Star Wars vs Star Trek

[Fafnir665]

This is the thread that never ends..
Yes it goes on and on my friends....
Some people, started posting in it not knowing what it was
And they'll continue posting here forever just beeeeecaaaaaaaaauuuuussseeeeeee
This is the thread that never ends...

[mars13]

it will never end,not with all you warsies pulling stuff from your ass like'' ywings outgun borg cubes'' and ''it would take 75 ptorps to take out one xwing''.

not based on the movies i saw.


it goes on and on my friends

[Hukka4Life]

By the way hukka the spead of a photon is not always the speed of light, air, water, and glass can slow up a photon. Imagine was material denser than lead does.

The speed of a photon through hydrogen and helium isn't much slower, actually.

The problem is, of course, that unlike a thin layer of clear glass, water, air, or diamond, which are transparent in the visual spectrum, a thick layer of solar plasma is pretty much opaque to the visual spectrum. It has to get pretty thin in order to have appreciable translucency.

The reason it takes such a long time for energy from the core to go outwards is because the energy takes anything but a straightline path. Absorbed and re-emitted or reflected, the net effect is that the "surface" of the Sun emits essentially as an opaque 5800K shell.

[TW Scott]

It isn't the surface of the sun that does that it is the inner core, core, and convection zone. It passes right through the thin out layers with no problem

[Hukka4Life]

It passes right through the thin out layers with no problem

Through the chromosphere and corona, which are thin, hot, and wispy.

Not through the photosphere, which is what is ~5800K on the surface, and is incidentally named the photosphere because it's the source of all the light we see.

[TW Scott]

The photosphere is the visible surface of the Sun that we are most familiar with. Since the Sun is a ball of gas, this is not a solid surface but is actually a layer about 100 km thick (very, very, thin compared to the 700,000 km radius of the Sun). When we look at the center of the disk of the Sun we look straight in and see somewhat hotter and brighter regions. When we look at the limb, or edge, of the solar disk we see light that has taken a slanting path through this layer and we only see through the upper, cooler and dimmer regions. This explains the "limb darkening" that appears as a darkening of the solar disk near the limb.

A number of features can be observed in the photosphere with a simple telescope (along with a good filter to reduce the intensity of sunlight to safely observable levels). These features include the dark sunspots, the bright faculae, and granules. We can also measure the flow of material in the photosphere using the Doppler effect. These measurements reveal additional features such as supergranules as well as large scale flows and a pattern of waves and oscillations.

taken from here

Sure seems like NASA knows differently than you, so again you display your delusions of adequecy.

[Hukka4Life]

taken from here

Sure seems like NASA knows differently than you, so again you display your delusions of adequecy.

TW Scott, that's exactly what I told you, only with more detail.

What you see is the photosphere. Commonly known as the surface of the sun. And ~5800K. The overall brightness of the Sun corresponds (appropriately) to a black body of that size heated to that temperature.

Heat something to several million degrees, and will far outshine the Sun unless very diffuse - and even very diffuse, it's liable to shine pretty brightly. This rules out the gigatons you would like to claim SW throws around.

[TW Scott]

TW Scott, that's exactly what I told you, only with more detail.

What you see is the photosphere. Commonly known as the surface of the sun. And ~5800K. The overall brightness of the Sun corresponds (appropriately) to a black body of that size heated to that temperature.

Heat something to several million degrees, and will far outshine the Sun unless very diffuse - and even very diffuse, it's liable to shine pretty brightly. This rules out the gigatons you would like to claim SW throws around.

Are you a total moron or just incapable of admitting you are wrong? Oh what am I asking for it is both.

Read it again really slowly and find out why everyone that passed first grade is now laughing at you.

[Hukka4Life]

As appears usual, your claims to my being wrong are completely unfounded. I recommend learning about blackbody radiation. The Sun is (essentially) a 5800K body, and therefore less than 1/5,000,000th as bright as similar body heated to a million kelvins - meaning that even a highly dispersed gas at a million kelvin glows brightly, as the corona does.

Very simple fact of the matter, and outright contradicting your absurd claims for TL firepower.

[mars13]

not to mention tha fact there are NO GT releases of energy in ANY of the movies from ANYTHING but the DS.youd be hard pressed to find ANY examples in the books either,only a tech manual thinks they are GTs.id like to see ONE TL bolt shot a planet make a 300km wide fireball like 1 ptorp can.

someone should tell lucas that TLs are supposed to be GTs not KTs.

[TW Scott]

not to mention tha fact there are NO GT releases of energy in ANY of the movies from ANYTHING but the DS.youd be hard pressed to find ANY examples in the books either,only a tech manual thinks they are GTs.id like to see ONE TL bolt shot a planet make a 300km wide fireball like 1 ptorp can.

someone should tell lucas that TLs are supposed to be GTs not KTs.

