View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #22281
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    That is a direct link to the Avast AntiVirus site - click the free antivirus one, and use the download link provided.
    already have it.

  2. #22282
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Hm... is it showing anything when you scan? Make sure you do a full scan, not the quick one.

  3. #22283
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    nothing. gotta go, i'm watching some SW:The Force Unleashed videos.

  4. #22284
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Odd... what kind of symptoms is it showing (popups, slowdown, etc)?

  5. #22285
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    When the filth gets taken out, this thread makes some serious headway - the general consensus in times of logical debate is that, IF Star Trek can make up for the massive numeric advantage Star Wars holds, and can develop a way to nullify Hyperdrive (which should be easy as any sufficient gravity well should do it... hint hint being near a Romulan Ship) then Trek should score a very, very easy victory.

    Failing those two points... it's a toss up. Major starbases in Trek seem to be more than adequately able to fend off even Star Destroyers no problem, thanks in large part to being able to easily fend off swarms of smaller craft, missiles, and the like - that results in ONLY Ion Cannons (which shouldn't be too effective thanks to the more broad-spectrum shielding) and laser weapons remaining as their only weapons... unless they bring the Death Star with them, planet-destroying is simply not going to happen (at least not for the important ones)

    In the end, all wanking tossed aside, it's a pretty even fight - I give it to the Star Wars side, only because we SEE them able to quickly adapt new technologies to adapt to new threats.


    Actually Star Wars no longer has the numerical advantage.
    It is no PROVEN that the Dominion and Cardassia produced more 30,000 ship.

    After the Dominion/ Breen Alliance destroyed a fleet of 311 ship of the Federation Alliance with a sole Bird of Prey surviving Martok says they have 1,500 ships arriving to defend the border.

    The Romulan Admiral says the Klingons are out numbered 20 to 1. Meaning the Dominion/Cardassian Alliance had 30,000 ships.

    Because the Federation ships shields were never strong enough to stop Dominion weapons the Registry of NCC's can be taken to mean LITTERAL number of ships produced. Therefore Voyager NCC 74656 from USS HOOD (NCC-42296) does mean as Producer Braga said....30,000 Federation ships.

    This means the Federation and Klingons and Romulans easily out number the Imperials Return of the Jedi Fleet of 25,000 Star Destroyers.

  6. #22286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Actually Star Wars no longer has the numerical advantage.
    It is no PROVEN that the Dominion and Cardassia produced more 30,000 ship.

    After the Dominion/ Breen Alliance destroyed a fleet of 311 ship of the Federation Alliance with a sole Bird of Prey surviving Martok says they have 1,500 ships arriving to defend the border.

    The Romulan Admiral says the Klingons are out numbered 20 to 1. Meaning the Dominion/Cardassian Alliance had 30,000 ships.

    Because the Federation ships shields were never strong enough to stop Dominion weapons the Registry of NCC's can be taken to mean LITTERAL number of ships produced. Therefore Voyager NCC 74656 from USS HOOD (NCC-42296) does mean as Producer Braga said....30,000 Federation ships.

    This means the Federation and Klingons and Romulans easily out number the Imperials Return of the Jedi Fleet of 25,000 Star Destroyers.
    erm, yeah, 30,000 ships. however the Empire didn't build ONLY 25,000 ships. Star Destroyers maybe, but they had thousands of other ships: cruisers, fighters, frigates. they ruled the know galaxy, you think they could do that with a mere 25,000 thousands?
    evidence that they easily builder much, much more ships is the irrefutable fact that the DS1 was build in 19 years, yet the much larger DS2 was build in less than half that time. even if the size is reduce to a mere 160 km for the second, a stupid thing, if you watch the battle of Endor: Endor is about 4,900 km in diameter, and when the rebel fleet emerge out of hyperspace at far distance, you can clearly see the actual size of the station: 800 km+.
    considering the fact that it was build in apr. 4 years, following the battle of Yavin, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to reduce the production capacity of the Empire to 25,000 ships in over 20 years.
    is this illuminating enough for you guys?

  7. #22287
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    i hope the images show up. if not, go to the link:
    far image.

    hologram

    and a orbital image.

  8. #22288
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Here's the thing though... if they could build with that kind of capacity... why didn't they? Why were things like the Star Forge so incredibly important?

