View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #3401
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    7,679
    Do try to be realistic though...

    Sheer power is nothing. How you use it... how you direct it.

    Look at the Mark 48 ADCAP torp today- it's a relatively small warhead, only 650 pounds, but it's shaped charge generates a plasma jet able to peel back the aft end of an enemy submarine like a banana!

    A low yield at the right frequency, phase variance, and impact point is just as good as high yield blanket fire.

  2. #3402
    Minister of Technology
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    4,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Dontai View Post
    Dont try to frighten me with your sorcery ways scott, The Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe. DarthVader, is all that remains of their religion. All of your False words and ways don't frighten me.

    No jedi monk, sith or fish stick has those abilities, your force hasn't mange to defeat rebel alliance or do any thing of any apparent importance. It isn't even a concern to me. Your power are useless. I also, really dont care what george lucas says now adays, not since he made last couple of films. He is showing his age. I trust facts of original films and new ones didn't even follow path of first three, and to further the discussion, people that made your books were fools, i have read many star wars book, i have not read any that says the thing, that you say, nor do i care to, take your sorcery ways shove it up your ass.
    Heh, so you claim to be going by the universe, but single handedly reject what the Universe creator himself has decided constitutes Star Wars canon? Boy if that isn't like trying to breath in vacuum I don't know what is. The EU is canon unles the movies DIRECTLY dispute it. Only once has anyone said all the Jedi were extinct and he was a pompous ass who had the common sense of a gnat.


    I'm going to get star trek book aproved by vicom, and in this book we can fire 11 billion terrawatts Phaser and 50 billion terrawatts photon torpedoes to fight absurd with absurd.
    Wel, since it is Paramount who decides Star Trek Canon now and they have taken the hardline stance of Shows and Movies, everything else is just junk.


    'One of their most powerful ships produces 2 terrawatts at the best as per Riker's comment." What eps? What yeild?
    TNG Riker made the comment after hearing that there was a 2 terrawatt communications system broadcasting from the planet. He was amazed at the power levels indicated.

    In TNG: "The Dauphin",

    Data: "Sir, sensors indicate the communication originated from a terawatt source on the planet."
    Riker: "That's more power than our entire ship can generate."



    It would take the entire compliment of Photon Torpedoes to blow apart a mostly hollow sphere of rock 5km in diameter.

    - Not true i see them do that all the time with phaser and torpedoes.
    No you haven't. In that episode alone they had to use the phasing cloak to escape. Don't lie, it just makes real Trekkies mad

    You can fire a photon torpedo within 50 meters of your captain and he'll survive.

    - One word low yeild
    Yeah no kidding which is exactly like the ones you see used in Wrath of Khan, Undiscovered Country and so on. Not once do you see a normal photon torpedo do anything more impressive than a modern day 155mm howitzer shell


    Two unshielded ships take mutliple hits from Torpedoes and the explosion of the torpedo is hardly more than a few dozen meters.

    apparently you haven't heard of armor so why bother arguing with you
    Armor? Hello you can see from crew quarters that armor is at best eight inches thick. A modern day nuclear weapon would have left only dust of a 700 meter starship.

    And some how the slightly beefed up Quantum Torpedo is supposed to complete with a 12.5 gigaton laser cannon.

    - right, thier is propably one in existence, if at all...
    There are MILLIONS of those weapons. The 12.5 gigaton weapon is question comes on hundreds of thousands of Starwars vessels in batteries of 1 to over a thousand.


    Q -> kills -> Ang Ti, Palpatine, Anakin, Yoda and Luke
    Actually complete opposite. The Q can be seperated from their technology rather easily, Force Users cannot be seperated from their powers except by very rare animals that Q have no idea exist. Even then get outside the animals sphere of influence and the powers come back.

    Federation, Klingons, Cardassians, Romulans, Borg, Voth, and Dominion kill imperial forces.
    Hell, ST redshirts (which is the secuirity and infantry) can't even survive a stiff wind most days. How are they going to challenge Wookies, Noghri, Vong, StormTrooper, Rebel troops, and Battle droids?

