View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #3021
    Minister of Technology
    Posts
    4,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    I looked, you only provided your word.
    But I haven't claimed victory, have I?
    Oh well I guess I might as well, you've go no evidence, anyway.
    Oh, so I guess, in your world, simplified scientific calculations based on observed phenomena is nothing.
    In your world, Creater's and Owner's definaition of canon is biased if it does not agree with you.
    In your world Inforamtion gather from canon sources is of course invalid.

    Good thing we are not in your world.



    [IMG][/IMG]

    Obviously this is more.
    More of kiloton artillary taking out a Federation Trade battleship. Now dismissing the complete lack of shields.

    The armor excuse goes right out the door. But I don't dismiss the shields. I believe they're there. Star wars has no rule on shield impacts being visible. These collasal ships were brought down by kiloton level fire.

    Nothing on the scale of Hiroshima but all the same 4 or 5 kilotons. That's just a guess though

    [IMG][/IMG]

    Those shots clearly penetrated. We see there ground effects in the Clone Wars Cartoon. No blast...just a simple beam weapon. Phasers and Quantum torpedos would carve these ships up like roast DUCK.

    [IMG][/IMG]

    And these ships are huge...there goes the neutroninum theory. Neutronium would practicaly invulnerable to .....everything....No amount of weapon power less than the Death Star exploding could damage it.

    More fiction from the Star Wars camp. Or should I say...Fantasy.
    [/QUOTE]

    I might add this all conjecture on your part and there fore invalid. The beam weapon on this platforms are Artillery pieces, anti starship artillery, obviously. The design reflects this as the piece does not seem to be for any sort of ground support. (who uses a direct fire beam for Indirect fire support) Now as the ships they are firing on are converted Federation Frieghters I would not expect them to be as heavily armored as a Star Destroyer or even a Corvette. Now, since the main reactors are in the ring sections I would imagine that is where you will find shield generators. Finally novel canon has stated several times that there is nuetronium in the DuraArmor hulls of warships. This is not disputed by any movie and is therefore canon, unlike your estimation for the firepower of the Anti Starship artillery blasts.

    By the way I will point that even a 4.5 kiloton blast is more than enough firepower to Destory the shields of a Federation Galaxy Class Starship several times over. So even if your right, you still lose.

  2. #3022
    Minister of Technology
    Posts
    4,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    The ground weaponary comes up short too. No Megaton , no Gigaton blast.
    And the lines of the battle field are clearly drawn. One good Nuke level blast would level most of the enemy on either side...including their star ships.



    The initial explosion is small but it blossoms fairly quickly.


    This is equal to about a full size car's weigh in TNT or a large pick up truck, in other words near 2,000 lbs of TNT more than what was used to take down the Oklahoma City Federal Building.

    No shock wave...though there should be no mushroom cloud to illistrate a rapid increase in temperture at the core.
    What you think Armor and Infantry are going to use wide area explosives on a planet they are trying to take? Get real. That missle was probably the Star Wars souped up version of a TOW or Hellfire. A shaped charge detonation designed to pierce armor via and effect not unlike a blowtorch. The resulting explosion was probably the vehicles own power plant.

    Come one man challenge me, don't post this stuff as it is too easy to explain.

  3. #3023
    Minister of Technology
    Posts
    4,149
    Quote Originally Posted by HiND-SIGHT View Post
    ok, so we have star trek versus star wars

    part 1, material and spanwise differences.

    startrek spans 4 galaxies; home, the galaxy the borg originated in, and the dominion's galaxy. the 4th is really a realm instead of galaxy but the space here is infinite. species 8472 is here.

    starwars spanns 2, the orinigal, and the vong galaxy, wich is now completely devoid of life.

    so we have total resource projection, startrek is assumed 3 times greater in population, while general assumed resources are at startrek 3 to star wars 2. keep in mind taht the vong dont use metal, so its probably safe to assume their galaxy lacks metal. so in raw material you have again startrek 3 to starwars 1.

    galaxy wise, startrek's home galaxy is only 2/4ths explored sparsely populated, while the Dominion's and Borgs home galaxies are totaly explored with total populations in the trillions of trillions of trillions of trillions. ( Both borg and Dominion can be grown. Ref, ep. 'Q who?' and every ds9 ep with the dominion. so population can be scientifically infinite)

    starwars' home galaxy is at best 3/4 explored, and sparsely popualted. sorry.

    so we have starwars pitted agaisnt 2 and a half galaxies. plus whatever 8472 exists in.
    God, I love it when Meat-heads who invent shit becuase they don't understand it post.

