Star Wars vs Star Trek

**TW Scott** · 05-03-06, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by daylight

lol, good job destoying one borg ship,, now what about the other ones. i hope you didnt lose any ships in that conflict, it would be ashamed if they were assimilated.

Actually I only had to fire two cannons on one ship, oh and did you return fire with a popgun oh how cute.

The borg is best race to win a war on the universal scale. They have unique abilities that i have pointed out in my previous post acouple of pages back.

Except they can't even assimilate one half advanced race. Now you're saying they could compete with someone who would destroy the Voth of Hirogen without even breaking a sweat? Yeah right.

**daylight** · 05-03-06, 09:25 PM

Originally Posted by thedevilsreject

well stars wars do have bases on all planets so they have the capability to lauch an assault fro anywhere in the universe

planetary bases would be vulnerable in interstellar combat, the death star was designed to take out planetery bases but there are other ways of dealing with a planet.
Plantary bombarbment with space objects such as asteriods, parts of local moons.
Just bombard from orbit or from deep space with you energy/nuke/whatever you got type weapon.
Unless you want to keep the planet i see no reason why you cant just bombard till nothing is left.

**daylight** · 05-03-06, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by TW Scott

Actually I only had to fire two cannons on one ship, oh and did you return fire with a popgun oh how cute.

Except they can't even assimilate one half advanced race. Now you're saying they could compete with someone who would destroy the Voth of Hirogen without even breaking a sweat? Yeah right.

Your not giving any reason why the borg would lose, your just saying i'll shot them and they'll die. That is not a compelling arguement. What abilities do they have that would help them prevail? I've previously stated what the borg can do that no other species can do.
What can the Voth do that make then better then the borg, and dont just say they got better guns/ships/tech. Why are they better, what abilities make them better. What factors in the SW universe make SW better?

**TW Scott** · 05-03-06, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by daylight

planetary bases would be vulnerable in interstellar combat, the death star was designed to take out planetery bases but there are other ways of dealing with a planet.
Plantary bombarbment with space objects such as asteriods, parts of local moons.
Just bombard from orbit or from deep space with you energy/nuke/whatever you got type weapon.
Unless you want to keep the planet i see no reason why you cant just bombard till nothing is left.

Small problem the Death Star was designed to be able to penetrate planetary shield and destroy the planet. This was for a reason as a major world had plentary shielding so powerful you could drop Luna on them and they'd vaporize it. Plenetary bombardment against a Star Wars world is not an option.

**daylight** · 05-03-06, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by daylight

Your saying the Empire will kill the Hirogen, and there will be one less race to have to fight against..

The borg would not do that, the borg would assimilate and there would not be a net lost off availible assets to wage war with. You would not have one less race to fight but rather an enemy that has increased its might. How will your SW universe deal with the exponetial growth of the Borg.

See this is why the borg are better. They can do things like this.

**daylight** · 05-03-06, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by TW Scott

Small problem the Death Star was designed to be able to penetrate planetary shield and destroy the planet. This was for a reason as a major world had plentary shielding so powerful you could drop Luna on them and they'd vaporize it. Plenetary bombardment against a Star Wars world is not an option.

LOL, my god that is the most stupid thing i have read.
You are saying SW planetary shield is strong enough to withstand the purposeful impact of a moon? Your saying the shields would not only withstand the impact but vaporize the entire moon? Where does this liberty of the imagination come from?
Your mind is small.

**daylight** · 05-03-06, 09:56 PM

If we can take such liberties as this TW Scott, let me take a liberty.
The borg have timetravel abilities, they would go back in time and prevent important events from taking place, such as the creation of the first deathstar. Or maybe prevent the Jedi council from forming, or even prevent the jedi from becoming. Kill the planet yoda was born on before he was born. Do that to every important figure in SW universe. No longer will the borg attempt conflict with the figure but instead seek to prevent its creation. Millions of borg ships all going back in time to prevent existence.

