Star Wars vs Star Trek

[Nasor]

Not really. Power doesn't judge techonology.

Of course it does. A 10^32 joule blast requires almost unimaginably advanced technology. That's many thousands of times the yeary output of the sun.

I'm sure if the Federation built a moon size station It too would have the same capablities.

You'd need to prove that the Federation wouldn't be capable of building such a station. It's not an evil organization bent on Galactic conquest.

The Federation never even considered building such a weapon when they were facing almost certain assimilation by the Borg, or defeat by the Dominion.

[Saquist]

not really. It's a judgement of power not tech.

TEch can be judge by how effieciently it does something compared to other tech.

compared to how small that technology maybe to others...and the number of functions it acomplishes over other technology.

The amount of power a technology generates isn't of it's self a sign of superior technolgoy

[Starduster3]

I'm sure you are right, but I just like to dive into the "what if" realm and speculate. I have a lot of emagination and I like to use it. The Enterprise-F where it ripped through that other ship like tissue paper. I don't remember the episode, but it was the one with Will R. as the captain. That's the type of power I'm talking about, but I guess if the ships were totally indestrucable then it wouldn't be that interesting. You know, winning all the time. It would get boring. I love to read these threads. It puts my imagination into overtime. Later dude.

[Saquist]

That's not an epsidoe I've seen.

I believe that was an episode of ENTERPRISE, and I just wasn't into that show at all. That says alot because DS-9 was another I wasn't into...but I could easily recongnise it as TREK and it was very difficult to mold my mine to that reality.

[TW Scott]

TW SCOTT

You still haven't shown exact cannon variables.

I have provided variable BELOW what is seen on screen moron. Which Means my estimates are extreme lower end and even they are MUCH MORE POWERFUL than any Federation, Romulan, Klingon, Voth, Hirogen, or Borg weapon.

If reasonable means never admiting when you're wrong then I should inform Webster & Merriam that there definition is WAY OFF.

If I was wrong I would admit it, I'm not so I don't have to.

It is FUNNY. THAT's EXACTLY what I do. Like a farmer looking for ripe cherry. The perfectly sweet and juicey pick will never steer you wrong

And 8.9 is not impressive. It is both top speed and max sustainable speed on any other ship in Star Fleet...save for Prometheus....There is a considerable distance between the two. Defiant thus is standing still on speed performance cause no ship is gonna have a problem sustaining 8.9.

Big whooop...

By the way...

Those stats...are completely "un cannon"

I have used information provided by Paramount as Canon, since Paramount decides what is canon, then you are obviously up shit creek and exposed as a liar and fraud..

You're still wrong. Defiant isn't the fastest by any measure. But if you have to be right all the time, knock yourself out. You spouted more uncannon material since your speech on what's canon.

ctually the material is completely canon and accurate, and I am right. I was wrong in assuming the top speed of the Sovereign class, but with the material I just posted I have corrected my thinking. It's just terribly sad that you fail to see Star Trek canon for what it is. It is also upsetting that you fail to recognize Paramounts authority. And just disturnbing that you cannot spell.

Defiants top speed is 8.9 (sketchy) ie...you're in error.

And again you ignore the canon material. Just step out of the argument if you will not play by the rules.

uncanon.

Canon

sure it is. I just proved you can't speak the truth. I proved a negative. You...

No, all you proved was that your reading comprehension is practically nonexistant, either that or you have a serious case of denial

Two problems:
1: Movie has higher canon than books. If someone in a book fired a turbolaser and failed to vaporize a humn, ESB trumps that. Rules of the game.
2: Yuzhan Vong have shown remarkable ability to create energy absorbing and resistant organisms. Case in point the ampistaves that can block a lightsaber and the armor that can deflect light blasters.

and reason has a higher reliablity than whats canon, not to mention numercialy it's in the books favor by all to one.

Well then if we go by reason Warp drives do not work, neither do transporters, interspecies breeding, Q, the Borg and just about everything Star Trek. Here's the upshot movies are the high canon, where anything directly disputes the movies, the movies win. If you have a problem with that I suggest tasering yourself to unscramble your brain.

If you'd be marching the canon path straight and true....I'd MIGHT agree with you...but you haven't and you haven't proven that logic and reason on your side either. In fact you've proven that the only thing that matters is...

Your...variables
Your...opinion
Your...discretion
Your...ruling

You don't need mine or anyone elses consensus...You don't intend to ever be wrong. Of course I'd like to hear you say it. Just once, you know..."I'm never wrong"

Well, I have admitted i was wrong, when I was. As for some of the things you are most pissed about would you rather I just go with the Star Wars figure that Light Turbo lasers release the equivalent energy of 12.5 gigatons of TNT? That is thousands of times more powerful than my calculations so it would be millions of times more power than a Galaxy class Starships shields. Is that what you want, to be thoroughly outclassed in every respect?

I won't bother responding with any amount of respect on the tech bit on the Genesis Device...It was lame.

Yes, the truth is lame, I'm sorry about that, but I didn't invent it, unlike you and your facts.

[Nasor]

not really. It's a judgement of power not tech.

