Star Wars vs Star Trek

[FoolFromHell]

I don't have to prove they are gone. You have to prove they are still around. The Dyson sphere was abandoned so obviously something happened.

Well. The brains of SW generals were also abandoned... so obviously something happened...
I mean? WTF was up with Tarkin not retreating? Or with the Council recruiting Anakin?

[Kittamaru]

Actually, based on the conversations given by those that have used tricobalt devices, their approximate warhead yield WAS given en cannon.

Given it's rate of expansion to cover such a large area of space with the nanite "virus" material, it would have to have a certain explosive power. I forget where I saw the calculations run (I'll see if I can find them), but it came out to somewhere along the lines of 2184 terrawatts of power released in the blast.

Also, while subspace weaponry is outlawed, it exists... and I dare say (once more) that a Super Star Destroyer would not fare well against being dragged out of the fabric of space and time itself. Granted, they are normally attracted to warp cores, but there are ways of pulling them along

LaForge- We're pulling it across space like a Zipper.
Riker- Eject the Core
LaForge- I just did

Star Trek: Insurrection

Remote controlled ships like the delta flyer in size and power could be used to "tow" these rifts across space. Given the far superior tactical speed (combat velocity) of Trek ships over Wars ships, it would be mere moments before this rift was pulled across the midsection of the poor ISD, rending it clean in two and most likely detonating it's own power core.

[Saquist]

By the way, I want to point out something. No particle is massless. They maybe be effectively massless, but that is not the same thing.

I realize this is somewhat theorectical and subject to be thrown out. But these particles have no mass. No mass is ever observed. There particle like behavior is due to the virtual paricle medium that their energy is passing through. Through these massless particle we are actually observing the very fabric of space or...Quintessence.

Vasago: Torpedos in ST have (pared-down) warp engines. They are capable of sustaining their own warp field. The ship does not assist the torpedo to its target. This has been stated by characters in multiple episodes of various series, inclusive of Kirk, Data, LaForge, Dax (I remember these characters mentioning torpedoes and their own warp engines or warp fields, however I can't reference the exact episodes at the moment).

Worfs mate, K'Elar, was transported in a torpedo tube which traveled to meet the Enterprise at the speed of warp 9.

Not going to hate you all, you bring up an excellent point. You will not that only the slowl moving a smaller battle droids were able to penetrated the shield. Despite the droids being able to pass through, the tanks could not penetrate the barrier. This would seem to denote that the barrier was designed to stop only high energy penetrators. Anything fast moving or large would be stopped.

There is no evidence to support the conclusion that the tanks could not enter the energy shield. Rather Episod V suggest that they can. As the ATAT Walkers did penetrate the energy field protection the Rebel base.

In ROTJ the fighter that was following the A wing was blasted to dust in less than a twelve shots. Now go ask a AA gunner how hard it is to hit a fast aircraft at point blank range at a 90 degree angle.

The X wing was shot point blank, yes. However you are in error. The shot was not perpendicular or as you inappropriately express it, at a 90 degree angle. The shot came from behind the camera and struck the the X wing nose head on. (Not a hard shot to make)

The A wing was struct by a grazing shot from right which put the fighter in to spin.

Appropriately the Turbo Lasers struct the slowest moving craft and grazed the faster faster.

ISD do have FTL sensors, they only sense out to a few light years (mere fractions of a second at hyperspace speeds)

I have never read a book or seen a movie that suggest that Star Wars had faster than Light sensors. Speculation

However the Picard Maneuver works against ST vessels for precisly the reason I explained. ST stupidly abandoned the idea of gunnery crews.

That would be true if we also didn't know that the Enterprise knew exactly which Star Gazer would be the correct target. The tactic confused the Ferengi but not the Enterprise. The tractor beam, guided by the targeting scaners tracked and siezed the Stargazer instantly. Hense when you are once again wrong.

Proof? None.

Seven made the state that the Tri Cobalt device was 2000 cochranes. Once more you're not done your research and refuse to corrected.

Actually small problem while a ST ships is more maneuverable than her SW counterpart she is still a 200+ meter long vessel or a minimum of 10 times the length of a Y-wing and fifty times as tall and at least 20 times as wide. Your argument is aking to say that a person who has a hard time hitting a humming bird in flight is going to have the same difficulting hitting an Elphant that flies as the same speeds as a hummingbird.

Your argument lacks appreciation of starship tactical logistics. When a star ship evades it seeks distance from the agressor. Greater distance and Greater manuverability versus a sublight weapon will give a starship a 100 percent chance of Evasion at the appropriate distance. Once more your researach comparisons amounts to that highschool jock dropout.

[Enterprise-D]

Saquist, the Tricobalt device was 20 000 Teracochranes. While the force-power equation of subspace distortions isn't posted as of yet, it is a reasonable comparison that if a subspace distortion or Warp field of Factor 1 (i.e. 1 Cochrane) is directly ratioed against 1 Watt, the tricobalt torpedo would be directly ratioed to 20 000 Terawatt yield.