    First Star Trek consists of ONE GALAXY, the Milky way. The Federation and her neighbors are in Quadrant Alpha and Beta. The Borg originate in Delta and the Dominion in Gamma. The Dominion seem to have explored +/-70% of theri quadrant and control half, The borg control only about a quarter of their quadrant and even then have two Neighbors that cannot seem to assimilate. The Federation and her neighbors take up a small fraction of Alpha and Beta quadrants. Over all Space is thinly populated. Riker was at one point amazed that an Ancient empire had once had 2 trillion sentients. So I am assuming the Federation cannot have more than twice this and at no point do they even claim they have even the two trillion.

    Star Wars has a Galaxy and a Megallenic Cloud. Byt the time of the rise of the Empire 90% of that galaxy is not only charted but inhabited. Coruscant itself has more than 12 trillion sentient inhabitants.


    part 2, technological differences.

    in starwars and startrek there is sheilding. the only difference is in starwars, they dont need sheilding while in FTL travel. in startrek they need it because they are not traveling via subspace.

    traveling at warp 9 ( standard cruising speed of Borg Cubes. ) a micrometeor impact at 2.2x10 to the 8th power km/s would release a heck of a lot of energy. far more than the DS2's superlaser can generate.

    traveling at warp, ships in the startrek universe use only the less powered navigational deflector sheilding.

    thus by rationalization of practical observations, you have basic sheilding of any startrek ship being able to withstand far more energy than any starwars weapon would be able to generate.

    but as with any subject there are obvious flaws, but the only flaws here is that it has been noted that the greater the amount of high yield energy at low speed has the nasty habit of being fatal. there is no startrek ship that can go into a sun.

    as for redirecting gas-based energy weapons, that should be a pice of pie. or cake.

    using this sheild strength as a basis for judging real energy amounts, you would also have to look at how powerful the weapons of the startrek universe would have to be to penetrate those sheilds.

    really really really powerful.
    Okay, first of all, Shielding on both ships is strong versus the weaponry employed. Star Wars as 12.5 gigaton equivalnet Turbolasers and Star Trek has 12.5 gigawatt Phaser XII strips. Star Wars ISD mount 60 of these cannons and Star Trek vessels mount as many as 20 of their phasers. No contest really.

    For canon info on the power of level of Star trek shields they are less than 400 gigawatts on the Galaxy Class Heavy Cruiser, one of the most powerful ships in the Federation.

    Now for you rather exhuberatn discussion of Structural integrity fields, travelling at Warp and Main deflectors I will adress each point.

    A grain of sand at warp 9 would have 6.6720572834404E+18 joules which is far less that the 1.0E+38 joules required for the energetic destruction of Alderaan. Of course that matters little as due to the nature of Warp travel no grain of sand, or even particle of dust manage to strike the travelling vessel.

    Warp Travel requires creating a Warp field, a bubble of energy wherein the rules of space, gravity, time, and relativity are bent and ignored. Basically this bubble of altered space allows a federation vessel to ignore the rules of Relativity and move faster than light. Of Course this is done for everything iside the field as well. Now to avoid ruptures or accumulation fo debris the Main deflector scans out infront of the ship and moves larger pieces of debris out of the way and corrects course to avoid some of the nastier objects that it would simply take too much power to move. So in effect the Main Defector works as sort of a cow catcher.

    Now structural integrity fields are what Star Trek ships use to make up for their grandios designs and shody materials. The Galaxy class Starship will actually sag under it's own weight in a gravity well if the structural integrity field is not active.

    part 3, traveling methods.

    most basic vessels in the startrek universe use Warp technology. wich is slower than starwars' Hyperdrive.

    but unfortunatly, most basic ships are not borg. the borg are known to have subspace wormhole technology wich enables any single borg ship to travel immedeatly to its destination. also, the borg incorporate a total known number of 7 borg wormhole conduits. such a teleportaion device was used by voyager to cross the whole startrek universe in seconds.

    no hyperdrive is that fast.
    You will notice it does not take second but minutes and hours to travel the main conduits. Something that the Borg can't actually build but take advantage of natural phenomena. Minor conduits that are faster than Warp but still slower than even a class 20 hyperdrive are withn borg capabilities.


    part 4, jedi shmedi.

    jedi are able to use the force. it flows. its in most things. ok.

    if there was a 'Force' apparent in the startrek universe, someone should have noticed it. Jedi came about some how, and logical deductions says if there was Force in trek, there should be some jedi. but there are no jedi. so to surmise, there is no force in the startrek universe.

    so as far as using Jedi and the Force to combat the Borg, you are out of luck, with no force to control in the Trek realm, jedi are powerless.
    What are Betazeds, Q, Organians and all those other races with strange powers using? Does it seem at all different from the Force? Not really.


    part 5, the factions.

