View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #3301
    Registered Member
    Posts
    20

    Talking

    [if the falcon did have cloaking you have seen the ship fade into nothing. the falcon could have had electronic disabling equiptment. also that ship in startrek inteprise can rearange the shields, thus making the weak spot anywhere they wanted. also the ship could just turn itself into a jedy or imperial ship and use that ships own weapons.=Dracula's Guest;110257]A cloaking device would be useless against Vader's and Palpatines force abilities, they could easily sense the impending danger a light year away.Besides, cloaking devices exist within the Star Wars world (In the Empire Strikes Back, after the Millenium Falcon eludes a pursuing Star Destroyer, the imperial officers cosider the possibility the falcon may have cloaked itself.)


    The Borg seemed intent on assimilating earth, yet they only attempted a small handful of times with about one cube at a time, I doubt they would really bother sending a number of cubes for the purpose of a single space vehicle like the Death Star.

    The X-wing fighters are quite capable of inflicting alot of damage. Proton Torpedoes could chip away at the deflector shields in the Star Trek ships at various weak points, and literally swarm the ship. (And I wont even go into what the Tie Defenders and Interceptors are capable of). The fighters in Star Wars exploit weaknesses. A large starship is slow and has less maneuovarability, whereas the fighters could criss cross over the hull of the ship. Plus there is the B-wing fighters, which appear in Return Of the Jedi, as well as the Xwing games. They can be used as a heavy assault fighter, for the purpose of disabling Star Destroyers with a large amoury of Torpedo's and missiles.

    The Aliens you are thinking of are 8472, but the writers of Star Trek ran out of ideas, so they stole the superlaser from the Death Star and implanted it in their bio-ships. The way the beam forms is pretty much identical to the Death Stars superwearpon, which demonstrates its capability of destroying a Borg vessel and/or planet[/QUOTE]

  2. #3302
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    69
    [QUOTE=Saquist;1316137]Now explain why the A-Wings and X-Wings were making it a priority target even after Ackbar ordered the destruction of Executor. And you would have sold me.[/quit]

    Simple. The domes housed sensors that allowed greater coordination of the ship's guns. With them damaged, the Executor's fire control was crippled. The fact that they're delicate sensor systems makes them tempting targets of oppurtunity for fighters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    OH no...you have to do much more to "piss me off" Sian.
    The movie was in strict chronological order. My perceptions don't come into play...It' the validity in canon your source has....
    Wrongo! The movie visuals do not contradict the Into the Worlds source. No matter how much you might want them to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    We don't have to speculate on this. George Lucas say their shield generators and they were pivotable to the destruction of the Executor hense why they were on screen.i
    They were what? pivotable? They could swivel? wow.
    Cite source on the Lucas quote please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Since I'm in the drafting field...the only knowledge I have about the prefix ISO

    is the International Organization for Standardization ISO
    in SCIENCE, it means 10^0, which equals 1. We're assuming it was redefined at some point in Trek, though it might not have been..

    What they designated ISO to stand for...I don't know. But if it's like anything It'll be a base 10 number.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    And seeing as Janeway and Seven of NINE and Tuvok are all in Agreement...what ever it is 5,000,000,000 tons of it are...we know it's enough to destroy a solar system. This is something which is likely on the scale of the Genesis Devices explosion.
    Well, I already gave the numbers pages back on the theoretical absolute maximum yield of an 'isoton' in more familiar terms, based on the known quantity of antimatter within a photon torpedo warhead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Sian and TWSCOTT

    Your strategy of Canon/turnabout/ Uncanon/turnabout/canon/ turnabout/speculation....

    may seem reasonable to you...but it's more than established that your goal isn't to make sense of canon...it's to make right of canon...and you're doing so any way you can.

    I don't think you could walk the canon line anymore that a drunk. Nor could you reason out the truth in the canon than could a court apointed district attorney.