Clearly of course 1 Cochrane force must necessarily require more power than a single watt (since it is after all also a measure of FTL travel), so it is reasonable to assume that the torpedo configured by Tuvok was somewhere in the range of 20 000 Terawatts. Besides which, the goal was to totally annihiliate a station 10km across (the Caretaker's Array, which is 5 times the length of an ISD i should point out) - as ordered by Janeway so that the technology would be irretrievable; no small feat for a 332m ship.

The source: STVOY S6 E9, directly relating to the events of STVOY S1 E1 and E2

[Kittamaru]

here is an example from caretaker, already presented before but here again:

If 1 terracochrane = 1 terrawatte (stupid to assume such a low power, but we'll assume for Scott's sake) then a 20,000 TerraCochrane TriCobalt Torpedo is at LEAST 20,000 terrawatts.

If 1 cochrane = 1 watt, we'd already have Warp Travel today, so 1 cochrane is probably more like 5 megawatts or more so the theoretical yield of a tricobalt torpedo is rapidly approaching 2 nonillions (2x10^30) watts of power. That would, quite simply, disintegrate ANY and ALL star wars ships at the molecular level!

So, for arguments sake (and to stop Scott's head exploading with the realization he's boned) we'll say 1 cochrane = 1 watt and thus a tricobalt device is a mere 20,000 terrawatts.

[Kittamaru]

BTW- http://www.gomath.com/htdocs/lesson/...er_lesson1.htm

If you don't believe that a nonillion is a real number

BOOSH!

[Saquist]

Saquist, the Tricobalt device was 20 000 Teracochranes. While the force-power equation of subspace distortions isn't posted as of yet, it is a reasonable comparison that if a subspace distortion or Warp field of Factor 1 (i.e. 1 Cochrane) is directly ratioed against 1 Watt, the tricobalt torpedo would be directly ratioed to 20 000 Terawatt yield.

Clearly of course 1 Cochrane force must necessarily require more power than a single watt (since it is after all also a measure of FTL travel), so it is reasonable to assume that the torpedo configured by Tuvok was somewhere in the range of 20 000 Terawatts. Besides which, the goal was to totally annihiliate a station 10km across (the Caretaker's Array, which is 5 times the length of an ISD i should point out) - as ordered by Janeway so that the technology would be irretrievable; no small feat for a 332m ship.

The source: STVOY S6 E9, directly relating to the events of STVOY S1 E1 and E2

I stand corrected. Thank you.
However I must correct you...Voyager is 344 meters long.

All Voyager has to do is get it past the shields.
How about that Scott...In every way except super luminal travel...Trek surpasses Star Wars.

That's enough Firepower to take out a Super Star Destroyer depending on how strong the armor is. And if it is too strong, and that is unlikely...no armor has ever been resistence to sub-space weaponry.

[Kittamaru]

Well, even if the armor IS that strong

Detonate it beside the engines or inside the engines... hehe, that'd be a nice little backfire

[TW Scott]

Actually the Cocharane unit is a measure of spatial distortion and while yes the destructive potential of that device was enormous, it is obviously only used as a demolitions device. Also since it was NEVER used as a weapon against even primative ships or asteroids then there must be a logical reason.

My supposition would be that the device cuases a spatial distortion that even the least experienced crew or unsophisticated computer system can compenssate for. In complex objects like starships and starbases this can cuases a number of containment failures at the same time as scrambling circutits and crystalline masses. Against simple objects like asteroids it would be useless. Against stuctures that all safeguards have been disabled the device would be an efficent demolotion device.

[TW Scott]

Vasago: Torpedos in ST have (pared-down) warp engines. They are capable of sustaining their own warp field. The ship does not assist the torpedo to its target. This has been stated by characters in multiple episodes of various series, inclusive of Kirk, Data, LaForge, Dax (I remember these characters mentioning torpedoes and their own warp engines or warp fields, however I can't reference the exact episodes at the moment).

As a matter of fact they have Warp sustainer engines. Meaning if luanched at warp they don't immediately drop to sublight. However they cannot achieve Warp on their own if fired from stationary or sublight ship.

[TW Scott]

Actually, based on the conversations given by those that have used tricobalt devices, their approximate warhead yield WAS given en cannon.

Given it's rate of expansion to cover such a large area of space with the nanite "virus" material, it would have to have a certain explosive power. I forget where I saw the calculations run (I'll see if I can find them), but it came out to somewhere along the lines of 2184 terrawatts of power released in the blast.

Also, while subspace weaponry is outlawed, it exists... and I dare say (once more) that a Super Star Destroyer would not fare well against being dragged out of the fabric of space and time itself. Granted, they are normally attracted to warp cores, but there are ways of pulling them along

LaForge- We're pulling it across space like a Zipper.
Riker- Eject the Core
LaForge- I just did

Star Trek: Insurrection

Remote controlled ships like the delta flyer in size and power could be used to "tow" these rifts across space. Given the far superior tactical speed (combat velocity) of Trek ships over Wars ships, it would be mere moments before this rift was pulled across the midsection of the poor ISD, rending it clean in two and most likely detonating it's own power core.

