Star Wars vs Star Trek

[FoolFromHell]

Small problem the Star Forge and Darth Nihilius are mentioned in other literature. Thus they have a presence in canon. See, that is the fun of this. SW recognizes that a game must have some indiscrepencies and out right alterations from canon to be balanced and playable. I mean who wants to be playing a game where your X-Wing stands no chance against a Star Destroyer?

The Star Forge and Nihilis appear in Comics and Videogames only.
You said earlier that comics are NOT canon.
Too bad.

[TW Scott]

You cant use any species not in canon.
Meaning, who cares that the stuff is older?
it wont be in the battle since it isnt mentioned.

Well, you keept trying to slip in the non-canon, don't mind me if I point out that St has 6.7 billion years to evolve and improve beforethis war even thinks of beginning.....

[FoolFromHell]

You have no evidence the SW universe didnt cease to exist after the last canon book.
Its not a "they come over here" thing.
its a "all CANON characters and technologies in one universe fight the CANON characters and technologies in the other universe"
Its not a matter of timeframe.

[TW Scott]

You have no evidence the SW universe didnt cease to exist after the last canon book.

Yes, I do, ET the Extra Terrestial. If you notice the very same race was part of the Old Republic senate in Episode I: The Phantom Menace.


Actually even if that doesn;t qualify as proof you would have to prove that they were destroyed as the base assumption would be they go on.

Its not a "they come over here" thing.

Actually, amny of your arguments centered around how they would get around the ST galaxy. Besides it is not like ST could cross intergalatic distances in any sane amount of time.

its a "all CANON characters and technologies in one universe fight the CANON characters and technologies in the other universe"

It's canon galaxy against canon galaxy, part of the canon is the age of the galaxy itself. Suck it up.

[TW Scott]

The Star Forge and Nihilis appear in Comics and Videogames only.
You said earlier that comics are NOT canon.
Too bad.

Small problem the Star Forge and Nihilus appear in The Essential Chronology and also mention in other books. They may not make a direct appearance in said book, but they are mentioned.

The Essential Chronology is part of canon.

[TW Scott]

Holy crap, 214 pages dedicated to Star Wars vs. Star Trek?? I don't know whats worse, the fact there is that much to be written about, or that I am morbidly curious to actually read the whole f'in thing. Christ, I just figured with the Q, that pretty much settled it.

Actually since in the conflict both sides would have to still act basically like themselves the Q would do nothing.

What I mean by basically by themselves is that they do not run completely contrary to their character. If they get dfragged into the fight they fight to the best of their proven ability and line of thinking.

For Example the Borg will not send Thousands of Cubes against a target as it flies in the direct opposite direction of what we know of them. the Federation. Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Ferengi, Gorn, Tholians and so on, will not resort to WMD's like the Soren device and Genesis Device. That is counter to how each race acts. The same can be said of the So'Na. The Dominion might but there is no way they would trust a human to supply them with one.

To try to ignore how ST itself acts is going against canon.

As for GA, I have not gone against what any faction would do. If the NR thought it needed a Death Star, it has the scematics to do so.

[FoolFromHell]

The true power of Nihilis and the Star Forge arent mentioned in detail in Essential Chronology...
ET?
What the HELL?
Now you ARE pulling stuff from your ass.

If they really are there, in 3 billion years, wouldnt they have evolved into something different?
I mean, it IS 3 billion years! Plenty for Life to spring up by itself!
BS. I call BS on your arguments...
Stop basing it on assumptions.

[TW Scott]

The true power of Nihilis and the Star Forge arent mentioned in detail in Essential Chronology...

Acutally enough are explained that they are canon. Suck it up.

ET?
What the HELL?
Now you ARE pulling stuff from your ass.

Watch The Phantom Menace again. In the snate there is a platform with three of ET's race standing on it. I am not kidding in the slightest.

If they really are there, in 3 billion years, wouldnt they have evolved into something different?

Evolustion only comes about by environmental stresses. If the race had built habitats that fitted them perfectly they would not evolve as they have no need to.

I mean, it IS 3 billion years! Plenty for Life to spring up by itself!

So?

BS. I call BS on your arguments...

You can call whatever you want, but you better have proof.

Stop basing it on assumptions.

Hey, you are the one assuming, I'm just stating observation

[FoolFromHell]

I give up arguing with you.
I give up.
Why?
When you say that ET is part of the SW universe, you CLEARLY are pulling something from your ASS

[TW Scott]

I give up arguing with you.
I give up.
Why?
When you say that ET is part of the SW universe, you CLEARLY are pulling something from your ASS

I'm not, look at Senate scene in The Phantom Menace. They are on the right hand side from the Naboo senate seat.

[Lord Vasago]

I must agree with scott on this one. I am a true sW-fan and my hair on the back of my neck raised when I saw the movie the first time. I said to my girl that stuff like that just pulled SW down. What tha hell does ET's race do in there. I think it's a little homage on Lucas part towards his good friend Speelberg.

I you can't use all canon what is left? One enterprise in the future. Because you can have only one enterprise at the time. Ok two because you have that time travelling thing or wait 1 and a thrird because the enterprise e was nearly destroyed if i recall.

I don't know this soren dude. would like some info on him.

and no it's not because the emperor died there are no imperials left.

the second deathstar is more powerfull but had no need to destroy a planet just capital ships.

These bioships you keep referring to, can i have some more info on that to please.

I really like this thread; so much to lurn

[Lord Vasago]

I give up arguing with you.
I give up.