    I understand....you're just getting the job done. You don't have to put any effort but follow canon. It's the lying I have a problem with and you do so only on your clients behalf...
    Whut? Anyone who reads this forum with more than two braincells to rub together knows we're right and you're wrong, by simply looking at the evidence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post

    Arguing in favor of Trek never occured to you...sadly arguing the truth hasn't occured to either.
    Because all the numbers we can find are 3 or more orders of magnitude below the numbers produced by Star Wars propulsion, shield, and weapon systems. It's simple.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    It just seems I'm being more objective than you are....
    wow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    But I have to...If I want my story Star Wars-Star Trek~Cataclysm to make sense and bring the two sides together for more than a conquest then I'll have to find a settling point.

    Star War's can't be weak but Trek can't simply be a push over either. It's the basis for suspense. And your arguements have been conditioning me to both sides of the fense.
    That's just it. in an all-out conflict between the two universes that isn't limited in some severe way, there won't be any dramatic suspense, because it would be a curbstomp. A good writer would find a way, probably by severely limiting the Star Wars side. If you want your story to be believable, have the races of the Star Wars galaxy band together to attempt to stop a virtually unstoppable foe.. a single SSD battlegroup that's trapped far away from home.

  3. #3303
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post
    The Aliens you are thinking of are 8472, but the writers of Star Trek ran out of ideas, so they stole the superlaser from the Death Star and implanted it in their bio-ships. The way the beam forms is pretty much identical to the Death Stars superwearpon, which demonstrates its capability of destroying a Borg vessel and/or planet
    Actually their superweapon took multiple seconds to destroy the planet, implying a chain-reaction based effect (like phasers, most trek weapons rely on some subatomic chain reaction) was in use, and as it didn't detonate the planet and fling chunks at a significant fraction of c, we can easily see that the power involved was orders of magnitude less.

  4. #3304
    Minister of Technology
    Posts
    4,149
    Hmmm. So Saquist doesn't actually want an all out war between the sides, he wants a Miniseries event. Well form a entertainment aspect that is fine and dandy. However for a serious discussion (as serious as one can get with fictional worlds) expecting the Star Trek Universe to stand up to the Star Wars universe is like asking a Napoleonic Era Army to stand up to US Army 5th Mechanized Infantry Division. Their might be a few casualities on the 5th Mech side, but over all the Napoleonic Army will be crushed and the only thing left some interesting souveniers.

  5. #3305
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Gaarni View Post
    I just hate it when you guys arn't accurate.


    That EU has not done it's homework is not a new thing.
    Do you deny that those domes had a critical role in the movies?


    What's stated the most is not necessarly the right thing.
    Then there is nothing but conflict with Star War's

    I've slowly be coming around to the perception that Star Trek on screen only policy is better than I once though.

    I can not believe the number of contradictions so far. Essentially you're saying we can believe just what ever we want...While Lucas Film seems to have made a stand on canon the contradictions abound.


    [/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    Simple. The domes housed sensors that allowed greater coordination of the ship's guns. With them damaged, the Executor's fire control was crippled. The fact that they're delicate sensor systems makes them tempting targets of oppurtunity for fighters.
    You really can't give a canon reason why they would target "sensor" domes can you. Same Question Jan...if you care to offer up anything canon.


    Wrongo! The movie visuals do not contradict the Into the Worlds source. No matter how much you might want them to.
    It's not that I want them to they do and they constanly do so.


    in SCIENCE, it means 10^0, which equals 1. We're assuming it was redefined at some point in Trek, though it might not have been..
    I've seen no indication.

    Well, I already gave the numbers pages back on the theoretical absolute maximum yield of an 'isoton' in more familiar terms, based on the known quantity of antimatter within a photon torpedo warhead.
    Dude you've lied skeemed and weaseled the whole time....your word is nothing be air.


    Whut? Anyone who reads this forum with more than two braincells to rub together knows we're right and you're wrong, by simply looking at the evidence.
    Let me tell ya what their gonna see Sian...There going to see that I've pulled out some powerful examples, practicaly every example of low power destruction and all your response equal to is....

    "THEY TURNED THE POWER DOWN!!!"


