View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #3121
    As far as the debate, without the time travel, I think SW would have an edge using the Sun Crusher.

  2. #3122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    It certainly throws the "TeraWatt" theory out the door.
    It proves Scooter doesn't know much about real material science, and is dishonest , as he has to distort canon visual results (claim the asteroid wasn't vaporized, when it clearly was, and that it was a snowball, which it clearly wasn't, and that it was smaller than the lower limit of screen evidence) to 'prove' his theories. I'm sorry but your source for 'calculations' has already been thoroughly debunked (by real PhDs and engineers) since at least 2003.

    Actually Brian Young's calculations are very conservative on this, and definitely low end. Regardless, the ICS volumes are canon and explicitly state the older and smaller Venator's HTLs at 400 gigatons per shot, and the even older and even smaller TROOP TRANSPORTS at 200GT. There's just no valid argument against that. (Except for Scooter who wrongly thinks that only the movies are canon!) The ISD I's with the bigger turret guns should at least match and probably exceed this, as the Venator is more of a fighter carrier than a line ship. ISDII's may have less than 400GT per gun, but then they're more tuned against the Rebel threat of smaller ships (Frigates and smaller) which are handily owned by smaller weapons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    But Scotty, dear, Scotty....It's okay . The answer is already apparent. You think George Lucas is wrong. (gasp) You believe in what is.......noncannon.

    You clearly can't even manage to understand what canon is or isn't (or how to spell it), as your buddy Darkstar needs to ignore canon for his stupid ideas to not instantly look like the BS that they are. You can continue denying the facts or admit that you were wrong. Either way, you lose.

  3. #3123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Thus if the if the creator says there lasers then Lasers they are.
    they are, they're is also acceptable.

    the creator says they are CALLED lasers. There's an important difference, but I expect you couldn't grasp that subtlety with your limited command of the English language.

  4. #3124
    who's Scooter?
    snow ball?

    I'm sorry but your source for 'calculations' has already been thoroughly debunked (by real PhDs and engineers) since at least 2003.
    Actually his calcuations are good from what I can tell and you shouldn't call yourself 'sorry'. We all have bad days. But I asure you your "good word" hasn't persuaed me in the least in the absence of any evidence.

    Actually though I've read that Lucas said that the EU is seperate from the films.

    You clearly can't even manage to understand what canon is or isn't (or how to spell it), as your buddy Darkstar needs to ignore canon for his stupid ideas to not instantly look like the BS that they are. You can continue denying the facts or admit that you were wrong. Either way, you lose.
    So does that mean you think Lucas is wrong or right about "lasers"

    Let me tell you what's clear...it's clear you don't want to answer that question
    It's clear you're evading the question
    It's clear your diet consist of steady stream of BS
    It's clear you believe everything that tickles your ear.
    It's clear your'e afraid of holding a real conversation
    It's clear you're hiding behind petty insults to disguise just how much you don't know.
    It's clear you're repeating the same dogma you and Scott hear from Wong.
    It's clear you're incapable of objectivity of any kind
    It's clear you're only intrested in name calling and hosing down the forums with as much testosterone as you can piss through your keyboard.
    It's clear you're here to show off what your know only to reveal the extent of the void between your ears.
    It's clear time deepens your ignorance (which is frankly astounding)
    It's clear you and Scott can't resist the bait of a mizpellet wort.
    It's clear your a hypocrite and It's clear that Scott is your lying, other half.
    It's clear since you won't answer the question that you consider only what comes out of your own mouth...in short it's clear you're a Star Wars fan.


    You give them a bad name.
    Now would you like to try again?
    Last edited by Saquist; 02-09-07 at 03:00 PM.

  5. #3125
    Quote Originally Posted by Sian View Post
    they are, they're is also acceptable.

    the creator says they are CALLED lasers. There's an important difference, but I expect you couldn't grasp that subtlety with your limited command of the English language.
    You're right....