Small problem, the rift was travelling faster than the ship and that was a one time effect. The reason that subspace weaponry is outlawed is becuase it is completely unpredicatable. You could fire it a billion times and get a billion different effects.

[Kittamaru]

Actually, there was extensive testing done despite it being outlawed- it was found highly attracted to warp signatures as a basic thing it always did. It was unpredictable because it wouldn't always go for the largest warp signature.

[Kittamaru]

Actually the Cocharane unit is a measure of spatial distortion and while yes the destructive potential of that device was enormous, it is obviously only used as a demolitions device. Also since it was NEVER used as a weapon against even primative ships or asteroids then there must be a logical reason.

My supposition would be that the device cuases a spatial distortion that even the least experienced crew or unsophisticated computer system can compenssate for. In complex objects like starships and starbases this can cuases a number of caintain ment failures at the same time as scrambling circutits and crystalline masses. Against simple objects like asteroids it would be useless. Against stuctures that all safeguards have been disabled the device would be an efficent demolotion device.

If it created a spatial distortion, it would, most likely, rend "simple asteroids" apart... given what it did to the caretaker array (it, quite literally, raped it five ways to sunday) I would supposition that it's explosive power is immense as well as it's spatial distortion abilities.

That and those weapons were rather standard compliment on Voyager (being far more advanced than the Galaxy) and I reckon the ONLY reason the Ent-E didn't use them against the Scimitar was because she was on a peaceful mission and thus didn't have a full weapons loadout (Rikers wedding)

[TW Scott]

Actually, there was extensive testing done despite it being outlawed- it was found highly attracted to warp signatures as a basic thing it always did. It was unpredictable because it wouldn't always go for the largest warp signature.

You realize you just pulled that response out of your ass. Much like most of your information.

[TW Scott]

If it created a spatial distortion, it would, most likely, rend "simple asteroids" apart... given what it did to the caretaker array (it, quite literally, raped it five ways to sunday) I would supposition that it's explosive power is immense as well as it's spatial distortion abilities.

Then why was said device not used in combat with Borg vessels or in any of the cases where they were dealing with an asteroid? You can't claim that the writers wanted them to use different tactics.

That and those weapons were rather standard compliment on Voyager (being far more advanced than the Galaxy) and I reckon the ONLY reason the Ent-E didn't use them against the Scimitar was because she was on a peaceful mission and thus didn't have a full weapons loadout (Rikers wedding)

Only a moron sends a warship into a sovereign goverments territory unarmed, especially when said government was known for treachery.

[Saquist]

Actually the Cocharane unit is a measure of spatial distortion

That is also incorrect. The Next Generation Manuel as well as he DS9 Manuel use the measurement "chochranes' as a measure meant of Force.

As Precedent Janeway says in the first episdoe Caretaker that the warp core reaction was in 'milicochranes'. As a result the DS9 tech manuel states that the warp cores of Federation ships Generate an average of 1500 cochranes.

Also since it was NEVER used as a weapon against even primative ships or asteroids then there must be a logical reason.

As stated before in the Star Trek Voyager Episdoe: Voyager Conspiracy. the Tri-cobalt device is a subspace weapon banned by treaty in the Alpha Quadrant.

[Saquist]

As a matter of fact they have Warp sustainer engines. Meaning if luanched at warp they don't immediately drop to sublight. However they cannot achieve Warp on their own if fired from stationary or sublight ship.

Speculation- That has never been stated in canon not to mention...anywhere else.

[Fettman]

Thats true even when you are on a mission of peace you should always be well armed.

[TW Scott]

That is also incorrect. The Next Generation Manuel as well as he DS9 Manuel use the measurement "chochranes' as a measure meant of Force.

TNG Manual and DS9 Manual are not canon.

As Precedent Janeway says in the first episdoe Caretaker that the warp core reaction was in 'milicochranes'. As a result the DS9 tech manuel states that the warp cores of Federation ships Generate an average of 1500 cochranes.

You do realize that Spatial Distortion is EXACTLY how ST does FTL correct.

As stated before in the Star Trek Voyager Episdoe: Voyager Conspiracy. the Tri-cobalt device is a subspace weapon banned by treaty in the Alpha Quadrant.

So the vessel was carrying an Illegal weapon as part of it's mission to enforce the law? What are you smoking?

[Saquist]

Small problem, the rift was travelling faster than the ship and that was a one time effect. The reason that subspace weaponry is outlawed is becuase it is completely unpredicatable. You could fire it a billion times and get a billion different effects.

Also Speculation: Not to mention Incorrect. The Tri-cobalt device created a subspace tear aswell from which the tetryon core was pulled through. Apparently it was a very predictable result.

Hence not surprising, you're wrong again. Additional: The sona were not using Tri Cobalt devices.