Star Wars vs Star Trek

[FoolFromHell]

Switch sides:
Andromeda can take on ST, SW, and anything else at the SAME TIME.
Each Glorious Heritage class ship has 40 NOVA BOMBS.
EACH cant make a sun go SUPERNOVA.
Then, the World Ship can take on 40 Nova Bombs and SURVIVE.
Nietzscheans are stronger than Wookies or Gammoreans or Nausicaans, and MUCH smarter.
Plus, they are damned cool! Charlemagne Bolivar is the coolest person ever!
Then Slipstream travel can go GALAXIES in MINUTES.
The Pyrian torchships can dominate anything anyone throws at them!
The Commonwealth alone spans 3 GALAXIES...
The best thing about Nova Bombs is that they can be tuned to affect a smaller target. Destroy the Death Star only by inverting its gravity upon itself!

[Fettman]

Khorne, Nergle, Slaanesh, Tzeentch there its all over now go away Andromeda boy

[Saquist]

I don't think any gives Andromeda any serious consideration...it was okay...but it was completely outlandish. It may be true that it was more powerfull...but it almost beyond comprehension....almost beyond...probable....It was petty for such a large scale.

[Kittamaru]

Andromeda gets pwned by black holes, thus subspace weapons would tear them a new one

That and they give no plausible explanation for how they achieved faster than light travel.

[Kittamaru]

The final reason Trek would win:

Stargate and Star Trek have Earth in common, thus their technologies could be assumed to have a linear pattern. We now have StarGates on our side as well as the Asgard beam able to beam up entire buildings on a whim

GG

[TW Scott]

*sighs* Scott scott scott... back to insults instead of facts... I guess you ran out?

What do you meant "instead of..." I have consistantly provided both, unlike yourself who has provided nothing but the evidence that proves that my insults are actually correct observations of you.

It's not lazy to use harmonics- an electromagnetic shield MUST have a frequency. It's the entire BASIS of energy... unless of course Wars ships operate on DC Current? That'd be a lark... everything you have said about power would be utterly false if that was the case.

You DO know how alternative current works, right? You do? Good. Then you know shields would have to flicker based on that alone.

Actually it is lazy engineering to use shield harmonics. Instead of designing a field that protects from incoming attacks but let out outgoing energy and missles pass unmolested, ST engineers rely on a system that lowers blinks their shields on and off rapidly allowing fire to leave, and protecting the vessel from most damage.

And yes I do know the difference between AC and DC. We currently use AC for most home electricity as most devices do not need constant power, and that it does not degrade as much over powerlines. However we use DC converters for a myriad of devices that a power interruption is harmful to efficent operation. SW could easily have enough power to run a vessel on DC.

And Trek shields frequency has NOTHING to do with the ships own weapons fire. Nor does it have to do with shuttles leaving (if you've noticed, I have YET to see them drop shields to let a shuttlecraft LEAVE the ship). Things can pass OUT of the shield just fine- it's entering that the shield works.

You have NEVER seen them launch a shuttle during combat either. Star Trek V they explain they have to lower the shields in order for the shuttle to get to docking bay, Later Ro Laren guided a maquis shuttle through a "weak spot in navigational deflectors" that actually wasn't a week spot but a predetermined entry point that the command crew had been briefed to leave open. But Frequency determines that there are points when sheild protection is non existant, meaning that weapons can be fired and so forth, also explains how damage can get through before shields fail.

As I said- wars shields, the way you describe them, simply do not cover the weapon points of origin- an easy solution right there is to target said weapons and melt them via phaser burst. No more weapons, no more direct threat. Capture the ships and dissect them for information.

Small problem wikth that, if it was that easy, SW would do it, often enough to be seen. No, quite simply your thought is unsupportable by all the evidence. It is infinitely more likely that SW shields are a smart defense system.

It was not the main deflector going off- watch the damn scene again! The main deflector is on the RIGHT! The SHIPS LEFT NACELL exploaded BEFORE impact. That shows a core breach/explosion.

Watched the scene again Concluded you are smoking crack, nothing on the Jem H'dar vessel exploded before the Odessey's main defector exploded. Even then the the Jem H'dar vessel was largely intact through the ram. Finally if it was the Odyssey's warp core breach the destruction would start INSIDE the secondary hull, not in the nacelles.

Why can Trek shields handle the barrier? Shield Harmonics- Scotty said it himself when they encountered it. Wars ships don't have them, so YOU SHALL NOT PASS!

You're still bullshitting. The Federation was able to leave the solar system well before earth even had shields on their ships. Kahn's ship had no shields.

Maybe Gungan shields ARE different, but they are the only ones EVER shown blocking actual matter attacks. Is that why the Vong magma weapons are such a problem for Alliance ships?

Becuase they use Dovin Basals created singularities to suck up all the energy from the shields first numb nuts. And the magma weapons are in excess of 25,000 degrees.

The reason that cube got so close to Earth is:

1) TransWarp Conduits
2) It's a BORG CUBE. It's fucking HUGE and damn near indestructible.
3) It was a running fight since long before the Sol system.

The transwarp conduit ended before it got to romulan space

The borg are always extremely heavily damaged when facing a new attack form

Bull shit again. In neither case was it in a running fight.

And scott, once again, we don't loose ships in a magnetic pole. We merely switch to another sensor set or refine our search. We don't usually operate inside of the atmosphere (most of our ships aren't designed to do so as, you know, we're pretty peaceful m'kay?) so it's considered a special operation. Now you're flying tin cans might not be designed for extended encounters in space buuuut thats no reason to say the same for ours

You're ships certainly do, Riker did it in a wargame with only a bit of notice. Several other people have used the same trick to great effect.

Second Not being able to fly in atmosphere is a stupid weakness for a reserch and battle vessel. You virtually assure any heavy damaged ship is going to be lost, at great expense.

Third an ISD is designed to operate for 2 years carrying 38,000 crew and 12,000 soldier before resupply and refule. Voyager was being heavily rationed and was in desperate need of supplies almost all the time.

[TW Scott]

Short jump warping would result in the ISD experiencing the effect of the Picard Manuevre multiple times (once per warp jump). Yes it is a waste of energy, but it isn't dangerous for a Fed ship to do so. With multiple sensor ghosts to shoot at and the notoriously bad (canon) aim of the general Empire troops, and ISD probably would not survive a quantum or tricobalt torpedo assault of a ship executing short range warping for very long.

Okay, actually ISD aim is pretty damn good in the movies. They can hit a 16meter long object zig zagging around at .25 light, they can certainly hit a 200 meter + object doing the same. Also the Picard Maneuver works becuase ST stupidly puts all weapons under central computer. Try a Picard maneuver on an ISD and at best thrity of the laser will be fired at the wrong immage but followed 3 seconds later by all firing on the right one.


As for Quantum and Tr-Cobalt torpedoes, neither of them is anywere near 12.5 gigatons, especially since a photon torpedo is just 25 tons.

[Kittamaru]

Explain HOW you could make a one way EM Field. It is not physically, or metaphysically, possible.

as most devices do not need constant power

False, 95% of home devices use DC power that is converted from AC via a 5 stage rectification setup via a transformer, 4 diodes, a capacitor, and a resistor.

As for shuttle launches- there are many times "shuttles" are launched in such a situation. First Contact, while shields are up (combat ready and at red alert) the escape pods are launched. In TNG they show the shuttle leaving the shields while they are up by having the shields "shimmer" around the shuttle.

Just because Star Wars COULD do it doesn't mean they will... different writers, different strategies.

You sir are the one smoking... something. Whatever it is, i want some.

I will post screencaps if I feel like proving you wrong.

Almost ALL ships that have a warp field have navigational shields that go into space from the Federation.

What do Dovin Basals have to do with Magma Weapons beating the hell out of Wars ships? You are saying a Gravity field can affect Wars shields? Cool, another weapon to use against you No, they can tug on the ship and by stuttering the shields small fighters can avoid it. Shield harmonics inherently stutter, so no problem there

As for the rest of your argument- Scott, until you decide to either stop the psychoactive drugs you are on or simply get your facts straight, you are no longer to be considered an active part of this argument.

[Kittamaru]

Final counter to scott- he keeps trying to say how weak photon torpedos are. They are far in excess of what he says based on evidence shown on screen.

Take your pick guys- the ramblings of somebody who has constantly been UNABLE to provide accurate information OR a solid counter argument to screen-based proof, or the evidence taken directly from the show and movies.

[TW Scott]

Explain HOW you could make a one way EM Field. It is not physically, or metaphysically, possible.

Your proof is? Oh that's right you have no proof of it, you are just spouting off shit becuase it soundfs good. Also it does not matter if we think it impossible SW does it in canon.

False, 95% of home devices use DC power that is converted from AC via a 5 stage rectification setup via a transformer, 4 diodes, a capacitor, and a resistor.

Not even close, but go on keep thinking that.

As for shuttle launches- there are many times "shuttles" are launched in such a situation. First Contact, while shields are up (combat ready and at red alert) the escape pods are launched. In TNG they show the shuttle leaving the shields while they are up by having the shields "shimmer" around the shuttle.

That shimmer the the docking bay field used to hold air in. It is not a combat shield in any sense of the term.

Just because Star Wars COULD do it doesn't mean they will... different writers, different strategies.

Excuse me, but when your fighting a war to win you fight to win. Suspension of disbelief means you treat the world as real. Thus if it could be done it would, have a nice day.

You sir are the one smoking... something. Whatever it is, i want some.

Nope, sorry, have a severe allergy to tar in my lungs, gives me headaches. I'll provide urine, blood and hair folicle samples on demand.

I will post screencaps if I feel like proving you wrong.

Meaning, of course, that you haven't doctored them yet and are stalling, either that or I am right and you are too embarassed to admit it

Almost ALL ships that have a warp field have navigational shields that go into space from the Federation.

Notice the words almost all, meaning some don't and they aren't destroyed by some energy barrier.

What do Dovin Basals have to do with Magma Weapons beating the hell out of Wars ships? You are saying a Gravity field can affect Wars shields? Cool, another weapon to use against you No, they can tug on the ship and by stuttering the shields small fighters can avoid it. Shield harmonics inherently stutter, so no problem there

No, dipshit I was saying a brief blackhole like singularity can temporarily suck the energy out of the shield grid and then leave the ship facing millions of kilos of superheated magmalike projectiles. Nothing ST could produce could even begin to effect SW shields in that manner.

[Kittamaru]

Like i said, ignore him.

Suspension of disbelief for Wars but NOT for Trek.

Apparent inability to believe that Trek could replicate a quantum singularity

The inability to figure that those without shielding are stellar ships and thus do not pass the barrier

The inability to watch a scene and draw data from it

*sighs* It must be fun being him, but I prefer living in real life.

[TW Scott]

Final counter to scott- he keeps trying to say how weak photon torpedos are. They are far in excess of what he says based on evidence shown on screen.

What evidence? We have NEVER seen an explosion wholly cuased by a photon torpedo that has been more impressive than current conventional weaponry. Hell, Harry Kim states the yield of a Photon Torpedo as 25 ISOTONS. In SI, Iso means ten to the power of zero or one for the math challenged.

Take your pick guys- the ramblings of somebody who has constantly been UNABLE to provide accurate information OR a solid counter argument to screen-based proof, or the evidence taken directly from the show and movies.

Notice how he puts his as the first you pick from

[TW Scott]

Like i said, ignore him.

Well then ignore me if you wish, do not pressumed to command others.

Suspension of disbelief for Wars but NOT for Trek.

Suspension of Disbelief for both groups.

Apparent inability to believe that Trek could replicate a quantum singularity

Trek can duplicate a blackhole effect, but only in a highly controlled and contained environement. I am talking of a creature that can create one in any environment and even use it to block incoming attacks.

The inability to figure that those without shielding are stellar ships and thus do not pass the barrier

The explain the Sleeper ship is TNG and the Botany Bay in TOS.

The inability to watch a scene and draw data from it

Oh, i didn't notice you were speaking of yourself

*sighs* It must be fun being him....

Becuase I'm right and you know it.

[Kittamaru]

I am kind of curious- how would the Dovil Basins of a Vong ship fair against the rapid fire ability of, say, pulse phasers. If the slow stutter fire of an x-wing can beat them, the dozens of pulses a second should easily defeat them.

[FoolFromHell]

Andromeda gets pwned by black holes, thus subspace weapons would tear them a new one

That and they give no plausible explanation for how they achieved faster than light travel.

They ride the strings between points of matter. They state it in the show.

[TW Scott]

I am kind of curious- how would the Dovil Basins of a Vong ship fair against the rapid fire ability of, say, pulse phasers. If the slow stutter fire of an x-wing can beat them, the dozens of pulses a second should easily defeat them.

What matters is the amount of fire you put in. Phasers are far less powerful that even TIE cannons, let alone X-wing cannons.

[Kittamaru]

They did? I didn't see the entire series, but I saw most of the earlier episodes *shrugs*

Fool, what do you think about the Dovil basins? From what I've read it's that they have to be out manuvered because they take energy and time to open and close.

[Fettman]

Ok I have been watching the SW movies again and blaster bolts are not slow, go watch attack of the clones the battle of Geonosis (or how ever you spell that)

[Kittamaru]

I never said they were slow- they ARE slower than light though. As are Phasers.

Torpedos can be fired at warp speeds.

[Fettman]

Ok i just wanted to make that clear