Star Wars vs Star Trek

[esp]

I Think that Trekaida has hit upon an important point in that there is to my knowledge no evidence that SW vessels have the capability to combat at speeds greater than c. Without weapons which can create their own FTL bubble (of whatever sort), any vessel fighting at supra-light speeds would face the unsavoury possibility of being damaged by their own offensive systems.

[beenjammin2lp]

forget yall, dune would win because i would command them...hehe...i love that game...i wish they would like expand on it....or update it or something....i have played every map...

[I-one]

ok.... empire and Romulans would make a treaty and united they concure all!

[esp]

ok.... empire and Romulans would make a treaty and united they concure all!

I believe that if cross-scenario alliances were allowed then there would be far more powerful races for the Empire to ally themselves with. 8472, The Dominion or the Borg for example. Why not even the Q Continuum? The Romulans simply aren't players.

[Roman]

Are there any really brutal races in ST? Because if there are, they could relese a virus and wipe out the clone troopers.

The main heros of SW are far stronger than the main heros of ST. Vader would totally kick the Borg Queen's ass. All he has to do is levitate/choke her to death. Luke Skywalker could kill the entire Enterprise crew single handedly.
The only real threat would be Q, and then ST would win hands down.

[Nasor]

I believe that if cross-scenario alliances were allowed then there would be far more powerful races for the Empire to ally themselves with. 8472, The Dominion or the Borg for example. Why not even the Q Continuum? The Romulans simply aren't players.

The Dominion would probably be the only race that the Empire would be interested in allying with. Species 8472 seams to be totally anti-social, and it’s not clear in the Empire would even be technologically capable of accessing the ‘fluidic subspace’ where they live. The Borg would probably just have to be wiped out.

But allying with any one race would probably hardly be worth the Empire’s time; they have an entire galaxy resources to draw on, so why would they bother allying with a race that only has a few dozen or hundred systems? No one but the Borg has demonstrated the possible capacity to match the Empire’s technological and industrial ability…and they aren’t likely to ally with anyone, even if the Empire was interested.

[Roman]

In the 14 pages of thread, have we set up any parameters for this epic battle of mythos?

For instance, Star Trek has the Q, which should be removed for fairness' sake, and the shields in Dune react explosively to lasers. Would that mean the Dune lazgun would detonate Trek shields?

[jsph27]

I like star wars because it has Natalie Portman. That is all.

[OpteronGuy]

Now I haven't read all 14 pages of this only a few but here's what I think...

Dune > *.

Maud'Dib + Leto II + Prescience + Fedaykin + Bene Gesserit + Mentats + Sardaukar + Honored Matres + Guild = Insta death for SW and ST.

Throw in some Ixian thinking machines and Face Dancers and life is pretty much toasted for the SW and ST peoples.

This is all if we take Q out for fairness. Although with Prescient abilities Leto II or Maud'Dib could predict the Q's.

I think there needs to be a setting up of a battle between the forces.

[Roman]

Dune doesn't have faster than light travel, unlike ST and SW. Who knows if the prescient abilities of Navigators or a Kwisatz Haderach extend into vessels that travel faster than light. We do know that Maud'dib and his descendents were unable to see into places with Guild Navigators or Ixian no-ships.

No-ships may be able to jump ST and SW ships, as they cloak in another dimension.

The Honored Matres and their fighting prowess may be a match for Jedi, but without the ability to do force manipulations, they probably wouldn't be able to fight them very well. Bashar Teg discovered a way to move exceptionally fast; fast enough that life would slow down to a crawl. If others were trained in such a way, perhaps the Dune universe would be able to take Jedi in melee combat.

The Holtzmann generators, or shields, in Dune create a nuclear explosion when hit with a laser, both at the generator and the lazgun. Would this reaction carry over into Trek and SW universes?

[OpteronGuy]

Dunes faster than light travel was using the Holtzman generators to fold space. Granted this is not traditional hyperspace/warp of ST and SW however it seems to me that the ability to jump from one point to another instantly would be a far great asset than having to wade through hyperspace/warp.

