View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #3541
    SCOTT knows this he's just being stubborn. Just like he can't accept the canon fact that the Enterprise phasers vaporized 20% of a Borg cubes metal alloy structure in seconds, trumping what ever fire power must be necessary to vaporize a 5 to 6 meter long asteroid....

    He doens't get it...For every response he brings up and every issue there is a Star Trek trump card.

    Death Star-Genesis Device
    Star Crusher-protomatter/trillithium warhead
    Star Destroyer-Sovereign
    lightsaber- multi targeting phasers

    It's just the plain truth...there is not but one issue scott has been able to contradict. It will thus we main just so...

    Intresting enough if a Star Destroyer can't take an asteroid hit in the Terawatt range then the shield compacity can not handle the fire power from it's own guns if Scott was right...we know that's not the case.....When the Falcon flew over the Avenger you can see the Star destroyer hiting it's self at least twice... There was no damage to the SD at all and they didn't even shake...It's conclussive. An SD total turbo laser power equals about 8 gigawatts for the entire array.

    And SD's shield seem to be around 3 times more powerful than a Galaxy class with breaks in it's deffece grid to allow objects to pass through. Torpedo would encounter a hit or miss ratio on striking.

    I figure we've yet to see the big guns fire for sure on an SD. They should be far more powerfull than the fighter defense. At 200 gigatons...if that's right...they'd be hard to aim at anything less than a blockade runner. or anything more manuverable which is just about every Federation starship.
    Last edited by Saquist; 04-10-07 at 10:42 AM.

  2. #3542
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grimlockprime View Post
    http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWweakhull.html

    Here are some good upclose collision shots from DS9 episodes and the SD's taking hits from asteroids as well. There is also some technical discussion about each collision.
    This is a very good analysis, and the analytic methods involved are very sound.

    I would love to have the ability to do this kind of data crunching myself so I could double-check the math, but it's safe to say

    BOOSH SCOTT!

  3. #3543
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    Quote Originally Posted by grimlockprime View Post
    http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWweakhull.html

    Here are some good upclose collision shots from DS9 episodes and the SD's taking hits from asteroids as well. There is also some technical discussion about each collision.
    Agreed, that very good site. Thank for showing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    This is a very good analysis, and the analytic methods involved are very sound.

    I would love to have the ability to do this kind of data crunching myself so I could double-check the math, but it's safe to say

    BOOSH SCOTT!
    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    SCOTT knows this he's just being stubborn. Just like he can't accept the canon fact that the Enterprise phasers vaporized 20% of a Borg cubes metal alloy structure in seconds, trumping what ever fire power must be necessary to vaporize a 5 to 6 meter long asteroid....

    He doens't get it...For every response he brings up and every issue there is a Star Trek trump card.

    Death Star-Genesis Device
    Star Crusher-protomatter/trillithium warhead
    Star Destroyer-Sovereign
    lightsaber- multi targeting phasers

    It's just the plain truth...there is not but one issue scott has been able to contradict. It will thus we main just so...

    Intresting enough if a Star Destroyer can't take an asteroid hit in the Terawatt range then the shield compacity can not handle the fire power from it's own guns if Scott was right...we know that's not the case.....When the Falcon flew over the Avenger you can see the Star destroyer hiting it's self at least twice... There was no damage to the SD at all and they didn't even shake...It's conclussive. An SD total turbo laser power equals about 8 gigawatts for the entire array.

    And SD's shield seem to be around 3 times more powerful than a Galaxy class with breaks in it's deffece grid to allow objects to pass through. Torpedo would encounter a hit or miss ratio on striking.

    I figure we've yet to see the big guns fire for sure on an SD. They should be far more powerfull than the fighter defense. At 200 gigatons...if that's right...they'd be hard to aim at anything less than a blockade runner. or anything more manuverable which is just about every Federation starship.
    I agree all the way.