    Como se llamo
    Ich heisse...


    I totally don't see the difference especially since you said they're not lasers even though the creator called them lasers.

    You seem to be changing your story...Ohhh I like to see a dog chase it's tail.

  6. #3126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Actually his calcuations are good from what I can tell and you shouldn't call yourself 'sorry'. We all have bad days. But I asure you your "good word" hasn't persuaed me in the least in the absence of any evidence.
    They aren't, and even if they WERE, ICS canon overrides anything poor Darkstar can fabricate. This is not open to debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Actually though I've read that Lucas said that the EU is seperate from the films.
    I can't make this any clearer. Star Wars canon is clearly defined. Darkstar's numbers depend on ignoring this fact. Again, no more debate here. Lucas has an official canon policy, and you're ignoring it. Suck it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    So does that mean you think Lucas is wrong or right about "lasers"
    Lucas is right. Turbolasers have 'lasers' in their name. Even though they aren't lasers. Is that a problem? Is your brain too small to understand that a living language retains archaic terms?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Let me tell you what's clear...it's clear you don't want to answer that question
    It's clear you just don't want to admit you're wrong, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. You're ignoring well defined, documented Lucas canon policy. Period. You Lose. I don't have enough posts to attach links, so just google 'lucas canon policy' for the asswhupping of your lifetime.

  7. #3127
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    http://www.morningstar.nildram.co.uk/A_New_Sith.html

    this is a funny read.

    as for my part here, startrek has far more WMDs than starwars.

    ill count them and their destructave potential.

    starwars
    DSI, planetary, laser, built by the Empire
    DSII, planetary, laser, built by the Empire
    prototype DS, planetary, laser, built by the Empire
    Suncrusher, System, projective, Built by the Empire
    Centerpoint, planetary, gravitational, Built by ?

    Startrek
    trilithium missile, system, molecular, built by a guy in a garage.
    subspace weapon's', system or sector of space, subspace, built by 3rd galactical races and openly employed in combat.
    theleron radiaton, system, molecular, Built by the Reamans,
    Chronitron Torpedoe's', effect as little as a micron, or entire star systems and history, time based, built by a technologicaly advanced race in the D-Quadrant, sued to wipe out entire races.
    Temporal Weapon's', same as Chronitron Torpedoes, but energy based.
    Tricobalt Torepdoe's' type I, moon, subspace disruption, Built and employed by the federation for use agaisnt soft targets,
    Tricobalt Torpedoe's' type II, large sheilding, subspace disruption, used by the federation to take down sheilds.
    Harvester's', epedemic, bio weapon, built by T'ellani, used to decimate populations.
    Mutagenic Retroviruses, epedemic, bio weapon, made in a lab by weaponsmiths.
    Trilithium Resin, epedemic, bio weapon, produced as a side effect of matter/animatter.
    Pure anti-proton beam, planetary, energy, the Doomsday machine had one such weapon.
    Isolytic Burst, system/sector, subspace, built by the Sona.
    Xindi superweapon 1, planetary, energy, built by the Xindi races
    Xindi superweapon 2, planetary, energy, built by the Xindi races
    Xindi superweapon 3, planetary, energy, built by the Xindi races

    as we see here, there is a wider and greater range of superweapons in the ST universe. the types range from bio to subspace, and most are mass produced, or can be.

  8. #3128
    They aren't, and even if they WERE, ICS canon overrides anything poor Darkstar can fabricate. This is not open to debate.
    Like I said your slanderous word is no good. You need find yourself a link. If you hadn't treated me with about as much respect as a redhead step child maybe your word would be worth more than a peso.

    I can't make this any clearer. Star Wars canon is clearly defined. Darkstar's numbers depend on ignoring this fact. Again, no more debate here. Lucas has an official canon policy, and you're ignoring it. Suck it up.
    Clearly defined and yet theres that statement hanging in the air.
    Suck it up.
    How can I when you're so good at Blowing.