    Also - you can't try to judge the size of the DS2 against Endor without knowing it's orbital altitude... reason being that the DS2 would be MUCH closer to the camera than Endor, which, because of perspective, makes it look far larger than the background object.

    Photography 101

  9. #22289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Here's the thing though... if they could build with that kind of capacity... why didn't they? Why were things like the Star Forge so incredibly important?
    the Star Forge was a remnant of the Rakatan Infinite Empire, who were, just before extinction, a shadow of what they were over 25,000 years before. things like the forge weren't used any more by the Empire or Republic. large shipyards of Kuat or Mon Calamari were productive and more efficient. but they did use some thing like the Forge: the World Devastator. able to rip apart a planet and use its resources to build anything, from droids, starfighters to medium size warships, and even other WD's if given enough time; they were also able to upgrade themselves.and as far as the Imperial Starfleet, they did build a large fleet; it just doesn't appear on screen.
    Also - you can't try to judge the size of the DS2 against Endor without knowing it's orbital altitude... reason being that the DS2 would be MUCH closer to the camera than Endor, which, because of perspective, makes it look far larger than the background object.
    i got that. however, in the second image you can see the DS in a fairy parallel position. you can get closer:
    Photography 101
    do they show up?

  10. #22290
    Quote Originally Posted by George1 View Post
    erm, yeah, 30,000 ships. however the Empire didn't build ONLY 25,000 ships. Star Destroyers maybe, but they had thousands of other ships: cruisers, fighters, frigates. they ruled the know galaxy, you think they could do that with a mere 25,000 thousands?
    evidence that they easily builder much, much more ships is the irrefutable fact that the DS1 was build in 19 years, yet the much larger DS2 was build in less than half that time. even if the size is reduce to a mere 160 km for the second, a stupid thing, if you watch the battle of Endor: Endor is about 4,900 km in diameter, and when the rebel fleet emerge out of hyperspace at far distance, you can clearly see the actual size of the station: 800 km+.
    considering the fact that it was build in apr. 4 years, following the battle of Yavin, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to reduce the production capacity of the Empire to 25,000 ships in over 20 years.
    is this illuminating enough for you guys?
    You have no factual proof to backup this assertion, so it is invalid.

  11. #22291
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    unfortunately no. i provided them. to build that humongous station in that short time proves a superior production capability. now, what is the proof the empire has only 25,000 ships? i am really curious about what makes you guys think of that.
    Dominion/Cardassian Alliance had 30,000 ships. that's a big number, coming from a alliance of a major government and a bit smaller one, together dominating a small part of the galaxy. The Empire had most of the known Galaxy at its disposal. 25,000 ships from a galactic scale government compared to two governments that would make like a sector in the SW galaxy?
    do you see the problem with that thinking?

  12. #22292
    Quote Originally Posted by George1 View Post
    erm, yeah, 30,000 ships. however the Empire didn't build ONLY 25,000 ships. Star Destroyers maybe, but they had thousands of other ships: cruisers, fighters, frigates. they ruled the know galaxy, you think they could do that with a mere 25,000 thousands?
    evidence that they easily builder much, much more ships is the irrefutable fact that the DS1 was build in 19 years,
    The Problem in Starwars is that hyperdrive inherently makes the Galaxy smaller, thus you don't need as many ships per square light year to respond to possible threats.

    The Federation has 35,000 ships. But each ship can only travel 7-8 lightyears a day. They need this size fleet to protect 8,000 lighyears of Federation space to merely maintain a presence.


    They repelled the Vong with far less than the 25,000 Star Destroyer fleet so it would seem they don't have the production means any more to create ships rapidly. Or it was severly diminished. The Imperials like took all or destroyed all their facilities.

  13. #22293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    The Problem in Starwars is that hyperdrive inherently makes the Galaxy smaller, thus you don't need as many ships per square light year to respond to possible threats.
    again the small galaxy thing. and how dose hyperdrive makes it smaller in any way?
    The Federation has 35,000 ships. But each ship can only travel 7-8 lightyears a day. They need this size fleet to protect 8,000 lighyears of Federation space to merely maintain a presence.
    yes, but even if you considerably reduce the galaxy from the official 120,000 ly to, say 60,000, you still need a much larger fleet. 25,000? not gonna work.

