Star Wars vs Star Trek

[Lord Vasago]

*sighs* The Scimitar had a PERFECT cloak- no emissions of any type and barely any optical distortion. Torpedo's need something to lock onto, even if it's only guidance from the launching ship. Without that, they, obviously, won't hit whatever your shooting at.

The Enterprise-E was fighting blind until after the Scimitars Thalaron Cloak was disabled.

I HIGHLY doubt that Wars ships Have Thalaron cloaks...

I know SW has some kind of cloak that blends all, butt the problem is that the ship using it is blind as well and had no means of communication, thus that isn't very practical in battle i think, unless your hiding in an asteroidbelt.

Why did the federation destroy this SCimitar ? I never saw this but it seems they had better tech than Federation. Or was i to hard to obtain this ?

[Kittamaru]

The Scimitar had to be destroyed- it's thalaron weapon was:

A) Highly Illegal
B) Very Volatile (dangerous)
C) Could wipe out all life on any planet it trained the weapon on
D) Was piloted by a crazy dying gu (Schinzon)

And yeah, Wars cloaks are kind of crappy... you can find them via visual distortion (although it's hard) and they also stop you from doing anything useful yourself (can you fire thru a wars cloak? And if so, it's pointless-simply target the weapons point of origin)

[Enterprise-D]

As a matter of fact they have Warp sustainer engines. Meaning if luanched at warp they don't immediately drop to sublight. However they cannot achieve Warp on their own if fired from stationary or sublight ship.

Quite true, that's why I said they can sustain their warp field (rather than generate), I couldn't remember if the phrase used was "warp sustainer" or if I made that up in my head

[Enterprise-D]

So the vessel was carrying an Illegal weapon as part of it's mission to enforce the law? What are you smoking?

Also Speculation: Not to mention Incorrect. The Tri-cobalt device created a subspace tear aswell from which the tetryon core was pulled through. Apparently it was a very predictable result.

Hence not surprising, you're wrong again. Additional: The sona were not using Tri Cobalt devices.

The tricobalt torpedo is NOT a subspace weapon. It is an high yield, long range explosive force when configured with a high enough yield is capable of causing a subspace tear, however in and of itself was not designed as a subspace weapon - since at "lower" configurations will not cause any subspace disturbance. The tricobalt torpedo is not illegal, and has never been stated as being illegal. It can only be assumed as illegal to - for example - stack the odds in favour of SW, but canon usage of the weapon suggests otherwise.

That being said, they are also not necessarily part of a standard starship's complement, issued by Starfleet when necessary - stated by Seven, confirmed by Janeway...but I'd say the appearance of ISDs would qualify.

Also considering the size comparison of the Array v an ISD, a Fed ship/Romulan Warbird/Klingon NeghVar what have you would only need to fire a single tricobalt device to destroy an ISD.



The Son'a were not using tricobalt torpedoes they were using what were merely referred to as "isolytic subspace weaponry", the tear effect of which worsens as it progresses towards a warp device (ST: Insurrection). Enterprise E had to jettison the warp core. Clearly this weapon could not be tuned to be anything less than subspace afflicting, thus highly illegal.

By the way Scott, illegality and availability for use are two entirely different things. Just pointing that out.

So obviously Torpedoes travel only a few thousand km per hour. Not at warp speeds.

Firing from a stationary ship at a stationary target, is matters not that torps travel slowly. It's quick enough. And as you know TW, this is easily circumvented by simply jumping to warp 1 and firing. The torpedo will take over from there .

[Sarkus]

What a sec?
So ST books cant enter the game while SW books can?
How the HELL is that fair?

The overall owners of the franchise deem what is canon.

Star Wars Canon is, as defined by Lucasfilm: ""'Gospel,' or canon as we refer to it, includes the screenplays, the films, the radio dramas and the novelizations. These works spin out of George Lucas' original stories, the rest are written by other writers. However, between us, we've read everything, and much of it is taken into account in the overall continuity. The entire catalog of published works comprises a vast history—with many off-shoots, variations and tangents—like any other well-developed mythology." http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon

Paramount - the owners of Star Trek: "As a rule of thumb, the events that take place within the live-action episodes and movies are canon, or official Star Trek facts. Story lines, characters, events, stardates, etc. that take place within the fictional novels, video games, the Animated Series, and the various comic lines have traditionally not been considered part of the canon." - taken from a FAQ on the official Star Trek website. http://www.startrek.com/startrek/vie...s/faq/676.html

However, the ST people stress that what constitutes their canon isn't set in stone - and most accept the books written by Jeri Taylor, as well as certain elements of the animated series.


So to include all the ST books is actually wrong.

Videogames for both do seem to be excluded from canon - so can NOT be included.