    Lucas is right. Turbolasers have 'lasers' in their name. Even though they aren't lasers. Is that a problem? Is your brain too small to understand that a living language retains archaic terms?
    So they are just lasers? Finally some clarity amist the BS.

    It's clear you just don't want to admit you're wrong, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. You're ignoring well defined, documented Lucas canon policy. Period. You Lose. I don't have enough posts to attach links, so just google 'lucas canon policy' for the asswhupping of your lifetime.

    So what...I've done more research on Star Wars and read more books than you hands down....I'm a true Star Wars fan...I"m a Sci Fi fan...A dying breed that really appreciates good sci fi.

  9. #3129
    Quote Originally Posted by HiND-SIGHT View Post
    http://www.morningstar.nildram.co.uk/A_New_Sith.html

    this is a funny read.

    as for my part here, startrek has far more WMDs than starwars.

    ill count them and their destructave potential.

    starwars
    DSI, planetary, laser, built by the Empire
    DSII, planetary, laser, built by the Empire
    prototype DS, planetary, laser, built by the Empire
    Suncrusher, System, projective, Built by the Empire
    Centerpoint, planetary, gravitational, Built by ?

    Startrek
    trilithium missile, system, molecular, built by a guy in a garage.
    subspace weapon's', system or sector of space, subspace, built by 3rd galactical races and openly employed in combat.
    theleron radiaton, system, molecular, Built by the Reamans,
    Chronitron Torpedoe's', effect as little as a micron, or entire star systems and history, time based, built by a technologicaly advanced race in the D-Quadrant, sued to wipe out entire races.
    Temporal Weapon's', same as Chronitron Torpedoes, but energy based.
    Tricobalt Torepdoe's' type I, moon, subspace disruption, Built and employed by the federation for use agaisnt soft targets,
    Tricobalt Torpedoe's' type II, large sheilding, subspace disruption, used by the federation to take down sheilds.
    Harvester's', epedemic, bio weapon, built by T'ellani, used to decimate populations.
    Mutagenic Retroviruses, epedemic, bio weapon, made in a lab by weaponsmiths.
    Trilithium Resin, epedemic, bio weapon, produced as a side effect of matter/animatter.
    Pure anti-proton beam, planetary, energy, the Doomsday machine had one such weapon.
    Isolytic Burst, system/sector, subspace, built by the Sona.
    Xindi superweapon 1, planetary, energy, built by the Xindi races
    Xindi superweapon 2, planetary, energy, built by the Xindi races
    Xindi superweapon 3, planetary, energy, built by the Xindi races

    as we see here, there is a wider and greater range of superweapons in the ST universe. the types range from bio to subspace, and most are mass produced, or can be.


    You forgot one special bit of weaponary sure to blow a star in oblivion...
    DS9's Protomatter (that's right the Genesis device) Trilyithium resin explosive

  10. #3130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Lucas is right. Turbolasers have 'lasers' in their name. Even though they aren't lasers. Is that a problem? Is your brain too small to understand that a living language retains archaic terms?
    So they are just lasers? Finally some clarity amist the BS.


    You're an idiot.

  11. #3131
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    30
    Saquist, turbolasers use laser technology, somehow, but the weapon is just charged gas wrapped around light, wich for lack of scientific study, happen to travel at sub-lightspeed, and do destructive damage far beyond what they should.

    blame lucas. im a director, not a scientist. hes the idiot who gave everybody permission to contradict eachother.

    i have an idea, lets start the war and simulate what will happen.

    projection; starwars invades startrek. the opposite would never happen.

