View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #2961
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince_James View Post
    On the matter of Leia:

    Remembering one's mother vaguely, as a sort of feeling that one associates with one's mother, does not violate the canonical death of Amidala as a guffaw on the part of Lucas. Rather, it is meant to be taken that Leia feels she remembers how it was to have a mother, even if she probably does not legitimately remember anything.

    Sorry, I can't buy that. Like our lady friend said...it may be best to ignore it.
    But I'm a believer in the good writting of the orignal trillogy. Some one forgot that part. Plain N simple.

    However there is an explanation...
    That she was there for Leia when she infant to 6. Six is the age that most children remeber things like parents and feelings that Leia mentions.

    Padme obviously faked her death. The Organa family obviously took her in as her daughter. Leia knew who here real mother was...her face yet she's considered a princes of Alderaan by everyone.

    Maybe Padme was there as servant like role under the Organa family but that her child required the immunity of royalty to avoid scrutiny by the Emperor and more importantly her lost love Anakin. Perhaps she also started the Rebellion...

    Those are things the Next Clone Wars Cartoons may go into as well as the live action Star Wars series that Lucas said he might put into production.

  2. #2962
    Plutarch (Mickey's Dog)
    Posts
    9,214
    Saguist:

    Advantage/Disadvantage
    Shields: Wars: large planets/needs dual layer of two ypes.
    Trek: small object coverage/ defeated by frequency specific
    Frequency specific does not defeat weapons of sufficient power.

    Nor can frequency work on physical objects. Physical objects do not have frequency.

    No clear advantage judge as equal according to ship size.
    Star Wars shield weather significantly higher damage.

    Beams: Wars: Few to noe
    Trek: Large vareity of strenght and abiity
    Um, what?

    Star Wars has blasters, lasers, turbo lasers, super lasers, ion, and disruptor weapons.

    Star Trek has disruptors and phasers.

    Shielded weapons would be an unknown and a surprise: As well as the Phaser Cannon. This one goes to trek.
    Federation tech has a clear variety and superiority in distructive ability
    Shielded weapons would be unknown?

    Star Wars ships would scan Star Trek ships and judge where weapons are likely to come from. Only their nature might not be able to be determined before hadn.

    Superluminal: War's up to 10's of thousands of times faster than light/ No weapon use
    Trek's: Much slower...7,000 x's c max/ no clear disadvantagge
    Not tens of thousands. 20 million.

    No weapon use, yes, but who needs weapons at 20 million c?

    No ability to see outside the cloak for Wars
    Trek: Romulan cloaking devices have only gotten better and with other features like phase cloak.
    Can't cloaks be defeated by sensors?

    Wars clocks cannot. The only thing that can see through them are Force Sensitives.

    After one goes through this list, it becomes clear that the Star War galaxy has several advantages as well as trek...The battle between the two would be much closer than the Star War's fans would have us think. Infact it would be a far more intresting battle with different strategies to be employed by each.
    It would take a matter of weeks for Star Wars to bypass every defense Star Trek could muster and annihilate every major population centre. The speed of hyperspace makes this possible.

  3. #2963
    star trek has g0t Daniel fr0m future with technlogy to blow star wars off the charts

  4. #2964
    Prince James.[QUOTE]Frequency specific does not defeat weapons of sufficient power.[/QUOTE]
    --Don't know what you're talking about.

    Star Wars shield weather significantly higher damage.
    ---Sure why not, If you want it to.


    Shielded weapons would be unknown?
    Star Wars ships would scan Star Trek ships and judge where weapons are likely to come from. Only their nature might not be able to be determined before hadn.

    Oh that's another one for Trek...Trek sensors seem vastly more superior.

    Um, what?

    Star Wars has blasters, lasers, turbo lasers, super lasers, ion, and disruptor weapons.
    Star Trek has disruptors and phasers.
    ---Lasers? Okay Whatever.


    Not tens of thousands. 20 million.
    ---Uncanon

    Can't cloaks be defeated by sensors?
    --Yes Trek sensor are more superior like I said above. but No sensors alone can't track cloaked targets. A Tacyon net can. but briefly like a speed trap.


    It would take a matter of weeks for Star Wars to bypass every defense Star Trek could muster and annihilate every major population centre. The speed of hyperspace makes this possible.
    I'm sure you believe so much I won't be able to reason with that kind of faith.