    in all of starwars history, there has never been an allaince between rebel and empire, or the recent enemy of chance. there is allways a good and bad. even the impending doom of ultimate destruction wasn't enough to get the correlians to help out. all of the races are lazy. and more likely to backstab eachother than get anything done.

    in startrek, you have multiple instances of entire quadrants uniting aganst a common foe, hell even the Borg teamed up with Voyager to fight 8472.

    if anything, a war with starwars would unify all of the entire startrek universe.
    The Borg teamed with Vioyager to take Species 8472 becuase they were getting murdered wholesale. In the dominion war wasn't it the Cardassians helping the Dominion. Come one no faction in Star Trek save the Federation and possibly the Gorn, would unite with the others if they thought they could cut a deal with the invaders.

    As for the Imperial and-Republic alliances worked in Truce at Bakhura (sp) even if the regional governer tried to backstab after victory was assured. The Imperial Remnamentand the New Republic got along fine and the Hapes cluster came to help the Republic, and if you pay the Hutts they'll fight.

    part 5, the slaughter

    so you now have this picutre of a half galaxy with multiple factions each fighting eachother for power. ( starwars )

    and then BOOM! you now have those planets in that galaxy simultaneously assualted by ...lets see....60 Borg cubes each? there is no shred of faith by anyone in the universe that would hope to survive.

    and now the borg have enough resources and people to hunt down and destroy any last anything.

    survival is not an option, by the time the Cubes are in orbit, there are millions of Drones on the planet. the only option is to destroy the planet. and if wiping out yourself is your choice, then so be it. the problem is you only have 5-6 superweapons to use on thousands of planets.

    sorry, starwars, you have been assimilated.

    60 cubes hmm wouldn't even be a work out for one star destroyer let alone Golan Defense Sattelites, Ground batteries, planetary fighter wings and Planetary shields. 60 cubes would end up so much orbiting scrap metal as to be pitiful.

    The comparison would be like 60 knights on armored chargers with lances and maces against a single M1A1 Abrams tank.


    part 6, aftermath.

    the Q continum, puts the starwars galaxy in the startrek galaxy's past, as the home galaxy for the Borg. And laughs. Laughs a lot.

    the cycle is complete. sorry for the spelling, this was done really fast.
    So in your Star Trek wankverse the borg actually get less powerful over the millenia

  4. #3024
    Quote Originally Posted by Nasor View Post
    You want "evidence" that the weapons on a one-man fighter aren't as powerful as the heavy guns on a capitol ship? I'm kind of amazed that you're able to operate a computer well enough to post messages here if your brain is really that damaged.
    Statement by Nasor: Hostile/Biligerent- Ignored.
    Initial Statement-TW Scott: Argumentative/ Lacking in Evidence-Disregarded.

    The design reflects this as the piece does not seem to be for any sort of ground support.
    I would concur: However Canon (Clone Wars) disagrees. These vehicles weaponary was used for ground support against the Banking Clan. Objection Overruled.

    Now as the ships they are firing on are converted Federation Frieghters I would not expect them to be as heavily armored as a Star Destroyer or even a Corvette.
    Statement of Star Destroyer Armor: Disregared-Lack of Evidence
    Trade Federation comment: Overruled. They are as canon states. "Federation starships" In fact they are the central command center of Trad Federation battlships seen in Episode I

    Finally novel canon has stated several times that there is nuetronium in the DuraArmor hulls of warships
    .
    Statement of Armor: Disregarded Lack of Evidence.

    Note: I will not take your "word" which has so far been good for nothing. You've lied on three seperate and distinct occasions. To support your arguments you will supply passage, page, book and author or be seen as incompetent to continue the debate. You have disrespected others opinions. Yours will not be taken on good faith.

    By the way I will point that even a 4.5 kiloton blast is more than enough firepower to Destory the shields of a Federation Galaxy Class Starship several times over. So even if your right, you still lose.
    Your statement is inconclusive and baseless.
    You've pointed "out" an untruth. While Torpedos vary in antimatter they are rated higher than a kiloton. The Galaxy can take many torpedo strikes.

    So even if I'm right you still lose.

    The above photo prove that at least twenty years prior that Star Wars was on the same level if not lower (judging from the explosive content of cannon.) as Star Trek in the 23rd century.

    These beam weapons leveled the City much as a Phaser would do in TOS. They show that Star Wars armor is nothing special. Viewing the ground based artillary in Clone Wars compared to the penetration of the Trade Federationi ships armor details that there is nothing out of the ordinary here.

    Once again there is no colaboration of cannon with Wong's asteroid "vaporization" calculation. Those calcuations remain un substaniated in cannon.
    Last edited by Saquist; 02-01-07 at 07:52 AM.