    the Empire circa ANH launches an assault of 1/5th their fleet, 5000 star destroyers and multiple thousands of suportships. that leaves a substantial force in reserve for support or defense, while providing a good chunk of offensive power. since hyperdrive routes need to be scouted in order not to lose ships, lets say that a jump like this would result in the loss of half their force, wich is a gratuitous number, the ST galaxy has more astronomical phenomena than the SW galaxy. we now have a force of 2500 star destroyers, and their support ships, wich may equate to be less than half of the original number, the smaller vessels are more unlucky it seems. lacking repair facilities and ways to refuel, id say they have about 3 months of operating time before they jump back.

    lets say the above is stage 1,

    the following is now stage 2.

    these ships are in unmapped territory, scouting HS routes and slowly mapping out their surroundings. since they dont want to waste resources, the bulk of the force stays put, while a few scout ships go forth. due to the nature of HS, their presence is noted and ST ships go forth to find them. the Borg, and their quest for technology would send a scout ship, probably a cube, to investiate. their cube runs into a scout, probably a carrick frigate, and assimilates it, while the carrick reports borg contact to the main fleet.

    at stage 3

    we have the Borg and the Empire alert to one another. with the new technology and knowledge, the borg begin to adapt and find ways to counter SW technology, while the empire prepaires to defend the fleet. im thinking the empire would find some planet and transfer the ground battalions there and sets up a base.

    at stage 4

    the borg make adaptaions and begin an assualt comprising of a rough figure of 1000 cubes, wich may or may not happen, but the number is possible. the new technology is possibly anti hyperspace anti TL and anti Sheilds. the borg would know the exact number of vessels thad their exact capability. the empire would have the basic size and information on a cube, and possible weapons.

    stage 5

    the borg start homing in on the fleet, taking out patrols and scouts on the way. the formation would probably be a split formation, coming in from all sides, the Empire would order a preimptive strike, wich is i think probable. so we have maybe 45 stardestroyers trying to put a break in the Borg blockade. with the new adaptations, the borg assimilate 35 stardestroyers while the remaining 10 are half destroyed and the other 5 retreat.

    stage 6,

    the empire fearing the worse, makes a stand. they would not retreat, because they fear giving the enemy the location of their origin is to great a cost. the borg attack, and the Giant Cubes fly through the ISD formation, and assimilate on the fly. for effeciency, some of the borg will attack the ground garrisons, and start processing new drones.

    stage 7, maybe a few dozen stardestroyers escape to make blind HS jumps, probably 5 or so make it. the rest of the fleet is assimilated, and the material is used to make more borg vessels.

  12. #3132
    Minister of Technology
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiND-SIGHT View Post
    Saquist, turbolasers use laser technology, somehow, but the weapon is just charged gas wrapped around light, wich for lack of scientific study, happen to travel at sub-lightspeed, and do destructive damage far beyond what they should.

    blame lucas. im a director, not a scientist. hes the idiot who gave everybody permission to contradict eachother.
    Before you call some one an idiot you should be prepared to performa similiar feat to them. Since I highly doubt you could create an entire fictional universe loved by Billions, you have no room to say anything.

    i have an idea, lets start the war and simulate what will happen.
    I have presented this idea before, nobody on Trek side even wanted to play when I upgunned Star Trek.

    projection; starwars invades startrek. the opposite would never happen.
    Site proof the opposite would never happen. Oh that's right you have none becuase it does not exist.

    the Empire circa ANH launches an assault of 1/5th their fleet, 5000 star destroyers and multiple thousands of suportships. that leaves a substantial force in reserve for support or defense, while providing a good chunk of offensive power. since hyperdrive routes need to be scouted in order not to lose ships, lets say that a jump like this would result in the loss of half their force, wich is a gratuitous number, the ST galaxy has more astronomical phenomena than the SW galaxy. we now have a force of 2500 star destroyers, and their support ships, wich may equate to be less than half of the original number, the smaller vessels are more unlucky it seems. lacking repair facilities and ways to refuel, id say they have about 3 months of operating time before they jump back.
    Site proof that Star Trek has more spatial phenomena. Or that it is more dangerous.


