View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #5221
    Registered Senior Member Hard For Kirk's Avatar
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    you all seem so tense.. maybe you should take a free message from kirk. or maybe he can pass a hit to you

  2. #5222
    [QUOTE=Kittamaru;1442867]Uhm... if humanity DIDN'T prevail, the show would end... heh. So it's kind of important that that happens.

    Trek has variety in different missions, species look nicely unique and have learnable tounges (yes, Klingon is an actual language you can learn if you so wish)

    To[QUOTE]in know it excists. I'm with bcd and there's a female member who speaks the language of Jabba the hutt. I mean she can have a conversation fluidly. As does she speak Quenya (from lord of the rings) So ? your point?

  3. #5223
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vasago View Post
    I've surfed the Stardestroyer.net and thought is was good. allthough i don't know much about the expanded universe i assumed i was learning stuff. I must thank u Hellblade8 to bringing it to my attention on the creater off it. I must say a can not an will not accept any1 messing around like that. I love all sci-fi (except Solaris, boy that was lame). I still can't figure out why so many ppl try do bring down StarWars and Startrek.
    @ scott: please gife me an other website where i can find some good stuff to debate with. I still want SW to win but not like this.
    Well, the first time I doubted him was when he claimed that the Slave II could bitch slap the Enterprise D, having seen Star Wars and Star Trek, but never debated before, I found that statement to be somewhat insane. Granted that, I looked to other places and Darkstar struck me of not being someone who's packing his numbers up the whazoo.

  4. #5224
    Quote Originally Posted by USS Enterprise-B View Post
    I have to say it, most of the people on this thread are for Star Trek right now. TW Scott, is, or at least was this biggest SW fan against ST, but only a few others are in this now.
    and some of us will never give up eighter, just maybe a little politer and realistic than scott.
    no offence scott

  5. #5225
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellblade8 View Post
    Well, the first time I doubted him was when he claimed that the Slave II could bitch slap the Enterprise D, having seen Star Wars and Star Trek, but never debated before, I found that statement to be somewhat insane. Granted that, I looked to other places and Darkstar struck me of not being someone who's packing his numbers up the whazoo.
    I really don't know the outcome of that battle but they both seem very manouverable, fast en dawn accurate. I don't care who wins but it would be a nice battle

  6. #5226
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vasago View Post
    ok so your torpedo's can go far. torpedo's can be targeted.
    Whe're talking close combat here.
    Let's say Scott is exagerating. And he multiplies everything by then. than the turbolazers still have a 0.12 gigawats. multiply this with the quantity of turbolazers and you still get a shit load of firepower.
    Can anyone give me some wright numbers for a change or can we finally come to a compromise on firepower from both sides?
    Well, actually, given how torps act, its speculated that their shielded (hence why you see the red and green glows). This is supported by the fact that the fact that these weapons aren't shot down, and how probes and photons can enter areas such as a sun and still not detonate. That and your talking about a very fast and small coffin sized torp zooming at you, kinda hard to hit.

    And firepower wise, its a bit hard to decide what it is on either side. The astroid example is the highest actual shown firepower on screen. No higher evidence.

    Aside from that we have quotes. The first is Han's statement that not even the entire starfleet could have destroyed Alderaan. The second is the Death Star Quote, which Don stated to have firepower of over half the starfleet. Now, did he mean the turbolasers that the lasers that the fighters would have to evade, the Superlaser, or the whole station in and of itself? And exactly how large is the Starfleet and what would be in on that calc?

    Now, Darkstar makes a good case when he claims that if Lucas had meant that, he would have had Han's statement match up with the later. Of course, it should be granted that it may have been a mistake on Lucas's part.

    Wong suggests its the superlaser, and thus claims the firepower he does. However, the question can be taken either way and is far too unspecific to get a real lock on SW firepower.