  5. #3025
    Valued Senior Member
    Posts
    6,223
    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Statement by Nasor: Hostile/Biligerent- Ignored.
    You can ignore it if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you would have to be a complete f*cking moron to think that the guns on a one-man fighter are as powerful as the main guns on a star destroyer.

  6. #3026
    man, this discussion is MEAN...

  7. #3027
    spaceballs wins because they don't have to follow rules.

  8. #3028
    Quote Originally Posted by Nasor View Post
    You can ignore it if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you would have to be a complete f*cking moron to think that the guns on a one-man fighter are as powerful as the main guns on a star destroyer.
    Current course of Disregard: Sustained.

    spuriousmonkey spaceballs wins because they don't have to follow rules.

    LOL!!! HERE HERE

  9. #3029
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    30
    i see that logical thinking is not common in the starwars universe.

    Borg are from a different galaxy, statrek.com borg documetaries show that.

    i was wrong, dominion is gamma.

    and for Betazeds and the Q continum, those are completely different from jedi, instead of manipulating some area of the galaxy, NOT UNIVERSE, betazeds read minds, and the Q are omnipotent beings. one Q alone would wipe out the beginings of the beginings in the universe. you cant fight something you are incapable of comprehending.

    as for borg and your big fleets with lots of weapons, what good are your fleets, when all it takes is a couple shots from an ISD for the borg to adapt? then all your 25000+ fancy smansy ships are only worth their ablility to ram into objects.

    let alone that the real battle isnt really due to space combat, its due to many millions of borg that will transport onto each planet and assimilate. no army of the republic or empire OR ANY star wars era had close to the number of Borg available. Trade Federation and the Seperatisits may come within a two digit percentage, but they where beaten because the droids where inefective.

    further more, there is not enough fighters, golan platforms, walkers, superweapons, defense platforms, ISD, Vic's,SSD's, Soverigns, to protect a fith of the planets in your universe. let alone enough in numbers to overwhelm all of the cubes before they adapt, find a way around your sheilds, and transport legions of drones planetside.

    and no, your weapons and sheilds will be adapted to, becuase in starwars you cant modulate either.

    you may also be reminded that the borg have a limited time travel knowledge, wich made them able to send a sphere back in time 200 years, and sent an advanced sphere and drone back from the future. it was so easy the enterprise duplicated it on spot and rode back with it.

    IF you gained the upper hand, wich is not possible, the borg or the Q would just go back in time and wipe out your amino acids.

    heck they wouldnt have to back in time, take 1 ship and do what picard did in " all good things..." put that spacial-time energy scan, and do it exaclty the same several days apart. instant anti time rupture.

    OR use subspace weapons. enough subspace weapons used would probably disrupt you silly hyperdrives, as well as any travel. nothing in starwars has any defense against subspace weapons.

    and remember, once borg land on a planet, thats all the more material and drones for them.

    the one reason, you have to admit, that statrek has the upperhand , is their knowledge and command over space, energy and matter. forget troop anythings, forget weapons this and all the imaginary, fighting startrek is like 30 children fighting a sith, theres no hope in winning, because the sith has power over things they cant understand.

    your sith and jedi are funny btw, they are killed easily.

  10. #3030
    Plutarch (Mickey's Dog)
    Posts
    9,214
    Nasor:

    Okay, an old time arquebus can puncture high medieval armour with ease, yes?

    Just as a modern rifle can puncture body armour with similar ease, from a relatively short distance away, yes?

    Does this mean that an arquebus and rifle are on par with one another?

    Certainly not.

  11. #3031
    Plutarch (Mickey's Dog)
    Posts
    9,214
    HiND-SIGHT:

    Borg are from a different galaxy, statrek.com borg documetaries show that.
    Name?

    As the Star Trek Wiki disagrees:

    http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/The_Borg

    They are from the Delta Quadrant...-of the Milky Way-.

    and for Betazeds and the Q continum, those are completely different from jedi, instead of manipulating some area of the galaxy, NOT UNIVERSE, betazeds read minds, and the Q are omnipotent beings. one Q alone would wipe out the beginings of the beginings in the universe. you cant fight something you are incapable of comprehending.
    Obi Wan Kenobi: "The Force is what gives the Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates. It binds the galaxy together. "

    This does not imply "just the galaxy". This implies -all beings-. Accordingly, to say the Force does not exist in ST is as absurd as saying Warp Drive and Q doesn't work in SW.

    as for borg and your big fleets with lots of weapons, what good are your fleets, when all it takes is a couple shots from an ISD for the borg to adapt? then all your 25000+ fancy smansy ships are only worth their ablility to ram into objects.
    The Borg show no capacity to assimilate past their technological limits. The power of an ISD is several orders of degree higher than anything produced by ST.

    let alone that the real battle isnt really due to space combat, its due to many millions of borg that will transport onto each planet and assimilate. no army of the republic or empire OR ANY star wars era had close to the number of Borg available. Trade Federation and the Seperatisits may come within a two digit percentage, but they where beaten because the droids where inefective.
    Star Wars has several million inhabited planets. Coruscant alone holds more than a trillion indivuals - and maybe even as high as several quadrillion, from population density figures taken from the average city-scape, and the depth of the city. There are also several ecumenopoliae such as Coruscant in SW - like Metellos and Nar'Shadaa.