**TW Scott** · 05-03-06, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by daylight

Your not giving any reason why the borg would lose, your just saying i'll shot them and they'll die. That is not a compelling arguement. What abilities do they have that would help them prevail? I've previously stated what the borg can do that no other species can do.
What can the Voth do that make then better then the borg, and dont just say they got better guns/ships/tech. Why are they better, what abilities make them better. What factors in the SW universe make SW better?

First of all I have explained time and time again the firepower of Star Destroyers. The firepower a single Turbolaser has is in excess of 1 quintillion calories(10^18) or 4.28 quintillion Joules. This is a modest estimate based only on visual data and no EU. Now a Imperial class Star Destroyer has 60 of these and 6 Ion cannons with a wattage of roughly 900 quadrillion (10^15) per shot by above conservative estimates. Now this far out strips the 64 quadrillion calorie Photon torpedo or the 128 quadrillion calorie Quantum torpedo, not to mention the 10 quadrillion calorie Phaser XII emitter mounted on the Soveriegn class. It is also far exceeding the 82 quadrillion calorie shields of a Galaxy Class Cruiser.

Now I know all of these are a bit impressive, but taken as they are almost too dry. So we will put it in in outputs easier to understand.

Galaxy class Starship: Maximum Forward Firepower: 1.06 quintillion calories every ten-fifteen seconds. Maximum Shielding. 82 quadrillion calories or if boosted to 164 quadrillion calories for limited time

Imperial Class Star Destroyer: Maximum Forward Firepower: 60 quintillion calories and 54 quitillion watts every 3 seconds Maximum Shielding: 17.5 quintillion calories

Borg Cube: Maximum Firepower: 1.06 to 2.12 quintillion calories per ten seconds. Shielding: 2-3 quintillion calories with an ability to analyze atacks and improve by roughly 50%.

Now if we were to give all sides the same tactical and strategic ability it still comes out the Stars Wars as each Star Destroyer is worth 60 Galaxy class Starships and we now a dozen Galaxy class ships can take a cube. So one Star Destroyer with no support can take 5 cubes in 3 seconds.

**TW Scott** · 05-03-06, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by daylight

LOL, my god that is the most stupid thing i have read.
You are saying SW planetary shield is strong enough to withstand the purposeful impact of a moon? Your saying the shields would not only withstand the impact but vaporize the entire moon? Where does this liberty of the imagination come from?
Your mind is small.

So my mind is small for actually reading the books. My mind is small to actually wrap my mind around what they were talking about. I got the notion from several sources.

A. ESB they said the shield were powerful enough to withstand any bombardment. Now there was an asteroid field a short ways away, some simple strap on ion engines and you could pound the place with asteroids that make the one in Armageddon look small and slow. But they didn't, why?

B. When Grand Admiral thrawn used cloaked asteroids to basically seal up Coruscant he didn't think any past the first would do any damage despite the speed they were coming in.

C. In the Yuzhan Vong invasion they never tried the moon dropping trick on a shielded world, even one they wished to completely raze like Coruscant.

Seems my notion is not so ridiculous but your accussations certainly are.

**TW Scott** · 05-03-06, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by daylight

If we can take such liberties as this TW Scott, let me take a liberty.
The borg have timetravel abilities, they would go back in time and prevent important events from taking place, such as the creation of the first deathstar. Or maybe prevent the Jedi council from forming, or even prevent the jedi from becoming. Kill the planet yoda was born on before he was born. Do that to every important figure in SW universe. No longer will the borg attempt conflict with the figure but instead seek to prevent its creation. Millions of borg ships all going back in time to prevent existence.

I took no liberties as I have noted. I made logical assumptions based on the tech level and events. You however are ignoring one thing. The Borg tried timetravel once and failed. They have not done so again. That is canon.

**thedevilsreject** · 05-04-06, 10:16 AM

this thread should have been star wars vs star trek and no more, i still think that star wars would have won

**Hapsburg** · 05-04-06, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by houseofknowledge

send clone troopers to get rid off the borgs.

Nah, even better: Stormtrooper Brawlers or Storm Shocktroopers AND Darktroopers. Better armor + more awesome weaponry = dead ST.

