Star Wars vs Star Trek

[Saquist]

I think...don't quote me on it...

Warp is litteraly warping space. It makes a lot of sense to. I'll explain it one day. You create a bubble or...universe around your ship that has a lesser expansion rate than the universe outside...this drives you ship forward. It has a lot to do with moving faster than the speed of time.

Hyperspace is very different.

We've heard Leia and Hand on numerous occasion refer to "the Jump to lightspeed" and Ackbar has said "prepare to make the jump to hyperpace on my mark"

These phrases were used in the same movies "namely Empire Strikes Back.

I've concluded that Star Wars ships create conduits to their destination through a different, faster dimension called "hyperspace". They get to hyperspace by jumping to light speed.

Making the jump to light speed is dangerous because they can't react fast enough to manuver out of the way of debris an objects like asteroid. Therefore they calculate a trajectory through known stellar obsticales.

They can be pulled out of hyperspace becase gravitational forces have an effect on hyperspace..thus why they calculate a trajectory. If their flight path encounters a gravity well of a star...they'll "revert to real space" and decelerate straight into the star.

[Fettman]

Why not just send Boba after all the ST comanders he never fails bitchs!

[Sumoben]

Why not just send Boba after all the ST comanders he never fails bitchs!

Thats IF he can even get onto a ship in the first place, ST ships don't have hangar bays where you can slip in and land, the only thing they have similar to it is their shuttle bay, which has doors and shielding.

[Sumoben]

Small fighters and shuttles seem to be able to pierce through SW shields, so you could mass produce Delta Flyers, and arm them with antimatter charges and nano probe torpedoes, which could could start shutting down a ships systems if programed to do so...

[TW Scott]

Small fighters and shuttles seem to be able to pierce through SW shields, so you could mass produce Delta Flyers, and arm them with antimatter charges and nano probe torpedoes, which could could start shutting down a ships systems if programed to do so...

Small Fighters and Shuttles only peirced the Shields on one vessel, the Death Star. Which the designers had (in over confidence) given the Shields a 200-200 meter gap between ship and shield. No other ship has a cap large than a Meter, so this tactic would be relatively useless even if it wasn't for the relatively weak weapons ST caries.

[TW Scott]

Thats IF he can even get onto a ship in the first place, ST ships don't have hangar bays where you can slip in and land, the only thing they have similar to it is their shuttle bay, which has doors and shielding.

Actually, Hangars are not required, tghere are such things as breaching pods. Have a nice day. Oh nad by the time boarding parties will be starting the ST ship will be crippled and shot to hell.

[TW Scott]

Q has no gripe against the federation , just fascination,

He also has no reason to help one group of humansd against another

Also, The Enterprise is more than a Match for an ISD.

If by Enterprise you mean Enterprise-E and ISD you mean Imperial Scout Detachment you might be right, However taking a glorified playtoy like the Fed Soveriegn against a Battleship like a Imperial Star Destroyer, it's no contest the Fed Sovereign will be molten slag.

[TW Scott]

Not in space. A Huge ships needs only stronger engines and can move as fast as a fighter.
No friction or gravity in space.
The Defiant is huge compared to an X-Wing, but is just as maneuverable.

This would be true except for little rules like there is always gravity and always dust you bump into, plus the problems of inertia/

There are no flaws since SW ships cant change shield harmonics. It will only take the harmonic password and all SW ships are compromised. to all ST weapons.

What Harmonics? Oh wait you mean that thing used bby primative vessels that have not learned how to make a one way resistive shield? Oh how stone age.

The Enterprise D and E can maneuver very well. Much MUCH faster than any ISD. ST ships can also pull off the Picard maneuver etc. with higher maneuverability.

So. their firepower only matches them with a Z95 headhunter the primative predecessor to the X-wing.

Exactly. SW ships cant change direction in Hyperspace without quitting Hyperspace.
ST ships can easily navigate in Warp and can fight in Warp with Torpedos. (Phasers move at speed of light. Useless in warp outside warp bubble.)

All SW ships can change course in Hyperspace, but it is easier to drop out and plot a new one.