    The Borg inhabit one small portion, of one small quadrant, of the galaxy. In thousands of years, they did not even conquer that sector of space. Star Wars have had -galactic- threats for 27,000 years, and space threats for 100,000.

    further more, there is not enough fighters, golan platforms, walkers, superweapons, defense platforms, ISD, Vic's,SSD's, Soverigns, to protect a fith of the planets in your universe. let alone enough in numbers to overwhelm all of the cubes before they adapt, find a way around your sheilds, and transport legions of drones planetside.
    Most planets have their own militia with space vehicles. These space vehicles are equipped with the same weapons as their larger counterparts, in lesser numbers, and usually with more self-contained weapons (such as torps). However, the electric warfare - which is aeons ahead of ST's - would make transport impossible. Accordingly, they just have to continue firing.

    you may also be reminded that the borg have a limited time travel knowledge, wich made them able to send a sphere back in time 200 years, and sent an advanced sphere and drone back from the future. it was so easy the enterprise duplicated it on spot and rode back with it.
    Go back 200 years and you don't get to fight a significantly less powerful Star Wars force.

    IF you gained the upper hand, wich is not possible, the borg or the Q would just go back in time and wipe out your amino acids.
    The Borg did not do this in First Contact. Why?

    Q would also have to deal with the Ang TI monks, which are only constrained by their moral codes to not do Q-esque things.

    OR use subspace weapons. enough subspace weapons used would probably disrupt you silly hyperdrives, as well as any travel. nothing in starwars has any defense against subspace weapons.
    The only subspace weapon used in ST "homes in on a ship's warpcore" (http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Isolytic_burst). Star Wars does not have warp cores - hence they do not work.

    and remember, once borg land on a planet, thats all the more material and drones for them.
    Unlike ST, SW is filled with melee and projectile weapons, that can slaughter the Borg. Vibroweaponary, slug throwers, grenades...

    the one reason, you have to admit, that statrek has the upperhand , is their knowledge and command over space, energy and matter. forget troop anythings, forget weapons this and all the imaginary, fighting startrek is like 30 children fighting a sith, theres no hope in winning, because the sith has power over things they cant understand.
    Um. What command of space, energy, and matter?

    your sith and jedi are funny btw, they are killed easily.
    By?

  12. #3032
    Minister of Technology
    Posts
    4,149
    Quote Originally Posted by HiND-SIGHT View Post
    i see that logical thinking is not common in the starwars universe.

    Borg are from a different galaxy, statrek.com borg documetaries show that.

    i was wrong, dominion is gamma.
    And you are worng on the Borg as Voyager clearly shows they originated in the Delta quadrant.

    and for Betazeds and the Q continum, those are completely different from jedi, instead of manipulating some area of the galaxy, NOT UNIVERSE, betazeds read minds, and the Q are omnipotent beings. one Q alone would wipe out the beginings of the beginings in the universe. you cant fight something you are incapable of comprehending.
    Actually the Q seem very limited. After all enven they cannot wipe out the Borg, Species 8472, the Hirogen, Organians, or anything else for that matter. After all if a Q wiped out the beginnings of the Universe would they not wipe out themselves? Have they shown any ability to do anything beyond a solar system level, and even then seem limited. Hell the Q that kept hounding Picard was AFRAID of Guinan.

    as for borg and your big fleets with lots of weapons, what good are your fleets, when all it takes is a couple shots from an ISD for the borg to adapt? then all your 25000+ fancy smansy ships are only worth their ablility to ram into objects.
    You don't get it do you, the Borg have shown NO ABILITY TO BECOME COMPLETELY IMMUNE TO WEAPONS. At best they have ways of increasing their defensive capabilities against the weak energy weaponry used by the Federation, Dominion, Klingons and so on. A Turbolaser mounted on an Imprial class Star Destroyer has a several million times the firepower of even the most powerful Federation Weapons. As in saying One shot one borg cube kill with no way for the Borg to scan it to adpat even if they had the power reserves to do it.