  5. #2965
    Plutarch (Mickey's Dog)
    Posts
    9,214
    Saguist:

    --Don't know what you're talking about.
    Are you telling me that a shield would work as effectively against a gigaton blast as it does the megaton?

    ---Sure why not, If you want it to.
    Film evidence.

    Oh that's another one for Trek...Trek sensors seem vastly more superior.
    That is why they can't scan when there is any disturbance on the ground?

    You do realize that Star Wars runs full electric warfare pretty much all the time, yes? That is why many weapons have to be fired manually.

    ---Uncanon
    Not uncanon. We have trips in the movies that go across the galaxy in a matter of hours.

    --Yes Trek sensor are more superior like I said above. but No sensors alone can't track cloaked targets. A Tacyon net can. but briefly like a speed trap.
    When do they use a Tachyon Net?

    I'm sure you believe so much I won't be able to reason with that kind of faith.
    Considering you can't even SPELL "canon" and refute things based off whims...who really has the "faith" here?

  6. #2966
    Im sorry, all your arguments are mute. The Ancients from Stargate pwn all.

  7. #2967
    Are you telling me that a shield would work as effectively against a gigaton blast as it does the megaton?
    --I didn't say that nor implied that. What I was saying the Federation shields are geared to cover energy burst over the entire spectrum. Nukes should prove a problem in other words.

    Film evidence.
    --Where?

    That is why they can't scan when there is any disturbance on the ground?
    You do realize that Star Wars runs full electric warfare pretty much all the time, yes? That is why many weapons have to be fired manually.
    --What kind of disturbance...I didn't say undefeatable just better than Star Wars. Trek uses ECM and jamming it doesn't hinder target locks.

    Not uncanon. We have trips in the movies that go across the galaxy in a matter of hours.
    --Which one...
    The books say weeks.

    When do they use a Tachyon Net?
    --Klingo Civil War

    Considering you can't even SPELL "canon" and refute things based off whims...who really has the "faith" here?
    --You do. You could have answered these questions yourself or SPELL the word "cannon" any way you wish.

  8. #2968
    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    weapons

    Beams: Wars: Few to noe
    Trek: Large vareity of strenght and abiity
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince_James View Post
    Um, what?

    Star Wars has blasters, lasers, turbo lasers, super lasers, ion, and disruptor weapons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    ---Lasers? Okay Whatever.
    The word "laser" may be in their names, but their end products that comes out of the barrels certainly do not act like lasers.
    Nor do they look like lasers.

  9. #2969
    That's and uncanon conclussion.

    Lucas uses the term Laser. In essence you're saying that Lucas is wrong because they don't "behave" like lasers on screen. Strangely much of the Art work from Lucas Film shows beam weapons.

    Perhasp they were looking for a certain effect. That the laser look didn't look like bullets or rapid enough.

    Do you really think he was concerned about the actual term?
    You have to make a choice. Either you're going to follow canon or you're not. Did Lucas know what he was talking about or not?

    I've already made the choice. Paramount may have they're name on a bunch of literalture and copy rights but they don't care what they're talking about.

    Since that's obvious and the contradictions amound higher than Everest. I don't follow cannon with precision?

  10. #2970
    Minister of Technology
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    4,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Then there's Robert Anderson's method
    Simply judging the superiority or advantage of tech. It avoids tedious and false stat making and sticks with the canon.

    Advantage/Disadvantage
    Shields: Wars: large planets/needs dual layer of two ypes.
    Trek: small object coverage/ defeated by frequency specific

    No clear advantage judge as equal according to ship size.

    weapons

    Beams: Wars: Few to noe
    Trek: Large vareity of strenght and abiity

    Projectiles:
    Wars: cucussion missles-proton torps-nukes/ no clear disadvantage

    Trek: Missles-Torpedoes-Disrupters-phaser cannons (shielded weapons) / no clear disdvantage

    Shielded weapons would be an unknown and a surprise: As well as the Phaser Cannon. This one goes to trek.
    Federation tech has a clear variety and superiority in distructive ability

    Superluminal: War's up to 10's of thousands of times faster than light/ No weapon use
    Trek's: Much slower...7,000 x's c max/ no clear disadvantagge

    Cloak: (Robert judges this one in favor of War's but I say Trek while he said Federation)

    No ability to see outside the cloak for Wars
    Trek: Romulan cloaking devices have only gotten better and with other features like phase cloak.