    I have watch star wars your fire power isn't that strong. Watch first three movies again, your weapons fire power and every thing els is useless, cool but usless. You dont have many star destroyer, you have many worlds yes granted. I will not have battle to see which us could make up stupidest shit; which what people in your book did. so shut up about your absurd book, and becuase, far as i really care, you can shove the book up of your ass. If i did want listen to you rattle on about your books, i could name few good absurd trek book ...
    Watch Empirre Strikes back again and then ask someone who knows even an inkling of physics or chemistry how much power it would take to vaporize 100meter Asteroids with one shot. Calculate how much energy it takes to break planetary dbris free of local gravity. Then after you pick you jaw back up check you can apologize for being dumber than a post.

  3. #3403
    Minister of Technology
    Posts
    4,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Do try to be realistic though...

    Sheer power is nothing. How you use it... how you direct it.
    But you would argue that a 12.5 gigaton weapon will do more damage to a target than a 10.5 gigawatt weapon

    Look at the Mark 48 ADCAP torp today- it's a relatively small warhead, only 650 pounds, but it's shaped charge generates a plasma jet able to peel back the aft end of an enemy submarine like a banana!
    True, but the submarine is not made to withstand 12.5 gigaton blasts either is it?

    A low yield at the right frequency, phase variance, and impact point is just as good as high yield blanket fire.
    Only if the target can't withstand the high firepower. What your saying is that your taser can destroy a Oak tree as easily as a bolt of lightning. Nobody is buying that.

  4. #3404
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
    Posts
    7,679
    Don't start twisting my words Scott...

    If you take the phase variance of an EM shield as a sine wave, then match the phase variance of, say, a laser or phaser burst to that wave, compensating for disappation and the like, it would be highly probable that you could make a low-yield, long burn phaser "burst" penetrate the shield simply by co-inciding with the laws of electromagnetics. The two coinciding waves would increase in oscillation until the shield generator becomes overloaded. Basicly, you increase the strength of the shield until the "return" generator (because ALL electrical circuits must have a ground or a negative pole SOMEWHERE) cannot handle it. Once this burns out, bye bye circuit and bye bye shield.

    Take this with a grain of salt- I am only just starting to get into higher-maths and advanced electrical design in college, so I'm not 100% sure this would work quite this simply. But given Trek's advanced sensor capabilities, plus their ability to easily modify their weapons, I believe such a feat to be easily plausible.

  5. #3405
    whoa you're gonna have to go into further explanation on that on kittamaru

  6. #3406
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    35
    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post

    No you haven't. In that episode alone they had to use the phasing cloak to escape. Don't lie, it just makes real Trekkies mad

    Armor? Hello you can see from crew quarters that armor is at best eight inches thick. A modern day nuclear weapon would have left only dust of a 700 meter starship.

    Actually complete opposite. The Q can be seperated from their technology rather easily, Force Users cannot be seperated from their powers except by very rare animals that Q have no idea exist. Even then get outside the animals sphere of influence and the powers come back.

    Hell, ST redshirts (which is the secuirity and infantry) can't even survive a stiff wind most days. How are they going to challenge Wookies, Noghri, Vong, StormTrooper, Rebel troops, and Battle droids?

    Watch Empirre Strikes back again and then ask someone who knows even an inkling of physics or chemistry how much power it would take to vaporize 100meter Asteroids with one shot. Calculate how much energy it takes to break planetary dbris free of local gravity. Then after you pick you jaw back up check you can apologize for being dumber than a post.
    #1 Just watched an episode on SpikeTV of TNG where the Enterprise-D was destroying asteroids with phasers and torpedo shots. They picked up a virus from the dust that was affecting the replicators and such.

    #2 Armor is made of different metals, we all know that. In Trek they use many combinations of other such metals. The most damage a nuke can do now in Trek is EMP damage. That was mentioned in an Enterprise episode, just before that stupid Xindi planet weapon, which btw the full version, not the test vessel, could destroy a whole planet with one shot.

    #3 Q seperated from their technology.....what?? What tech??

    #4 Yeah, ground forces in Star Wars. Empire owned by Ewoks....nuff said.

  7. #3407
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
    Posts
    7,679
    sure Saquist.

    Energy works on two principals. Direct Current and Alternating Current. Given that phasers have a frequency, phase variance (phase shift), and a period (length of burst) it stands to reason they are a form of electric current. AC current is easier to co-herce to a higher energy state than DC current. The same would hold true for shielding. An "alternating" phase state shield could better protect the vessel due to the ease in which you can change it's properties.

    The inherent problem with that, though, is the frequency.