    That's just it. in an all-out conflict between the two universes that isn't limited in some severe way, there won't be any dramatic suspense, because it would be a curbstomp. A good writer would find a way, probably by severely limiting the Star Wars side. If you want your story to be believable,
    My story will reflect the movies and the books that I've read. In other words no there will be no considerable giga ton weapons on either side.
    [/QUOTE]
    Last edited by Saquist; 03-06-07 at 07:27 AM.

  6. #3306
    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Hmmm. So Saquist doesn't actually want an all out war between the sides, he wants a Miniseries event. Well form a entertainment aspect that is fine and dandy. However for a serious discussion (as serious as one can get with fictional worlds) expecting the Star Trek Universe to stand up to the Star Wars universe is like asking a Napoleonic Era Army to stand up to US Army 5th Mechanized Infantry Division. Their might be a few casualities on the 5th Mech side, but over all the Napoleonic Army will be crushed and the only thing left some interesting souveniers.
    I want I conflict...not a conquest...
    Anything more would be implausible with the current governments in play. Anythings pausible but Star Wars would come out on the losing side if they attempted to invade another galaxy so soon after the Vong war...They'll be rebuilding for 100's of years. Coruscant is a total loss.


    Trek weapons

    From what I can tell. Voyager's Torpedoes are destructively higher than the previous seasons. Scorpion tells us 200 isotons. But the explosion they make at impact is normally far less than even what we've seen the Enterprise D pull off.

    The nature of the torpedo is like a cruise missle. It's powered to fly long distances with a matter/antimatter warhead. And we also know that's shielded and it has a highly modular design and has been retrofitted as probes, sensor platforms, they've stablized geological events and have stablized stellar cores.

    Extrapolation:
    However I believe the shield does more than protect the torpedo. That shield frequency can be changed to penetrate...but I think that the true purpose of the torpdeo shield is make the Torpedo into concentrated energy weapon.

    Trek just doesn 't show explosions on the regular basis in a Megaton range. Trek, I believe has created a weapon much like the cruise missle and bunker buster than impacts and delivers it war head in the form of energy instead of allowing in to condense into matter...that shield also acts like a filter releasing that energy at a certain frequency in stead at a random spectrum.

    This is what I meant by the torpedo being Trek best weapon against the Star Wars camp as they've never seen a shielded weapon used in such a way.

    The Quantum torpedo takes it further and As we've seen in First Contact Four Quantum torpedoes took out a sizeable Borg Sphere. The torp seems to have obvious bunker busting ability penetrating all types of armore. There appears to be different types of Quantums torps aswell as they've not all the same thing.

    Enterprise seems to have the strongest.
    Defiant next and Defiants eariler weapons didn't have the same destructive potential as the latter war heads which were weak.

    With the commonly regarded Galaxy class type ten phaser producing enough fire power to vaporize metal alloys 200 meters cubed and nearly solid. I don't think Trek will have any problems going up against the Imperial Fleet. Conviently Canon doesn't stand in my way either.

    Defensively the Federation may or may not have anything to worry about. Star Wars while stating 200gigatons doesn't show it. Reading through all the EU and witnessing the lack of Megaton level damage in it's star fighters and ground forces....Star Wars is in heavy conflict with it's self.

    Every ground assault lacks any evidence of weapons of mass destruction. When the Republic could have rescued the survivors and nuked the Seditionist from orbit they engaged in a long drawn out ground battle exposing their captial ships to great harm by enemy forces.

    This speaks of range and fire power at once.

    Endor is Star War's greatest debacle. A Wookie and village of Ewoks with bows and arrows is the downfall of the imperial ground assault moral.

    The Planetary Shield

    One of the biggest difference in the Star Wars movie vs EU conflict is the Planetary shield. Begining in Clone Wars we see that the Seditionist penetrate straight to the surface...taken by surprise? No Mace Windu tells us that enemy ships continue to pour out of hyperspace. Coruscant is fully powered but...no shield at Coruscant. That premise is carried on into the Third movie where anakin takes the ship straigh to the surface and lands with out clearence for a shield perimeter.