    After one goes through this list, it becomes clear that the Star War galaxy has several advantages as well as trek...The battle between the two would be much closer than the Star War's fans would have us think. Infact it would be a far more intresting battle with different strategies to be employed by each.

    What this avoids is grandizing and the manipulation of canon facts that is often done for Star Wars do to a lack of stats at all. It also avoids the over use of tech that Trek fans often ad to the mix and is more often apart of stratagy then regular tactics. All of these comparisons are true.

    Just think if this list was carried forth of every comparable tech. It's the most fair to both worlds. It's canon in every way.

    My way and Roberts way pretty much come out the same way more equal than superior on either side.

    Okay let's try this in real comparison and let's for fun sake use the canon statistics.

    Shields

    Star Trek: Shields are Medium Power, ie Galaxy Class Shields are only ~375 gigawatts, Frequency Specific, and Provide some measure of Scanner blocking. They also work on Energy or Solid objects. However there is some amount of leakage as witness by structural damage done even though the shields are still active. Star Trek shields can be reinforced at the expense of Motive and Weaponry power supplies.

    Star Wars: Shields are most definately High powered, eg the Millenium Falcon takes mulitple hits that vaporized 100 meter asteroids. The shields come in two forms Particle shielding that strengthens the hull against slow moving (less than half light I imagine) solid objects and Explosions. Then there is Ray Shielding which handles the Energy bassed and fast moving particles. Shielding power regenerate, but not nearly at the rate it can be depleted. Shielding is sensitive to extreme gravity (black holes). Shielding can be reinforced by cahnalling protective energy from other arcs. Shielding can even be boosted with extra power usually at the cost of movement or some weapons fire.

    Advantage: Star Wars but only due to the power levels. If the power levels were the same the advantages and disadvantages would cancel each other out.

    Beam Weapons

    Star Trek:
    Phaser: Primary beam weapon of almost every race in Star Trek. As decribed by Star Trek it is a phased enrgy beam that uses a Nadion effect to break apart molecular or atomic bonds. The weapons suffers from slow rate of fire and medium power 10.4 gigawats for the Phaser XII aboard the Sovereign
    Phaser Pulse Canon: A new development based on Phasers. Only used in one known vessel class the Defiant class. Sacrifices propagation speed for a 20% increase in lethality and some Shield piercing properties against Star Trek Shields.
    Disruptor Cannons: While technically a Heavy weapon this is one based on Energy discharge thus it's entry here. Disrupters are seen as not as powerful as Photon Torpedoes, but definately more powerful than Phasers. However like Torpedoes they do miss more often than phasers.

    Star Wars
    Turbo Lasers: Immensly powerful beams that seem to be coherent light in some ways, but also act like particle beam and plasma beam. The weapon is extremely powerful as the Heavy model is supposed capable of 12.5 gigaton equivalent and even the light models can vaporize 100 meter asteroids. There rate of fire is one per second making them three taimes as fast as Phaser arrays.
    Blaster Cannons: Significantly lower powered than Turbolasers. These are the weapons of fighters and civillian Light freighters. Still impressive becuase of their extremely high rate of fire. 60+ shots a second is entirely feasible.
    Laser Cannons: Slightly more powerful that Blaster cannons but suffer from slower rate of fire. They are the weapons seen among the military craft like the X-Wing and A Wing.
    Ion Cannons: A speciality weapon designed for the express purpose of disabling a ship and not destroying it. Ion cannons seem to completely ignore shielding and then short out the impacted ship. Size of the Cannon and Size of the effected ship seems realted. The light Ion cannons on a Y-Wing can effect Fighters and Freighters, but even the smallest Corvette can shake it off. Meanwhile Planetary Defense Ion Cannons could even short of a Super Star Destroyer.

    Advantage: Star Wars again becuase of power level. If power level were the same another Draw.

    FTL Travel

    Star Trek: Reality warping drive capable of 7,000 times the speed of light. Advantage Can still fire weapons. Disadvantage: No inertia.

    Star Wars: Dimensional Jump drive capable of millions of times the speed of light. Advantage: Jumps to another reality. Disadvatage: Cannot fire weapons.