    these ships are in unmapped territory, scouting HS routes and slowly mapping out their surroundings. since they dont want to waste resources, the bulk of the force stays put, while a few scout ships go forth. due to the nature of HS, their presence is noted and ST ships go forth to find them. the Borg, and their quest for technology would send a scout ship, probably a cube, to investiate. their cube runs into a scout, probably a carrick frigate, and assimilates it, while the carrick reports borg contact to the main fleet.
    Now this is a half way logical assumption, until you realize that they don't need to map space, they only need to find a friendly trader and basically download or buy stellar charts. Now if they do use Carrack Strike cruisers to scout, those ships are still carrying 4 Light Turbo Lasers with about 50% of the firepower of a Heavy TurboLaser or in the range of 26,162,500,000,000,000,000,000 joules for 1/15 second bursts per weapon. Each of these weapons is equivalent to the simultaneous firing of 2,491,666,666,666+ Phaser X for one second. If we assume an Average of Ten Strips per ship that is the effect of 249,166,666,667 ships firing for one second. Now in First Contact a defense fleet of around 30 ships had a Borg Cube nearly crippled before they were down to their last handful. Despite the Borg knowing about Modulated Frequency weapons and Quantum Torpedoes. What would be the effect of almost 2 and a half trillion ships worth of phasers? What would be the effect of almost 10 trillion ships worth of phasers? BTW the Enterprise D with 12 Phaser X strips would have to fire continously for 6,579 years 8 months (Earth standard of course) to put out the same level of firepower as one Light Turbolaser.

    Not to mention that if it is charting space the moment a Borg cube appears it can hyperjump back to the fleet.

    As you can see the rest of you supposed scenario revolves around something according the Star Wars and Star Trek canon as likely as a Homo Sapiens surviving in the center of our Sun with nothing but what they were born with.
    Last edited by TW Scott; 02-10-07 at 11:15 AM.

  13. #3133
    Minister of Technology
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Thus if the if the creator says there lasers then Lasers they are.
    He NEVER says they are lasers. For all the information we are given it's a brandname, military slang, or codename. You don't think that a "Ma Deuce" is some ones mother just based on what it's called do you?


    On the neutronium front I've just been alerted that in Star Wars neutronium was discovered on a moon in veins like ordinary iron or nickel ore. It seems clear that this is certainly not the stuff of nuetron stars.
    This was actually discussed and it was discovered in a vein, but the discovery was unusual according to canon. Especially since it was discovered in massive veins on a moon with all the other makings of DuraSteel in almost the direct proportions. Did your source point out this either. Did they point out that the characters thought it could be the site of some ancient crash or smelting accident>

    I am busted every time If I trust TWScott, huh? You weren't going to volenteer this information were ya? Yeah don't even bother!
    Actually I left it out as nowhere else did they speak of nuetronium mining, anywhere. So like anyone of reasonable intelligence I just dismissed it as an anomaly.

  14. #3134
    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Thus if the if the creator says there lasers then Lasers they are.
    He has never said they were lasers, he just calls them that.
    Like I said before, he's a simpleton when it comes to technical stuff, he don't care how it works, as long as it works. He leaves that up to others to explain, and they have.

    Like I said already, there are no choosing here.
    Personal opinion has no say, unless it's backed up by canon, which in this case, it's not.

  15. #3135
    A lot of information regarding turbolasers.

    stardestroyer.net/tlc/

  16. #3136

    New Guy

    Hey guys I’m new. I can’t believe some of you have been arguing this literally for years! I actually like Star Trek more. But I’m not willing to place my bets just yet. I just found that mars13 character really funny and I had to sign up

  17. #3137
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Before you call some one an idiot you should be prepared to performa similiar feat to them. Since I highly doubt you could create an entire fictional universe loved by Billions, you have no room to say anything.
    billions? more like one and cloned him.....


    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Site proof the opposite would never happen. Oh that's right you have none becuase it does not exist.
    you fucking idiot, i said simulate...not freakin quote canon, simulations are not canon to beginwith, so we minaswell stop right now.