    Every shield that stops concentrated light...(laser) is going to be graviton EM disturbance. Gravity is the only known force to block light in any form and EM is the only energy that works in a field...(gravity excluded). Both Star Trek and Star Gate shields block light and objects.

    Star's shields do not block objects...
    The ray shield and the particle shield are seperate.
    Star Destroyers don't have particle sields(Milllenium Falcon perches underneath a "sensor" dome.. Apparently neither did the first Death Star as the fighters simply flew through it.

    Star War's also has some bad shields in general... The EU books even show that in like manner of the movies. Pilots suffering a single hit by substandard Vong weapons and blown to bits...It happen consistently...all time.

    Jaina loosing her wing man in a flash as...rocks hit her space craft. Or the evil looking little grutchins just went right passed the shield and started munching on the star fighter hull....

    Even several Star Destroyers were eaten up by grutchins from the outside...once again slipping past the "shields" to much on anything and everything. Betcha never thought of Armor as eatable. Jaina and her flight had to burn them off with their fighter exhaust before the destroyer lost hull integrity and it was happening very very fast.

    Right down to the Lusankya Super Star Destroy the Domain of the Yuuzahn Vong...Wedge Antilles used it stead to pentrate the Domain and detonate it's core in order to destroy the Domain in Enemy Lines Part II This ship was so useless against Vong technology that they removed the ships turbo lasers before the suicide run and abandon it completely. Her manuverability was described as slow...lumbering and if the Vong could have manuvered their Domain...(Space Home) out of the way Lusankya would not be able to hit a target the size of a small moon.

    Previous:
    Lusankya executed a Base Delta Zero on the world Wedge was trying to hold, Borelias. The forrest were completely infested with Yuuzahn Vong...The forrest burned...but it did not slag the planet at all. Wedge was even done with the planet. Jaina's fighter flew through the turbo laser rain...(she wasn't supposed to be there)

    Where was the superior fire power? In no place in the EU has this fire power emerge as standard combat...

    Even the Center Point station was used as a last ditch attempt. Destroying 75% of the Hapes cluster fleet in one book.

    No...
    The conflict isn't with the EU and the Movies entirely its between the ICS books and the rest of Star Wars fandom.

    Sian...you've offered nothing but speculation as to why. My statements and findings stand firm. There are out right contradictions in firepower, shields and missiles. I know you think your speculations equate to canon but there not...they're far from it.

    As long as you continue to speculate that what the ICS is right as the most inferrior canon there is next to comic books I won't believe you with out proof.

    I followed the Yuuzahn Vong war from begining to End. They Vong had they're tricks but they did not have the explosive fire power anywhere in the range of what you'fe saying....Infact Star Wars in the EU completely harmonizes with the fire power seen in the movies...but when the numbers get put down on the paper...they don't match either.

    It's the ICS books that are the obvious problem.
    Last edited by Saquist; 03-06-07 at 09:02 AM.

  7. #3307
    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Do you deny that those domes had a critical role in the movies?
    I never said they weren't important for the story, no ... did I??

    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Then there is nothing but conflict with Star War's

    I've slowly be coming around to the perception that Star Trek on screen only policy is better than I once though.
    It probably is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    I can not believe the number of contradictions so far. Essentially you're saying we can believe just what ever we want...While Lucas Film seems to have made a stand on canon the contradictions abound.
    Don't believe - know.
    You go to church to believe.
    If you want to know, you go here

    The Imperial class terminology is another error most people who only watch the movies make, and has, sadly, also been kept alive by games and other sources. Although some LucasArts games to my understand have supported the Imperator-class terminology, although I can't seem to remember ever coming across it. I will have to check this up on day.
    Again, this was established as far back as 1978 that it is in fact an Imperator-class. WEG (I think they are the culpritt here, but I'm not totally sure, seem to remember something about it, but it's really irrelevant in the end) came up with another terminology, completely overlooking this fact. And back in those days these kind of things happened all the time. Only in more recent years have they been starting to get order over the Star Wars universe. For instance, it is now backed up that the Imperial star destroyer (the type we see in the movies, as all star destroyers in the Imperial Navy are Imperial) actually was called Imperator-class in the beginning, but the Emperor ordered that it be reclassed to Imperial-class. A half assed attempt (if you ask me) to try and save both terminologies. If they (the Holocron) had any balls they would have just outright went out and said it was an Imperator-class, end of story. But alas, we are stuck with 2 classifications for this particular vessel.