The cubes are connected through subspace all the time.
Voyager destroyed the main collective with a virus but there still are isolated Borg still alive. For the purposes of this talk, the Borg are still alive since the Empire was defeated Episode 6 and the only remaining units of the Empire are the Imperial Remnant. If SW keeps the Empire, ST keeps the Borg.

Even the Borg at full strength would hardly be a footnote, hell the Hutts could take care of them.

[FoolFromHell]

He also has no reason to help one group of humansd against another

Are you serious?
Q criticizes humans in ST for being violent!
I wonder how he will react to the oppressive empire...
Plus, he likes Janeway a lot and respects Picard...

If by Enterprise you mean Enterprise-E and ISD you mean Imperial Scout Detachment you might be right, However taking a glorified playtoy like the Fed Soveriegn against a Battleship like a Imperial Star Destroyer, it's no contest the Fed Sovereign will be molten slag.

Haha! The Enterprise or any fed ship can travel in warp around the ISD. The ISD weapons fire slower than light. they can NEVER hit them. Plus, do you even KNOW what the Picard maneuver is? ST ships can appear in hundreds of places at once with no way to find out which one...

This would be true except for little rules like there is always gravity and always dust you bump into, plus the problems of inertia/

What the hell does gravity and inertia have to do with the Defiant having better engines? Dust is deflected by shields and deflectors. Gravity is microgravity in space. Virtually non-existent and inertia is not needed with retro-boosters, which the defiant has.

What Harmonics? Oh wait you mean that thing used bby primative vessels that have not learned how to make a one way resistive shield? Oh how stone age.

What the hell is "primative"? Learn to spell...
Also, SW ships cant change their harmonics. They are stuck to one frequency. This has been decided already here. Dont argue a lost cause.

So. their firepower only matches them with a Z95 headhunter the primative predecessor to the X-wing.

What the hell? Borg can take out entire cities in ONE SHOT.
The Federation weaponry is just as good, if not better than Imperial weaponry. Plus, ST weaponry can be used at FTL. Last I checked, the turbolasers used by SW are SLOWER THAN LIGHT. They can NEVER hit a Federation ship flying circles around them at warp speed.

All SW ships can change course in Hyperspace, but it is easier to drop out and plot a new one.

And *where* in the movies do the ships change course in hyperspace? What about the fact that you cant communicate with outside sources from hyperspace? Once something is on its way to its destination, it needs to reach there to get new orders to turn back.

Even the Borg at full strength would hardly be a footnote, hell the Hutts could take care of them.

[/QUOTE]
Are you ***king serious? There are MILLIONS OF BORG CUBES. SW would never ever stand a chance against 2 or 3...
The Hutts cant even fight a Borg Sphere! All it takes is one borg to transport onto the Death Star to assimilate anybody...

[temur]

Just look at the poll.

[FoolFromHell]

Just look at the poll.

Shows people are deluded.
SW is "cooler" but ST is stronger...
Oh and temur, please back up most of your comments with facts. Your previous comments mke no sense whatsoever.
You mention Vader when we proved him obsolete some 50 pages ago, etc.

[Sumoben]

2 Words: Tholian Web,
Another 3 words, Species 8472 Bio-Ship.

[temur]

You think you proved him obsolete but what can you do if you actually meet him? Besides, how can I read all these pages?

[FoolFromHell]

You think you proved him obsolete but what can you do if you actually meet him? Besides, how can I read all these pages?

If one person met him?
Depends who.
Worf can go melee with Vader skill-wise.
The Borg can easily walk up to Vader and inject him with nano-probes.
A ship can beam him into the vacuum of space.
The light saber is ineffective against deflecting phasers on a continuous burst or a spread. The saber cant hit all the points at the same time.
If Vader boards the Enterprise, they will easily erect forcefields to contain him. notice ST ships have forcefield generators every 15 feet while SW doesnt? Just that one circular one in Epiosde 3. The Death Star doesnt, nothing does.

[TW Scott]

Are you serious?
Q criticizes humans in ST for being violent!
I wonder how he will react to the oppressive empire...
Plus, he likes Janeway a lot and respects Picard...