  4. #3544
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    You do realize there is no kinetic energy what so ever in a laser blast? Photons have way to little mass to deal significant kinetic damage and that little energy is stripped away when they are coelesced into a single, adherent beam of light called a laser.
    Thank you Mr Science for once again showing what passes for education theses days. God. I can't believe how utterly stupide and uneducated that post is. Adherent beam? Don't you mean Coherent, as in densely packed enough to be considered a solid? Of course you did becuase that is the goal of a LASER. Second, no Kinetic energy? Determination of Kinetic Energy(ke) is Mass times the Square of the speed. Now even a nearly massless particle times the square of the speed of light is going to yeild some results. Lastly, no energy/mass is stripped away when a Laser effect is formed. Even thinking like that is moronic.

    Same with a phaser. It is more energy than light in comparison to a laser. Lasers bursts = mostly light. Light is harmless energy (for the most part) but lasers also carry a bit of UV, IR, Thermal, and a little directed energy. That is why cutting lasers are so effective.
    Man, you are a thundering moron. You do realize that UV and IR are parts of light, right? You do understand that a solid bolt of photons travelling at the speed of liught is going to have a hell of an effect as Photons collide with atoms? You do realize you are pulling shit literally out of you ass and claming it is prime rib?

    Besides in this argument it doesn't matter what you think reality is, but rather what the creators of the two universes have decreed is reality.

    Assuming a blaster can carry even 250,000 times the amount of energy of a laser beam, they would STILL have no significant kinetic impact behind it. Why shows insist on showing ships being buffeted by these kind of "impacts" is beyond me.
    Becuase maybe they realize that such massively powerful weapons might have that effect in a null gravity situtation. You know something to do with conservation of energy and laws of motion.

    On another note, please site references for the ship collisions you are talking about. I cannot recall, nor find, these collisions. I do not have the entire star trek TOS, TNG, Voy, DS9, etc series to run through and check, nor would I on a whim.
    Both are in DS9 and in the Dominion war, duh. Why am I arguing with a man who can't even narrow down a search by using a bit of common sense? You will see such impacts and tactics in DS9: "The Jem'Hadar", "Tears of the Prophets", "What You Leave Behind"

    I suggest you peruse at will.

    A final note - even is Star Trek weapons were somehow useless, they would simply bring out vehicles like the Prometheus or Voyager with her new ablative armor and metaphasic torpedoes. The transphasic shielding, which worked on a SHUTTLE and a Galaxy class, was able to withstand the heat, pressure, and radiation from being within the inner corona of a large Star. I doubt they would be worried about the thermal and kinetic energies of a blaster bolt.
    Okay first all Assuming Star trek wqeapon are worthless how are the Prometheous or Voyager going to be much better when they are only at best a one hundred percent upgrade. As for the Enterprise D surviving the corona of a a star, she was using almost every ounce of power she had just to do that. She had just barely enough energy to stay in -place, keep lifesupport marginal, run computers and fire a weak tractor beam. She was close to being destroyed as it was. She couldn't stay there long at all.

    Oh, by the way. The whole .22LR / 12 inch naval battery argument is pointless. The 12 inch gun has longer range and better damage, that is all. The .22LR can fire more often, manuver faster, and shoot far more accurately. Size doesn't always matter mate... it's how you use it. Surely your wife/girlfriend has let you know that much...
    FIrst off my girlfriend likes the fact that I have both size and know how to use it. Second the comparison is apt. If you are trying to destroy something like the USS Enterprise aircraft carrier which do you pick, the .22LR or the Twelve inch gun. Obviously the one that can do the job is preferable.

  5. #3545
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    This is a very good analysis, and the analytic methods involved are very sound.

    I would love to have the ability to do this kind of data crunching myself so I could double-check the math, but it's safe to say

    BOOSH SCOTT!
    You do have the ability to do that sort of analyis, don't seel yourself short. First what you do is skim the internet for pictures or get screenshots. Then you do the math for the apparant effect. Then when it disagrees with your proconcieved notion you throw it awya, post your stuff, and when people who aren't lying their asses off come around you stick your fingers in your ears and scream that you can't hear them. It's all the person at that site has done and it has been proven time and time again. I have every confidence that you are quite capable of doing the same exact thing Kittamaru. After all you've done it here.