First of all the fireball was not 300km wide. Not even slightly. If the fireball was 300km wide the light flash would have been tens of thousands of of kilometers wide. You see you have taken one example and ignored how shows and movies proved you wrong.

Now there has been nothing to prove the claims of the Tech Manuals wrong at all. Nothing. See that how Star Wars canon works the Movies have to prove the EU wrong. It doesn't have validate them, just not directly contradict. Thus the weapons are multi gigaton. Suck it up.


As for you Hukka, i guess you missed the part where NASA said light was passing through the Photosphere. Limb or sun spots as they are more commonly known are the areas where light passes slant ways through. These darker areas are where we see the photoshpere as it appears. No run along the people form mental health will be there soon.

[Hukka4Life]

Now there has been nothing to prove the claims of the Tech Manuals wrong at all.

To say this is to ignore vast piles of canonical evidence...

... in addition to the TMs themselves, which are inconsistent to boot.

It doesn't have validate them, just not directly contradict. Thus the weapons are multi gigaton. Suck it up.

The notion that the weapons are multi-gigaton energy transfer weapons is directly contradicted by the SFX.

i guess you missed the part where NASA said light was passing through the Photosphere.

You're still missing the point of describing the Sun as a 5800K luminous object. It is not merely analogy with the Sun which makes objects bright... it is physical law governing the behavior of heated objects.

[TW Scott]

Okay, Hukka tell me exactly how the Special Effects we see directly and totally refute the power numbers the Star Wars Technical Manual (approved by Lucas). Come on I am waitng.

As for inference I have directly proved to you that the 6000K surface of the Photosphere and 7000 degree surface of the chromosphere provide extremely limted amount of light compared to what we on earth see. So you assertation of how much light is put out by an object heated to 5800 degrees is pointless, and ultimately wrong. Bark up another tree moron.

[Hukka4Life]

Okay, Hukka tell me exactly how the Special Effects we see directly and totally refute the power numbers the Star Wars Technical Manual.

Let's look at what you're claiming. Multi-gigaton light turbolasers, which are (incidentally) used to blast asteroids, which would be heated to millions of degrees if such energy was applied to them - turning them into very brightly glowing, extremely fast moving vapor.

Instead, we see asteroids heated to white-hot, with rapidly cooling, chunky, and slow-moving remains.

As for inference I have directly proved to you that the 6000K surface of the Photosphere and 7000 degree surface of the chromosphere provide extremely limted amount of light compared to what we on earth see. So you assertation of how much light is put out by an object heated to 5800 degrees is pointless, and ultimately wrong. Bark up another tree moron.

TW Scott, you display a complete lack of understanding of black body emissions.

Read here. There is a very good reason why the Sun's apparent temperature, estimated by radiative output, matches very closely with the actual surface temperature... and that's that practically all radiation is emitted from the surface.

Learn this: Emissions are proportional to the fourth power of temperature. Thus, a million degree solid black body is 5 million times as intensely bright as the sun.

[TW Scott]

Let's look at what you're claiming. Multi-gigaton light turbolasers, which are (incidentally) used to blast asteroids, which would be heated to millions of degrees if such energy was applied to them - turning them into very brightly glowing, extremely fast moving vapor.

Instead, we see asteroids heated to white-hot, with rapidly cooling, chunky, and slow-moving remains.

*Watches clip several times and calculates bases joules needed and thermal convection rates of asteroid. Finds match. Watches video again sees no chucky debris. Just luminous clouds of plasma gas. Sees the white hot rapidly cooling and moving vapor as would be normal in such a cold system.*

What movie were you watching? Definately not ESB. Actually more like Voyager and Rise. Except for the white hot part. That doesn't happen till in atmosphere.

TW Scott, you display a complete lack of understanding of black body emissions.

Read here. There is a very good reason why the Sun's apparent temperature, estimated by radiative output, matches very closely with the actual surface temperature... and that's that practically all radiation is emitted from the surface.

Learn this: Emissions are proportional to the fourth power of temperature. Thus, a million degree solid black body is 5 million times as intensely bright as the sun.

Okay, first of all you need a solid black body, heated by unknown means to several million degrees and no rate of expansion or vaporization. In other words you are speaking of a piece of nuetronium heated to several million degrees. You are not talking a gaseous layer of the Sun, or an asteroid that expands and vaporizes into a gas. In other words you are talking out of your ass over a hypothesis. One that makes little sense. Of course radiation and light is emitted by the surface of the sun, but that is not where it is generated, it's just the exit point. Hello are your brains still working.

[Hukka4Life]

*Watches clip several times and calculates bases joules needed and thermal convection rates of asteroid. Finds match. Watches video again sees no chucky debris. Just luminous clouds of plasma gas. Sees the white hot rapidly cooling and moving vapor as would be normal in such a cold system.*

I see you're not frame-by-framing it. It's easy to miss relatively dim orange debris.