    Advantage: Split. Strategically Star Wars has an unstoppable advantage. They can cross a Galaxy in days and until they drop to sublight are not detectable by conventional means. Tactically Star Trek can use warp strafing or quick formation changes.

    Projectiles
    Star Trek
    Photon Torpedo: The benchmark of Star Trek firepower. Rated at around 21.5 isotons. They normally travel at sublight, but if launched form warp can travel short distances with Warp Sustainer engines. Effects have been mixed, they seem particualrly powerful against ships with active warp drive, but against targets that do not have an active warp drive they lose effectiveness. Ion Torpedoes are pretty much in the same boat.
    Quantum Torpedo: A much more powerful speciality weapon. Used only when no other weapon can do the job. On the Federation has them and only in limited quantities. Rated at 60+ isotons they are decidly superior to photn torpedoes. It should be noted that Quantum torpedo performance is not effected by the absence of a warp drive.
    Plasma Torpedoes A Gorn and Romulan weapon that is being used less and less. The Torpedo is a warp three ball of specially designed plasma that converts to energy when it strikes it's target. Extremely powerful at short ranges the weapon loses some potency at range as it expend plasma to follow it's target.

    Star Wars
    Energy Torpedo: An older less refined version of the Proton Torpedo. This is basically a Concussion missile wrapped in an energy coccon when fired. The ports are easily disguised to look like Concussion Missile ports. Energy Torpedoes are not quite as powerful as Proton Torpedoes but are still effective ways for a fighter sized craft to threaten Capital Ships
    Proton Torpedoes: A heavy explosive missile wrapped in a Proton field so as to prevent them from detonating on random debris instead of their intended target. These weapons make Fighters a credible threat against smaller capitla ships and a nuissance against the larger ones. There is a slightly heavier model with more power.
    Concussion Missiles Concussion missiles are the workhorse projectile Coming in three grades Normal, Heavy and Assault. The normal model are slightly inferior to the Proton Torpedo, but are legal and unless you have good instruments hard to spot as they don't glow. Heavy varieties pack the punch of the Proton Torpedoes, but lack the sheathing. Assault are the Bombardment missles as powerful as Heavy Turbo Lasers, but horribly expensive.

    Advantage: Star Wars by power level and launch methods as they is no way a Federation ship can match a Squadron of Fighters for number of tordpedoes launched at once.

  11. #2971
    Minister of Technology
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    4,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    --Don't know what you're talking about.
    He's saying that making your shields match the frequency of the weapon only increases it 100% that is still far far far lower than what is needed to Block a Turbo laser.

    Star Wars ships would scan Star Trek ships and judge where weapons are likely to come from. Only their nature might not be able to be determined before hadn.
    Oh that's another one for Trek...Trek sensors seem vastly more superior.
    Oh yes, they lose ships inside of simple magnetic poles all time. Star Wars you at least have to have a sensor mask or cloaking device and hide in a blind spot to pull that off.


    ---Lasers? Okay Whatever.
    Hey, they are still hundreds of time more powerful that is what is needed to blow through the front shield of a Galaxy class starship

    ---Uncanon
    Hmmm, your favorite argument but you never ever back it up


    --Yes Trek sensor are more superior like I said above. but No sensors alone can't track cloaked targets. A Tacyon net can. but briefly like a speed trap.
    Trek sensors are a joke see above.


    I'm sure you believe so much I won't be able to reason with that kind of faith.
    not a matter of belief, but of knowing. Hell I could devise a campaign that would last exactly one day and poof the Federation is gone. And it would even take into account the Federation knowing of the Empire. hehehe

  12. #2972
    Minister of Technology
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    4,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    That's and uncanon conclussion.

    Lucas uses the term Laser. In essence you're saying that Lucas is wrong because they don't "behave" like lasers on screen. Strangely much of the Art work from Lucas Film shows beam weapons.

    Perhasp they were looking for a certain effect. That the laser look didn't look like bullets or rapid enough.

    Do you really think he was concerned about the actual term?
    You have to make a choice. Either you're going to follow canon or you're not. Did Lucas know what he was talking about or not?

    I've already made the choice. Paramount may have they're name on a bunch of literalture and copy rights but they don't care what they're talking about.

