choking under the staggering amounts of bullshit..

Scott, since WHEN is it up to YOU to decide that Scotty was right or wrong? Or what kind of torpedos were being used? I never realized you were a writer for the Star Trek script!

[TW Scott]

Oh yeah that book, I've seen that one before. The engine on an Acclamator class ship looks more primitive than the plane turbofan engines we have today.

Hey it doesn't matter if looks primitive if it can perform.

[Kittamaru]

Welp, then Scott, you're own Star Wars books (young jedi knights and shadow academy) are wrong.

You're OWN CANNON is wrong according to you. You are NOT a source of higher cannon. So FUCK YOU.

[Kittamaru]

Hey it doesn't matter if looks primitive if it can perform.

You are very right... so apparently the empire cannot perform and the ewoks can.

GG. QQSoft.

[TW Scott]

Welp, then Scott, you're own Star Wars books (young jedi knights and shadow academy) are wrong.

You're OWN CANNON is wrong according to you. You are NOT a source of higher cannon. So FUCK YOU.

Keep reading asshole later books reveal the whole story. After your done I expect your apology

[Kittamaru]

You can expect it as much as you want. You are not deserving of one as, heh, I'm not wrong.

What they FELT was not the vong or the Voxxyn themselves but the actual void in the force where they were.

Yeah, fess up bitch.

[Kittamaru]

Oh, and by the way- i have the book right here in front of me. I do have to say Mara and Luke have more than their fair share of trouble don't they.

[TW Scott]

Oh, yeah its canon alright, but its not G-Level canon and it does not agree with what we see in G-Level Canon. Your suggesting that HTLs are at least 12.5 Gigatons and yet their medium Turbolasers are only about 2 or 5 megatons at the most. Given at best that HTLs would be about twice as strong as their normal counter parts, or even up to 4x as powerful (actually really fair of me), it at most comes to 8-20 megatons. Nothing compared to the firepower of a UFP ship. More likely around 4-10 megatons

And by the way, before you claim that the ships I'm taking my quote from an outdated ship, its only twenty years out of date, highely unlikely that they went from a handful of megatons to gigatons in less than twenty years.

And adding to the fact that Han himself said it was impossible for the entire fleet to accomplish, its sorta a hands down explination of just how weak Imperial firepower is.

Are you stupid? We NEVER saw and an Acclamator fire, so you are lying. We saw Venerators firing in ROTS, but even then they seemed no less powerful than ISD, which means they need AT LEAST 340 megaton weaponry as shown by calculation time and time again.

[Kittamaru]

I'll fix that for you scott and translate it from your delusional statements to what everyone else can understand.

Scott: I got proven wrong. WAAAH!

[Kittamaru]

Can't we lay it to rest? Even Wars supporters agree- scott is, at best, a very impolite sonuvabitch that can't back his facts!

[TW Scott]

Oh, and by the way- i have the book right here in front of me. I do have to say Mara and Luke have more than their fair share of trouble don't they.

Just wait till you see what becomes of Jacen in the latest trilogy.

[Kittamaru]

Nah, I've grown weary of the books to be honest. They make up so much extra crap that it isn't even star wars any more.

[TW Scott]

1. The death of the Borg Queen on any ship will not stop the drones, the central hive mind will simply take over.

Wrong, killiong the queen kills the drones in the immediate area through backlash before new Queen is chosen.

2. The Borg are immune to telepathy (Counselor Troi could not detect their minds).

False, Troi is not a Telepath merely and Empathy

3. The Force will not work when the wielder is held in a field containment device (see Ep 1). The Borg ship will simply encase Vader in a forcefield.

The force works where ever my friend. I wonder how you managed to get this idea.

4. Vader is dead. The Borg Queen can be reconstructed.

So, does death stop a Jedi or Sith

5. It is a matter of canon that Borg drones number in the trillions.

true, but Coruscant as 12 Trillion sentients on it alone

6. It is a matter of canon that Borg shield modulations can withstand enormous pounding (think millions of terajoules).

Incorrect as witnessed countless times on screen

[Hellblade8]

Hardly, at the time Luke only had a year of formal training. I was referring to Luke later in life circa Betrayal

Luke went one on one with two powerful Sith Lords and wasn't corrupted by the dark side. Furthermore, its a fact stated by Ben in Episode 4 where he says that the force can affect the weak minded. He said nothing about average or even strong minded people, just basic low intellect people. Try agian.

First of Sith are extremely talented at hiding that evil when needed. Witness Sidious.