Heating an asteroid to white hot, which within one frame explodes less than the diameter of the asteroid (thus, on the order of [i]tens of meter per second of outward velocity) and dims to reddish around the edges is not gigatons. At the very best, it's KT range.

Indeed, the case can and has been made that the asteroids aren't even vaporized as claimed... let alone vaporized excessively to the degree you're claiming.

What movie were you watching? Definately not ESB. Actually more like Voyager and Rise. Except for the white hot part. That doesn't happen till in atmosphere.

Purplish white happens when hit. Not when in atmosphere.

Mind, the impacts themselves suggest that the "Rise" asteroid was in fact much larger than 300m.

Okay, first of all you need a solid black body, heated by unknown means to several million degrees and no rate of expansion or vaporization. In other words you are speaking of a piece of nuetronium heated to several million degrees. You are not talking a gaseous layer of the Sun, or an asteroid that expands and vaporizes into a gas. In other words you are talking out of your ass over a hypothesis. One that makes little sense. Of course radiation and light is emitted by the surface of the sun, but that is not where it is generated, it's just the exit point. Hello are your brains still working.

Gas emits "black body" radiation as well... and we know how much light millions of degrees of plasma emits, even when spread thin (as in the corona.)

[TW Scott]

And thus starts the slippery slope of hukka's accounting. He invents things not seen,. fails to make any calculations, and flat out lies.

He tells us that the vaporization of a 40 meter diameter is only mere kilotons when a simple baseline calculation of a 10 meter diater asteroid showed a minimum of 223 kiliotons. Said calculations did not factor in convection rates, rapid work heating, or state change thresholds. It assumed 100 percent efficency and a starting temperature 200 degrees higher than normal space temperatures. It is easy to see how much more energy is needed thatn Hukka's limited understanding.

I also submit his terrible grasp of blackbody emission theory. The light emitted from the star caused by a layer of thin gas at 6000 degrees? I admit the theory could account for that level of brillinace if we were much closer as in stuck in the chromosphere or corona.


But this is pointless as if we applied real science to Star Trek it gets more ridiculous.

[mars13]

so how does that prove TLs are GTs? 223KTs is NOT GTs,its not even remotely close,even if it was 100X more powerful it wouldnt be GTs.

if you hit ANYTHING with GTs of energy in space it would instantly disappear in a bright flash,i dont remember any x wings or other fighters being vaporized in a white hot flash,do you?even with shielding they would still be vaporized instantly.

[Hukka4Life]

He tells us that the vaporization of a 40 meter diameter is only mere kilotons when a simple baseline calculation of a 10 meter diater asteroid showed a minimum of 223 kiliotons.

Your calculations are - as usual - hideously off. A 40m asteroid vaporization could reach 223 KT; a 10m asteroid is singularly unlikely to.

Said calculations did not factor in convection rates, rapid work heating, or state change thresholds.

Mentioned effects are minimal when applying gigatons to an asteroid... which is what I demonstrated is not happening.

It assumed 100 percent efficency and a starting temperature 200 degrees higher than normal space temperatures.

And now you're just making things up.

The light emitted from the star caused by a layer of thin gas at 6000 degrees? I admit the theory could account for that level of brillinace if we were much closer as in stuck in the chromosphere or corona.

TW Scott, you still aren't grasping the matter.

Try calculating the temperature of the Sun by its brightness... ~6000K. Try calculating its brightness from its surface temperature (5800K) ... within 10-20% of current known luminosity.

[daylight]

A. if they could capture a large enough ship (unlikely as a Y-Wing out guns them)

B. if SW kept that kind of information on board. (they don't as they have true FTL internet capability)

C. Resistance is not futile as the Borg are less of a threat than the Federation. I mean at least the Federation can think creatively.

I agree a small ship would not have a vast library of information but if the borg were to capture that small ship they would have access to some bit of information about the enemy they are dealing with. Lets imagine what that information might be.
The borg could learn the battle tatics/technology of that particular unit and perhaps find a way to deal with it. Or the borg could realize that this unit has a superior whatever and add that to its technology.

Is the pilot a clone from the empire, then the borg could learn that the empire makes entire clone armies of its finest specimins, what if the borg adapted that tech and began making drones out of the empires finest clones on the scale the empire does.
Yes I agree the Feds have their strenghts and have managed to outwit the Borg time again and again but
I believe the Borg have the superior information gathering abilities be it assimilation of people or computer systems. From what i've seen the SW universe depends on infiltration/spying/interrogation techinques to gather information and while that can work assimilation is vastly more efficient.

In war information is powerful and of all the non godlike races the Borg seem to be the most efficient and effective gatherers and ulitizers of information.

Have a nice day!!!!