06-19-07, 07:16 AM #5221
you all seem so tense.. maybe you should take a free message from kirk. or maybe he can pass a hit to you
06-19-07, 07:35 AM #5222
[QUOTE=Kittamaru;1442867]Uhm... if humanity DIDN'T prevail, the show would end... heh. So it's kind of important that that happens.
Trek has variety in different missions, species look nicely unique and have learnable tounges (yes, Klingon is an actual language you can learn if you so wish)
To[QUOTE]in know it excists. I'm with bcd and there's a female member who speaks the language of Jabba the hutt. I mean she can have a conversation fluidly. As does she speak Quenya (from lord of the rings) So ? your point?
06-19-07, 08:37 AM #5223
06-19-07, 08:38 AM #5224
06-19-07, 08:51 AM #5225
06-19-07, 08:55 AM #5226
And firepower wise, its a bit hard to decide what it is on either side. The astroid example is the highest actual shown firepower on screen. No higher evidence.
Aside from that we have quotes. The first is Han's statement that not even the entire starfleet could have destroyed Alderaan. The second is the Death Star Quote, which Don stated to have firepower of over half the starfleet. Now, did he mean the turbolasers that the lasers that the fighters would have to evade, the Superlaser, or the whole station in and of itself? And exactly how large is the Starfleet and what would be in on that calc?
Now, Darkstar makes a good case when he claims that if Lucas had meant that, he would have had Han's statement match up with the later. Of course, it should be granted that it may have been a mistake on Lucas's part.
Wong suggests its the superlaser, and thus claims the firepower he does. However, the question can be taken either way and is far too unspecific to get a real lock on SW firepower.
However, the way I take it is via the Eclipse example. The Eclipse had a main cannon that was stated to be 1/3rd the firepower of the Death Star. Granting this, the cannon was only able to crack the surface of a planet. Impressive, but hardly the bang that Wong claims. He of course, tries to twist the quote, but I think the Super Laser may work on a chain reaction scale, pouring so much energy into a planet that it just tears it apart. Now, I often hate going to EU for firepower calcs since it jumps from low to the power to tear entire stars apart. However, in this case it would make sense given that thus the entire firepower of the fleet isn't enough to destroy a planet, but fuck it up pretty good.
06-19-07, 09:10 AM #5227
As for Star Trek against Star Wars, that would be an interesting battle, but I am somewhat unsure of how well the UFP and their allies could take the Empire, given just how large they are. Granted, their lack of building so many ships for their size works against them, but in a large war, they have the advantage in size and resources.
Last edited by Hellblade8; 06-19-07 at 09:18 AM.
06-19-07, 03:39 PM #5228
Additional: Base Delta Zero was executed by some 100 Imperial Star Destroyers One or two of which were ISD's. According to Canon. And it took an hour to accomplish... Hail the inferrior Empire.
The Asteroid vaporization scene in ESB takes a MINIMUM or 347.6104561 megatons just to heat the materials to the corresponding temperature. This does not count in the rapid work heating, the losses from convection/conduction, or the change of state energies.
Meanwhile you precious photon torpedo has a 25 ton warhead according to SI.
According to the most recient knowledge. Photons have a max yield of 200 ISOTON.
Canon representations illustrate that 1 Isoton equals about 264 mega tons. That's a direct correlation from the 5,000,000 Isoton figure given in Star Trek Voyager: Scorpion Part II.
Cannon refrences are there for superior to your noncanon representations. You foolishly continue to rely on them rater than be corrected.
06-19-07, 03:41 PM #5229
06-19-07, 03:48 PM #5230
This is a great representation of What Trek is capable of ....Those shock waves are covering continent sizes...undeniable proof of superior Firepower on Trek's behalf.
These ships litteral accomplished it's task in litterally a fraction of the time with less than half as many ships as the famed Base Delta Zero.
The evidence has been firmly on the Trek side since the begining.
06-19-07, 04:23 PM #5231
06-19-07, 04:24 PM #5232
06-19-07, 04:29 PM #5233
Saquist, where do you get the numbers saying 1 isotonne = 264 megatonnes? Just curious- I haven't heard that before myself, but it doesn't mean it's wrong
And that would make Quantum torps... just rape... and TriCobalts... *drools*
06-19-07, 05:19 PM #5234
Mathematical Proportion based on Canon Figures.