    let alone that the real battle isnt really due to space combat, its due to many millions of borg that will transport onto each planet and assimilate. no army of the republic or empire OR ANY star wars era had close to the number of Borg available. Trade Federation and the Seperatisits may come within a two digit percentage, but they where beaten because the droids where inefective.
    How are they going to transport through Planetary shields? How are they going to survive long enough against weaponry that uses more firepower than any of the Unimatrix installations generate?

    further more, there is not enough fighters, golan platforms, walkers, superweapons, defense platforms, ISD, Vic's,SSD's, Soverigns, to protect a fith of the planets in your universe. let alone enough in numbers to overwhelm all of the cubes before they adapt, find a way around your sheilds, and transport legions of drones planetside.
    Hey, six fighter can take a cube with no losses, easily, Planetary defense cannons can take a cube every three seconds if they take time to aim. One Imperial ISD can destroy 60 cubes in less than 3 seconds. Every planet has defense satelites capable of taking on ISD's. I think it is you who is SOL

    and no, your weapons and sheilds will be adapted to, becuase in starwars you cant modulate either.
    Proof?

    you may also be reminded that the borg have a limited time travel knowledge, wich made them able to send a sphere back in time 200 years, and sent an advanced sphere and drone back from the future. it was so easy the enterprise duplicated it on spot and rode back with it.
    And they have not used it since, mook. One shot thing.

    IF you gained the upper hand, wich is not possible, the borg or the Q would just go back in time and wipe out your amino acids.
    Yet they don't to the Hirogen, Federation, organiians or anything like that, why? Becuase it isn't possible.

    heck they wouldnt have to back in time, take 1 ship and do what picard did in " all good things..." put that spacial-time energy scan, and do it exaclty the same several days apart. instant anti time rupture.
    Small problems several thousand different being know how to just think those away in SW.

    OR use subspace weapons. enough subspace weapons used would probably disrupt you silly hyperdrives, as well as any travel. nothing in starwars has any defense against subspace weapons.
    Really, how do you know, oh that's right you don't your making it up.

    and remember, once borg land on a planet, thats all the more material and drones for them.
    Or a lot of dead borgs if they make the mistake of landing on a SW planet.

    the one reason, you have to admit, that statrek has the upperhand , is their knowledge and command over space, energy and matter. forget troop anythings, forget weapons this and all the imaginary, fighting startrek is like 30 children fighting a sith, theres no hope in winning, because the sith has power over things they cant understand.
    Really? Oh, that right you forget that Jedi Masters and Sith Lords can do anything a Q can do and that Ang Ti monks are comparatively powered. Your too busy in your own version of Star Trek called Star trek Wankverse.

    your sith and jedi are funny btw, they are killed easily.
    Really? Didn't look that easy even under Order 66. Meanwhile throw a rock at a borg and down it goes.

  13. #3033
    Back from the dead Mr.Spock's Avatar
    Posts
    6,938
    arent you tired of this all the time tw scot? i read some of your posts, you are very intelligent.

  14. #3034
    Minister of Technology
    Posts
    4,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Statement by Nasor: Hostile/Biligerent- Ignored.
    Initial Statement-TW Scott: Argumentative/ Lacking in Evidence-Disregarded.

    The design reflects this as the piece does not seem to be for any sort of ground support.
    I would concur: However Canon (Clone Wars) disagrees. These vehicles weaponary was used for ground support against the Banking Clan. Objection Overruled.
    Oooh would you be a Law Student? No scratch that a Law student would have looked at the statements of Lucasfilm canon and seen that Cartoon is nowhere in the range. He would have also noted that Novelization and Tech manuals are canon. You would also realize that a person can not be a Moderator for a discussion they are part of. So you are probably just a moron, but I hope not.

    Now as the ships they are firing on are converted Federation Frieghters I would not expect them to be as heavily armored as a Star Destroyer or even a Corvette.
    Statement of Star Destroyer Armor: Disregared-Lack of Evidence
    Trade Federation comment: Overruled. They are as canon states. "Federation starships" In fact they are the central command center of Trade Federation battlships seen in Episode I
    Yes, Trade Federation Starships which the novels claim are converted Trade Federation Frieghters. They are Ad hoc battleships at best. Like mounting some guns Supertanker, today. Not saying they are bad at the job, but as Phantom Menace Novelizations states they are simply converted frieghters and you will note that nothing in the movie disputes this.

    Trade federation Battleships


    Statement of Armor: Disregarded Lack of Evidence.

    Note: I will not take your "word" which has so far been good for nothing. You've lied on three seperate and distinct occasions. To support your arguments you will supply passage, page, book and author or be seen as incompetent to continue the debate. You have disrespected others opinions. Yours will not be taken on good faith.
    Well I disrespect their lies, there is a difference and I am not operating on opinion but on fact. You will also note that each of the times you claim I lied it was you who have lied, knowingly or unknowingly.