Are you seriously arguing that a civilization could create a power source that generates more energy in a few seconds than a star produces in thousands of years without having awesome, mind-bogglingly advanced technology?

The amount of power a technology generates isn't of it's self a sign of superior technolgoy

Ah, right. Even though Federation weapons don't have the raw energy output of the death star's super laser, maybe they have weapons that are in their own way just as good, or even better. Because we all remember that episode where the Federation was about to be assimilated by the Borg, so they brought out their awesome planet-smashing weapons, put them on ships that could travel across the galaxy in a few days, and blew up the Borg home planets. Or when the Dominion was about to conquer the Federation, so they sent a ship with a planet-killing weapon to the Founder homeworld and threatened to turn the planet into an asteroid field if the founders didn't call off their Jem Hadar invasion force.

Oh, wait - that never happened. In both cases the Federation fought with the same old antimatter missiles and beam weapons that can't even blow up a large asteroid, let alone a planet, and only survived because they were very lucky. Your assertions that the Federation is able to build weapons comparable to the death star is easily shown to be false by the fact that they never did it, even in desperate situations where they were almost certainly going to be killed.

[TW Scott]

That's not an epsidoe I've seen.

I believe that was an episode of ENTERPRISE, and I just wasn't into that show at all. That says alot because DS-9 was another I wasn't into...but I could easily recongnise it as TREK and it was very difficult to mold my mine to that reality.

It was TNG "All good Things..." the final episodes of The Next Generation. And the Enterprise used was an Uprated Galaxy Class Plus having Three warp nacelles. It was obviously a special refit made for Admiral Riker.

[Jan Gaarni]

Star Wars canon
Highest Canon:
Movies
Script
(Movie)Novels
Radio Dramatisations

In that order.

After that comes everything else, books, tech manuels, comics, etc., except the Infinities.
Here and there there will pop up higher canon, for instance in the foreword by Lucas in the, lets see if I remember this correctly, the Splinter of the Mind's Eye novel?

How to judge:
In the movies, everything is correct, except a few minor glitches.
Mostly these are of technical nature, such as every imperial officers in RotJ are either a Lieutenant or a Commander according to their rank badges. That includes Fleet Admiral Piett. Or Greedo shooting first!
Bloopers is something that happens in all movies, and are un-intentional.

Next, the 3 other high canon sources, are correct unless they conflict with the source above it. Movie novels overrule radio dramas, scripts overrule both of them, and movies overrule them all.

The secondary canon sources, if you will, are judged for their correctness from event to event, and not as a whole. So while some parts of a book for instance is wrong, while other parts may be right, or does not conflict, does not mean that the whole book should be thrown out as an un-official work.

So say Lucas Licensing.
It is their express policy.
This is not a matter of personal opinion.

So while I may dislike the change GL did with Greedo shooting first, I can only accept it as the right way things went down, until he changes it back, which will never happen.

[Nickelodeon]

It was TNG "All good Things..." the final episodes of The Next Generation. And the Enterprise used was an Uprated Galaxy Class Plus having Three warp nacelles. It was obviously a special refit made for Admiral Riker.

[Jan Gaarni]

Wasn't there a rule that was broken there, that Roddenbery put down?
Warp ships had either 2, 4, 6, etc nacelles, not 3, 1, 5?

I seem to remember I heard about something like taht.

[TW Scott]

Wasn't there a rule that was broken there, that Roddenbery put down?
Warp ships had either 2, 4, 6, etc nacelles, not 3, 1, 5?

I seem to remember I heard about something like taht.

It would if each of those pods did not actualy consist of 2 warp nacelles. Good eye and good attention to detail.

[Saquist]

NASOR

Are you seriously arguing that a civilization could create a power source that generates more energy in a few seconds than a star produces in thousands of years without having awesome, mind-bogglingly advanced technology?

I won't validate tech specifications that have not be confirmed by canon.

The Genesis Device is the only "doomsay" weapon Star Fleet ever produced. The explosion would have destroyed anything...If not for the Genesis Wave.

Infact it would turned the Death Star into a viable planetary body suitable for life.

Now that's power...two meters long and very portable.

It was TNG "All good Things..." the final episodes of The Next Generation. And the Enterprise used was an Uprated Galaxy Class Plus having Three warp nacelles. It was obviously a special refit made for Admiral Riker.

Yes, the epsidoe that didn't happen. The writters admitted this was a Q fun world.

JAN

How to judge:
In the movies, everything is correct, except a few minor glitches.
Mostly these are of technical nature, such as every imperial officers in RotJ are either a Lieutenant or a Commander according to their rank badges. That includes Fleet Admiral Piett. Or Greedo shooting first!
Bloopers is something that happens in all movies, and are un-intentional.

How do we resolve Princess Leia remembering her mother when according to cannon she never knew her?

How do we resolve the Previous tech from the last triolloy being inferior to the first trilogy?

Wasn't there a rule that was broken there, that Roddenbery put down?
Warp ships had either 2, 4, 6, etc nacelles, not 3, 1, 5?

I seem to remember I heard about something like taht.

He said that the three nacelles created a instablity that imperfectly made engines couldn't hope to balance.