He criticizes them for barbarity, not violence. He criticizes them of using the simple solutions and not of thinking thing all the way through. However even when he had humanity of trial, it was a joke thing, a way for him to play with toys. The War would be too much fun to just watch. Besides he might just save Picard and Janeway and let the rest of them die, especially Worf and Sisko.

Haha! The Enterprise or any fed ship can travel in warp around the ISD. The ISD weapons fire slower than light. they can NEVER hit them. Plus, do you even KNOW what the Picard maneuver is? ST ships can appear in hundreds of places at once with no way to find out which one...

Yes, I know what the Picard maneuver is. Do you know what a BDZ is? While you are zipping around evading any fire and only offering popgun offense, a ISD is DESTROYING the world you were protecting. Oh wait, what capatain would buzz around while that is happening?

What the hell does gravity and inertia have to do with the Defiant having better engines? Dust is deflected by shields and deflectors. Gravity is microgravity in space. Virtually non-existent and inertia is not needed with retro-boosters, which the defiant has.

Oh ye of the science impaired. Inertia must be overcome to get an object moving, make it stop, or change direction. It's a basic law of physics. Besides Microgravity is still gravity. You may weigh only an ounce or two, but a million ton space craft is still several tons.

What the hell is "primative"? Learn to spell...
Also, SW ships cant change their harmonics. They are stuck to one frequency. This has been decided already here. Dont argue a lost cause.

They don't use ferequency. Their shields are either up or down, the weapons fire out through the shields. Not like in ST where the shields flicker and the weapons fire out much like a machine gun through the propellers of a WWI fighter.

What the hell? Borg can take out entire cities in ONE SHOT.
The Federation weaponry is just as good, if not better than Imperial weaponry. Plus, ST weaponry can be used at FTL. Last I checked, the turbolasers used by SW are SLOWER THAN LIGHT. They can NEVER hit a Federation ship flying circles around them at warp speed.

Wrong: Borg weaponry did not take out a city in First Contact. In fact Borg weaponry has not shown to be superior to any federation weaponry. Federation shields (400 gigawats max) can take several phaser and Photon torpedo strikes. Obviously Phasers and Photon Torpedoes are sub 400 gigawats.(for sake of argument lets assume they are 370 gigawats and shields can repulse multiple hits below their threshold and only gradually weaken) SW has a hand greande that is 4 kilotons (16,700 gigawats) or 41.75 times as powerful as a Enterprise D shields. Yes you read that right a hand grenade has almost 42 times as much power as it takes to drop a Galaxy Class Starships shields.

Now the Main guns of an ISD are 12.5 gigatons and given the advantage of Hyperdrive every battle will be over some stationary target that cannot zip around and must be defended. While you would have ships do ineffectual warp strafes, your starbases and planets are being annhilated.

And *where* in the movies do the ships change course in hyperspace? What about the fact that you cant communicate with outside sources from hyperspace? Once something is on its way to its destination, it needs to reach there to get new orders to turn back.

Actually in the Novels they have ships following another through hyperspace and even changing course. They also can use Hypertrancievers in hyperspace as well as Holonet. All canon as movies do not refute this.

Are you ***king serious? There are MILLIONS OF BORG CUBES. SW would never ever stand a chance against 2 or 3...
The Hutts cant even fight a Borg Sphere! All it takes is one borg to transport onto the Death Star to assimilate anybody...

I am dead serious. First of all the Huts have millions of transports each equivalent to a squadron of Fed (GCS) they also have capital ships to their name and a floating battlestation or two. They are a major player in SW politics, in fact the Trade Federation does not mess with them and you've see what they can marshal just to bloackade a simple planet.

Aslo you assume the Borg transporters will work any better than Fed ones. You have to penetrate the shields first, and survive it. You have to be still, or very near to still and you need no interference. Oh and I assure you the presence of nuetronium in SW armor, means transporters are not going to be very effective if there is even a slight bit of interference, like say particle Shields.

[TW Scott]

If one person met him?
Depends who.
Worf can go melee with Vader skill-wise.

If vader was figting without lighsaber and Worf was using his bat'leth, maybe. Vader with a lightsaber, forget it.

The Borg can easily walk up to Vader and inject him with nano-probes.