    Another error most people make, is that the Executor is a Super-class star destroyer. It is not. It's an Executor-class, so classed after the first ship leaving the shipyards, just like the Imperator was for the Imperator-class.
    Is it a super star destroyer? Yes. But so is the Vengeance in the Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight game, aswell as the Sovereign and the Eclipse.

    You really can't give a canon reason why they would target "sensor" domes can you. Same Question Jan...if you care to offer up anything canon.
    The evidence is there. You just need to want to find them.
    If you choose not to see them, then I can't help you.

    There. I've answered all of your questions, now get back to insulting eachother.

    *grabs popcorn and leans back*
    Last edited by Jan Gaarni; 03-06-07 at 05:14 PM.

  8. #3308
    Star's shields do not block objects...
    The ray shield and the particle shield are seperate.
    Star Destroyers don't have particle sields(Milllenium Falcon perches underneath a "sensor" dome.. Apparently neither did the first Death Star as the fighters simply flew through it.
    They do block objects.
    They are indeed seperate.
    Star Destroyers, and most other ships (if not all) do have partical shields. So does the Death Star.

    This all comes down to understanding how partical shields work. They are reactive. The faster an object goes thru them, the stronger it gets. It lets slowmoving ships and objects thru, and bounce away faster moving objects and ships which would damage the ship it protects.

  9. #3309

    Double Post

    Double Post
    Last edited by Jan Gaarni; 03-06-07 at 05:15 PM. Reason: Double Post

  10. #3310
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Defensively the Federation may or may not have anything to worry about. Star Wars while stating 200gigatons doesn't show it. Reading through all the EU and witnessing the lack of Megaton level damage in it's star fighters and ground forces....Star Wars is in heavy conflict with it's self.
    Incorrect. ESB: ISD vs asteroid. gigaton firepower required to produce effects seen on screen. Kiloton firepower from fighters demonstrated by Episode II geonosis slave-1 scene and Episode IV Luke strafing the death star.[/quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Every ground assault lacks any evidence of weapons of mass destruction. When the Republic could have rescued the survivors and nuked the Seditionist from orbit they engaged in a long drawn out ground battle exposing their captial ships to great harm by enemy forces.
    We have 3 movie examples of mass ground assault.

    ESB: Battle of Hoth: Theater shields used by the rebel alliance prevented bombardment until the shield generators were destroyed. By then, the rebel forces were in full retreat, and imperial forces were at what would be ground zero.

    AotC: Battle of Geonosis: This was primarily a rescue mission with most fleet assets staying in orbit to prevent escape of secessionist forces. Again, friendlies in close proximity prevent use of mass destruction.

    RotS: Battle of Kashyyyk: Secessionist forces attack Republic defenders backed up by native forces. neither side wants the planet for vast charcoal production.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Endor is Star War's greatest debacle. A Wookie and village of Ewoks with bows and arrows is the downfall of the imperial ground assault moral.
    A sneak attack from rebel commandos backed by large numbers of locals. When the defending Imperials pulled up their pants, they quickly got control of the situation, and would have won if not for Chewie's ATST-jacking, which broke their morale and eliminated their heavy support.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    The Planetary Shield

    One of the biggest difference in the Star Wars movie vs EU conflict is the Planetary shield. Begining in Clone Wars we see that the Seditionist penetrate straight to the surface...taken by surprise? No Mace Windu tells us that enemy ships continue to pour out of hyperspace. Coruscant is fully powered but...no shield at Coruscant.