**thedevilsreject** · 05-04-06, 04:16 PM

i just thought what if the borgs had assimilated darth then that would not be good

**daylight** · 05-04-06, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by TW Scott

First of all I have explained time and time again the firepower of Star Destroyers. The firepower a single Turbolaser has is in excess of 1 quintillion calories(10^18) or 4.28 quintillion Joules. This is a modest estimate based only on visual data and no EU. Now a Imperial class Star Destroyer has 60 of these and 6 Ion cannons with a wattage of roughly 900 quadrillion (10^15) per shot by above conservative estimates. Now this far out strips the 64 quadrillion calorie Photon torpedo or the 128 quadrillion calorie Quantum torpedo, not to mention the 10 quadrillion calorie Phaser XII emitter mounted on the Soveriegn class. It is also far exceeding the 82 quadrillion calorie shields of a Galaxy Class Cruiser.

Now I know all of these are a bit impressive, but taken as they are almost too dry. So we will put it in in outputs easier to understand.

Galaxy class Starship: Maximum Forward Firepower: 1.06 quintillion calories every ten-fifteen seconds. Maximum Shielding. 82 quadrillion calories or if boosted to 164 quadrillion calories for limited time

Imperial Class Star Destroyer: Maximum Forward Firepower: 60 quintillion calories and 54 quitillion watts every 3 seconds Maximum Shielding: 17.5 quintillion calories

Borg Cube: Maximum Firepower: 1.06 to 2.12 quintillion calories per ten seconds. Shielding: 2-3 quintillion calories with an ability to analyze atacks and improve by roughly 50%.

Now if we were to give all sides the same tactical and strategic ability it still comes out the Stars Wars as each Star Destroyer is worth 60 Galaxy class Starships and we now a dozen Galaxy class ships can take a cube. So one Star Destroyer with no support can take 5 cubes in 3 seconds.

You said, "This is a modest estimate based only on visual data."
I am amazed at your ability to quantify energy by visual examination. I have to wear contacts to even read my computer monitor.
Your figures are just a bunch of jibber, some of those prefixes are just make believe i think. This is from dictionary. com:

Prefixes
A multiple of a unit in the International System is formed by adding a prefix to the name of that unit. The prefixes change the magnitude of the unit by orders of ten from 1018 to 10-18.

Prefix Symbol Multiplying Factor
exa- E 1018 = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000
peta- P 1015 = 1,000,000,000,000,000
tera- T 1012 = 1,000,000,000,000
giga- G 109 = 1,000,000,000
mega- M 106 = 1,000,000
kilo- K 103 = 1,000
hecto- h 102 = 1000
deca- da 10 = 10
deci- d 10-1 = 0.1
centi- c 10-2 = 0.01
milli- m 10-3 = 0.001
micro- 10-6 = 0.000,001
nano- n 10-9 = 0.000,000,001
pico- p 10-12 = 0.000,000,000,001
femto- f 10-15 = 0.000,000,000,000,001
atto- a 10-18 = 0.000,000,000,000,000,001

**daylight** · 05-04-06, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by TW Scott

So my mind is small for actually reading the books. My mind is small to actually wrap my mind around what they were talking about. I got the notion from several sources.

A. ESB they said the shield were powerful enough to withstand any bombardment. Now there was an asteroid field a short ways away, some simple strap on ion engines and you could pound the place with asteroids that make the one in Armageddon look small and slow. But they didn't, why?

B. When Grand Admiral thrawn used cloaked asteroids to basically seal up Coruscant he didn't think any past the first would do any damage despite the speed they were coming in.

C. In the Yuzhan Vong invasion they never tried the moon dropping trick on a shielded world, even one they wished to completely raze like Coruscant.

Seems my notion is not so ridiculous but your accussations certainly are.

Your answer to A, Well maybe the writers didnt want it to end that way? It wouldnt be an interesting universe if all people did was plantery bombardment, what would be the point of having deathstars, star destroyers etc. Why the need for exawatts of energy from these war machines when you can just haverst the local space of matter and bombard away.