I agree that no-ships would be able to possibly jump the SW and ST ships due to them being in another dimension.

I don't think the Honored Matres alone would be able to take Jedi. Instead it would have to be a Honored Matre/Bene Gesserit hybrid like Murbella to take them on. Using Voice they could possibly just command the Jedi to not use any Force. However that could also be countered with a mighty "Jedi Mind Trick."

I think that the Holtzman/Lasgun explosion could carry over, although it would mean a quick end to alot of battles.

[Roman]

You know, the voice didn't work on the Fremen so much as drive them angry. What makes you think it would work on Jedi? Also, it may be of no use on alien species. Remember that the Gesserit have only experience with humans, and have trained for such.

I think hybrids like Bashar would only be able to take true Jedi or Sith (think lightening).

The Matres, Gesserit, or pretty much any fighting force from Dune would shred the Borg, as no one in the Dune universe uses energy weapons. A simple flechette would end the collective.

[OpteronGuy]

That's true about Voice. It's been awhile since I read the original Dune, but Jedi are still human, the BG as you stated have only experience with humans. From what I can recall at the moment, didn't the BG use Voice on the Tleiaxu in Heretics? I could be wrong as it's been awhile since I read Heretics as well.

As for Bashar I agree that he would be a far better match to a Jedi, but he was the result of accident. I again forget off hand who it was that was doing the torture to him that cause him to become what he became, but unless you could find more like that then the Jedi are going to have a huge upper hand. Unless the HM/BG hybrid found a way to fight them. Also the HM had that weapon of mass destruction in the end of Chapterhouse that would just kill anyone that wasn't them. How Teg, Duncan and whoever else made it through that I'll never know as I never did figure out what that weapon was.

As for the Borg, yeah I agree.

[Roman]

Some Jedi are human, some aren't (like Darth Maul or Yoda). The Tleiaxu are still considered human, I believe. I mean, the females gestate gholas, so they have to be pretty close, and the Bene Gesserit study and watch them anyway.

I was going to mention that weapon, too, but figured everbody had some kinda neutron bomb and wasn't worth mentioning. I forgot that it only targeted those who you wanted it to. It was a secret Tleiaxu weapon, as I recall. Would Trek scanners detect no-space, as I remember Trek scanned the dimensions around their spaceship (maybe?).

Lightsabers+personal forcefield = bad news, no effect or impenetrable?

[OpteronGuy]

Good call on the Jedi, I forgot about that. As for the Tleilaxu I think they are human (I know in Brian Herberts book the race that is the start of the Tlielaxu are human) however I am not sure. The females.. Well.. Being as those are used as axlotl tanks.. I um, that's just gross. Moving on!

As for "the weapon" I don't know who it came from. I remember mentions of how technology outside the empire after the scattering had developed past that of the tech within it. And is that how it worked? It would only target those who the HM wanted it to target? Interesting. This would explain some of the ending in Chapterhouse.

Now, lightsabers + PF's ... Bad news if you ask me. In Brian Herberts books there is an incident where a slave fires a lasgun round into a group of guards with personal shields.. Well.. It didn't end well and since (from what I can gather) lightsabers are basically some sort of lasers.. Well....

[OpteronGuy]

Crap! Forgot about the scanning of Trek. Honestly, I don't know. I don't think they could or did, but they might have. I would have to start doing more Trek research.

Wait! The Romulans and the Klingons had cloaking technology and they couldn't be detected on Trek scanners. If no-ships are in an entire other dimension and could be picked up on Trek scanners then why couldn't the cloaked ships in Trek? Does that make any sense? Dear god I've spent to many hours on this site! Need sleep!

[Nasor]

The Fedaykin, Bene Gesserit, Mentats, Sadaukar, Honored Matres, etc. are all totally irrelevant. Being good at knife fighting and mind tricks doesn’t do you any good when a squadron of star destroyers comes to turn the surface of your planet into molten slag.