    Since that's obvious and the contradictions amound higher than Everest. I don't follow cannon with precision?
    Actually he uses the term laser but in describing what it does it is obvious it is not a laser. In fact he never even hints that the effect is a LASER except by name. For what we are allowed to know it could just as easily be a misnomer they put on the weapon that stuck. Happens all the time. In fact the way he describes Turbolasers working is the same way he describes blasters working and he is rather emphatic that is not a laser.

    However in your obsession that Paramount doesn't get to decide what is Canon, you are unfortunately screwed. You have NO RIGHTS to decide what is canon or not. Don't like that little fact? Invent your own Trek wankverse and get out of our hair.

  13. #2973
    Star Wars: Shields are most definately High powered, eg the Millenium Falcon takes mulitple hits that vaporized 100 meter asteroids.
    -Uncannon. Therefore inadmissable as comparrison. You don't have the size of the asteroids nor the composition. Thus (definitely or even maybe is fictional)

    So again you're being bias.

    Immensly powerful beams that seem to be coherent light in some ways, but also act like particle beam and plasma beam
    --This is wrong. It's not coherent light. Then again we have no Idea what it is since coherent light would be a laser and you guys say that's exactly what its not. And the Main batteries maybe high powered but certainly noting else. So again more bias.

    ---I'll assume the rest of your post is more of the same: Incabable of objectivity.

    Actually he uses the term laser but in describing what it does it is obvious it is not a laser. In fact he never even hints that the effect is a LASER except by name. For what we are allowed to know it could just as easily be a misnomer they put on the weapon that stuck. Happens all the time. In fact the way he describes Turbolasers working is the same way he describes blasters working and he is rather emphatic that is not a laser.

    AAHHH!!! Now here's the crux of your dilema! You know everything! I should have figured this out earlier. Everything you say IS cannon and every anyone says, ie George Lucas is uncanon.

    --Lets jump in shall we?

    Actually he uses the term laser but in describing what it does it is obvious it is not a laser.
    --This is the only agreement I think we'll ever enjoy so suck it up. These aren't lasers YET! The man, The MAN at the top says they are.

    In fact he never even hints that the effect is a LASER except by name.
    Is that supposed to be a disclaimer for George Lucas' lack of simple knowledge. I don't think you can speak for him. Not for what you're thinking. You just called what ever the Turbo laser is, "COHERENT LIGHT" Which is the very definition of the word Laser..."LIGHT AMPLIFICATION". You don't know what a laser is either.

    In fact the way he describes Turbolasers working is the same way he describes blasters working and he is rather emphatic that is not a laser.
    That may be but misnomer or not the term has analytical value. Confirmation that Lucas didn't know problably care what a laser actual was.

    However in your obsession that Paramount doesn't get to decide what is Canon, you are unfortunately screwed. You have NO RIGHTS to decide what is canon or not. Don't like that little fact? Invent your own Trek wankverse and get out of our hair.
    --You mean like what you've done? I sense your fuse has already burned itself out. You've decided the creator of your sci fi fantasy doesn't know what he's talking about...AND admitted that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

    You have taken it upon yourself to draw up calcuations and variables privy to your whim to concock numbers that obviously favor your Most Favorite movie of all time. You have taken the responsibilty of speaking for George Lucas to the point of dictation of what is cannon. You apparently "love" the word cannon like an affair. You're faithfull to the letter of it one moment and the next you're saying it's wrong. Faithfull...then wrong...ALL according to you whims and delights.

    Lets leave aside your thinking on Trek which is obviously insufficient to speak in behalf of. You couldn't name a Trek advantage over WARS if you arms were being threaten by a WOOKIE. Your judgements are obviously bias. You tell me
    I can't decide what is cannon?

    "Leia didn't know what she was talking about?"
    "They're not lasers"?

    What JANGO FETT's ship magicly lost several Megatons on some freak shortage? : Leia's arm wasn't blown off by a blaster: Hoth saw no such detonations.

    Is the cannon wrong? AGAIN?