    If you match the weapons fire to the frequency (in trek, modulation of the shields), then you will do one of two things. The exact OPPOSITE frequency, phase variance, and uh... meh, I forget the other term... will pass thru the shield as though it wasn't there. This is what happened with the klingon BoP taking out the Enterprise D.

    The exact SAME frequency will impact the shields fully with no leak through. If you can match the sine waves you can, theoreticly, overload the shield generators. It'd be like applying a much higher voltage sine wave to a low voltage circuit but keeping the rest of the properties the same- in the end, one part will give out. If the phaser arrays are cycled properly, the shield generators will be what fails under stress.

    Basicly, think of it like a power supply + resistor circuit. Ohms law states:

    Voltage = Current x Resistance

    OR

    Current = Voltage / Resistance -> I = V/R

    1kV thru a 1 Kohm resistor.

    I = unknown
    V = 1,000
    R = 1,000

    so

    I = 1,000/1,000, which is 1A or one Ampre.

    Now, if you shove another, say, 4,000 volts into that from an exterior source.

    I = 5,000/1,000 which is 5A, or 5 Ampres.

    The exponential increase in the power disappation needs of that resistor to hold the circuit becomes very high and, unless it has a very powerful heat sink, it will likely burn out.

    Now, multiply all these figures by a factor of 10^16th to simulte the Giga and TerraWatt range.

    Yeah. The heat output would be enormous, even for a space-faring vessel.

    Obviously the different materials would give them better resistance to this kind of thing... but even Rubber can conduct a charge if the charge is powerful enough.

  8. #3408
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    69
    All this squirming and it's down to just three things.

    1: If the Q get involved (Assuming they didn't start the whole mess for their own amusement) it's pretty much pointless.

    2: Star Wars ITW and ICS are canon. Period. Indisputable fact, until a film demonstrates otherwise (Which they have not) or until LFL declares an error (something that also has not happened). Get over it.

    3: Nothing demonstrated on screen has ever even suggested that any common Star Trek vessel can either produce or withstand gigaton effect weaponry of any kind.

    Folks, it's over.

  9. #3409
    Minister of Technology
    Posts
    4,149
    Quote Originally Posted by grimlockprime View Post
    #1 Just watched an episode on SpikeTV of TNG where the Enterprise-D was destroying asteroids with phasers and torpedo shots. They picked up a virus from the dust that was affecting the replicators and such.
    Yes, small asteroids, five and ten weter wide ones. When they were retrieving the Pegasus they got trapped in a 70-80% hollow asteroid that was only 5 km or so across. Riker specifically stated it would take the Entire compliment of Photon Torpedos to blast their way out.

    #2 Armor is made of different metals, we all know that. In Trek they use many combinations of other such metals. The most damage a nuke can do now in Trek is EMP damage. That was mentioned in an Enterprise episode, just before that stupid Xindi planet weapon, which btw the full version, not the test vessel, could destroy a whole planet with one shot.
    Well, Enterprise enters a whole other problem. Either it is Canon or the other Series are canon. The whole series violates the history made by the other four series. If one is the reality then the others do not exist. However even if you do somhow later the Federation loses thos 'magical' material as Thermonuclear devices are still effective threats against starships in Voyager.

    #3 Q seperated from their technology.....what?? What tech??
    Don't read much Clark do you? Any sufficently advanced technology wil be as if magic to a culture not as advanced. If the Q's powers were internal they could not be granted or stripped, Q would not be afraid of Guinana and so on. The only explanation that fits everything else Roddenberry has made is that it is Technology. I will also note it is widely held that Tremaine (TOS) is Q (TNG) and his powers were definately due to technology.

    #4 Yeah, ground forces in Star Wars. Empire owned by Ewoks....nuff said.
    Hey first of all it was 200 hundred troppers vs 1500 ewoks, 50 rebel commandos (think Navy SEALS), Han (think Snake Plisken), Liea (think the woman Snake would call Ma'am), and Chewie. They were doing well until Chewie stole one of the Scout vehicles.

  10. #3410
    Minister of Technology
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    4,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    sure Saquist.

    Energy works on two principals. Direct Current and Alternating Current. Given that phasers have a frequency, phase variance (phase shift), and a period (length of burst) it stands to reason they are a form of electric current. AC current is easier to co-herce to a higher energy state than DC current. The same would hold true for shielding. An "alternating" phase state shield could better protect the vessel due to the ease in which you can change it's properties.