    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Site proof that Star Trek has more spatial phenomena. Or that it is more dangerous.
    site proof me wrong. as far as ive read, there is a lacking of spatial phenomena, as there is no reference to it. so it must not exist. canon is what exists, no canon, no spatial phenomena. its like saying TLs are all powerful, and are meausred in yota joules, when they are not.




    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Now this is a half way logical assumption, until you realize that they don't need to map space, they only need to find a friendly trader and basically download or buy stellar charts. Now if they do use Carrack Strike cruisers to scout, those ships are still carrying 4 Light Turbo Lasers with about 50% of the firepower of a Heavy TurboLaser or in the range of 26,162,500,000,000,000,000,000 joules for 1/15 second bursts per weapon. Each of these weapons is equivalent to the simultaneous firing of 2,491,666,666,666+ Phaser X for one second. If we assume an Average of Ten Strips per ship that is the effect of 249,166,666,667 ships firing for one second. Now in First Contact a defense fleet of around 30 ships had a Borg Cube nearly crippled before they were down to their last handful. Despite the Borg knowing about Modulated Frequency weapons and Quantum Torpedoes. What would be the effect of almost 2 and a half trillion ships worth of phasers? What would be the effect of almost 10 trillion ships worth of phasers? BTW the Enterprise D with 12 Phaser X strips would have to fire continously for 6,579 years 8 months (Earth standard of course) to put out the same level of firepower as one Light Turbolaser.
    your power level for a medeum TL is not canon, your calc is in zeta joules, prove this right. do you know the exact number of ships in 001 in FC? your lies will be ingored, correct the data, recalc, quote scource, you want to do this you get to play the game of qouting too Scott. give me a canon source that states the powerlevel for a medeum TL. and try to find the dimensions of Alderran. i want to know that.

    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Not to mention that if it is charting space the moment a Borg cube appears it can hyperjump back to the fleet.
    ever hear of tractor beams? and im sorry, but i have yet to see an iota of Imperial Intellegence.

    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    As you can see the rest of you supposed scenario revolves around something according the Star Wars and Star Trek canon as likely as a Homo Sapiens surviving in the center of our Sun with nothing but what they were born with.
    yeah i know that, its like imperial monkeys trying to defeat the rebellion! so close, but something cant work out. care to qoute the reasons they failed to decimate the rebellion? i mean, the large Imperial Navy and their high tech weapons, their numerious troops and fighters, cant route out a few thousand rebels? they have problems man! and if they cant use their might to route out the rebellion, try routing out that many starships.

    i want to get to the bottom of phasers. are phasers the ion cannons of starwars lore? phaser cannons produce 500 gigajoules, what do phaser 12s put out? do ion cannon pierce SW sheilding?

    and remember hand phaser = mounted SW laser canons. :P

    and HI Cit001. i hope you know your episodes boy.

  18. #3138
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    Quote Originally Posted by linkcma View Post
    A lot of information regarding turbolasers.

    stardestroyer.net/tlc/
    nice, total non canon bullshit, cannon is a movie or book, not theorized data by someone who miscalcualted twice. they dont even know what can cause the blast..the conjecture here is because of G. Lucas's lack of attention to scientific study. the conjecture in this forum is also the result of that. GL said 'grape banana', and all of the fanboys tried to figure out how the grape bannana was made, when it cant exist. GL gave them canon status too.....wich is a good demonstration of Starwars Intelligence. 'hey you are all fools following me! and im the king of fools' or 'whos really the fool, the fool or the person who follows him?'

  19. #3139
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiND-SIGHT View Post
    you fucking idiot, i said simulate...not freakin quote canon, simulations are not canon to beginwith, so we minaswell stop right now.
    So it's all imaginary and numbers don't matter. Unfortunately for you, science fiction is defined by internal consistency, where the numbers have to make sense within the bounds of the universe they're portrayed in. This encourages hard analysis of the technology portrayed in these stories.