    That premise is carried on into the Third movie where anakin takes the ship straigh to the surface and lands with out clearence for a shield perimeter.
    Did you read Labyrinth of Evil? No, of course not. The planetary shields were down due to sabotage. This is canon because it is not contradicted by the movie visuals or the novelization of the movie. Your argument is invalid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Every shield that stops concentrated light...(laser) is going to be graviton EM disturbance. Gravity is the only known force to block light in any form and EM is the only energy that works in a field...(gravity excluded). Both Star Trek and Star Gate shields block light and objects.
    You've already demonstrated your lack of scientific knowledge. Please keep digging your hole.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Star's shields do not block objects...
    The ray shield and the particle shield are seperate.
    Star Destroyers don't have particle sields(Milllenium Falcon perches underneath a "sensor" dome.. Apparently neither did the first Death Star as the fighters simply flew through it.
    Incorrect. I won't bother with any of the many examples, you seem unable to understand them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Star War's also has some bad shields in general... The EU books even show that in like manner of the movies. Pilots suffering a single hit by substandard Vong weapons and blown to bits...It happen consistently...all time.
    Prove Vong weapons are substandard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Previous:
    Lusankya executed a Base Delta Zero on the world Wedge was trying to hold, Borelias. The forrest were completely infested with Yuuzahn Vong...The forrest burned...but it did not slag the planet at all. Wedge was even done with the planet. Jaina's fighter flew through the turbo laser rain...(she wasn't supposed to be there)
    Was that a BDZ or simply an orbital bombardment? Do you even know? Lusankya was under republic command, and they don't even have a BDZ protocol. Operation Emperor's Hammer was simply a 4 minute orbital bombardment meant to destroy the Vong ground forces. you've proven nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    As long as you continue to speculate that what the ICS is right as the most inferrior canon there is next to comic books I won't believe you with out proof.
    You still don't understand the LFL canon hierarchy, do you? Amazing.

  11. #3311
    Registered Member
    Posts
    20

    Talking

    startrek has an edge by using telepathy. in other words, if somebody has telepathy they enter the minds of others and control thoughts. i remember reading about an instance where a cloaked ship was a pentrated by telepathy in startrek.

  12. #3312
    Registered Member
    Posts
    20

    Lightbulb

    jan gaarni is right. if the death star had a particle shield the falcan would not have pieced right beneath the scensor dome. Also the fighters would not have been able to fly through it. don't ignore the logic!
    Last edited by Spaceman; 03-07-07 at 02:11 AM.

  13. #3313
    Registered Member
    Posts
    20
    in case if nonbody knows, warp drive works by connecting to subspace, which is the area outside of time, space(which i believe is non-physical). in fact, physisists have determined that this method is consistent with theory of relativity.

  14. #3314
    Registered Member
    Posts
    20

    Lightbulb warp drive

    in case if nonbody knows, warp drive works by connecting to subspace, which is the area outside of time, space(which i believe is non-physical). in fact, physisists have determined that this method is consistent with theory of relativity.

  15. #3315
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Gaarni View Post
    I never said they weren't important for the story, no ... did I??
    I implied that you did because you assigned them a lower status (less important) based off schematics which as a Drafter, I know can change greatly from the design tot he finished product.

    It's logical to conclude that director or writers need a primary target to focus on for that shot and those purposes. They either did not consult the schematics or decided to change the schematics. The implication of directing is unavoidable the producers of the film has thus designated them shield generators.

    That's what I know.


    It probably is.


    Don't believe - know.
    You go to church to believe.
    (John 6: 66-69)
    "Will you turn away from from me also?"

    "Where will we go away to, you have saying of everlasting life...we have believed and have come to know that you are the chosen one of God."
    Since I intend to both sides justice I've yet to come to a concrete conclusion of Imperial technology assesment.



    The evidence is there. You just need to want to find them.
    If you choose not to see them, then I can't help you.
    I read all.