  6. #3546
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    SCOTT knows this he's just being stubborn. Just like he can't accept the canon fact that the Enterprise phasers vaporized 20% of a Borg cubes metal alloy structure in seconds, trumping what ever fire power must be necessary to vaporize a 5 to 6 meter long asteroid....
    Well, I don't argue that several one second long bursts vaporized 20% of a Borg cube. Now given the 2.5km cube nature of said borg cube and then a 90% open air content of the Borg cube, (and I am being generous given the constuction we have seen. That gives us 15,625,000 cubic meters 20% of that is 312,500 cubic meters. Now some of that construction is obviously plastics and glass especially if you look at the borg resting spots. You will aso note that a some of it is human flesh and such. Now we will be conservative here and say only 10% non metalics. There is hower power generation device and plasma conduits and such that will help with melting. However I will simply null that out. 281,500 cubic meters of nickle iron heated from 35 celsius to melting.

    Okay 100 meter radius Asteroid is 4,188,790.20 cubic meters and these destructions are canon according to novelization and radio drama. So 4,188,790.20 of a mix of granite, iron, nickle, titanium, uranium, lead, tungsten, and carbon form -200 celsius in 1/15th of a second would trump your pitiful borg cube

    He doens't get it...For every response he brings up and every issue there is a Star Trek trump card.

    Death Star-Genesis Device
    Star Crusher-protomatter/trillithium warhead
    Star Destroyer-Sovereign
    lightsaber- multi targeting phasers

    It's just the plain truth...there is not but one issue scott has been able to contradict. It will thus we main just so...

    Funny how the trump card in two cases is a one of kind item that the creator alone knew how to make and is gone. In another case is a Soveriegn isn't even a match for a cut down Star Destroyer and the last, in a war is pointless anyway. Jedi might fight in the war but they will be suppoorted by infantry in armor.

    I figure we've yet to see the big guns fire for sure on an SD. They should be far more powerfull than the fighter defense. At 200 gigatons...if that's right...they'd be hard to aim at anything less than a blockade runner. or anything more manuverable which is just about every Federation starship.
    Star Fleet vessels manuerverable? The only vessels in Starfleet that can even claim that are Defiant class and Intrepid class and both of those still wallow like a pig in mud. The big guns of SD are usedf against other cpaital ships. Given how we have seen Star Trek fight only Definat class ships would fall under the agile catagory and since they are designed to be the fire power equivalent of a Galaxy class and Slave I a bounty hunter ship is more powerful than a Galaxy class starship, I doubt there will be a problem.


    Now when the rest of you get your crap together an present an actual argument come back an present it.
    Last edited by TW Scott; 04-11-07 at 12:07 AM.

  7. #3547
    Registered Senior Member
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    http://www.merzo.net/

    Here is an interesting site that I'm sure has been posted before, it gives the size charts of the ships in all universes in sci-fi and lets you move them around so you can compare sizes yourself. Lots of ships in great detail. I really like the Babylon 5, BSG, and Andromeda comparisons as well.
    I didn't think the Andromeda Accendant was bigger than a Star Destroyer, but sure enough it is. Anyway, just wanted to post a useful site I found.

  8. #3548
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Kinetic energy implies a mass. Photons have mass, but very little mass, and it is countered by anti-photons as it consistantly proven via photon interference. If you knew anything of quantum mechanics you would understand... but eh. Such things are lost on ones as you.

    I tried being reasonable and debating the facts, but you were content to spew insulting garbage. Fine, now you can have the same

    Bye bye, good day, whatever you choose to say.

  9. #3549
    Minister of Technology
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Kinetic energy implies a mass. Photons have mass, but very little mass, and it is countered by anti-photons as it consistantly proven via photon interference. If you knew anything of quantum mechanics you would understand... but eh. Such things are lost on ones as you.
    Oh lord, proving your stupidity yet again. I only mentioned Kinetic energy at all becuase that is what a ramming maneuver is, putz. I translated the effect of the output energy of a Heavy Turbolaser to that type of energy so you could get an image of how hopelessly outclassed Star Trek is. Of course my error was not to precede the exmaple with a detailed treknobabble introduction. Then again it did sort out the idiots (you) from the people who could think (almost everyone else)


    I tried being reasonable and debating the facts, but you were content to spew insulting garbage. Fine, now you can have the same
    It's only an insult if it is not true. Since you have priovided nothing but treknobabble and idiocy then me calling you on it is acceptable. Post something relevants and well thought out and the insults will stop. Think of it as motivation to actually present facts and not shit posing as facts.

    By the way I hope you have a good day and everything goes well.

  10. #3550
    Registered Senior Member
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    Is that all you can say insulting garbage? Is your life so worthless that all you can do is spew insulting garbage Scott? All you ever do Scott is insult people and you haven't even shown one proof that star wars is has powerfull has you say. For f sake terrawat in Sw reality could be megawat in St reality. Nothing you have said this last month proves squat.

    All you proved is your poor exscuse for a human. The falcon can only go .5 times speed of light and in "reality" it would take you 1000 year to get next star at that rate. So laws in both realitys is diffrent. In your reality we can go 100,000 time faster and are weapon are 100,000 times more powerfull. For f sake we can go ten times the speed of light not .5. Also, no star ship has had death below from somthing of the size of a fighter in star trek. That like danube crashing in to galaxy. I also proved your fleet is worthless. Definet has more fire power as 10 ISD, but since you dont listen, cuase your bumbling fool with no since of reality, why do i bother.

  11. #3551
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    *blinks* You completely ignored the fact that anti-protons, and indeed anti-energy in it's own right, exists... wow.

    I must say, I am impressed. If you can't solve a problem, you close your eyes and pretend it doesn't exist...

  12. #3552
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    Let it be known from this time forth Star trek wins. As said in star wars New hope, Lazer have no afect on any thing that is ben magnetically sealed, no matter what power level. Whether it be 10 megawats or 10 terrawats. All we would have to is magnetically seal are ablative armor and all of star war weapon become useless. Your concussion missile, your turbolaser tower, heavy turbolaser, proton torpedo, death star super lazer, all useless. All will not have in affect on a ship that has been magnetically sealed. Your doomed, all hope is lost. As said in a star wars book, ISD are far to large magnetically sealed their hull plating. Star trek ship aren't. Defeat is eminent ...


    Star trek wins

    and

    Star wars loses


    You lose

  13. #3553
    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Well, I don't argue that several one second long bursts vaporized 20% of a Borg cube. Now given the 2.5km cube nature of said borg cube and then a 90% open air content of the Borg cube, (and I am being generous given the constuction we have seen.
    No Scott that makes you stingy a bastard not generous. put your turbolaser where you mouth is an prove your 90%

    Borg ships are effiencently designed...the destroyed area reveal nowhere near 90% open air...please tell me where you got 90%


    Don't make me remind you of your "lying trend"

  14. #3554
    Fortunatly we don't need you to tell the truth in this matter. We know you're lying. When a damage estimate is given it never counts "empty space"

    "Yes captain, we damaged 20 % of the enemy vessel but 90% of the 20 percent was empty space so we really have our work cut out"

    Retarded, Scotty, you don't think before you post.

  15. #3555
    As you can see a phaser proves to be far more effective that a turbo laser. I doubt you'd take the time and effort to prove how much wattage it would take to vaporize various alloy metals would you Scotty...No you strike me as a hypocrite.

    You've managed to post nothing of revelancy.
    You post are full of speculations and fabrications
    You haven't proven more powerful in face of cannon

    Funny how the trump card in two cases is a one of kind item that the creator alone knew how to make and is gone. In another case is a Soveriegn isn't even a match for a cut down Star Destroyer and the last, in a war is pointless anyway. Jedi might fight in the war but they will be suppoorted by infantry in armor.
    Shear stupidity, Scotty, you excell at conjuring the most stupid conclusions. In the Federation information isn't lost forever. There was a data base and Dr. Carol Marcus is not dead.

    The Fact that proto matter warheads turned up later in Star Trek is proof of your rank ignorance of Trek and billergent faith to Star Wars...you've not held any truth in any of your post.

    Liars lie because they're wrong. That is of course why you're lying. That is of course why you continue to lie. Your thinking pattern is completely duplicitous.

  16. #3556
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    Dontai:

    Tell you what, you magnetically seal an armored box, stand in it, and I'll use a laser that is throwing out 5.2E19 Joules in just over .06 seconds and we'll see who is still talking afterwards.

    Just becuase handheld blasters are effected by a magnetic seal that way does not mean that Ship weapons will suffer the same weakness. It's like thinking chobham armor is going to bounce 140mm APDSDU ammunition the same way it bounces 9mm Parabellum rounds. Get it?

    Kittamaru:

    What problem of antiphotons? I translated the effect of a 5.2E19 Joules per .06 second laser blast to kinetic energy to compare it to the Dominion Kamikaze attack that is so effective against Star Trek vessels. I wasn't implying that the bolt is a kinetic weapon. Though the effect of that one shot on the back quarter of the Millenium Falcon does make a person wonder. Your whole point of anti-photons and almost massless photons was moot. You were adding information that is not needed. I was just trying to give a metal image.



    Dontai:
    You can say it in as big a letters as you want or even use a flashy font color. You are still living in denial. One day you will realize what an idiot you are being noe and cringe.

  17. #3557
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    That comparison is moot point though. It was a ship 1/10th the size and 1/6th the density (yes, a Galaxy is a big, EXPLORATION vessel, a dominion fighter is a small compact war machine) impacting a rather important part (the engineering section) of a starship, accompanied by an uncontrolled matter/antimatter reaction. Basicly, the same as a few thousand photon torpedos exploding at once. Also, the shields of the galaxy class were down due tot he polaron beam.

    Thus, I say, the whole argument is moot.

  18. #3558
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Dontai:

    Tell you what, you magnetically seal an armored box, stand in it, and I'll use a laser that is throwing out 5.2E19 Joules in just over .06 seconds and we'll see who is still talking afterwards.
    Is that your final answer?

    Survey say:

    Your wrong, it cannon!!!!

    O, so sorry scott, thanks for playing, but im afraid you gave a incorrect answer, the correct answer is: star trek wins. Thanks for playing any way.

  19. #3559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    That comparison is moot point though. It was a ship 1/10th the size and 1/6th the density (yes, a Galaxy is a big, EXPLORATION vessel, a dominion fighter is a small compact war machine) impacting a rather important part (the engineering section) of a starship, accompanied by an uncontrolled matter/antimatter reaction. Basicly, the same as a few thousand photon torpedos exploding at once. Also, the shields of the galaxy class were down due tot he polaron beam.

    Thus, I say, the whole argument is moot.

    Phased Polaron beams do not bring down Federation Shields, they simply penetrate them. So the beams hitting the hull are not evidence taht the shields were down.

    My point was that the ship blew through the engineering section and didn't even slow down at all. The ships core did not even breach until remnants of that Dominion fighter came out the dorsal side of the engineering section. Now I showed how much energy such an impact would create and even allowing for additional trhust after impact to maintain speed for a fraction of a second it is stil thousands of times less powerful than a Heavy Turblaser found in great numbers on almost every capital ship in Star Wars.

    Thus your end of the argument is moot. It is Star Trek canon about those ships destruction, simple physics gives us the kinetic energy involved and then Star Wars canon gives us the power of the Heavy Turbo lasers. It's pretty open and shut. Star Wars Heavy turbolasers are more powerful than thousands or ramming Dominion Fighters.


    BTW Basic Photon Torpedo facts You will not find a Photn Torpedo Explosion more impressive than 20 kilotons and even then it was against a ground target with a warp core. Even according to Star Trek canon their theorhetical yield could only be 64 megaton, Far below the 12.5 gigatons of the standard Star Wars Heavy Turbolaser.
    Last edited by TW Scott; 04-12-07 at 09:55 PM.

  20. #3560
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dontai View Post
    Is that your final answer?

    Survey say:

    Your wrong, it cannon!!!!

    O, so sorry scott, thanks for playing, but im afraid you gave a incorrect answer, the correct answer is: star trek wins. Thanks for playing any way.
    Did you survey only yourself and the voices in your head?

    Okay here is one, it's a logic problem. If, as you say, magnetically sealing something makes it immune to lasers and we have proof that Star Wars can magnetically seal something, why don't they just magnetically seal the ships so Laser weaponry can't hurt them? We know they can and are smart enough to realize a garbage compactor might need it. The answer is simple, magnetic seals work only against hand weaponry. We didn't see it work again anything larger and it obviously doesn't work against Star Ship weapons.

    Playing funny games like this to cover you delusions is childish, Dontai. Of course it is the only tactic you have left, dazzling them with bullshit.

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