    The inherent problem with that, though, is the frequency.

    If you match the weapons fire to the frequency (in trek, modulation of the shields), then you will do one of two things. The exact OPPOSITE frequency, phase variance, and uh... meh, I forget the other term... will pass thru the shield as though it wasn't there. This is what happened with the klingon BoP taking out the Enterprise D.

    The exact SAME frequency will impact the shields fully with no leak through. If you can match the sine waves you can, theoreticly, overload the shield generators. It'd be like applying a much higher voltage sine wave to a low voltage circuit but keeping the rest of the properties the same- in the end, one part will give out. If the phaser arrays are cycled properly, the shield generators will be what fails under stress.

    Basicly, think of it like a power supply + resistor circuit. Ohms law states:

    Voltage = Current x Resistance

    OR

    Current = Voltage / Resistance -> I = V/R

    1kV thru a 1 Kohm resistor.

    I = unknown
    V = 1,000
    R = 1,000

    so

    I = 1,000/1,000, which is 1A or one Ampre.

    Now, if you shove another, say, 4,000 volts into that from an exterior source.

    I = 5,000/1,000 which is 5A, or 5 Ampres.

    The exponential increase in the power disappation needs of that resistor to hold the circuit becomes very high and, unless it has a very powerful heat sink, it will likely burn out.

    Now, multiply all these figures by a factor of 10^16th to simulte the Giga and TerraWatt range.

    Yeah. The heat output would be enormous, even for a space-faring vessel.

    Obviously the different materials would give them better resistance to this kind of thing... but even Rubber can conduct a charge if the charge is powerful enough.
    Well considering a 400 gigwatt antiproton burst hit the shield and took thenm down in one shot, fried the grid on the second and crippled the vessel on the third, a Coherent pulse of Photons-Plasma-Microwaves-Gamma wave-Infrared that is roughly 52 million times more power is going to a hell of a lot more damage.

  11. #3411
    Not anitproton.
    particle energy...It was a particle beam and the Enterprise has with stood greater firepower. STick to it if you like but that's the Enterprise has withstood at least 2 terawatts of power....

    Then it's not even important. Star Wars ships just don't have that amount of firepower and you guys haven't done a thing to prove it. Those are the tickets.

    Enteprise was never crippled. Which should give you an idea that everything that happened in this episode was fishy.

    "Thermal damage?" after the shields failed and Work was attempting to put them back together... The Hull should have been breeched. And Enterprise had all systems intact...the only thing that ever failed was the shields.
    I don't know why I'm trying at this point. You know this but you just don't care...It's a number you're going to stick by.

  12. #3412
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Then it's not even important. Star Wars ships just don't have that amount of firepower and you guys haven't done a thing to prove it. Those are the tickets.

    FALSE: The ICS is proof of Star Wars firepower levels. LFL approved. Canon. Period. Thanks for playing.

  13. #3413
    Minister of Technology
    Posts
    4,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Not anitproton.
    particle energy...It was a particle beam and the Enterprise has with stood greater firepower. STick to it if you like but that's the Enterprise has withstood at least 2 terawatts of power....

    Then it's not even important. Star Wars ships just don't have that amount of firepower and you guys haven't done a thing to prove it. Those are the tickets.

    Enteprise was never crippled. Which should give you an idea that everything that happened in this episode was fishy.

    "Thermal damage?" after the shields failed and Work was attempting to put them back together... The Hull should have been breeched. And Enterprise had all systems intact...the only thing that ever failed was the shields.
    I don't know why I'm trying at this point. You know this but you just don't care...It's a number you're going to stick by.

    STAR TREK: "The Survivors" - REV. 8/3/89 - ACT THREE 35.

    46 INCLUDE MAIN VIEWER (OPTICAL)

    As the warship lets fly with an awesome barrage of
    electro-magnetic and particle death. The Enterprise
    rocks. The bridge lights flicker. It's a heavy hit --

    WORF
    (continuing)
    Shields down! Captain, they hit
    us with four hundred gigawatts
    of particle energy!

    PICARD
    Damage?

    WORF
    Superficial -- but I am having
    trouble reassembling the shields!

    The warship fires again. The Enterprise rocks again.

    WORF
    (continuing)
    Shields down! There is thermal
    damage to the hull!

