Star Wars vs Star Trek

**~~Roman~~** · 02-15-05, 11:23 PM

If that paradox actually existed in Star Trek, there would not be any time travel episodes.

I agree with this much. However, for the sake of this hypothetical battle, it would do better to leave time travel out and stick to one timeline. If Trekkers did indeed go back in time, the universe would become a multiverse, and everything and anything would happen. So Dune, Star Trek and Spaceballs would win simultaneously and infinitely forever and never.

We've excluded the Q simply because there would be no contest against them.

As for Farscape, I was just joking that you could accidentally stumble into an alternate reality that contained the hitherto undefended Farscape universe.

**Grummsh** · 02-16-05, 05:32 AM

Ok, no time travel.

Personally though, I don't think the Q would interfere in any case. Humanity exists in all of these universes, and I think as long as humanity in the end survives, the Q could care less which civilization dominates.

**OpteronGuy** · 02-16-05, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by Grummsh

Ok, no time travel.

Personally though, I don't think the Q would interfere in any case. Humanity exists in all of these universes, and I think as long as humanity in the end survives, the Q could care less which civilization dominates.

I can see this. I can imagine that Q would mess with all the different universes while the war was going on. However I wonder if Paul or LetoII could see what the Q were going to do. In the end of Chapterhouse Duncan looks up through a "net" supposedly at the two people looking back down at him. Hard to describe scene, but it's almost as if he can see the people watching him. hrmm...

**~~Roman~~** · 02-16-05, 10:53 PM

Alternate universes are a good thing to bring up. Star Trek could potentially exploit resources in alternate realities that those of Dune and Star Wars would be oblivious to.

**Kron** · 02-17-05, 12:46 AM

Hello! Is anybody listening to me!!! What about tech theft?

**~~Roman~~** · 02-17-05, 01:01 AM

Tech theft is too complicated. You would be like, "Well x has y!" and I'd be all "Yeah, so, z will just steal y! So there!"

However, perhaps some universes would be better at stealing techs than others.

Also, learning each universes strengths/weaknesses would be very important. Imagine when an Enterprise class ship runs into an Imperial battleship. Boom. No Enterprise left.

Or in the first big battle between the Empire and the Federation. Neither side would know the cabilities of the other (though I bet the Trekkers have better reconnaissance that those in Star Wars) and in the ensuing fire fight the Feds would lose out huge.

I'm also of the opinion that a Borg Cube could not hold up to a barage from Imperial weapons, though perhaps they could adapt to lightsabers (unless a lightsaber is plasma, and then they'd be highly vulnerable).

[edit]
I take that back about this being too hard. We could evaluate who is the most likely to steal techs, which I believe would be Star Trek, just cause they're clever fucks. Though I know very little about Star Trek, it seems to me that they do it the most.
There's not much evidence of tech theft in Dune (of what I can remember), but they certianly have the potential. They have fantastic diplomats and espionage agents, and I bet Trekkers have never seen Face Dancers.
But then, is their room for diplomacy in this?

**Grummsh** · 02-17-05, 02:01 AM

You guys might find this link amusing.

http://www.spacebattles.com/movies.php

Animated battles between Star Trek, Star Wars, and Babylon 5. Not particularly deep, but entertaining anyways.

**OpteronGuy** · 02-17-05, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by Roman

Tech theft is too complicated. You would be like, "Well x has y!" and I'd be all "Yeah, so, z will just steal y! So there!"

However, perhaps some universes would be better at stealing techs than others.

Also, learning each universes strengths/weaknesses would be very important. Imagine when an Enterprise class ship runs into an Imperial battleship. Boom. No Enterprise left.

Or in the first big battle between the Empire and the Federation. Neither side would know the cabilities of the other (though I bet the Trekkers have better reconnaissance that those in Star Wars) and in the ensuing fire fight the Feds would lose out huge.

I'm also of the opinion that a Borg Cube could not hold up to a barage from Imperial weapons, though perhaps they could adapt to lightsabers (unless a lightsaber is plasma, and then they'd be highly vulnerable).

[edit]
I take that back about this being too hard. We could evaluate who is the most likely to steal techs, which I believe would be Star Trek, just cause they're clever fucks. Though I know very little about Star Trek, it seems to me that they do it the most.
There's not much evidence of tech theft in Dune (of what I can remember), but they certianly have the potential. They have fantastic diplomats and espionage agents, and I bet Trekkers have never seen Face Dancers.
But then, is their room for diplomacy in this?

Picard and Luke turning out to be face dancers would be be some great diplomacy, right?!?!

**Kron** · 02-19-05, 09:31 AM

Dune has the best tech-stealing capabilities in my view. Face Dancers, Thought probes, Truthsayers, Honoured Matres (I say honoured Matres, because Matre slaves will blab anything for a few more fucks.) and the political experience (They would play Trek and Wars like puppets.).