Your answer to B, I dont remember what that is from, let me know the source and i'll research it.

Your answer to C, see A.

**daylight** · 05-04-06, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by TW Scott

I took no liberties as I have noted. I made logical assumptions based on the tech level and events. You however are ignoring one thing. The Borg tried timetravel once and failed. They have not done so again. That is canon.

I recall in Voyager seven of nine saying something about how the borg no longer fiddle with the timeline, its to unpredictable, but my memory might be wrong. If i am right then they have the ability to time travel they just choose not to use it. But regardless, in Voyager there is a timetravelling federation ship that enforces the correct timeline, i dont remember the name of the ship but i'm sure it can be found online.
Does canon apply when you make visual estimates on energy output of weapons?

**daylight** · 05-04-06, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by Hapsburg

Nah, even better: Stormtrooper Brawlers or Storm Shocktroopers AND Darktroopers. Better armor + more awesome weaponry = dead ST.

I dont think you understand how the borg would fight.
Let me give 2 example of what might happen in a fight between the 2 universes. These are unlikely but they make my point.

1. 1000borg v. 1000stormtroopers
Outcome= 0 borg, 1000 stormtroopers.

2. 1000borg v. 1000 stormtroopers
Outcome= 2000borg, 0 stormtroopers.

That is the strenght of the borg, what is the enemies will become the borg.

**TW Scott** · 05-04-06, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by daylight

You said, "This is a modest estimate based only on visual data."
I am amazed at your ability to quantify energy by visual examination. I have to wear contacts to even read my computer monitor.
Your figures are just a bunch of jibber, some of those prefixes are just make believe i think. This is from dictionary. com:

Prefixes
A multiple of a unit in the International System is formed by adding a prefix to the name of that unit. The prefixes change the magnitude of the unit by orders of ten from 1018 to 10-18.

Prefix Symbol Multiplying Factor
exa- E 1018 = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000
peta- P 1015 = 1,000,000,000,000,000
tera- T 1012 = 1,000,000,000,000
giga- G 109 = 1,000,000,000
mega- M 106 = 1,000,000
kilo- K 103 = 1,000
hecto- h 102 = 1000
deca- da 10 = 10
deci- d 10-1 = 0.1
centi- c 10-2 = 0.01
milli- m 10-3 = 0.001
micro- 10-6 = 0.000,001
nano- n 10-9 = 0.000,000,001
pico- p 10-12 = 0.000,000,000,001
femto- f 10-15 = 0.000,000,000,000,001
atto- a 10-18 = 0.000,000,000,000,000,001

Please read an actual math or science site like here before you embarass yourself again. We're talking science here so you the American/Scientific terminology.

As for your pathetic attempts at discrediting my estimation I used rough model scaling to find the size of asteroids, determined a composition of what would they would be made of considering the field was noted as being very mineral rich, calcuated the minimum heat required to vaporize those asteroids and then factored in the small details like it being so rapid and convection rates. For ST I used what Paramount says is canon.

**TW Scott** · 05-04-06, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by daylight

Your answer to A, Well maybe the writers didnt want it to end that way?

Ah, but you are failing to realize that if was a true universe there was no writers and your stuck with the answer that it would not have worked. It's called suspension of disbelief.

Your answer to B, I dont remember what that is from, let me know the source and i'll research it.

You really that dense it is from the Thrawn Trilogy. Hgh if you aren't educated about a subject then don't speak on it.

Your answer to C, see A.

Hmmm I covered this ground already.

**TW Scott** · 05-04-06, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by daylight

I dont think you understand how the borg would fight.
Let me give 2 example of what might happen in a fight between the 2 universes. These are unlikely but they make my point.

1. 1000borg v. 1000stormtroopers
Outcome= 0 borg, 1000 stormtroopers.

2. 1000borg v. 1000 stormtroopers
Outcome= 2000borg, 0 stormtroopers.

That is the strenght of the borg, what is the enemies will become the borg.

Actually given SW weaponry live flechette luanchers, ion guns, thermal detonators there is no way the borg will come out with a gain no matter what.