    As for the compostion of Durasteel from which Dura Armor is born: Durasteel was an incredibly strong and versatile metal alloy, created from carvanium, lommite, meleenium, neutronium, and zersium. It was capable of withstanding blistering heat, frigid cold, and monumental physical stress, even when very thin. Because of these properties, durasteel was used for almost everything, from smelting pots for other less hearty metals, to spacecraft hulls. Despite that, however, it could still rust. Durasteel containers were commonly seen throughout the Galaxy.

    Source: Durasteel


    Your statement is inconclusive and baseless.
    You've pointed "out" an untruth. While Torpedos vary in antimatter they are rated higher than a kiloton. The Galaxy can take many torpedo strikes.

    So even if I'm right you still lose.
    Actually, you will note that no Photon or Quantum Torpedo is ever measured in anything but isotons. I dare you to look that up scientifically.


    The above photo prove that at least twenty years prior that Star Wars was on the same level if not lower (judging from the explosive content of cannon.) as Star Trek in the 23rd century.

    These beam weapons leveled the City much as a Phaser would do in TOS. They show that Star Wars armor is nothing special. Viewing the ground based artillary in Clone Wars compared to the penetration of the Trade Federationi ships armor details that there is nothing out of the ordinary here.


    You will not that the targets in question are different. Cities fired on by Enterprise in TOS were Wood, Concrete, Cement, Steel and Glass. Cities in SW are Durasteel, Lammisteel, Plassteel, the first of which contian Nuetronium.

    Once again there is no colaboration of cannon with Wong's asteroid "vaporization" calculation. Those calcuations remain un substaniated in cannon.
    Small problem those are not Wong's asteroid alculations they are Brian Youngs. Second Wong was contacted by people who have written Canon Technical Manuals for Star Wars and is actually credited. Third using what we know of physics to explain a easily observed and described phenomena is the very height of canon as it uses the movie itself, jackass.
    Last edited by TW Scott; 02-01-07 at 10:55 PM.

  15. #3035
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    30
    redo your math you tard,

    if an ssd medeum TL does the 40m (dia) asteroid over, that dosent mean it can completely destroy a cube in one hit.

    lets seee, 40m dia means a volume of 33,510meters cubed.

    translation into kilometers: .000033510 km squared.

    a borg cube is made of composites and alloys, wich react less than raw material to energy, and has a porous volume of 28 kimlometers.

    to completely destroy a cube, you would have to fire 835571471.2 TL bolts.

    accounting for the cubes porous nature lets say half that : 417785735.6 shots.

    can i spell that out?

    four-hundred seventeen million,seven hundred eighty-five thousand and seven hundred and 35 point 2 shots.

    thats past the outer dfenses and direclty to the hull.

    and the ship regenerates. fast. talk about fully regenerated from a TL blast in half a minute.

    ill let you calc out how long that takes.

    heck ill set up the problem.

    time inbetween shots (t1)

    turblolaser ARC number ( n1) ( not toal number you dingbat figure half that)

    number of bolts required, ( n2 )

    without regeneration thats T1xN2/N1

    add N# in place of N2 where N3 is N2 plus, total time, divided by 30 seconds. ( regeneration)(

    N3 = N2+( T1xN2)/30s

    further more if you want be polite in this discussion, the forum gods might remove you....

    the moral is, dont piss off Q....hell turn you into a girl.

  16. #3036
    Registered Member
    Posts
    23
    Sorry about the quoting but my keyboard doesn't have the slashes required or even proper double quotes.

    tw_scott wrote
    'By the way I will point that even a 4.5 kiloton blast is more than enough firepower to Destory the shields of a Federation Galaxy Class Starship several times over.'

    I thought the photon torpeadoes produced something like 40-60 megatons (on thing I read said 200 but that seems a bit much) and quantum torpedoes did atleast twice that.

    I think the Q would be able to wipe out both galaxies. The don't because they are self ruled and find things like this to be bad. I am doubt they use the force because their actions don't follow the idea of the force were everything is connected. If they did they are far beyond masters of it since the dark side or the light side are never a thought to them and no amount of jedi will be able to stop them. That is to say even if the force is in our galaxy. I have tried and it doesn't work for me.

    I don't know if hind sight is able to follow some of his preachings but you seem to be off a little bit in your thinking.

    Another thing I was thinking, what about hand held weapons. In star trek their hand held weapons seem to be better. Every weapon going from stun to disintegrate. Now I know that star wars has the same thing but there aren't any weapons that can do all of it. Some that can stun and some that do damage and some that disintegrate.