    Quote Originally Posted by HiND-SIGHT View Post
    site proof me wrong. as far as ive read, there is a lacking of spatial phenomena, as there is no reference to it. so it must not exist. canon is what exists, no canon, no spatial phenomena. its like saying TLs are all powerful, and are meausred in yota joules, when they are not.
    So Star Trek is more advanced because they have more unexplained spacial phenomenon? The vast majority of the Star Wars galaxy (With at least twice the stars of Trek's Milky Way) has been almost fully explored, and its phenomenon understood. As below mention as finding a new storm on the earth. It's already been studied to death. Your lack of understanding of canon is pitiful. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. (I can't believe I just said that.)

    Quote Originally Posted by HiND-SIGHT View Post
    your power level for a medeum TL is not canon, your calc is in zeta joules, prove this right. do you know the exact number of ships in 001 in FC? your lies will be ingored, correct the data, recalc, quote scource, you want to do this you get to play the game of qouting too Scott. give me a canon source that states the powerlevel for a medeum TL. and try to find the dimensions of Alderran. i want to know that.
    calculated Medium TL firepower is right in line with known canon levels for heavier and lighter weapons using the same technology. Alderann has a 5500KM diameter, according to LFL approved books. Really, you can do this research yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by HiND-SIGHT View Post
    ever hear of tractor beams? and im sorry, but i have yet to see an iota of Imperial Intellegence.
    The way I understand tractor beams, they don't counter momentum and thrust, they just hook the two ships together. So I guess we'd see how a borg cube deals with a few thousand gees of acceleration while being fired on with 400 gigaton plasma weapons.


    Quote Originally Posted by HiND-SIGHT View Post
    yeah i know that, its like imperial monkeys trying to defeat the rebellion! so close, but something cant work out. care to qoute the reasons they failed to decimate the rebellion? i mean, the large Imperial Navy and their high tech weapons, their numerious troops and fighters, cant route out a few thousand rebels? they have problems man! and if they cant use their might to route out the rebellion, try routing out that many starships.
    The mighty US military can't rout out a few thousand rebels or find caches of deadly weapons in Iraq. We're talking about a whole galaxy here. Much, much bigger scale, even if the Empire isn't playing by the same rules. Plus the Rebellion is well funded and well equipped, even by Imperial standards.

    Quote Originally Posted by HiND-SIGHT View Post
    i want to get to the bottom of phasers. are phasers the ion cannons of starwars lore? phaser cannons produce 500 gigajoules, what do phaser 12s put out? do ion cannon pierce SW sheilding?
    Only when powerful enough to batter the shields down through brute force (See Hoth). They do not bypass shielding.

    Quote Originally Posted by HiND-SIGHT View Post
    and remember hand phaser = mounted SW laser canons. :P
    Since when?

  20. #3140
    Minister of Technology
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiND-SIGHT View Post
    billions? more like one and cloned him.....
    And yet you can't even duplicate that...


    you fucking idiot, i said simulate...not freakin quote canon, simulations are not canon to beginwith, so we minaswell stop right now.
    If a simulation is not based on Canon then it is useless as a simulation. if we ignored canon the result is inaccurate. Why would you want a inaccurate comparasion?

    site proof me wrong. as far as ive read, there is a lacking of spatial phenomena, as there is no reference to it. so it must not exist. canon is what exists, no canon, no spatial phenomena. its like saying TLs are all powerful, and are meausred in yota joules, when they are not.
    Okay, Tarkins Maw, the Crystal Star, the use of gravitc sensors on ships to avoid rogue asteroids and wandering spatial anomalies, the comet belt around Cularin System... The reason you don't hear about more is that Star Wars is a story of conflict both internal and external. Star trek is just random wild thought of the week.