Actually, it was the dark side blinding them if I remember correctly. Furthermore, there is no indication that a Sith Lord can hide his emotions, double so when they use it as their main source of power.

Second the crew trusts Picard, sometimes his unorthodox or plain questionable orders have saved their lives when going another route would have killed them

Yeah, lets ignore the fact that the captain has suddenly changed his orders, is acting strange, isn't responding to anything they say, and an unknown enemy ship is approaching. Yeah, nothing could possibly be up.

third Picard could just order the computer to drop shields.

Not without giving his securtiy voice code, something that Vader doesn't know. Also, its pretty funny that Vader never actually did this in the Hoth invasion.

I don't care if you excuse my french, but how fucking stupid are you. First of all I am not the one who wrote the script and failed to realize Isoton was a real measurement. Second getting a fleet to abandon a system is just as effective destroying ship, you just herd them around until you have them pinned. Or did you think the only way to win is smash the enemy?

Ah, so you acknowledge that they just made it up and thus had no intention to compare it to that of what is used today? Of course, you also ignore the obvious fact that a word can have two seperate meanings, or that they can change. Given the evidence I have shown, it would seem to lean in my favor. Oh, and before we go onwards, mind giving me the official definition for that isoton? Because I checked it up on Dictionary.com and they don't seem to have anything like that, save for links to Star Trek websites. They have Isotone, but no Isoton

Isotone by the way is:

One of two or more atoms whose nuclei have the same number of neutrons but different numbers of protons

So lets go there before anything else okay? Good.

Were they firing Photon Torpedos? No The were using Plasma Torpedoes, specially prepared ionic torpedoes, and tri-colbalt devices. But that is the Romulans and Cardassians for you/

No, they where not firing plasma torps, or Tri-Cobalt devices.

Given enough time they could level a planet, hell same can be said of aircraft carriers today.

No they couldn't. Even the Galaxy class carried no more than 250 torps at a time, max. Even assuming that many, the Enterprise wouldn't be able to do it wit 20 tons of TNT. And to add upon that, Bone's quote would suggest that the ship would have to do it in one sitting, basicly, they could not leave to get more ammo, or use more than the ships would be carrying. Given that phasers eventually run dry and they don't have an infinite number of torps, this would seem to counter your bull shit excuse.

Easy, the weapon in question was designed for area of effect sort of a reverse C4 which is more powerful that TNT but makes a smaller blast radius.

Excpet it also took out a one mile astroid, and anything else within those 800 kilometeres, the ship the crew was using just got a smidge of it and lost their warp matrix thanks to it.

A: Photon cuased Long range shuttles warp core to breach.

You mean ignoring the fact that there was a creature there generating a shield over it? Furthermore, if we assume that a warpcore would act like that, why do we not see massive explosions when UFP ships with much larger warpcores explode whe hit with a photon? We have seen three explosions of a Galaxy with a Warp Core breach at least. Each time the explosion is much larger than when the ship was destroyed by any other cause. Or any other UFP ship for that matter. So no, there is no indication that the shuttle's warpcore had anything to do with the large explosion that we saw.

B: Enough of any explosive can do that, doesn't mean it is used as everyday weapon.

Proof that this was done by many explosives or by a very unusual torp?

Interesting quote there he was afraid he might vaporize an atmosphere. Just for the EXTREMELY bad science of that quote, i would have to say Mr. Scott was either drunk or having a blonde moment.

Given how vaporize is their slang term for their NDF effects of lasers, that isn't really true. And furthermore, Mr. Scott was not drunk, and no one dared to question that idea.

What they couldn't have had well designed powerpacks from their hand weapons and still have crappy ship weapons. Look the hand phaser of TOS is great, but in TNG they gimped it, an overloaded phaser is no more threat than a grenade.

Or in more likelyhood, they put in a saftey feature so that the next time someone steals a phaser and sets it to overload, it doesn't take out an entire deck?

Was level 16 enough to do that or was Riker bluffing? Since we never saw it done it is no different than the corbomite maneuver.

Given that he was talking to UFP officers, I doubt it.

As for the Antimatter bomb well they were mixing together far more than they put inot a Photont torpedo

Oh, that much is granted, but they also rigged it up at the last minute to save their skins. So, they do have that level of firepower, which is now confirmed, thank you.