    There. I've answered all of your questions, now get back to insulting eachother.
    How do you explain the implications of the shield generators in the movie?
    Why are fighter shields fickeled in one scene and strong in the next?
    What does angle the deflector shield mean?
    Are they're any canon refrences to Astromechs lowering power of fighter weapons?
    Are they're any canon refrences to those droid taking initiative control of weapon systems?
    Is there any cannon reasons why the naboo star fighter was taken down in one hit by a tank?
    Weak fire power is substaniated by the EU does that make EU irrelevant?




    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    Incorrect. ESB: ISD vs asteroid. gigaton firepower required to produce effects seen on screen. Kiloton firepower from fighters demonstrated by Episode II geonosis slave-1 scene and Episode IV Luke strafing the death star.
    Statement Inconclussive:
    You've only proven that the evidence is subject to perspective.


    ESB: Battle of Hoth: Theater shields used by the rebel alliance prevented bombardment until the shield generators were destroyed. By then, the rebel forces were in full retreat, and imperial forces were at what would be ground zero.
    Statement Omitted
    You're leaving out that those walkers walked through the energy shield protecting Echo base.

    AotC: Battle of Geonosis: This was primarily a rescue mission with most fleet assets staying in orbit to prevent escape of secessionist forces. Again, friendlies in close proximity prevent use of mass destruction.
    Statement of Ground Battle AotC
    Irrelevant to superior tactics...Superior tactics dicate air assault was a propper response.


    RotS: Battle of Kashyyyk: Secessionist forces attack Republic defenders backed up by native forces. neither side wants the planet for vast charcoal production.
    Irrelevant.


    A sneak attack from rebel commandos backed by large numbers of locals. When the defending Imperials pulled up their pants, they quickly got control of the situation, and would have won if not for Chewie's ATST-jacking, which broke their morale and eliminated their heavy support.
    Statement of the Obvious
    Irrelevant: Ewoks defeated Imperial superiority. Is it your assesment that this statement is false?

    Did you read Labyrinth of Evil? No, of course not. The planetary shields were down due to sabotage. This is canon because it is not contradicted by the movie visuals or the novelization of the movie. Your argument is invalid.
    Lack of Evidence:
    Direct quote needed.

    You've already demonstrated your lack of scientific knowledge. Please keep digging your hole
    .
    Incredulous and unsuported.


    Prove Vong weapons are substandard.
    I will provide evidence of direct contradictions. I have every book. I have already highlighted the necessary quotes.

    In the EU New Jedi Order
    X- Wing weapons are described as lasers and beams
    Vong weapons are desribed as rock missles propelled by plasma and plasma geysers as the main defense for Cruiser analogs and escourt analogs.

    The EU never calls any weapon on the New Republic or Galactic Alliance or the Imperial Remenant as plasma based. They are desribed strictly as energy weapons...


    Was that a BDZ or simply an orbital bombardment? Do you even know? Lusankya was under republic command, and they don't even have a BDZ protocol.
    Operation Emperor's Hammer was simply a 4 minute orbital bombardment meant to destroy the Vong ground forces. you've proven nothing.

    Unfortuantly Wedge Confirms that he is breaking New Repbulic Protocol, confirming that this was liken to BDZ...even if this wasn't a full execution.

    The description is appropriate...No explosions just burning vegetation. If you don't trust me I'll pull the text myself tommorrow night. I have it refrenced and highlighted. There was no mention of turning down the weapons...they couldn't... they had to make sure ratamaks were killed as well as they were very resistant to fighter lasers and light sabers...

    low power options on star fighters are called stutter fire in all the EU New Jedi Order books. It's a tactic used with Yuuzahn Vong to trick their dovin basal.

    So let me make this clear: There is no representation of GIGATON or GIGAWATT FIRE POWER in Star FIghter lasers or Star ships in the EU NEW JEDI ORDER books.

    Mega ton...maybe. SUre why not.

    I've read Star Wars books sporadicly over time and the New Jedi Order was a concentrated effort. And don't bother posting that excerpt a bout vaporizing a small time...it's about as speculative as one can get when it comes to the words vaporize and small town...

    Alot of Timothy Zahns books made that list and other Authors as well

    Prefferablly you'll keep your mouth shut like you have been. Having your own arguement turned back on you seems as effective a mute button on you.