Like they never can seem to do to Worf, Picard, Riker, Geordi..... Sorry major characters just don't go down this way.

A ship can beam him into the vacuum of space.

Sorry his armor is impregnated with rare energy deflective materials, given the history of transporters would be a no go.

The light saber is ineffective against deflecting phasers on a continuous burst or a spread. The saber cant hit all the points at the same time.

No, but jedi and Sith are very good at absorbing energy. We know Han's blaster can blow apart what appears to be reinforced concrete, but vader just went *yawn*

If Vader boards the Enterprise, they will easily erect forcefields to contain him. notice ST ships have forcefield generators every 15 feet while SW doesnt? Just that one circular one in Epiosde 3. The Death Star doesnt, nothing does.

Death Star didn't use it becuase they wanted the a-holes to get away and lead them to the Rebel base, numbnuts

Besides if Vader boarded it would be after the ship is crippled and the Storm Trooper have secured it

[TW Scott]

2 Words: Tholian Web,
Another 3 words, Species 8472 Bio-Ship.

6 Words Slow weavers getting shot to hell.
21 words Mmmmm, I like fighting these ships, after you fry them you can feed the crew. Hey save me some engine meat.

[Sumoben]

6 Words Slow weavers getting shot to hell.
21 words Mmmmm, I like fighting these ships, after you fry them you can feed the crew. Hey save me some engine meat.

Lol, with a fleet of ships, they can Project the web, without weaving it, maybe you should look into it more.

[FoolFromHell]

He criticizes them for barbarity, not violence. He criticizes them of using the simple solutions and not of thinking thing all the way through. However even when he had humanity of trial, it was a joke thing, a way for him to play with toys. The War would be too much fun to just watch. Besides he might just save Picard and Janeway and let the rest of them die, especially Worf and Sisko.

Q does love to help Picard and Janeway. Last I checked, Janeway babysat Q's son. Q still owes her a favor and would not let his favorite species to die. Q even stated that humans will eventually grow into something stronger than the Q.

Yes, I know what the Picard maneuver is. Do you know what a BDZ is? While you are zipping around evading any fire and only offering popgun offense, a ISD is DESTROYING the world you were protecting. Oh wait, what capatain would buzz around while that is happening?

The EXECUTOR cant even PROTECT ITSELF FROM AN A-WING!
A single photon torpedo to the bridge would bring it down...
The ST ships have just as much, if not more, energy as SW ships. Your claims of over 10 gigatons/ blast are over exaggerated, and thus should not be considered canon.

Oh ye of the science impaired. Inertia must be overcome to get an object moving, make it stop, or change direction. It's a basic law of physics. Besides Microgravity is still gravity. You may weigh only an ounce or two, but a million ton space craft is still several tons.

The Defiant has thrusters on all parts of its body. Microgravity and inertia are null when the ENGINES ARE STRONGER.

They don't use ferequency. Their shields are either up or down, the weapons fire out through the shields. Not like in ST where the shields flicker and the weapons fire out much like a machine gun through the propellers of a WWI fighter.

SW shields cant defend against the Executor.
The Rebel fleet was pathetic compared to the Imperial fleet in epIV and in EPIII, none of the ships had shields except hanger-bay force fields. Anakin/ Obiwan could bypass then extremely easily.

Wrong: Borg weaponry did not take out a city in First Contact. In fact Borg weaponry has not shown to be superior to any federation weaponry. Federation shields (400 gigawats max) can take several phaser and Photon torpedo strikes. Obviously Phasers and Photon Torpedoes are sub 400 gigawats.(for sake of argument lets assume they are 370 gigawats and shields can repulse multiple hits below their threshold and only gradually weaken) SW has a hand greande that is 4 kilotons (16,700 gigawats) or 41.75 times as powerful as a Enterprise D shields. Yes you read that right a hand grenade has almost 42 times as much power as it takes to drop a Galaxy Class Starships shields.

The thermal detonator is not a focused burst of energy. Its a DETONATOR.
If it had 4 kilotons of energy, it would BLOW UP THE CITY BY ITSELF. Why the HELL would the imperials use a suicide weapon like that? Your source is NOT credible if it states that a simple thermal detonator is 4 kilotons.

