Star Wars vs Star Trek

[FoolFromHell]

So what time frame in both universes are we talking about? Are we talking pre or post Roddenberry? what series? If you want to say all of the SSD are destroyed does that mean we are translating timelines straight over? if so wouldn't that mean the federation would be none existent?

You can list everything from DS9 on but it is sort of like SW guys listing everything from the SW expanded universe. After Rodenberry kicked it writers just made crap up.

And yes they made up fake names for horribly overpowered weapons. They where just trying to add life to a dieing franchise.


I might have missed the ground rules but is it empire vs. feds, rebel vs. fed, galactic alliance vs. feds.

And Star Trek guys why don’t you get outside sometime and let off some steam, you seem very agitated.

It is everything that is cannon, as in, the pre-federation ships can fight along with federation ships as long as it isnt the same ship.
For example. the Enterprise A-E + J since A-E and J are confirmed to exist.
Plus, everything in between E and J obviously existed since J exists...
Plus, for example. the Timeship Relativity plus Zefram Cochrane's Phoenix will be in the battle too, but the latter wont do much help...

The Trade Federation Control Ships will fight alongside ISDs and Acclamators.
In-Universe rivalries are put aside, and everybody helps everybody.
The Jedi and Sith work together. The Voth, Borg, and Dominion will work with the Federation, even though they dont exactly like each other. This includes Q and any other supernatural beings including the prohpets and TOS gods.

Naboo fighters can fight alongside with
We are so "agitated" due to TWScott's sense of logic.
it is extremely illogical that he will pursue a path like this and not admit to the truth.
Edit: page 209 was devoid of TWScott! Yahoo!

[FoolFromHell]

Chancellor Gowron

Yeah... Gowron sucked as a general...
Clone - Kahless is a better Klingon warrior/ leader...

[FoolFromHell]

@Kittamaru
Please dont insult anybody.
It was bad enough with TWScott. We arent here to strangle people to death...

[Challenger78]

Vote Worf as the new Klingon Leader. ....

[TW Scott]

Are games canon ?

Games are not canon, by either side of the coin. Paramount does not recognize them as canon and Lucas has specifically excluded them as canon. Anyone claiming they are canon is lying.

[TW Scott]

And you have not invented anything?
There is NO EVIDENCE THEY HAVE FTL sensors.
If the do, it would be in the book.
Multiple times in the movies, the Imperials "drop out of hyperspace too close" thus being detected. The sensors cant detect anything not in real space. In ST, they can detect anything in warp, transwarp, or quantum-slipstream...

If dropping out of hyperspace too close means you are detected thatwould mean they do have FTL sensors, Idiot. Becuase if you are completely undetectable in Hyperspace you could simply drop out above the planet and start the attack. Dropping out early and sneaking in at sublight possibly avoids some of the sensor arrays. Don't you see the logic here.

The Voth have transwarp engines without need for conduits.
You have stated that the Jedi+ Sith will work together... They HATE EACH OTHER MORE THAN THE VOTH's XENOPHOBIA.
If it is universe vs. universe, the Voth WOULD help.

Actually the Jedi and Sith only clash when their are not more important enemies around. They don't neccesary hate each other, just oppose each others methodology. However the Voth might help, species 8472 definately won't but the Vioth might. However you have no proof that the Voth have conduit less Transwarp, none at all. In fact from what we know of Transwarp it may very well rely on the conduits.

It was a continuous screen capture. No break, clearly indicating it was 5 seconds. The Voth just were xenophobic and didnt help Voyager. After the Universe vs. Universe, the xenophobia wont matter.

Really, seems to me i remeber a comercial break in there, but I could be wrong. However 90 light years in five second is impressive, but we would nee script proof on that one as that allows end to end traverse of our glaxay in 1.23 hours. Which does not match what the rest of the series claims about Transwarp, even Borg transwarp.

The ST ships obviously have a defense against this tactic. By your logic, if its obvious, its true...
The SW ships dont have a defense against this tactic.

Actually, you cannot take obviously like that. It was a major effort to extend the warp field around a relatively still object. Trying the same against a target firing at you would be suicidal at best....It's not a tactic becuase it is unfeasable and or ineffective.