    So while you can speculate to your hearts content the EU is written in words and neither of you can manipulate meanings unless the author is clearly not leaning on a analogy.

    You still don't understand the LFL canon hierarchy, do you? Amazing.[/QUOTE]

    considering the amount of speculation and taking you as an example, if I don't understand LFL, is there any wonder why? You've failed to be consistent or truthful...these transgressions can easily lead to confusion.

    Perhaps if you would keep to one understanding of the LFL and not string it along for your own purposes then it would be more clear.
    Last edited by Saquist; 03-07-07 at 12:00 PM.

  16. #3316
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post
    in case if nonbody knows, warp drive works by connecting to subspace, which is the area outside of time, space(which i believe is non-physical). in fact, physisists have determined that this method is consistent with theory of relativity.
    Warp drive

    Is a contruction of a universe within a universe. The warp bubble exist within but independent from the expansion of our universe. The expansion of our universe has been rated at higher speeds than light it's self... Star Trek susposes that while one universe is expanding faster than the warp bubble that it's exerting preasure on the warp bubble because the expansion of the warp bubble as a universe is much lower.

    Because mathematics leads us to conclude that matter and energy are one and time and space are one...what you do to one side of the equation you must do to another.

    This is illistrated by the rate of speed equations T (Time) x D (distance)= V (velocity)

    Time and Distance...space/time... They are one.

    Thus...this equation says that to travel a certain distance....time must elapse.

    Then it must also be true...

    For time to elapse a distance must be traveled.

    The implications of this are simple...even when we're not moving something is because we experience time so a distance must be traveled.

    That something is the universe which is expanding "beneath" us. That expansion is driven my virtual particles coming into existence and mutally anhialating each other...creating the substance of space/time itself...

    Or merely driving space time forward.

  17. #3317
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    69
    And yet again you use a lot of words without actually proving your point anywhere, dismiss my hard evidence, and still offer none of your own. I don't owe you any further explanation. The proof is there.

  18. #3318
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post
    startrek has an edge by using telepathy. in other words, if somebody has telepathy they enter the minds of others and control thoughts. i remember reading about an instance where a cloaked ship was a pentrated by telepathy in startrek.
    And Star Wars doesn't have telepaths? Additionally, cloaks in Star Wars are truly impenetrable to sensors, in both directions, except possibly by telepathy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post
    jan gaarni is right. if the death star had a particle shield the falcan would not have pieced right beneath the scensor dome. Also the fighters would not have been able to fly through it. don't ignore the logic!
    Particle shielding is known to be permeable by low-danger, low-impulse objects, kind of like personal shields in Dune. Theater shielding can also be penetrated by slow moving, grounded objects, shown directly in Episode I, and implied by the AT-AT walkers in Episode V. Particle shielding on ships in SW is hull-hugging, effectively strengthening the underlying armor and not creating an invisible barrier. Energy shielding is also hull-hugging, but produces an interference layer a distance from its surface which causes the 'flak bursts' and other visual phenomena.

  19. #3319
    Minister of Technology
    Posts
    4,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post
    in case if nonbody knows, warp drive works by connecting to subspace, which is the area outside of time, space(which i believe is non-physical). in fact, physisists have determined that this method is consistent with theory of relativity.
    Actually that is not the Warp theory that is presented most. The one that has the most credibility in effect and description is what i like to call the "Tunneling method." Warp drive disassemble the fabric of space-time in front of the vessel which in turn falls into that hole while at the same time reassembling space behind them. Speed is attained by diassembling space faster and faster with theoretically no upper limit if you have unlimited power and computing ability, but sorely limited if ou don't have an abundance of either.

  20. #3320
    Minister of Technology
    Posts
    4,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post
    jan gaarni is right. if the death star had a particle shield the falcan would not have pieced right beneath the scensor dome. Also the fighters would not have been able to fly through it. don't ignore the logic!
    Particle shielding is either scant nanometers form the hull or running through the hull. Either way it is designed for faster moving particles and or larger ones.

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