Now the Main guns of an ISD are 12.5 gigatons and given the advantage of Hyperdrive every battle will be over some stationary target that cannot zip around and must be defended. While you would have ships do ineffectual warp strafes, your starbases and planets are being annhilated.

Your sources for the 12.5 gigatons are extremely wrong. The Leviathan bombing Taris in KOTOR do *not* show the destructive capabilities of even a single kiloton. They obliterate the top floors of a building per hit. Thats not much. With 12.5 Gigatons, five ISDs can depopulate a planet in a few days. Why a Death Star then? Why not have those ISDs destroy the entire world?

I am dead serious. First of all the Huts have millions of transports each equivalent to a squadron of Fed (GCS) they also have capital ships to their name and a floating battlestation or two. They are a major player in SW politics, in fact the Trade Federation does not mess with them and you've see what they can marshal just to bloackade a simple planet.

Maybe, but the Empire is more likely to invade ST.
The Borg can defeat all of SW single-handedly. The Hutts will have no interest whatsover in invading ST because the ST population is either uninterested in trade, (Humans and Klingons, or under the rule of an opressive dictatorship, (Romulans, Dominion) or under the immediate vicinity of the Borg (Delta Quadrant)
The Hutts wont enter this fight.

Aslo you assume the Borg transporters will work any better than Fed ones. You have to penetrate the shields first, and survive it. You have to be still, or very near to still and you need no interference. Oh and I assure you the presence of nuetronium in SW armor, means transporters are not going to be very effective if there is even a slight bit of interference, like say particle Shields.

What evidence is there that "neutronium" (you spelled it wrong, btw) will hinder transporters?
Again, a well shielded both sphere can penetrate the ISD shields by storming it by the hundreds, and transport from inside the shield. Your sources on ISD weapon fire are BOGUS. In SW: Battlefront, the bombs and lasers of the fighters can BARELY scratch the surface of the planet. And, it takes multiple hits to kill somebody. If you refute this evidence, you have to void ALL NOVELS AND VIDEO GAMES in BOTH UNIVERSES. in that case, ST wins over SW based solely on Movies and TV shows.

[FoolFromHell]

If vader was figting without lighsaber and Worf was using his bat'leth, maybe. Vader with a lightsaber, forget it.

Worf can hold Vader off for long enough to give away Vader's position to the Enterprise or Defiant and allow Vader to be beamed off.

Like they never can seem to do to Worf, Picard, Riker, Geordi..... Sorry major characters just don't go down this way.

Because of plot advancement?
If those plot rules were taken away, the borg can easily walk up to Vader and inject him with nano-probes.

Sorry his armor is impregnated with rare energy deflective materials, given the history of transporters would be a no go.

There is no evidence his armor has the rare energy deflective materials. Plus, there is no evidence that it deflects against transporters.

No, but jedi and Sith are very good at absorbing energy. We know Han's blaster can blow apart what appears to be reinforced concrete, but vader just went *yawn*

In EP V, Vader used the force to deflect the one blast. It cant deflect against a focused phaser. His armor was easily destroyed by Luke's lightsaber and a focused EMP would destroy his breathing machine...

Death Star didn't use it becuase they wanted the a-holes to get away and lead them to the Rebel base, numbnuts

SW doesnt HAVE IT. How many times in Kotor have people been wandering around the enemy ship and they dont use force fields?
And how many times in Battlefront II?

Besides if Vader boarded it would be after the ship is crippled and the Storm Trooper have secured it

The Storm Troopers cant DEFEND against the Borg.
Once Vader comes, the troopers would be dead and a hundred drones would be waiting.

If you dont make up crap like you do, Scott, ST wins.
I would make up utter crap like you, but we want the truth, not the junk and other unmentionables you spout from your mouth.
By your "if it doesnt exist in the movies, it certainly does exist and wasnt used" logic, it certainly wasnt explained in the movie of shield harmonics, but it does exist in the SW universe but wasnt mentioned.
And, theres no evidence that SW ships can defend against phasers but there is evidence that ST ships can defend against lasers.