    Did the Empire Forget They had an SSD in orbit of ENDOR?(EASY REBEL KILLER) Does this MEGATON POWER not travel well to planetary surfaces OR WHAT? Are the SPEEDERS' weapons dialed down so as not blow away the AT AT walkers too quickly: WAS Leia FIRING on BOBA's ship just for kicks? DID ANAKIN's fighter also LOSE TORPEDO FIRE POWER in it's POWER LOSS TO on the TRADE FEDERATION SHIP? DID the TRADE FEDERATION think that MEGATON weapons was too RISKY to USE against the GUNGAN's (AGAIN on a planetary surface?) Did the Trade Federation Tank JUST HAPPEN to fire on the NABOO figher before it's shields were up? WHERE was the MEGA TON blast all during the battle of GEONOSIS? DID both sides become afraid that their weapons would simplly be to powerful? The Vong bio tech as well? The whole New Jedi Order decides all that Fire power to save the Galaxy would make it TOO EASY.

    I can't decided what's cannon? But you already have...By ignoring all this and more for one scattered asteroid.
    I tell you what...as long as you can I can too.


    Ladies and Gentleman the sheer amount of evidence against the theory is astounding and found at every part of the 2 Trilogies in EVERY SINGLE movie.
    Last edited by Saquist; 01-24-07 at 08:22 AM.

  14. #2974
    Plutarch (Mickey's Dog)
    Posts
    9,214
    Saguist:

    I am calling you out now.

    What do you accept as canon?

    "Things that support my argument"?

    WE HAVE VIDEO EVIDENCE IN THE DAMN FILMS.

  15. #2975
    I accept your challenge

    The evidence of Artoo D 2 says there is no MegaTON fire power.

    A blaster hit wounded Leia
    A blaster hit damaged Artoo D2
    A Fighter hit Damaged Artoo D2.

    That is canon....No MEGATON...the same story repeated over and over again.
    Challenged

    WE HAVE VIDEO EVIDENCE IN THE DAMN FILMS.
    Where? O please tell me where? Jango's supposed "concussion" missle? The asteroid destruction? If I'm missing anything but your prescious Death Star, tell me.

    I'm a reasonable man. But I've scoured these films. The hierarchy of common firepower is simple.

  16. #2976
    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    That's not an epsidoe I've seen.

    I believe that was an episode of ENTERPRISE, and I just wasn't into that show at all. That says alot because DS-9 was another I wasn't into...but I could easily recongnise it as TREK and it was very difficult to mold my mine to that reality.
    It wasn't an episode of Enterprise. It was one of the last Star Trek movies. The Enterprise-F had three warp engines and Riker came around from underneath and ripped through the other ship. The enemy ship was attacking another Federation ship at the time. I think it was in the movie Generations.

  17. #2977
    By Starbuster It wasn't an episode of Enterprise. It was one of the last Star Trek movies. The Enterprise-F had three warp engines and Riker came around from underneath and ripped through the other ship. The enemy ship was attacking another Federation ship at the time. I think it was in the movie Generations.

    I was already corrected. It was The Next Generation last episode called "All Good Things.." Thanks though and Hello Starbuster.

  18. #2978
    Registered Member
    Posts
    23
    Ok I started reading back at around 135 or so and have a couple things to say. First off I am both a star trek and a star wars fan. At the moment I am more into star wars then I have ever been in star trek. Second although I am sure the empire or star wars galaxy would win in a fight I think a Galaxy class star ship would beat a star destroyer.

    In the new enterprise series they mention that the phaser they install has an destructive force of 500 megajoules. Or I would imagine 500 megawatts per second. They route the power differently to run at 5000 megajoules for a couple shots.

    The enterprise E is supposed to have 12 type XII phasers with a total output of 85000 terawatts and 5 photon torpedo tubes with 500 photon torpedos and 1 quantom torpedo tupe with 600 wuantum torpedoes. Not to mention the deflector dish. The shield is has a total capacity of 4,950,000 terawatts. I am not sure how close to actual star trek this is since I don't have the manual here and can only go off different websites. Our greatest power usage has been the tsar bomba which was a 50 megaton nuke that produces about 5 Yottawatt (10E24 watt) so as you can see one of our nukes could take down the enterprises shields with stuff to spare, but as seen in one of the episodes a nuke just bounced off the shield.