    However, the way I take it is via the Eclipse example. The Eclipse had a main cannon that was stated to be 1/3rd the firepower of the Death Star. Granting this, the cannon was only able to crack the surface of a planet. Impressive, but hardly the bang that Wong claims. He of course, tries to twist the quote, but I think the Super Laser may work on a chain reaction scale, pouring so much energy into a planet that it just tears it apart. Now, I often hate going to EU for firepower calcs since it jumps from low to the power to tear entire stars apart. However, in this case it would make sense given that thus the entire firepower of the fleet isn't enough to destroy a planet, but fuck it up pretty good.

  7. #5227
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    1,099
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vasago View Post
    I really don't know the outcome of that battle but they both seem very manouverable, fast en dawn accurate. I don't care who wins but it would be a nice battle
    Well, the problem here is that the Galaxy class is the equal of a warship, and the other is a hyped up freighter/fighter ship. But claiming that something as small and weak oriented as Slave II being able to crush a large warship is somewhat disturbing. Possible in some cases, such as with 8472, but with something as simple as Slave II, it sounds like fanboy wank.

    As for Star Trek against Star Wars, that would be an interesting battle, but I am somewhat unsure of how well the UFP and their allies could take the Empire, given just how large they are. Granted, their lack of building so many ships for their size works against them, but in a large war, they have the advantage in size and resources.
    Last edited by Hellblade8; 06-19-07 at 09:18 AM.

  8. #5228
    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    To pull off the same thing that 40 Romulan and Cardassian cruisers attempted the Empire needs only send ONE Imperial Star Destroyer.
    That's a lie. 40 ships were not seen on screen. At most 10 to 13
    Additional: Base Delta Zero was executed by some 100 Imperial Star Destroyers One or two of which were ISD's. According to Canon. And it took an hour to accomplish... Hail the inferrior Empire.



    The Asteroid vaporization scene in ESB takes a MINIMUM or 347.6104561 megatons just to heat the materials to the corresponding temperature. This does not count in the rapid work heating, the losses from convection/conduction, or the change of state energies.
    Unverifiable.


    Meanwhile you precious photon torpedo has a 25 ton warhead according to SI.
    NonCannon:

    According to the most recient knowledge. Photons have a max yield of 200 ISOTON.

    Canon representations illustrate that 1 Isoton equals about 264 mega tons. That's a direct correlation from the 5,000,000 Isoton figure given in Star Trek Voyager: Scorpion Part II.

    Cannon refrences are there for superior to your noncanon representations. You foolishly continue to rely on them rater than be corrected.

  9. #5229
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Shield Harmonics > No Harmonics. Shields are electric of some form in nature- they MUST have a frequency of some sort. Even direct current has a frequency.

    Thus it stands to reason Star Wars shields have some form of frequency- they just cannot change them.
    That's correct. The idea that an energy shield doesn't have a frequecies implies that

    1) The shield does not stop coherent light from lasers.
    2) The shield is not actually energy. All energy has an frequency modulation and an amplitude modulation.

  10. #5230
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellblade8 View Post
    Good point, so the mine would have been made for the purpose of causing a massive seismic wave. Hardly anything to be too proud about, though nifty. But considering he set it within the astroid, its hardly anything to be proud about.

    But it does remind me of this:






    This is a great representation of What Trek is capable of ....Those shock waves are covering continent sizes...undeniable proof of superior Firepower on Trek's behalf.

    These ships litteral accomplished it's task in litterally a fraction of the time with less than half as many ships as the famed Base Delta Zero.

    The evidence has been firmly on the Trek side since the begining.

  11. #5231
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vasago View Post
    I have a question. Is we send a ship the size of the milenium falcon on a coallisioncourse with Voyager, what would happen. What ship would survive the coallison. None? If so was is a good tactic? a ship like the falcon can be flown bij a few droids. I don't know howmany ppl are on board of voyager but i'll bet the're more tha 500 aren't there.
    Can anyone proof to me ST sensor can detect Hyperspace. Because I hope someone can proof me wrong on this. I like ST to much to see them blown away that easily. Your shield won't do a thing so I hope your sensor do.
    It'd never hit Voyager mate- should Voyagers impulse drive be unable to outrun the Falcon's ion drives, it'd simply make a microwarp jump and blow the falcon to hell as it flys past.