First of all No photon torpedoes where used in the assault on the supposed Founder homeworld. Specially prepared Plasma and Ionic torpedoes were used and undoubtedly tri-colbalt devices. I can say this with 100% certainity as neither Romulans or Cardassiaos use Photon Torpedoes

That's funny, you apparently don't understand anything about Plasma Torps. A Plasma Torp is red, globby, and slow. But assuming this was changed in the last century, there is the little fact that Plasma torps cover the target and force an implosion. What we saw in The Die is Cast where explosions. Furthermore, there is no such thing as Ionic torps (just searched two Trek sites, got nothing, and I never heard of them). And there is no evidence that a Tri-Cobalt device was used, double so when Tri-Cobalts are made up of three seperate pieces and are white. What we saw where single yellow and green balls of light.

Second a Small Town can be 10 miles in radius. For a beam weapon to strike the center and vaporize the whole town is a feat that does require such a weapon.

No it doesn't, and we aren't using the max here buddy, you have to use the averare, and the average small town isn't that big.

In the end it comes down to it is repeated numerous times that the measurement is isoton which littlerall is 10^0 tons. Don't blame me, blame script writers.

Except you know that isn't what they where refering to, is not used as such and is applied to weapons that blow the shit out of planets. So tell me again how that exactly works? And how is it that 10^0 tons could allow for even a weak ass photonic torp just invented in Enterprise to put a three kilometer crater into an astroid? And that is when it was just created.

Reed : "Photonic torpedoes. Their range is over fifty times greater than our conventional torpedoes. And they have a variable yield. They can knock the comm array off a shuttle pod without
scratching the hull, or they can put a three kilometer crater into an asteroid."

[Hellblade8]

Just wait till you see what becomes of Jacen in the latest trilogy.

Let me guess, you gave him a potion to make him a demi-god?


And by potion I mean you filled it with your fanboy wank.

[Hellblade8]

Are you stupid? We NEVER saw and an Acclamator fire, so you are lying. We saw Venerators firing in ROTS, but even then they seemed no less powerful than ISD, which means they need AT LEAST 340 megaton weaponry as shown by calculation time and time again.

...Do you listen? I am saying that the highest level of cannon sources say that you are WRONG. Lets take a look of the limitations of Imperial firepower.

1) The Death Star had a firepower of over half the Imperial fleet.

2) The Eclipse Destroyer, with a cannon that had 1/3rd the firepower of the Death Star, was only able to crack the crust of a planet, thus indicating that the Superlaser must have some sort of chain reaction effect.

3) In Revenge of the Sith book, its said that a Turbolaser can vaporize a small town. Small towns on average, are fairly small.

4) Han states in Episode 4 that not even the entire Starfleet could have destroyed Alderaan.

Given that the Death Star at even 2/3rds of its power wouldn't be able to destroy the planet (though it would fuck it up), and the evidence given by these two other facts, the Empire is in fact, very low on the notch of firepower needed to take on UFP ships.

[Lord Vasago]

pfff. I'm not so into all this canon, non-cannon stuff.
I must admit i was earger to believe ppl when then stated what was canon and what not. I've been a little bit to naief i guess.

In my opinion the creator disides whether something is canon. Not the writers, director's or producers.
In SW it's easy; when Lucas says it's canon it is.
Butt for ST i find it dificult. I'm not sure who created ST. Was it this Gene fellow?
But then again you have Voyager, DS9, among others. Who created these and is this still canon.

So @scott I'm going to assume that nowhere in the movies it is stated how powerfull Htl are

@ Kittamaru I'm sorry butt there are things that rases eyebrows. I find that there are a lot of contradictions in ST.

Before i believe ppl again if will try to locate a source that isn't created bij one of the pro and contra's. Hope to find it soon.

[Hellblade8]

Wrong, killiong the queen kills the drones in the immediate area through backlash before new Queen is chosen.

And just to be frank about this, the Queen isn't likely to be on said ship in the first place, and likely back in her territory surronded by thousands of Borg cubes. Given that one would smack entire fleets of ISDs around, she hardly needs to worry about Vader. And the drones don't just crash either, otherwise they would all go bat shit crazy walking around doing weird shit. A blow, but not a fatal one.

False, Troi is not a Telepath merely and Empathy

Wow, way to nitpick, he meant the same thing and its easy to confuse the two as Troi's mother is a telepath.

The force works where ever my friend. I wonder how you managed to get this idea.

Just like the Vong? The Borg and their ship are not part of the Force, thus Vader is boned.

[Lord Vasago]

Let me guess, you gave him a potion to make him a demi-god?


.

Maybe a potion where obelix fell into when he was a child