R2 got power of the shields later on.
Anakin had no power over weapons

What, all those controls infront of them were for show? And there is no evidence to say R2 didn't have control of shields, after all that is his function.

So you admit im right on those counts.
Thank you. SW weapons are NOT over a few kilotons max now...
You admitted it. no going back.

No, I admit you are an Idiot and I refuse to waste my time answer points that have been adressed over and over again and proven. All you are doing is posting drivel that proves you have so little a concept of reality that you are a danger to yourselves and others.

[TW Scott]

From Wookiepedia:
"There were small gaps in the shields of the first Death Star; the Empire believed that this was harmless since only small ships could wiggle through the gaps."
Stop lying...

Wookiepedia, like wikipedia is to be taken with a grain of salt. I prefer the ANH novel I own, signed by Lucas mind you, that says they simply did not raise the shields as the incoming craft were not a threat.

The Ferengi stopped trading with the Dominion during the dominion wars...

But they still have the maps, don't they.

SW will need to scout out an ENTIRE GALAXY AGAIN.
Its nearly impossible to do it before being detected...

Detected by what? Civilizations that will start First Contact prooceeding and open diplomatic talks, and offer maps from Stellar cartography....Don't tell that isn't what the Federation would do.

[TW Scott]

The Soran Device, the Borg, the Bioships, all SMALLER than your superweapons, and can easily compare to its power.

First of all Soren Device and Bioships. And no either does not compare to SW surper weapons.

The Death Star II when completed would have been the ultimate Starbase. Planetary shields overlapping creating a impenetrable protective coccoon. Enough firepower to blow apart any planet in SW galaxy, no matter it's size, composition or defenses. Thousands of tubolaser batteries, missiles, millions of troops and crew. and hundreds of fighters.

The Suncrusher had a super dense armor that could take a strike from a Heavy Turbolaser and the craft itself could reach .999c. Not to mention the torpedoes that could cuase any type of star to go super nova.

and there were more, from the gigantic Yuuzhan Vong Worldships to the unassuming Staff of Darkness.

[TW Scott]

And about Sublight being faster than warp drive? Thats a joke. In the movie A New Hope it is stated that hyper drive was .5 faster than light speed. Lets see here, how much faster than light speed was warp factor 1 let alone warp 9 or trans warp.

Actually in A New Hope. Han says he can get to .5 past light speed. Meaning that his ship could travel twice as fact as a standard hyperdrive. We can see clearly in the movies that Hyperdrive is insanely fast. Hell, Lord Sidious made it from pretty much the core of the galaxy to the rim in a matter of hours. Two at most.

[TW Scott]

Look, this whole thing comes down to numbers. SW just has more.

More Ships
More Worlds
More Tech
More Speed
More Weapons
More Firepower
More People

It's that cut and dried.

I love Star Trek as much as I love Star Wars and truth be told I would prefer Star Trek to win, but wanting it so doesn't make it so. Star Wars is the clear winner in a war situation.

[Kittamaru]

Quality > Quantity little scott.

You're as bad as they come- you think it's clear cut and it's not.

Star Trek has a few very powerful weapons they don't use for the simple fact it's immoral- fighting someone like the empire, where their existance is at stake, they would say fuck the prime directive and lets go all out. They would Genesis Device your planets, Neutrino Burst your hyperdrives, beam your people into space, and generally do whatever it takes to survive. In the end, no matter what, Star Trek wins. hands down, cut and dried(tm).

You're numbers are bogus.


It is said, CANNON STAR WARS, that HyperDrive is at best what, 1.5x light speed? It is said CANNON STAR TREK that Warp 1 is a little better than Light Speed. Warp nine is a factor of 10*10^9 and then some better (depending on which era warp equation you use)

Thus it stands to reason the Wars galaxy is much smaller given these CANNON numbers.

The fact of the matter is, Scott, that you cannot back ANY of your claims with solid proof- you pull and sift information out that isn't there and try to disprove information that is. In the movies they specificly said the shields WERE up because the fish face said:

"IT'S A TRAP"

So yeah... shields were up... protected by shields from the moon... particle shields, which you claim can block solid objects. Apparently not.