    When voyager hit the bog cube with the interphasic torpedoes whether they hit the surfuce or blew up inside they destroyed the one side of the cube with is about 9 square km. That is a fair amount of destructive force no matter what the ship was made of. The enterprise E also destroys a borg cube completely in first contact with 3 quantum torpedoes. Granted the ship probly blew up due to catasrophic failure but still it was a big explosion (I would imagine close to the siye of 5 sd or 1 small super star destoryer, or there abouts).

    The speed factor is a big one as well. In star wars the fighters can see other ships and at full attack speed an x wing can manuver several times across the distance of a star destroyer. Moving at even have the speed of light or half impulse you would be past the star destroyer and around the other side of the planet in the amount of time it would take the star destroyers 'Manned' guns to even see where then enemy would be. And the manuverability of the enterprise I believe is awy moer then the star destroyers. But this one is more of a feeling more then anything since I haven't really measured them to compare, yet anyway.

    The shields on the second death star were planetary shields which can stop ships as in when corusant raised its shields against thrawns cloaked asteroids. I don't think regular shield can stop a ship from flying into them but I think that they would absorb a lot of the impact and would be a coating shield like was mentioned before. Where the Star trek shields are bubbled and stop matter from penetrating. One of the things in star trek is computer aimed shots. The hit specific targets such as shield generators or weapons or drive sections. Focusing a beam onto a specific part and overwelming the shields in that area. In star wars the aiming is by hand for the most part and is fairly inaccurate. Even though the Enterprise would be the same size as a star destoryer its head on stance would leave little areas to hit due to shape.

    I am positive that Lucas left a lot of the actual information needed to figure out this stuff out on purpose.

    But galaxy against galaxy the star trek one would win. There was that guy who could destroy who groups of people with just a thought. Not to mention all the other stuff. Like the Q and all. Not to mention telepaths and other mind users naturally without the force there could be a good fight.

  19. #2979
    I am positive that Lucas left a lot of the actual information needed to figure out this stuff out on purpose.
    I agreed with alot there. I can't substaniate the numbers though. I 've seen some of those in the tech manuals but most sites are little high on the numbers or are just ficition for the numbers. I like'em but I don't use them often.

    But out of everything you said this has the shining glare of truth. Lucas wasn't concerned with it. I believe he new these issuses for sometime and chose to ignore them...It's not about the ships but the characters.

    REcently both fictions have lost site of this.
    Last edited by Saquist; 01-24-07 at 09:31 AM.

  20. #2980

    Romulan weapons

    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Okay let's try this in real comparison and let's for fun sake use the canon statistics.

    Shields

    Star Trek: Shields are Medium Power, ie Galaxy Class Shields are only ~375 gigawatts, Frequency Specific, and Provide some measure of Scanner blocking. They also work on Energy or Solid objects. However there is some amount of leakage as witness by structural damage done even though the shields are still active. Star Trek shields can be reinforced at the expense of Motive and Weaponry power supplies.

    Star Wars: Shields are most definately High powered, eg the Millenium Falcon takes mulitple hits that vaporized 100 meter asteroids. The shields come in two forms Particle shielding that strengthens the hull against slow moving (less than half light I imagine) solid objects and Explosions. Then there is Ray Shielding which handles the Energy bassed and fast moving particles. Shielding power regenerate, but not nearly at the rate it can be depleted. Shielding is sensitive to extreme gravity (black holes). Shielding can be reinforced by cahnalling protective energy from other arcs. Shielding can even be boosted with extra power usually at the cost of movement or some weapons fire.

    Advantage: Star Wars but only due to the power levels. If the power levels were the same the advantages and disadvantages would cancel each other out.

    Beam Weapons

    Star Trek:
    Phaser: Primary beam weapon of almost every race in Star Trek. As decribed by Star Trek it is a phased enrgy beam that uses a Nadion effect to break apart molecular or atomic bonds. The weapons suffers from slow rate of fire and medium power 10.4 gigawats for the Phaser XII aboard the Sovereign
    Phaser Pulse Canon: A new development based on Phasers. Only used in one known vessel class the Defiant class. Sacrifices propagation speed for a 20% increase in lethality and some Shield piercing properties against Star Trek Shields.
    Disruptor Cannons: While technically a Heavy weapon this is one based on Energy discharge thus it's entry here. Disrupters are seen as not as powerful as Photon Torpedoes, but definately more powerful than Phasers. However like Torpedoes they do miss more often than phasers.