    DATA
    The warship is in possession of
    enormous energy reserves. It is
    capable of striking us with
    far more powerful bursts.

    WESLEY
    They're maneuvering to come
    between the Enterprise and Rana
    Four.

    PICARD
    Number One, we have been exemplary
    in our patience.

    RIKER
    (with pleasure)
    Lieutenant Worf, fire phasers on
    full with a simultaneous spread
    of torpedoes.

    47 EXT. SPACE - THE ENTERPRISE AND WARSHIP (OPTICAL)

    The Enterprise lets fly. The warship is hit -- but it
    might as well have been with a feather pillow.


    STAR TREK: "The Survivors" - REV. 8/3/89 - ACT THREE 36.

    48 INT. MAIN BRIDGE (OPTICAL)

    DATA
    The vessel appears undamaged.
    Its defenses are apparently able
    to absorb incoming matter and
    energy.

    RIKER
    Commence rapid fire with all
    weapons on full!

    The Enterprise lets loose with everything it's got in a
    sustained barrage. The warship is unaffected. It
    fires back with one awesome burst. The Enterprise is
    knocked head over heels (so to speak). The entire
    bridge crew is knocked down. There is damage to the
    bridge -- and injuries to one of the supernumeraries.

    WORF
    Shields are down! There is
    internal damage -- weapon systems
    control has been lost!

    RIKER
    Riker to Sickbay. Medical
    assistance to the bridge!

    PICARD
    Mister Crusher, move the
    Enterprise out of range of the
    attacking vessel!

    49
    thru OMITTED
    50

    51 EXT. SPACE - THE ENTERPRISE (OPTICAL)

    The Enterprise limps for deep space as fast as it is
    able. The warship hangs back, now in complete
    possession of Rana IV.

    52 INT. MAIN BRIDGE

    Worf is bitter -- but understanding -- about fleeing
    the battle.

    WORF
    The vessel has terminated its
    pursuit. It is assuming an orbit
    around Rana Four.

    STAR TREK: "The Survivors" - 7/31/89 - ACT THREE 37.

    52 CONTINUED:

    RIKER
    (suddenly remembering)
    Rishon and Kevin...

    PICARD
    We can't help them... But it's
    my guess they're in no danger.

    Medical assistance arrives for the injured on the
    bridge.

    FADE OUT.

    END OF ACT THREE

    STAR TREK: "The Survivors" - REV. 8/11/89 - ACT FOUR 38.

    ACT FOUR

    FADE IN:

    53 EXT. SPACE - THE ENTERPRISE (OPTICAL)

    The Enterprise moves away from the Rana system at
    impulse speed.

    54 OMITTED

    55 INT. CORRIDOR - PICARD AND BEVERLY

    Picard and Beverly move quickly for Troi's quarters.

    PICARD
    Number of casualties?

    BEVERLY
    Sixty-six.

    PICARD
    Fatalities?

    BEVERLY
    None. We've been able to treat
    everyone.

    55A INT. TROI'S QUARTERS - FAVORING TROI

    Picard and Beverly ENTER. Move to where Troi is
    sleeping. She is still in induced coma, but showing
    subtle signs that indicate the music is still in her
    head. Picard is concerned.

    PICARD
    Can you help her?

    BEVERLY
    I've done everything I can. I
    don't understand the nature of
    this music she says she's hearing,
    or where it's coming from.

    STAR TREK: "The Survivors" - REV. 8/3/89 - ACT FOUR 39.

    55A CONTINUED:

    PICARD
    Could it be telepathic?

    BEVERLY
    (a shrug)
    Yes. But I'm no expert at
    determining that.

    PICARD
    (controlled anger)
    They're blocking her sensitivity
    ... keeping her from "seeing"
    the truth.

    BEVERLY
    Who?

    PICARD
    Rishon and Kevin.

    BEVERLY
    What?

    PICARD
    They wanted us to leave Rana...
    and that's exactly what we're
    doing.

    A beat as Picard comes to a difficult but necessary
    decision.

    PICARD
    (continuing)
    Picard to bridge.

    RIKER'S COM VOICE
    Yes, Captain.

    PICARD
    Number One, I want you to maintain
    the present course for another
    hour, then turn the Enterprise
    around and take it back to Rana
    Four.

    Beverly gives Picard a shocked look. Riker is puzzled
    too.