[Enterprise-D]

euh excuse me ? torpedo's are ineffective against cloaked ships?
So what's the use of all this arguing about how powerfull they are?
SW capital ships all have cloakdevices.
as stated by the admiral when they lost the millenium falcon
"A ship that small doesn't have a cloakdevice"

and yet ... SW battle is nose to nose. How long does it take for a torpedo to go in warp ?

1. Torpedoes are more effective against cloaked ships since a cloak is a shield and requires the normal defensive shields to be down. The only problem is to find the cloaked vessel.

2. "A ship that small doesn't have a cloak device" does not in any way mean that all capital ships have a cloaking device. It just means that a ship that small doesn't have one! More than likely having to do with space and power constrictions.

3. A torpedo can be launched at warp; ie. warp flight from the instant of firing.

I know this maybe a stupid question but how many phasers can the best ship of the federation, fire at the same time ? and isn't the back of the belly a blind spot for phasers? i mean if you look at a typical ship of the federation, you may even have phasers on top and bottom of the saucer, how the hell do you fire against a ship or torpedo when it's comming under your back, without shooting your own hull apart?

1. All phasers can be fired at almost the same time (see ST: Nemesis after Picard orders "Fire all ventral phasers, lateral targeting" or whatever it was he said It was one of the fastest phaser attacks executed by a Trek ship I can recall at the moment.

2. The back is not a blind spot for the saucer phasers, there is at least one torpedo launcher between the warp nacelles of a Galaxy Class. The saucer phasers can be fired downward, but up to a certain angle of course, which is why ships move in battle. Or they can just use torpedoes which will go wherever the target is.

[Enterprise-D]

What a sec?
So ST books cant enter the game while SW books can?
How the HELL is that fair?

Quite so, Lucasfilm has declared something of a canon ladder, with the movies being unchallengable, and the rest of published works being "pseudocanon" provided they don't mess with continuity.

It does not provide for a easy comparison needless to say, since some interesting Trek abilities occur in books, as with Wars. But, Trek still has the ability even with canon tech and allied forces to provide victory over Wars.

[Saquist]

The tricobalt torpedo is NOT a subspace weapon. It is an high yield, long range explosive force when configured with a high enough yield is capable of causing a subspace tear, however in and of itself was not designed as a subspace weapon - since at "lower" configurations will not cause any subspace disturbance. The tricobalt torpedo is not illegal, and has never been stated as being illegal. It can only be assumed as illegal to - for example - stack the odds in favour of SW, but canon usage of the weapon suggests otherwise.

Seven of Nine stated the weapons were illegal and required special order. If memory serves.

[temur]

Star Wars won!

[Saquist]

Star Wars won!

...the popularity contest. Star Trek wins the fight.

[Enterprise-D]

Seven of Nine stated the weapons were illegal and required special order. If memory serves.

She did no such thing. The conversation was an investigation on Seven's part:

7: "Are tricobalt devices part of the standard compliment of a starship"
J: "No...they're not"
7: "And yet you were issued the very same devices required to destroy the Array"

This does not indicate they're illegal, only special ordered.

[Saquist]

That's not the part I remember. i've tried to find a script and I can not.
I assume you have the episode and that was the only relevant dialogue pertaining to the tricobalt devices themselves?

[Kittamaru]

Actually, now that I think about it, the SteamRunner class was modified to carry a loadout of TriCobalt devices during the Dominion Wars wasn't it? I mean, it WAS basicly a torpedo boat (much like the newer Akira class)

[Saquist]

That was a game called "Armada"

[Enterprise-D]

Saquist: I have the episode, and that was the relevant dialog to their distribution and/or legality.

Kitt: The Steamrunner makes onscreen time (hence is a canon design), however we only know it's called a Steamrunner because of ST:Armada. I don't recall it's class name being said on screen. Both it and tricobalt are canon however, feel free to combine their possibilities

[Saquist]

Then I was wrong...Tri-cobalt are legal weaponry....Excellent.

[Saquist]

Yet they caused a subspace tear....I see...that's how I came to that conclussion...

They just might be illegal.. Theres differences though. the Tear with the Tri-cobalt device was not permanent or damaging to subspace. but they still could be subspace weapons.

While tri-cobalt devices have been used throughout trek Did not the first real world application occur in Star Trek Voyager...then DS9 and then Enterprise. (It goes backwards)

And Voyager is the only time it is seen in torpedo form. Every other time it is mentioned in bomb form.

[Enterprise-D]

No, tricobalt devices are not core subspace weapons...they can cause a subspace tear only IF their yield is adjusted high enough. But by and large they are used because of the wider and more forceful explosive damage.

[Kittamaru]

So via the incredible sheer explosive power, they can rend a hole in the fabric of space itself?

That's... incredible to say the least... the kind of power needed to do this is outrageous.

[USS Athens]

Then I was wrong...Tri-cobalt are legal weaponry....Excellent.

There was a debate on whether they were subspace weaponry or not.