    One thing I would like to point out to a lot of people as well. Although so far I am taking star treks side, mostly due to my experiences watching both throughout my life, but one thing still needs to be taken into account. Star trek is a new tech system. A lot of what we see has been invented in the next 300 years or so. Some of it such as the disons sphere (not sure on spelling) was a little older. And most of star trek was thought out by people working in the fields of physics. Star wars is an ancient tech system. Hyperdrives are hundreds of thousands of years old and used by civiliyations that are now extinct for so long no one can even guess at who they were. Not to mention more powerful civiliyations. And although alot of star wars can be explanned with physics now when it was thought up it was envisioned. Star wars is based on a fantasy, star trek is based as a sci fi. Things like how the death star is able to power a combinded powered laser, rather then the kind everything else uses in the galaxy, to blow up a planet is never mentioned becasue we have no idea how. Star trek is all explainable, well most of it anyway. True some things may be beyond us now, such as How they manufature anti matter so easily or how they get so much power out of it but think about how much power we can get from a gas engine compared to when we first started making them.

    Another thing I thought I would bring up now is the discussion we had about the stars and gravity. How star wars were more powerful becasue they could fly through the maw without problems and such. In the maw the gravitational forces were countered by themselves. That is why they had paths to follow where one black holes effect was cancelled by another. In voyager they approched an even horiyon so close they could sense their own echo and even became caught in its time shadow. That is pretty close yet they lived and made it out. I have yet to read about a star wars ship being able to do that.

  17. #3037
    Yes, Trade Federation Starships which the novels claim are converted Trade Federation Frieghters. They are Ad hoc battleships at best. Like mounting some guns Supertanker, today. Not saying they are bad at the job, but as Phantom Menace Novelizations states they are simply converted frieghters and you will note that nothing in the movie disputes this.
    Statement of Trade Federation ship classes: ACCEPTED

    Well I disrespect their lies, there is a difference and I am not operating on opinion but on fact. You will also note that each of the times you claim I lied it was you who have lied, knowingly or unknowingly.
    Your numerous lies are on record. Ignorance on this subject is barely tolerable. To associate your perspective with absolute truth is a lie with out absolute proof. Thus you lied.

    Statement on Durasteel: ACCEPTED

    Actually, you will note that no Photon or Quantum Torpedo is ever measured in anything but isotons. I dare you to look that up scientifically.
    Nonsensical:

    You will not that the targets in question are different. Cities fired on by Enterprise in TOS were Wood, Concrete, Cement, Steel and Glass. Cities in SW are Durasteel, Lammisteel, Plassteel, the first of which contian Nuetronium.
    -I've accepted your exibit of proof on Durasteel. However it's clear this is not the stuff a nuetron star is made of. Durasteel is very destructable as seen from the Attack of the Cones pics above.

    Third using what we know of physics to explain a easily observed and described phenomena is the very height of canon as it uses the movie itself, jackass.
    Statement of Cannon: Hostile/ Disregared.
    The conclusion "vaporized" is not canon and is not supported else where in the film. It is the sole observence and effect presented thus far.

  18. #3038
    Voyager stated that a 200 isoton yield would affect an entire star system.
    Janeway declined this idea for the nanoprobe dispersal.
    Seven of Nine disagree and overrided her.

    apparently an Isoton is far greater than a GIGAton. This must refer to dispersal radius an not firepower.

  19. #3039
    Registered Member
    Posts
    23
    If durasteel did use neutrons as you would find in a neutron star you would figure it would be industructable and would create such gravitational forces no one could go near it. you would need an escape velocity of about 100,000 km per hour just to get off the sidewalk.

  20. #3040
    precisely.

    And since star wars has not displayed the ability to harevest a neutron or maintain the hostile enviroment on a ships hull to maintain the state of matter then it must be an artifically created neutronium.

    Neutronium in it's pure form would be like looking at a highly polished surface, super reflective and impossiblity strong.

    Star Destroyer armor is anything but glossy. The amount of artiffically created neutronium would be nothing more than an agent in a mix of agents in this alloy.

    I don't see the point of bring this up. This actually hurt your argument.

Similar Threads

  1. By Fettman in forum SciFi & Fantasy
    Last Post: 10-18-11, 02:02 PM
    Replies: 33
  2. By USS Athens in forum SciFi & Fantasy
    Last Post: 03-16-10, 04:47 PM
    Replies: 291
  3. By superstring01 in forum SciFi & Fantasy
    Last Post: 03-11-10, 01:57 PM
    Replies: 60
  4. By Orleander in forum SciFi & Fantasy
    Last Post: 07-11-09, 08:33 PM
    Replies: 27
  5. By Asguard in forum Computer Science & Culture
    Last Post: 09-13-08, 02:15 AM
    Replies: 0

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •