02-09-05, 08:17 PM #441Originally Posted by Dru DP
There are also alot of races in star trek that show more technology, intelligence, and ability than in Star Wars. I honestly do not see how the Star Wars universe could defeat a relentless assault by the combined might of Species 8472, The Borg, The Dominion, and the Hirogen. Those are I think the four most powerful villian races in Star Trek and all four of them have their own strengths. Species 8472 being the most powerful and deadly. The Borg are relentless and adaptable to nearly anything, The Dominion is enormous in size and resources - it controls the entire gamma quadrant, where the Federation shares the alpha quadrant with a ton of other species, and the Hirogen are like Klingons x10. That's not even counting the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Breen, Kazon, and The Voth (who have ships that are miles long). All these species have entire fleets of ships. And then there are other species and beings who don't even need ships like the Cytherians, the Prophets, the Traveler, etc...
Fleet sizes were countless in the Dune series. Highliners were like huge cargo ships for every other ship in the universe. And who knows, they could have been fitted with weapons had the need arose.
Starfleet has section 31, which are a ruthless autonomous and non-sactioned group. They attempted genocide on the Founders and have no moral qualms whatsoever about doing anything that is necessary to protect the federation.
And why is everyone pitting Picard against people from other shows? He's like one of the worst fighters in Star Trek. Try Odo, DS9 Worf, Data, or even Sisko or someone. Picard was a diplomat and operational captain, not a fighter.
Lastly, if you want to start including everything throughout Dune, throw in the Machines. Who could defeat something that works in perfect harmony towards one goal?
02-09-05, 08:25 PM #442
Oh yeah Dru, good post. Been a while since someone threw up some facts to debate with
02-09-05, 11:10 PM #443
Still a death star before the end of the first book in dune and its goodbye to all the rest of it. No spice means no fremen, no navicators, no witches no nothing. The same cant be said for the other 2
As for star trek the jedi\clones and sith could easierly kick there ass
02-10-05, 05:54 AM #444
I believe that we (The guys who are debating for Dune) pointed out that the Tleilaxu managed to mass-produce artificial spice. Also everyone knows that no-one can lose against Star-Trek when it comes to melee combat. The question is who will win in an all-out melee between Star-Wars and Dune?
02-10-05, 10:46 AM #445Originally Posted by Asguard
02-10-05, 11:23 PM #446
I don't like to argue against my own cause Opteron, but the Amal project went down in flames near the end as it turned poisonous after heavy consumption.
02-10-05, 11:27 PM #447
so we are back to simple timing, if starwars hits at the right time then game over, if not they probably lose
02-11-05, 06:59 AM #448Originally Posted by Kron
Originally Posted by Asguard
Also, who is to say that the people of SW wouldn't benefit from spice? Some of them are human too.
Last edited by OpteronGuy; 02-11-05 at 07:06 AM.
02-12-05, 03:13 PM #449
i wanna see spock vs yoda. the only even mildly interesting characters in either universe.
02-13-05, 07:00 AM #450
Great idea Opteron! I never thought of suicide-foldspace-destruction. This tips the already tipped scales in the favor of Dune.
02-13-05, 10:59 AM #451Originally Posted by Kron
02-13-05, 11:00 AM #452Originally Posted by suzukisfrog
02-13-05, 06:16 PM #453
02-14-05, 01:56 AM #454
Not Spock! The real Vulcan master - full blood, expert in martial arts from numerous worlds, tactical/security by profession - is Tuvok. If he wanted, he could use Yoda as a toilet brush.
02-14-05, 02:36 AM #455
02-14-05, 09:06 AM #456
Hmmm, I don't think Star Trek is as disiplined as you guys are making them out to be. In fact I think they're rather well known for taking outrageous risks. This is more or less a typical Star Trek conversation (insert your typical episode wherever appropriate):
Commander: Well, we could probably push the engines a little more, but there's a good chance we'll blow ourselves up.
Captain: Well, push the engines!
So I don't think stating Star Trek's discipline as a valid reason for winning this debate is, well, valid.
Also, as far as the butterfly effect argument, I'm pretty certain Starfleet would take that chance if they were desperate enough. Any of you remember that episode in TNG when all these alternate Enterprise's were filling up the galaxy? Remember there was one ship that opened up on Worf's shuttle because in their universe the Borg had totally taken over and they didn't want to go back?
There's your Starfleet discipline...
02-14-05, 04:37 PM #457
Well, if Star Trek went back in time to prevent the Dune Universe from becoming powerful, the Dune universe would not become powerful, Star Trek would not go back in time and the Dune Universe would become powerful.
In this case you fracture reality into a multiverse, and accidently run into that guy from Farscape....
Let's leave time travel out.
I think the Star Wars universe is bigger than the Dune universe, since the Star Wars universe has found alien races while the Dunites have not. In terms of sheer numbers, Star Wars, I think, has outstripped everyone.
I can't remember the word, but a Russian came up with a measure of hypothetical civilizations in three classes. Type I could draw all the energy of a planet (or maybe star?) Type two could draw all the energy of a system, and type three all the energy of a galaxy.
Dune can draw the power of individual stars (there was a hint in Chapterhouse Dune that a star was harnessed for power to make a no-planet), Star Trek can draw the power of systems, and Star Wars the power of entire galaxies.
Last edited by Roman; 02-14-05 at 08:33 PM.
02-14-05, 08:23 PM #458
02-15-05, 04:44 AM #459Originally Posted by Grummsh
Any of you remember that episode in TNG when all these alternate Enterprise's were filling up the galaxy? Remember there was one ship that opened up on Worf's shuttle because in their universe the Borg had totally taken over and they didn't want to go back?
Wouldn't you be desperate and unhinged if the Borg had destroyed your whole civilisation?
02-15-05, 06:25 PM #460
Roman: If that paradox actually existed in Star Trek, there would not be any time travel episodes. Since time travel does exist for them insomuch as they can go back in time, fix something, and remember doing it when they return, I think it still remains a valid argument. As for the guy from Farscape, you got me there. I'm not familiar with the series, looks like I need to do some reading (or is it watching?)
I'm also very glad you mentioned alternate realities. Since Star Trek has knowledge of them, and Star Wars and Dune do not, they have an infinite number of allies they can recruit in order to wipe everything out.
Starthane: is having your civilization destroyed by Dune less motivation for unhinged desperation than having it destroyed by the Borg?
Last edited by Grummsh; 02-15-05 at 06:29 PM. Reason: a glaring typo
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