    your power level for a medeum TL is not canon, your calc is in zeta joules, prove this right. do you know the exact number of ships in 001 in FC? your lies will be ingored, correct the data, recalc, quote scource, you want to do this you get to play the game of qouting too Scott. give me a canon source that states the powerlevel for a medeum TL. and try to find the dimensions of Alderran. i want to know that.
    Okay Power Level of a Heavy TL 12.5 gigaton equivalent...16 cannons on the Star Wars Episode II Incredible Cross-Sections (SW2ICS) There is some argument that each turret of two outputs 200 gigatons, but my understanding is that the combined firepower of eight turrets is 200 gigatons. A position you might support.

    Light TL is roughly half as powerful as a Heavy TL, muliple sources inside Star Wars the very least of which includes the Star Wars d20 RPG which by Lucasfilm standards is Canon as nowhere does it directly dispute the movies. So 6.25 gigaton equivalent

    Joules coversion= 6.25 gigatons TNT Equivalent*1,000 calories per gram of TNT*4.186 joules per calorie

    Alderaan has a diamet of 5500 km according to Wikipedia and Wookiepedia. With a gravity of 40% galatic standard. This does make Alderaan much smaller than Earth, less than quarter the size, but I doubt very much that this makes the Death Stars main weapon any less powerful than theorized as Alderaan was very energetically destroyed despite the plenetary shielding.

    ever hear of tractor beams? and im sorry, but i have yet to see an iota of Imperial Intellegence.
    Star Wars does have Tractor Beams as well. However I am factoring in the usual Borg delay. It takes them several minutes to decide what to do about a target, if anything. In that time the Imperial Commander has decided to fight or flight.


    yeah i know that, its like imperial monkeys trying to defeat the rebellion! so close, but something cant work out. care to qoute the reasons they failed to decimate the rebellion? i mean, the large Imperial Navy and their high tech weapons, their numerious troops and fighters, cant route out a few thousand rebels? they have problems man! and if they cant use their might to route out the rebellion, try routing out that many starships.
    Excuse me but the Rebellion against the Empire had the exact same advanced technology. They had similiar starships and were more than just a few thousand people. Each of those Mon Cal cruisers has a crew of 5,402 and 1200 troops, Nebulan B Frigates have crews of 307 to 920 plus 75 troops, Corellian Corvettes have 30 to 165 and carry 300 troops, and Imperial Intelligence suggested that the Rebellion had thousands of capital ships.

    i want to get to the bottom of phasers. are phasers the ion cannons of starwars lore? phaser cannons produce 500 gigajoules, what do phaser 12s put out? do ion cannon pierce SW sheilding?
    Completely different animal, well not completely different. A Star Wars Ion Cannon could be fired directly at an asteroid and do all of squat, they are more of an EMP weapon in effect. A Star Trek Phaser uses a Nadion emision to effect solid matter. As for shield peircing, Star Trek Phasers show a decided weakness to shielding or even stray radiation.

    Phaser Cannons use 500 gigajoules they never say what their destructive out put is or the efficency. Another problem is that later in the time line (TNG:Survivors) a 400 gigawatt (translates to 400 gigajoules) blast was enough to knock the Enterprises sheilds down, then the second completely oblitereated the shields and any hope of having them up soon as well as melting some of the hull, the third knocked all the weapons off line, this is a source of massive indescrepancy.

    Given that the closes we can get to Star Trek Canon on a figure for Phaser X is from the online gaming site ACTD:Starfleet and it calims 10.5 gigawatts output for Phaser X's and 12.5 gigawatts for Phaser XII's and this seems to make sense with the aforementioned ~400 gigawatt shields.

    Star Trek kind of screwed itself over.

    BTW for those interested. 500 gigajoules=1.194 kilotons of TNT equivalent

    and remember hand phaser = mounted SW laser canons. :P
    Cite proof my friend. Not only that I want you to remeber to qualify what type of mounted SW Lasers.

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