    Star Wars
    Turbo Lasers: Immensly powerful beams that seem to be coherent light in some ways, but also act like particle beam and plasma beam. The weapon is extremely powerful as the Heavy model is supposed capable of 12.5 gigaton equivalent and even the light models can vaporize 100 meter asteroids. There rate of fire is one per second making them three taimes as fast as Phaser arrays.
    Blaster Cannons: Significantly lower powered than Turbolasers. These are the weapons of fighters and civillian Light freighters. Still impressive becuase of their extremely high rate of fire. 60+ shots a second is entirely feasible.
    Laser Cannons: Slightly more powerful that Blaster cannons but suffer from slower rate of fire. They are the weapons seen among the military craft like the X-Wing and A Wing.
    Ion Cannons: A speciality weapon designed for the express purpose of disabling a ship and not destroying it. Ion cannons seem to completely ignore shielding and then short out the impacted ship. Size of the Cannon and Size of the effected ship seems realted. The light Ion cannons on a Y-Wing can effect Fighters and Freighters, but even the smallest Corvette can shake it off. Meanwhile Planetary Defense Ion Cannons could even short of a Super Star Destroyer.

    Advantage: Star Wars again becuase of power level. If power level were the same another Draw.

    FTL Travel

    Star Trek: Reality warping drive capable of 7,000 times the speed of light. Advantage Can still fire weapons. Disadvantage: No inertia.

    Star Wars: Dimensional Jump drive capable of millions of times the speed of light. Advantage: Jumps to another reality. Disadvatage: Cannot fire weapons.

    Advantage: Split. Strategically Star Wars has an unstoppable advantage. They can cross a Galaxy in days and until they drop to sublight are not detectable by conventional means. Tactically Star Trek can use warp strafing or quick formation changes.

    Projectiles
    Star Trek
    Photon Torpedo: The benchmark of Star Trek firepower. Rated at around 21.5 isotons. They normally travel at sublight, but if launched form warp can travel short distances with Warp Sustainer engines. Effects have been mixed, they seem particualrly powerful against ships with active warp drive, but against targets that do not have an active warp drive they lose effectiveness. Ion Torpedoes are pretty much in the same boat.
    Quantum Torpedo: A much more powerful speciality weapon. Used only when no other weapon can do the job. On the Federation has them and only in limited quantities. Rated at 60+ isotons they are decidly superior to photn torpedoes. It should be noted that Quantum torpedo performance is not effected by the absence of a warp drive.
    Plasma Torpedoes A Gorn and Romulan weapon that is being used less and less. The Torpedo is a warp three ball of specially designed plasma that converts to energy when it strikes it's target. Extremely powerful at short ranges the weapon loses some potency at range as it expend plasma to follow it's target.

    Star Wars
    Energy Torpedo: An older less refined version of the Proton Torpedo. This is basically a Concussion missile wrapped in an energy coccon when fired. The ports are easily disguised to look like Concussion Missile ports. Energy Torpedoes are not quite as powerful as Proton Torpedoes but are still effective ways for a fighter sized craft to threaten Capital Ships
    Proton Torpedoes: A heavy explosive missile wrapped in a Proton field so as to prevent them from detonating on random debris instead of their intended target. These weapons make Fighters a credible threat against smaller capitla ships and a nuissance against the larger ones. There is a slightly heavier model with more power.
    Concussion Missiles Concussion missiles are the workhorse projectile Coming in three grades Normal, Heavy and Assault. The normal model are slightly inferior to the Proton Torpedo, but are legal and unless you have good instruments hard to spot as they don't glow. Heavy varieties pack the punch of the Proton Torpedoes, but lack the sheathing. Assault are the Bombardment missles as powerful as Heavy Turbo Lasers, but horribly expensive.

    Advantage: Star Wars by power level and launch methods as they is no way a Federation ship can match a Squadron of Fighters for number of tordpedoes launched at once.
    There was a series of the original Star Trek, I think it was "A Balance of Power". In that series the Romulans were distroying outpost along the nutral zone and when the Enterprise went to investigate, the Romulans fired on them. At this point the Romulans had already distroyed 2 or 3 outposts. Anyway, the Enterprise went after them and they fired on the Enterprise and the ship went to full astern. The weapon had unlimited range and it was a plasma beam. What type of plasma weapon was that?

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