    RIKER'S COM VOICE
    Sir? We still won't have our
    shields restored by then.

    STAR TREK: "The Survivors" - REV. 8/3/89 - ACT FOUR 40.

    55A CONTINUED: (2)

    PICARD
    We're going back, Commander --
    and this time nothing is going
    to lure us away.

    CUT TO:

    56 EXT. SPACE - THE ENTERPRISE (OPTICAL)

    A couple of hours have passed. The ship cautiously
    limps back into orbit around Rana IV.



    There was Hull damage, Shields were fried, Weapons were out and the ship was barely capable of impulse. 66 injured people. From 3 shots....You have now been exposed as a complete and utter liar Saquist.

  14. #3414
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
    Posts
    7,679
    What the hell is the ICS? I honestly don't recognize it as an acronym for any ship... I'm assuming a tech guide?

    You still forget- the Enterprise E is a mere 750 meters long. A super star destroyer had trouble hitting a freaking capital ship with some of it's "heavy" weaponry. I doubt the little anti-fighter turrets would do much to the Ent-E's shield grid. Combine that with a very high effective impulse speed, good manuverability, and the ability to disable the imperial fighters with one or two well placed shots, taking out most of their anti-ship arsenal, I think trek could win.

    Even if Wars had the sheer firepower advantage in terms of power, this "power" is meant to engage large vessles, like things the size of small moons. Not ships the size of small buildings!

  15. #3415
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    35
    Same episode TW Scott is posting material from, leaving out some key information.
    #1 The ship isn't real, it is a creation of an immortal being.
    #2 Yet another friend of the Federation that could wipe the floor with Jedi and Sith.
    ------------------------------
    As Picard turns to go, he vows that the Enterprise will remain in orbit around Rana to protect the couple, as long as they live, whether they want the protection or not.
    Shortly after Picard returns to his bridge, the enemy ship reappears. Without any interference from the Enterprise this time, the warship obliterates the Uxbridge home — whereupon Picard orders his crew to fire a single photon torpedo, easily destroying the attacker. The Enterprise then moves to a higher orbit in order to continue observing the now-lifeless planet. A few hours later, the Uxbridge house abruptly reappears, totally unscathed, on the surface of Rana. Annoyed but feeling vindicated, Picard orders the transporter to lock onto the Uxbridges and has them beamed up without any advance warning.
    Confronted by Picard's analysis of the situation and unable to keep up the pretense any longer, Kevin finally admits that things are not as they seem. He is a Douwd — a member of a race of advanced, immortal energy beings, who had been traveling the galaxy in human form many years ago when he met and fell in love with Rishon. When their colony came under attack by a warship belonging to the Husnock — "a species of hideous intelligence who knew only aggression and destruction" — Rishon went to help defend her home, but Kevin — secretly possessing unimaginable powers but having vowed long ago never to kill anyone for any reason — stayed behind. In the end, all the other colonists died in the battle — including Rishon, who died without ever knowing her husband's true nature.
    ----------
    The power levels that Star Wars throws around are crazy sounding, but what process is used to create the energy? In Trek we know it's a matter/anti-matter reaction, what does Star Wars use? Just for fun lets see the power involved in gigawatts and terawatts and see how things stack up:

    Gigawatt (10^9 watt)

    * 1.21 GW - Sci Fi: power needed to run the Flux Capacitor in Back to the Future to travel though time
    * 1.3 GW - Tech: electric power output of Manitoba Hydro Limestone hydroelectric generating station
    * 2.074 GW - Tech: peak power generation of Hoover Dam
    * 2.1 GW - Tech: peak power generation of Aswan Dam
    * 3 GW - Tech: approximate peak power generation of the world's largest nuclear reactor
    * 12.6 GW - Tech: electrical power generation of the Itaipu Dam, the world's largest hydroelectric power plant
    * 12.7 GW - Geo: average electrical power consumption of Norway in 1998
    * 18.2 GW - Tech: projected electrical power generation of the Three Gorges Dam in China when complete.


    Terawatt (10^12 watt)

    * 1.7 TW - Geo: average electrical power consumption of the world in 2001
    * 3.327 TW - Geo: average total (gas, electricity, etc) power consumption of the U.S. in 2001
    * 13.5 TW - Geo: average total power consumption of the human world in 2001
    * 44 TW - Geo: average total heat flux from earth's interior
    * 75 TW - Eco: based on global net primary production (= biomass production) via photosynthesis
    * 50 to 200 TW - Weather: rate of heat energy release by a hurricane
    * 290 TW - The power the Z Machine reaches in 1 billionth of a second when it is fired
    * In "Star Trek: The Next Generation", the warp core of the fictitious Enterprise-D was able to produce a maximum power output into the Terawatt range.

    What do Star Destroyers and the Death Star use as a power source? Here is a list of things that go BEYOND the terawatt range:

    Petawatt (1015 watt)

    * 1.25 PW - Tech: world's most powerful laser pulses (claimed on 23 May 1996 by Lawrence Livermore Laboratory).
    * 1.4 PW - Geo: estimated heat flux transported by the Gulf Stream.
    * 4 PW - Geo: estimated total heat flux transported by Earth's atmosphere and oceans away from the equator towards the poles.
    * 174.0 PW - Astro: total power received by the Earth from the Sun

    Exawatt (1018 watt)

    * 1 EW - Astro: Approximate power generated between the surfaces of Jupiter and its moon Io due to Jupiter's tremendous magnetic field.

    Zettawatt (1021 watt)

    * 135 ZW - Astro: Approximate luminosity of Wolf 359

    Yottawatt (1024 watt)

    * 5.3 YW - Tech: Power produced by the Tsar Bomba fusion bomb, the most powerful device ever made
    * 386 YW - Astro: Luminosity of the Sun

    Greater than Yottawatt

    * 3.31 × 1031W - Astro: Approximate luminosity of Beta Centauri
    * 1.23 × 1032W - Astro: Approximate luminosity of Deneb
    * 5 × 1036W - Astro: Approximate luminosity of the Milky way galaxy.
    * 1 × 1045W - Astro: Approximate luminosity of a Gamma ray burst
    * 3.63 × 1052W - Phys: The Planck power, the basic unit of power in the Planck units.


    Just some fun science FYI...courtesy of wiki, worldbook, and JPL/NASA

  16. #3416
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    7,679
    Then Star Trek's power output is in the Yottawatt range.

    Why?

    They seem to make frequent use of Gamma Ray bursts to disrupt different things.

    Plot hole, I know, but still it's in the series so it must be cannon going by the logic i've seen here

    And NOBODY has said what the ICS is supposed to be! I wanna know damnit XD

  17. #3417
    Minister of Technology
    Posts
    4,149
    Quote Originally Posted by grimlockprime View Post
    Same episode TW Scott is posting material from, leaving out some key information.
    #1 The ship isn't real, it is a creation of an immortal being.
    #2 Yet another friend of the Federation that could wipe the floor with Jedi and Sith.
    It doesn matter if the beam was created by winged leperchuans. it had a REAL effect even injuring people. The sources is not the issue, the power output is.

    Douwd would not help the Federation as proof that he didn't even save his wife who he loved...



    The power levels that Star Wars throws around are crazy sounding, but what process is used to create the energy? In Trek we know it's a matter/anti-matter reaction, what does Star Wars use? Just for fun lets see the power involved in gigawatts and terawatts and see how things stack up:

    Gigawatt (10^9 watt)

    * 1.21 GW - Sci Fi: power needed to run the Flux Capacitor in Back to the Future to travel though time
    * 1.3 GW - Tech: electric power output of Manitoba Hydro Limestone hydroelectric generating station
    * 2.074 GW - Tech: peak power generation of Hoover Dam
    * 2.1 GW - Tech: peak power generation of Aswan Dam
    * 3 GW - Tech: approximate peak power generation of the world's largest nuclear reactor
    * 12.6 GW - Tech: electrical power generation of the Itaipu Dam, the world's largest hydroelectric power plant
    * 12.7 GW - Geo: average electrical power consumption of Norway in 1998
    * 18.2 GW - Tech: projected electrical power generation of the Three Gorges Dam in China when complete.


    Terawatt (10^12 watt)

    * 1.7 TW - Geo: average electrical power consumption of the world in 2001
    * 3.327 TW - Geo: average total (gas, electricity, etc) power consumption of the U.S. in 2001
    * 13.5 TW - Geo: average total power consumption of the human world in 2001
    * 44 TW - Geo: average total heat flux from earth's interior
    * 75 TW - Eco: based on global net primary production (= biomass production) via photosynthesis
    * 50 to 200 TW - Weather: rate of heat energy release by a hurricane
    * 290 TW - The power the Z Machine reaches in 1 billionth of a second when it is fired
    * In "Star Trek: The Next Generation", the warp core of the fictitious Enterprise-D was able to produce a maximum power output into the Terawatt range.

    What do Star Destroyers and the Death Star use as a power source? Here is a list of things that go BEYOND the terawatt range:

    Petawatt (1015 watt)

    * 1.25 PW - Tech: world's most powerful laser pulses (claimed on 23 May 1996 by Lawrence Livermore Laboratory).
    * 1.4 PW - Geo: estimated heat flux transported by the Gulf Stream.
    * 4 PW - Geo: estimated total heat flux transported by Earth's atmosphere and oceans away from the equator towards the poles.
    * 174.0 PW - Astro: total power received by the Earth from the Sun

    Exawatt (1018 watt)

    * 1 EW - Astro: Approximate power generated between the surfaces of Jupiter and its moon Io due to Jupiter's tremendous magnetic field.

    Zettawatt (1021 watt)

    * 135 ZW - Astro: Approximate luminosity of Wolf 359

    Yottawatt (1024 watt)

    * 5.3 YW - Tech: Power produced by the Tsar Bomba fusion bomb, the most powerful device ever made
    * 386 YW - Astro: Luminosity of the Sun

    Greater than Yottawatt

    * 3.31 × 1031W - Astro: Approximate luminosity of Beta Centauri
    * 1.23 × 1032W - Astro: Approximate luminosity of Deneb
    * 5 × 1036W - Astro: Approximate luminosity of the Milky way galaxy.
    * 1 × 1045W - Astro: Approximate luminosity of a Gamma ray burst
    * 3.63 × 1052W - Phys: The Planck power, the basic unit of power in the Planck units.


    Just some fun science FYI...courtesy of wiki, worldbook, and JPL/NASA
    Starwars uses some variants of fusion for simple droids, lamps, speeders and tripod weapons. They use hypermatter reactors for anything bigger than a speeder. of course it a fictitous power source but an effective one.

    Standard Star Wars Heavy Turbo laser=12.5 gigatons= 52,355,000,000,000,000,000 joules= 5.2 x 10^19 watts= 52 Exawatts produced in 1/15th of a second

    Now assuming we take the high end of you example for terawatts and assume the Warp core produces 290 terawatts for the Enterprise D then a Single Heavy Turbo Laser hits with 2,708,017.24 times the energy of the output of the Enterprise D's Warp Core

    Are we getting a picture yet?


    A note on the Tsar bomb that is the toal power produced over 39 nanosecond. The total power out put was only 2.1x10^17, but if the reaction laster a full second it would have been 5.24x10^24
    Last edited by TW Scott; 03-24-07 at 04:14 AM.

  18. #3418
    Minister of Technology
    Posts
    4,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Then Star Trek's power output is in the Yottawatt range.

    Why?

    They seem to make frequent use of Gamma Ray bursts to disrupt different things.

    Plot hole, I know, but still it's in the series so it must be cannon going by the logic i've seen here

    And NOBODY has said what the ICS is supposed to be! I wanna know damnit XD
    No, the Wiki above has been corrected for recent findings about Gamma ray Bursts and the discovery that they are far more powerful than we had thought before. Star trek was very meticulous about stating the power level of their uses of the main deflector. So it would be more accurate to call the one in Star Trek Gamma Ray Emissions and not actual Gamma Ray Bursts.


    ICS is a technical manual publisheld under LFL permission and copyright. By LFL policy it is canon.

  19. #3419
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
    Posts
    7,679
    Doesnt' help mate... what's LFL? 0o'

    If we went by purely plausible power supplies, star trek would win. I highly doubt it's really possible to build a hypermater reactor... what the hell does that mean though 0o' Lil wormhole inside the reactor or sommat? I dunno... least Trek clearly defines their technobabble, even if they do contradict themselves now and again XD

    Don't mind me... it's 6:30 in the morning and I'm drunk on lack of sleep... insomnia sucks and I been up around 70 hours so far

  20. #3420
    Plutarch (Mickey's Dog)
    Posts
    9,214
    Kittamaru:

    Take a sleeping pill. At that point, you have to.

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