If you quit now Scott will win. You don't wanna let that happen do ya

no offence Scott

[TW Scott]

If you quit now Scott will win. You don't wanna let that happen do ya

no offence Scott

No offense taken, I just wish they would stick to canon and not get ridiculous.

Oh and I would like them to explain how they can bee so woefully ignorant of physics.

[Lord Vasago]

If they really are there, in 3 billion years, wouldnt they have evolved into something different?
I mean, it IS 3 billion years! Plenty for Life to spring up by itself!

.

I must agree with this one. If you see how humans evolved a a few THOUSAND years. In billons of years a species no matter what univers would normally evolved in something completly different. like Q maybe?

It would be normal that a species like Q allso could be found in SW but before i get foolfromhell in my neck it's not mentioned in SW so there aren't any.

BTW you don't really need to destroy a planet perse. a few moons will do the trick. Planet out of balance; less power same effect

[Kittamaru]

How can the death star be at two places at once? By YOUR OWN REASONING Temporal Warping won't work- otherwise the Gemini Effect is legitimate on Trek's side and we'll simply send millions of copies of ships after you.

And don't forget- as far as the Q are concerned, there are no shields

[Kittamaru]

Scott, you want 100% pure cannon? Current time frame?

Alright, as it stands:

Empire- Dead
new Republic- in shambles dealing with the Vong
Jedi- all but extinct (padawans and lots of wannabes but few knights and only one master (luke))
Sith- gone
Dark Jedi- kinda pointless as they will NEVER fight beside a jedi (the Vong series books showed that quite nicely)
Death Stars- gone never to be rebuilt (the Jedi will NEVER do WMDs)
Star Wars shields- small and ineffective against glancing blows (proven from the movies)
Star Wars weapons - photon based (by your own admittance) and thus carry no mass (again, as you said yourself). Thus not kinetic weapons
Small fighters may be able to out-manuver starships and their weapons
Capital ships weak against fighter based attacks

Star Trek- no soran device, no genesis device, etc
Super engineers - scotty (I don't believe he died in the series) and the Weasle, among others (who was the Barnerd guy that took over the holodeck one time?) Then there is Geordi and the whole Corbomite Reflector doohicky.
Faster tactical speeds than Wars
Transwarp (voth) via Voyager computer records
Voyager's future tech (ablative armor and the like)
Transporters can eventually beam thru wars shields (eventually they'd figure em out)
The Borg would consider Wars a threat and deal with it
The Q collective might not help, but Q himself would not let his friends be destroyed (for gods sake he has a crush on Janeway)
PDF (point defense phasers) could shoot down proton torps
Cap ships able to defend (but maybe not destroy) fighter based attacks
Fighters are uncommon but exist and are prevelent in planetary defenses
Stronger shields based on how they WORK, though they are shown to have weaknesses

Overall:

Trek- Weapons power, refire, and variety is greater
Trek- Shipbound defenses are stronger
Wars- planetary defenses are stronger
Wars- standard method of travel is faster
Trek- TransWarp is faster
Trek- tactical speed is better
Trek- fire while at speed
Wars- current number of ships
Trek- ship production
Trek- Tactical capabilities
Trek- cunning and guile (look at the Lyrans and the Gorn and Klingons... nearly no fear and for some races the cunning of a fox)
Wars - Force
Trek - Q and other superbeings

Ultimately I still believe Trek would win. It would be a bloodshed, but Trek would prevail.

[TW Scott]

How can the death star be at two places at once? By YOUR OWN REASONING Temporal Warping won't work- otherwise the Gemini Effect is legitimate on Trek's side and we'll simply send millions of copies of ships after you.

And don't forget- as far as the Q are concerned, there are no shields

Death Star and Death Star II. Hello anyone in there.

As for the Gemini effect, that's fine, but what are you going to do about billions of Suncrushers......

[TW Scott]

As for you second post Kittamaru if we do current timeline it is a bit different, assuming we take it out to just the end of Nemesis it has been 6.7 billion years since the Battle of Yavin. meaning SW has had 6.7 billion years to evolve and change.

BTW some of your assumptions are wrong


Death Stars would be rebuilt if needed, Jedi may not do WMD but the rest of the galaxy sure loves them

The Empire is alive and well and has several thousand worlds.

While the Galaxy is in ruins, it has been in worse shape. With Vong biotech and normal tech working together the Galaxy would be righted quite quickly.

And so on.


Besides none of us are trying to claim you can't have everything, you just can't expect it to act completely out of character.

Soren would do anything to get into the Nexus and NO ST ship could survive it. So he won't help

David would NEVER build a Genesis device to be used as a weapon, just who he is.

[Lord Vasago]

I read a few times in this thread the replicating technology. I wonder why they just don't make copy's of data then ? There's only one and no one can make another. they could use some extra data's on evrery ship i think.
What materials do they use to replicate ?

In fact ST still can use the genesis device. I don't like what i'm about to say but if you can timetravel they could go tho the planet just before the device detonated. replicate it and get the hell out of there. without changing the future.

If q has a crush on Janeway wait untill he sees Amidala
I'm fond of Janeway too but i would choise Amidala over her any time

[TW Scott]

I read a few times in this thread the replicating technology. I wonder why they just don't make copy's of data then ? There's only one and no one can make another. they could use some extra data's on evrery ship i think.
What materials do they use to replicate ?

That is a good question, he must have some materials that you cannot replicate.

In fact ST still can use the genesis device. I don't like what i'm about to say but if you can timetravel they could go tho the planet just before the device detonated. replicate it and get the hell out of there. without changing the future.

Not every thing can be replicated. Protomatter is one of those things. Besides like a Keep saying David is only one to get it to work, even his mother, who knew what he did can't get it to work.