**Dru DP** · 02-20-05, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Roman

I agree with this much. However, for the sake of this hypothetical battle, it would do better to leave time travel out and stick to one timeline. If Trekkers did indeed go back in time, the universe would become a multiverse, and everything and anything would happen. So Dune, Star Trek and Spaceballs would win simultaneously and infinitely forever and never.

Although I don't think we should include time travelling abilities, I can't say I agree with your statement. If the universe became a multiverse because of continuous time travelling, certain things would still be constant. It would still be impossible to have 3 winners in a 1 winner contest, and the phrase "forever and never" still wouldn't make any sense.

I say there can't be 3 winners because by definition, a 1 winner contest only recognizes one winner. Any other winners are winners in different contests. There can be no simultaneous winners of the same contest because the theory of relativity states there is no "god's-eye" view of time and thus each multiverse would be separate, which makes each contest its own contest, with its own winner.

The phrase "forever and never" still wouldn't make sense because it is a logical contradiction, and no matter what you do to the timeline, you still wont be able to make logical contradictions make sense. It is a logical contradiction because something can't have the attribute of forever and never at any given point in time, by definition they exclude each other. Again because of relativity, the same point in time can never be repeated by the time traveller, because the time traveller is always going foward in relative time no matter what year he is in. So something can't have the attribute of forever and never at any given point in time, because that given point of time can never be repeated again.

**OpteronGuy** · 02-21-05, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by Dru DP

Although I don't think we should include time travelling abilities, I can't say I agree with your statement. If the universe became a multiverse because of continuous time travelling, certain things would still be constant. It would still be impossible to have 3 winners in a 1 winner contest, and the phrase "forever and never" still wouldn't make any sense.

I say there can't be 3 winners because by definition, a 1 winner contest only recognizes one winner. Any other winners are winners in different contests. There can be no simultaneous winners of the same contest because the theory of relativity states there is no "god's-eye" view of time and thus each multiverse would be separate, which makes each contest its own contest, with its own winner.

The phrase "forever and never" still wouldn't make sense because it is a logical contradiction, and no matter what you do to the timeline, you still wont be able to make logical contradictions make sense. It is a logical contradiction because something can't have the attribute of forever and never at any given point in time, by definition they exclude each other. Again because of relativity, the same point in time can never be repeated by the time traveller, because the time traveller is always going foward in relative time no matter what year he is in. So something can't have the attribute of forever and never at any given point in time, because that given point of time can never be repeated again.

Dru DP... a man of physics!

Sorry this is just a random useless post in this thread since I have to wait another 7 days to get the net hooked up in my new place. UGH!

**~~Roman~~** · 02-21-05, 10:40 PM

I disagree Dru. Once the universe gets split up, all things are at once happening (or not happening).

In one timeline, Star Trek would win, in another Star Wars would win, and another neither would win.

Probablisticly.

**OpteronGuy** · 02-28-05, 09:59 PM

Roman - Da Man.

Useless post to keep this thread alive.

**~~Roman~~** · 02-28-05, 10:10 PM

Thanks

I, too, am little disappointed that this thread has faded.

Say Opteron, have you seen the new Dune movies? I think they're up to Children of Dune, but I haven't seen it. I've only seen the two movie Dune remake, which was really true to the book.

**OpteronGuy** · 02-28-05, 10:26 PM

I have seen all but Children of Dune. I hear it's good. I believe a friend of mine has it and should probably get it from him. If I do I'll tell ya how it is.

**~~Roman~~** · 03-01-05, 12:36 AM

How was Dune Messiah?

**Kron** · 03-01-05, 09:37 AM

I sadly haven't read Dune Messiah, so I ditto Roman's question except more detail!!!

**OpteronGuy** · 03-01-05, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Roman

How was Dune Messiah?

What?!?! You didn't read it?!! Nor you Kron! I'm almost ashamed!!!

Ok not really.. Because I had to force myself through it. It's ok, it takes place about 10 years after Dune. During this time Paul sees the Golden Path and how it would have to be maintained. This is so scary to him that after he goes blind he goes into the desert to die like any honorable Fremen. It was a quick read when I actually sat down and read it, but it is a book that I don't really look forward to reading again.

**Kron** · 03-02-05, 02:58 AM

sorry, OpteronGuy, but I can't find it in the stores. I also can't find God Emperor of Dune.

**OpteronGuy** · 03-02-05, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by Kron

sorry, OpteronGuy, but I can't find it in the stores. I also can't find God Emperor of Dune.

So you haven't read God Emperor either?!?! Oh lord. I am almost done reading it for the 3rd time.. Do I need to mail it to you so that you can read it?