That was quoted in the Star FLight Chronology with the USS Triton class. That makes sense because magnetic fields work the same way...There's no such thing as a third pole.

Two engines act as one...four engines act as 2 and so on and so on, except for six engines which would act as three...

I don't believe that would work which is likely why Prometheus doesn't work. Warp theory has a remarkable semblance to unified field theory,

[invert_nexus]

And just disturnbing that you cannot spell.

Muahahahahaa!!
I LOVE the irony.
Why does it always happen this way?
Is there a spirit that punishes idiots that resort to the 'grammar patrol' fallacy?
Nah. Probably the Red Car Syndrome is all.
Still...
Ha!

It was obviously a special refit made for Admiral Riker.

Oh. And since I've dipped in for a quick laugh. Might as well comment on this.
If you wish to discount 'special' ships, then shouldn't the Death Star be discounted as well? Surely you're not going to claim that it rolled off an assembly line.

[Nasor]

NASOR

I won't validate tech specifications that have not be confirmed by canon.

Are you now saying that the destruction of Alderan isn't part of the cannon?!? That was pretty clear in the first movie...

The Genesis Device is the only "doomsay" weapon Star Fleet ever produced. The explosion would have destroyed anything...If not for the Genesis Wave.

Infact it would turned the Death Star into a viable planetary body suitable for life.

Now that's power...two meters long and very portable.

Then why didn't they didn't use the Genesis device on the Borg? Why did they let a single Borg cube destroy most of star fleet and almost assimilate Earth if they could have simply used the Genesis device on it? Why didn't they threaten the Dominion with it? You keep claiming that they have these great weapons, but clearly they don't, because they never use them - even when everyone on earth is about to be turned into a Borg drone. If you're not going to use it then, when would you ever use it?

[invert_nexus]

Then why didn't they didn't use the Genesis device on the Borg?

Because the research was lost?
Maybe?

Just because the technology exists to create any certain instantiation, doesn't mean that it will be occur to someone to do it.

[TW Scott]

Because the research was lost?
Maybe?

Just because the technology exists to create any certain instantiation, doesn't mean that it will be occur to someone to do it.

Becuase the researc on the Genesis device was abandoned the same way one would abandon an technology that was so disasterous. Not only that, but in all reality the research was terribly flawed. The only reason it worked was Protomatter and even then it was a crap shoot.

And believe me considering the threat of the Borg and Dominion if the Federation was capable of building a Death Star they'd have built one and called her Enterprise.

[invert_nexus]

And believe me considering the threat of the Borg and Dominion if the Federation was capable of building a Death Star they'd have built one and called her Enterprise.

If someone thought of it.
And they had time.

[TW Scott]

NASOR

I won't validate tech specifications that have not be confirmed by canon.

The Genesis Device is the only "doomsay" weapon Star Fleet ever produced. The explosion would have destroyed anything...If not for the Genesis Wave.

Infact it would turned the Death Star into a viable planetary body suitable for life.

Now that's power...two meters long and very portable.

There was no indication that it would have done anything beyound a surface transformation and even then no indication that it would work on shielded matter.

Given the nature of this device it might have been only the two prototypes that worked at all. The first seemed stable, the second however was decidely unstable.

Yes, the epsidoe that didn't happen. The writters admitted this was a Q fun world.

So, there was only a question asked about it, no need to be snotty.

How do we resolve Princess Leia remembering her mother when according to cannon she never knew her?

People convince themselves that they remember stuff that never happened all the time. Hell for all we know she may have been referring to her adoptive mother thinking she was her real mother.

How do we resolve the Previous tech from the last triolloy being inferior to the first trilogy?

How do we know it is inferior, oh that's right, we don't. In fact the armor looks lighter but is obviously the same strength, the blaster carbine Stormtrooper carry are every bit as effective as the larger SAW sized weaponry carried by clone troopers. Some of the other devices we just didn't see in Episodes 4, 5, and 6

[TW Scott]

If someone thought of it.
And they had time.

Well, obviously they didn't and the prime reason that being as over achieving as humans do not think of something is that we don't believe it possible. Remember that the Galaxy Class starship was the largest ship designed by the Federation. The design team even had to cut some corners on safety to make it as large and fast and powerful as it was. In otherwords as an engineering feat it was the best the Federations most brilliant engineers could create as a mobile system. This says something.

[TW Scott]

Muahahahahaa!!
I LOVE the irony.
Why does it always happen this way?
Is there a spirit that punishes idiots that resort to the 'grammar patrol' fallacy?
Nah. Probably the Red Car Syndrome is all.
Still...
Ha!

It is kinda funny actually. The thing is I would not have said a word if he kept to just one spelling of canon.

Oh. And since I've dipped in for a quick laugh. Might as well comment on this.
If you wish to discount 'special' ships, then shouldn't the Death Star be discounted as well? Surely you're not going to claim that it rolled off an assembly line.

Actually, I was not going to discount it, just making an accurate description of the ship. It is still not nearly a match for a Star Destroyer, or even a Corellian Corvette, but at least it would not get easily smoked by Slave One.