Star Trek Voyager:Scorpion Part II States:
5,000,000 Isoton yield disperses across 5 lightyears
Known Blast Radius
The Hiroshima bomb had a blast radius of about a mile (from yaho questions) They say a 1 mega ton nuclear weapon would effect about 7 miles.
Using a porportion...
seven miles across (5.8 trillion miles)ly x 5= 5 lightyears.
5,000,000 Iso ton warhead would equal a 4.2 billion mega tons.
1 ISOton equals about 840 megatons
making 25 ISOton warhead about 21,000 megatons....
I've got to confirm these numbers though....
This was much too High!...Ther parameters were refined to isolate a solarsystem blast radius.
Our solar system is 100,000 AU's across. (100,000 x 93,000,000 miles.)
If we use the proportion to calculate just the blast radius of the afore mentioned Solar system which at least 100 AU's then...
1 ISOTON equals 265 megaton of matter and antimatter as used in a torpedo.
at just 25 Iso tons a torpedo could produce a 6,642 megaton blast. Impressive....
I believe that the appropiate distance to use in this equation is 49 AU's for the blast radius. (Pluto's orbit)
I used a proportion to just scale down from the 265 mega ton number...
and it turns out...and this should be very reliable that...
1 ISOTON equal 129.85 megatons
A 25 Iston Warhead would be 3,246.35 Megatons...Nice...
All this based off Atomospheric blast radius...so Vaccuum blast would be proportionaly larger.
06-19-07, 07:01 PM #5235
I would like to point out however, that there was a difference between their estimation and what happened. The first quote says:
Tain : 'Our plan is to wait until we've entered orbit of the Founder's planet, then decloak and begin massive bombardment.'
Lovok : 'Computer analysis indicates that the planet's crust will be destroyed within one hour and the mantle within five.'
And yet we see them destroying 30% of the crust on their first shot. Now, the Romulans already had some knowledge on the type of planet it was (the UFP shared its gained knowledge with the Romulans as promised when the Romulans allowed the UFP to use the cloak for the Defiant). Given this, its unlikely that they would have made a mistake like that. My guess is that the Romulans and the Cardassians assumed there was going to be at least a few Jem'Hadar ships in a nearby area just in case, and that the Founders would have a planetary shield.
However, they had at first seemed to catch the Founders off guard, when really the Founders had already left and there was no need to activate a planetary sheild or have a few ships in to fight the fleet. Not when over a hundred ships where waiting nearby. I think this is the reason why no one on the bridge screamed WTF?!
They expected that kind of firepower.
06-19-07, 07:20 PM #5236
However, there was that one example from Skin of Evil where the fireball from bombing the surface with one photon torp caused a 300 kilometer fireball. I think it was calculated by the Daystrom Institute to be around 500 megatons.
Here is his calculations:
The fireball would not represent the blast radius of the explosion - it would take the blast some time to propagate outwards over a 150 km radius, but the fireball appeared instantly. Rather, this seems to be the area across which the much more rapid thermal effects would be starting fires. So we are using the first of the equations above. We can ignore the constant since it equals one :
r_thermal = Y0.41
150 = Y0.41
1502.44 = Y
Y = 203,020.39
This is in multiples of 2.5 kilotons, so the overall yield would be :
Yield = 203020.39 x 2,500
= 507,550,973.27 tons
= 507.55 Megatons
Or about five hundred megatons. This is a more than eight-fold increase over the yield suggested by the TNG TM, and significantly higher than the low end figures generated for the original series, though they are still modest compared to the kind of levels which would be required to truly devastate an entire planetary surface with just a few hundred weapons.
06-19-07, 07:27 PM #5237
06-19-07, 07:31 PM #5238
"The skies of Coruscant blaze with war.
The artificial daylight spread by the capital's orbital mirrors is sliced by intersecting flames of ion drives and punctuated by starburst explosions; contrails of debris raining into the atmosphere become tangled ribbons of cloud. The nightside sky is an infinite lattice of shining hairlines that interlock planetoids and track erratic spirals of glowing gnats. Beings watching from rooftops of Coruscant's endless cityscape can find it beautiful.
From the inside, it's different. The gnats are drive-glows of starfighters. The shining hairlines are light-scatter from turbolaser bolts powerful enough to vaporize a small town. The planetoids are capital ships."
06-19-07, 07:32 PM #5239
06-19-07, 07:36 PM #5240
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