Couldn’t the SW or ST forces immediately force the entire Dune universe into submission by simply sending a fleet to Arakis and threatening to glass the planet if the Guild and Great Houses don’t surrender unconditionally?

The only advantage that I could think of for the Dune universe would be their instantaneous FTL travel – since even Imperial ships with hyperdrives can take days to get from one part of the galaxy to another, it’s possible that the forces of Dune could keep their opponents off balance by striking without warning and then retreating before any opposition can arrive. Even then, there are still many unanswered questions. Are Dune ships even capable of bringing down the planetary shields that protect most important SW planets? How long does it take a Dune ship’s jump drive and navigator to recover after they fold space? Will the Dune ships explode catastrophically as soon as someone shines a powerful laser on them?

[OpteronGuy]

In hand to hand it would seem to me (Minus the Jedi here) that the Dune characters would annihilate the SW and ST guys. Sardaukar are bred killing machines. Nothing more, nothing less. Fedaykin are pretty much the same. Mentats would make excellent battle field commanders with their ability to make powerful tactical decisions on the fly.

And yes, they could, but where do you think the primary defence forces would be in the world of Dune? Guarding Arrakis. Also from my understanding the ships of Dune aren't weaklings by any strech. If you look at the prequels the ballista and javalin style battleships were a match for anything in space. Also with those were hangers for fighter cover.

Now, as for planetary shields if we go by the Holtzman effect when a laser hits them then once a shield is struck by a laser, an atomic reaction occurs, which to me would spell the end of a planet in one hit. As for how long the re-coup time is for a Navigator.. I don't know, nothing is ever mentioned of that. And will Dune ships explode if a laser is shined on them? I doubt it. Since they don't use shields then they don't have to worry about the atomic reaction causing insta death.

[Nasor]

In hand to hand it would seem to me (Minus the Jedi here) that the Dune characters would annihilate the SW and ST guys. Sardaukar are bred killing machines. Nothing more, nothing less. Fedaykin are pretty much the same. Mentats would make excellent battle field commanders with their ability to make powerful tactical decisions on the fly.

I agree that the infantry in Dune would probably massacre anything they came across from the SW or ST universe with little trouble – but that just doesn’t matter much in the grand scheme of things. Being a great infantry fighter doesn't do any good against orbital turbo-laser bombardment.

And yes, they could, but where do you think the primary defence forces would be in the world of Dune? Guarding Arrakis.

This is a major strategic disadvantage for the Dune universe. They have a single planet that they absolutely cannot afford to lose, which means a large percentage of their fleet is always going to be tied up defending it. Destroying Corosant or Earth would be bad for the SW or ST universes, but it wouldn't mean the complete collapse of their civilization.

Now, as for planetary shields if we go by the Holtzman effect when a laser hits them then once a shield is struck by a laser, an atomic reaction occurs, which to me would spell the end of a planet in one hit.

Since the shields in SW and ST don't explode when hit by lasers, we can safely assume that they don't work off the Holtzman effect.

And will Dune ships explode if a laser is shined on them? I doubt it. Since they don't use shields then they don't have to worry about the atomic reaction causing insta death.

Woops - you're right, I forgot that Dune ships don't use shields for exactly that reason. This would seem to be a terrible disadvantage for the Dune universe. SW and ST both have shields that can shrug off large nuclear blasts or greater. If Dune ships don't even have shields, it would seem that only one or two hits would be necessary to destroy them.

[Nasor]

On a totally unrelated note about Dune: if the people in Dune weren’t so computer-phobic could they just build digital navigational computers for navigating their ships through a space fold? Wouldn’t that let them completely do away with the Spacing Guild and their reliance on the spice? It seems likely, since they obviously had FTL travel of some sort before the spice was discovered. That’s something that always really bugged me about the dune universe. The Guild was always threatening to cut off planets, but wouldn’t the people eventually just say “Screw our religion – we’re building nav computers, damn it!”