  12. #5232
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vasago View Post
    Not to be nitpicking but you say we can't use thousands of ISD's because you can't see them in the movies butt yet you clame Borg have millions, but are they shown. I not desputing that thare aren't millions of borg vessels but don't you dispute then that there aren't thousands of isd either peace
    The number of borg vessels have been shown in the UniMatrix scenese in Voyager. All those conduits opening and closing transpoting borg ships everywhere... yeah.

  13. #5233
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Saquist, where do you get the numbers saying 1 isotonne = 264 megatonnes? Just curious- I haven't heard that before myself, but it doesn't mean it's wrong

    And that would make Quantum torps... just rape... and TriCobalts... *drools*

  14. #5234
    Mathematical Proportion based on Canon Figures.

    Star Trek Voyager:Scorpion Part II States:

    5,000,000 Isoton yield disperses across 5 lightyears

    Known Blast Radius

    The Hiroshima bomb had a blast radius of about a mile (from yaho questions) They say a 1 mega ton nuclear weapon would effect about 7 miles.

    Using a porportion...

    seven miles across (5.8 trillion miles)ly x 5= 5 lightyears.

    5,000,000 Iso ton warhead would equal a 4.2 billion mega tons.


    1 ISOton equals about 840 megatons

    making 25 ISOton warhead about 21,000 megatons....
    I've got to confirm these numbers though....

    This was much too High!...Ther parameters were refined to isolate a solarsystem blast radius.

    Our solar system is 100,000 AU's across. (100,000 x 93,000,000 miles.)


    If we use the proportion to calculate just the blast radius of the afore mentioned Solar system which at least 100 AU's then...

    1 ISOTON equals 265 megaton of matter and antimatter as used in a torpedo.

    at just 25 Iso tons a torpedo could produce a 6,642 megaton blast. Impressive....


    However....

    I believe that the appropiate distance to use in this equation is 49 AU's for the blast radius. (Pluto's orbit)

    I used a proportion to just scale down from the 265 mega ton number...
    and it turns out...and this should be very reliable that...

    1 ISOTON equal 129.85 megatons

    A 25 Iston Warhead would be 3,246.35 Megatons...Nice...

    All this based off Atomospheric blast radius...so Vaccuum blast would be proportionaly larger.

  15. #5235
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    That's a lie. 40 ships were not seen on screen. At most 10 to 13
    Additional: Base Delta Zero was executed by some 100 Imperial Star Destroyers One or two of which were ISD's. According to Canon. And it took an hour to accomplish... Hail the inferrior Empire.
    There are 20 ships present, I made the first mistake of saying there where 40 before in this thread. However, we only saw 10 or 13 fire on screen. It could mean that they where going to take shifts blasting the planet, or they all fired at the planet, either way, its far more power than we see the Empire putting out.

    I would like to point out however, that there was a difference between their estimation and what happened. The first quote says:

    Tain : 'Our plan is to wait until we've entered orbit of the Founder's planet, then decloak and begin massive bombardment.'
    Lovok : 'Computer analysis indicates that the planet's crust will be destroyed within one hour and the mantle within five.'

    And yet we see them destroying 30% of the crust on their first shot. Now, the Romulans already had some knowledge on the type of planet it was (the UFP shared its gained knowledge with the Romulans as promised when the Romulans allowed the UFP to use the cloak for the Defiant). Given this, its unlikely that they would have made a mistake like that. My guess is that the Romulans and the Cardassians assumed there was going to be at least a few Jem'Hadar ships in a nearby area just in case, and that the Founders would have a planetary shield.

    However, they had at first seemed to catch the Founders off guard, when really the Founders had already left and there was no need to activate a planetary sheild or have a few ships in to fight the fleet. Not when over a hundred ships where waiting nearby. I think this is the reason why no one on the bridge screamed WTF?!

    They expected that kind of firepower.

  16. #5236
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Mathematical Proportion based on Canon Figures.

    Star Trek Voyager:Scorpion Part II States:

    5,000,000 Isoton yield disperses across 5 lightyears

    Known Blast Radius

    The Hiroshima bomb had a blast radius of about a mile (from yaho questions) They say a 1 mega ton nuclear weapon would effect about 7 miles.