*sighs* I'm tired of fighting with bogus factoids... to all the facts that you claim "There is no evidence to the contrary", please remember there is ALSO no evidence to SUPPORT your claim.

[pjdude1219]

dune will rule in the end fremen no can bet them in miltary conflict the spaceguild navigaters can see the future. the telaxu or however you spell have facedancers assassins and can make clones the ix can make some wicked machins

[FoolFromHell]

If dropping out of hyperspace too close means you are detected thatwould mean they do have FTL sensors, Idiot. Becuase if you are completely undetectable in Hyperspace you could simply drop out above the planet and start the attack. Dropping out early and sneaking in at sublight possibly avoids some of the sensor arrays. Don't you see the logic here.

Actually, the reasons for this are obvious. The sensors can detect people coming out of hyperspace. The Imperials can mask their real-space sensors if they drop out of hyperspace farther.

Actually the Jedi and Sith only clash when their are not more important enemies around. They don't neccesary hate each other, just oppose each others methodology. However the Voth might help, species 8472 definately won't but the Vioth might. However you have no proof that the Voth have conduit less Transwarp, none at all. In fact from what we know of Transwarp it may very well rely on the conduits.

"The Voth also have spatial displacement capabilities – a form of cloaking technology that moved their starships or even individuals out of phase. "
However, in the Voyager episode "Relativity," a Voth is seen manning the Navigation post on a 29th century Federation Timeship
From Memory Alpha.
"The Voth, rather than making a network of conduits, equip each ship with a transwarp engine. This special technology allows them to travel at transwarp without the need for a network."
No conduits.

Really, seems to me i remeber a comercial break in there, but I could be wrong. However 90 light years in five second is impressive, but we would nee script proof on that one as that allows end to end traverse of our glaxay in 1.23 hours. Which does not match what the rest of the series claims about Transwarp, even Borg transwarp.

The Voth have had 65 million years as a space-faring people. They certainly have the capability to develop that technology. Since they join the Federation by the 29th Century, it is understandable that the Future ships we seen in some time-travel episodes, which will certainly be part of the SW vs. ST fight, will join in with the superior technology.

Actually, you cannot take obviously like that. It was a major effort to extend the warp field around a relatively still object. Trying the same against a target firing at you would be suicidal at best....It's not a tactic becuase it is unfeasable and or ineffective.

Maybe, unless they used Voth spacial disruption technology to close in without the Imperials knowing what hit them...

What, all those controls infront of them were for show? And there is no evidence to say R2 didn't have control of shields, after all that is his function.

There is no evidence though, that states that R2 DID lower the shields or weapons.
There is NO proof that R2 raised shields or lowered weapon strength in the Naboo hangar bay. The novelization i have read doesnt mention any of this. Please back up with facts.

No, I admit you are an Idiot and I refuse to waste my time answer points that have been adressed over and over again and proven. All you are doing is posting drivel that proves you have so little a concept of reality that you are a danger to yourselves and others.

Just stop with the insults. You are proving yourself to be less and less mature and less and less credible by the word.
You have NO PROOF that SW weapons are as strong as the ICS books say since Episode 1, which is "higher canon" disproves it. Then, there are CANON NOVELS, which OUTWEIGH ICS, that says that the Fighters have 20 kilotons max.

[FoolFromHell]

But they still have the maps, don't they.

They would know the Empire would treat them like sh*t.
They will never trade with the Empire.

Detected by what? Civilizations that will start First Contact prooceeding and open diplomatic talks, and offer maps from Stellar cartography....Don't tell that isn't what the Federation would do.

Who says first contact will be with teh Federation?
There is a 90% chance it wont be, and knowing the Empire, they will open fire the second they see the Federation ships...

[FoolFromHell]

First of all Soren Device and Bioships. And no either does not compare to SW surper weapons.

The Death Star II when completed would have been the ultimate Starbase. Planetary shields overlapping creating a impenetrable protective coccoon. Enough firepower to blow apart any planet in SW galaxy, no matter it's size, composition or defenses. Thousands of tubolaser batteries, missiles, millions of troops and crew. and hundreds of fighters.

The Suncrusher had a super dense armor that could take a strike from a Heavy Turbolaser and the craft itself could reach .999c. Not to mention the torpedoes that could cuase any type of star to go super nova.

and there were more, from the gigantic Yuuzhan Vong Worldships to the unassuming Staff of Darkness.

I GOT YOU.
.999c means .999 the speed of LIGHT.
If any ship travels that close to the speed of LIGHT, it experiences relativism. It would take a few years inside it for a voyage, but hundreds of years would pass on the outside. The .999 speed of Light is extremely impractical. This shows exactly how UNSCIENTIFIC THE SW WRITERS ARE. They dont even know relativism...
Why are the Bioships so bad? They can EASILY destroy an entire solar system. They can open rifts PAST Death Star shields from their layer of fluidic space and they can bypass all shields. Thought about that? The only reason they didnt do it in ST is because they didnt need to.
You just state it doenst compare and give NO REASONS. Damn, I wish we had a neutral judge...

[FoolFromHell]

Look, this whole thing comes down to numbers. SW just has more.

More Ships

The Borg have THOUSANDS of cubes with 200k+ people on each...

More Worlds

The same amount of worlds.
Plus, ST has many many space stations plus, the Borg cubes are cities in space while they also occupy planets. Number of planets doesnt matter as much in ST. Then, think about this. The average federation soldier in ST lives a MUCH better life than any person in either the old/ new republic or the empire...

More Tech

HAHA. When was the last time you saw someone in SW with the technical profiency of ST? ST is more adaptable and much better with technology. the Variety of technology alone is staggering...

More Speed

Refer to my comments on the Voth. There is absolute proof that the trip was indeed about 5 seconds.

More Weapons

Maybe more, but definitely weaker. You need something the size of the Death star to destroy a planet while 8 relatively small bioships can cause novas. Plus, Species 8472 has thousands of bioships, easily replacable.

More Firepower

HAHA. Bioships have much more firepower and can easily bypass any shields available. Plus, since Voyager mended 8472- Federation relationships, they might even have a treaty later on to share technology.

More People

Oh yes, but most of them are NON COMBATANTS.
in the Klingon Empire and Borg Collective, almost 100% are ready-to-fight warriors. The Dominion has entire species dedicated to fighting. Last I checked, the Imperials never let any non-human into the Storm Trooper forces since they are extremely xenophobic. If they had let Wookies or a stronger race be their crack troops, they would be better, but they are too xenophobic. ST will use any species necessary, except Klingons will never use Ferengi.

Star Wars is the clear winner in a war situation.

Stop deluding yourself.
Seriously.

[FoolFromHell]

Star Trek has a few very powerful weapons they don't use for the simple fact it's immoral- fighting someone like the empire, where their existance is at stake, they would say fuck the prime directive and lets go all out. They would Genesis Device your planets, Neutrino Burst your hyperdrives, beam your people into space, and generally do whatever it takes to survive. In the end, no matter what, Star Trek wins. hands down, cut and dried(tm).

I believe the reason nobody uses these weapons you mention in the ST universe is taht they have experience against these weapons and know how to combat them. The SW technicians DONT know how to combat them.

[FoolFromHell]

It is said, CANNON STAR WARS, that HyperDrive is at best what, 1.5x light speed? It is said CANNON STAR TREK that Warp 1 is a little better than Light Speed. Warp nine is a factor of 10*10^9 and then some better (depending on which era warp equation you use)

Thus it stands to reason the Wars galaxy is much smaller given these CANNON numbers.

Exactly.
The movies DISPROVE your books.
Since movies are "higher canon", it is the right canon.
The SW galaxy is MUCH smaller than what you have stated.

[Kittamaru]

I think we can put this one to bed... finally...

Trek Wins. Wars put up a good fight, but in the end all that remains were the smoldering cadavers and charred ruins of Wars ships and pilots.

[Enterprise-D]

Yeah... Gowron sucked as a general...
Clone - Kahless is a better Klingon warrior/ leader...

Chancellor Gowron was fine until he got jealous of Martok's fame in the Dominion war. That's why I put him in TNG (a big help to Captain Picard and the Federation-Klingon alliance) rather than DS9 even though he was in both. If Martok and Gowron worked together, they'd make a fearsome team.