    Using a porportion...

    seven miles across (5.8 trillion miles)ly x 5= 5 lightyears.

    5,000,000 Iso ton warhead would equal a 4.2 billion mega tons.


    1 ISOton equals about 840 megatons

    making 25 ISOton warhead about 21,000 megatons....
    I've got to confirm these numbers though....

    This was much too High!...Ther parameters were refined to isolate a solarsystem blast radius.

    Our solar system is 100,000 AU's across. (100,000 x 93,000,000 miles.)


    If we use the proportion to calculate just the blast radius of the afore mentioned Solar system which at least 100 AU's then...

    1 ISOTON equals 265 megaton of matter and antimatter as used in a torpedo.

    at just 25 Iso tons a torpedo could produce a 6,642 megaton blast. Impressive....


    However....

    I believe that the appropiate distance to use in this equation is 49 AU's for the blast radius. (Pluto's orbit)

    I used a proportion to just scale down from the 265 mega ton number...
    and it turns out...and this should be very reliable that...

    1 ISOTON equal 129.85 megatons

    A 25 Iston Warhead would be 3,246.35 Megatons...Nice...

    All this based off Atomospheric blast radius...so Vaccuum blast would be proportionaly larger.
    Are these calculations for an explosion that would engulf a solar system? Because the mine that the Borg where making was meant to send nanoprobes all over the solar system. So the mine would have to be powerful enough to spread millions of nanoprobes over that area.

    However, there was that one example from Skin of Evil where the fireball from bombing the surface with one photon torp caused a 300 kilometer fireball. I think it was calculated by the Daystrom Institute to be around 500 megatons.

    Here is his calculations:

    The fireball would not represent the blast radius of the explosion - it would take the blast some time to propagate outwards over a 150 km radius, but the fireball appeared instantly. Rather, this seems to be the area across which the much more rapid thermal effects would be starting fires. So we are using the first of the equations above. We can ignore the constant since it equals one :

    r_thermal = Y0.41
    150 = Y0.41
    1502.44 = Y
    Y = 203,020.39


    This is in multiples of 2.5 kilotons, so the overall yield would be :

    Yield = 203020.39 x 2,500
    = 507,550,973.27 tons
    = 507.55 Megatons


    Or about five hundred megatons. This is a more than eight-fold increase over the yield suggested by the TNG TM, and significantly higher than the low end figures generated for the original series, though they are still modest compared to the kind of levels which would be required to truly devastate an entire planetary surface with just a few hundred weapons.
    And here is the picture just for refrence:



  17. #5237
    Very Special Senior Member USS Athens's Avatar
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    So are ST weaponry more powerful than SW?

  18. #5238
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USS Enterprise-B View Post
    So are ST weaponry more powerful than SW?
    In the SW novel of Empire Strikes Back, it says this:

    "The skies of Coruscant blaze with war.

    The artificial daylight spread by the capital's orbital mirrors is sliced by intersecting flames of ion drives and punctuated by starburst explosions; contrails of debris raining into the atmosphere become tangled ribbons of cloud. The nightside sky is an infinite lattice of shining hairlines that interlock planetoids and track erratic spirals of glowing gnats. Beings watching from rooftops of Coruscant's endless cityscape can find it beautiful.

    From the inside, it's different. The gnats are drive-glows of starfighters. The shining hairlines are light-scatter from turbolaser bolts powerful enough to vaporize a small town. The planetoids are capital ships."
    As cool as vaporizing a small town is, its not nearly as powerful as a photon torp. Which we saw produce a large fireball instantly when it hit. One that was easily seen from afar by the Enterprise D.

  19. #5239
    Very Special Senior Member USS Athens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Than either rpesent them or admit you are lying.



    Sorry, but ST canon fully supports this. Though you will not that I explained why a vessel can survive a more forceful impact in my methodology.
    Some passages of information can be contradictory.

  20. #5240
    Very Special Senior Member USS Athens's Avatar
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    Okay, how powerful is a st sheild compared to a sw sheild?

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