    They repelled the Vong with far less than the 25,000 Star Destroyer fleet so it would seem they don't have the production means any more to create ships rapidly. Or it was severly diminished. The Imperials like took all or destroyed all their facilities.
    depends on what you think on rapidly. even if there are only 25,000 ships in the fleet, being able to build them in a few decades is obviously an achievement. from 19 BBY (Before The Battle Of Yavin) to 4 After the Battle of Yavin (ABY) is the length of Paly's rule. 23 years. 25,000 ships and a massive space station is 23 years is way beyond the capabilities of the Federation or the Klingons, or the Romulans or all of them combined, don't you agree? then they build the second Death Star,a lot bigger. in say a quarter of the time it toke to build the DS1, they made another enormous station.
    so, a civilization able to do that is not able to build more than 25,000 ships?

  14. #22294
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    now imagine what is required to build the DS1 alone.
    mining, refining, transporting and actually transforming all that material for a 120 km station is...well, mind-bogglingly insane! but they did it. and then imagine all of that, and apply it to a 800 km+ station. what dose that tell you about the capabilities of the Empire?

  15. #22295
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    George, the problem is... where was this production capacity when the 'Vong invaded? Or when the Rebels got uppity?

    Why do we never see it on screen...?

  16. #22296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    George, the problem is... where was this production capacity when the 'Vong invaded?
    i cound't know. i didn't reed those stories. however the Vong conquered extensive parts of the Galaxy. and they did got pwed.
    Or when the Rebels got uppity?
    before the death of Palpy, the rebels had virtually extreme low chances of success. after he died, hundreds of key worlds overthrow the Empire rule. many of the local fleets joined the Rebels. virtually, they were occupied holding the galaxy. the DS2 not being fully complete, they couldn't afford to leave key words undefended. would you just send half of your ships to hunt them, and meanwhile worlds rebel and you have half of your fleet chasing a fleet throughout the galaxy?
    these are problems that need logical thinking: take into consideration all facts, the rebellion for example and how the empire had to control thousands of worlds. plus that, an obvious major part of the Empires resources were invested in the DS2 construction. numerous facts contribute. just analyze them for goodness sake.
    Why do we never see it on screen...?
    aha, lets see...well, we did saw the capabilities of the Empire. why don't you ask Lucas why he didn't put more ships in the films? that is a purely movie production issue: they couldn't put more ships into the filming cuz they had a budget.

  17. #22297
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Thing is, George, budget issues can't be ignored as "non factual" for a debate like this... otherwise bad bad things start to happen on both sides.

    Again, where is the cannon proof they can build at such a rate... considering the fact that we have on screen and lower cannon evidence they could not (the vong invasion was only beaten back thanks to jedi tricks like the Shadow Bombs and because of the sacrifice of a number of key people, including Anakin Solo)

  18. #22298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Thing is, George, budget issues can't be ignored as "non factual" for a debate like this... otherwise bad bad things start to happen on both sides.
    yes, but that's the main reason. i don't like it, you don't like it, but that's the truth.
    Again, where is the cannon proof they can build at such a rate... considering the fact that we have on screen and lower cannon evidence they could not (the vong invasion was only beaten back thanks to jedi tricks like the Shadow Bombs and because of the sacrifice of a number of key people, including Anakin Solo)
    erm, the dam Death Star is mentioned several times is the ultimate proof.as i said, imagine the infrastructure required. dose it seam logical they had a few thousand ships. not likely. i have not found any exact nr. for the fleet, however it is way beyond 25,000 as stated by you guys given the resources available, and the production capacity. its statistics!

  19. #22299
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    No, it isn't proof... that's like saying that because the US can build a carrier in x amount of time, they could build 25,000 light cruisers in the same time - doesn't work that way...

  20. #22300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    No, it isn't proof... that's like saying that because the US can build a carrier in x amount of time, they could build 25,000 light cruisers in the same time - doesn't work that way...
    that's not a good analogy. the US can build a carrier in x amount of time, but they make the difference between a carrier and a Death Star. then deduce the size of the two, materials needed, everything implied.
    you excluded the facts. 800km+ is 4 years? what exactly is the 25,000 ships assumption based on?
    a Star Destroyer is 1,600 meters long. now, make the difference between the necessities for the DS and that for the SD. the DS vastly exceeds tens of thousands of Star Destroyers alone, let aside the fighters, cruisers, etc.
    when you comprehend the vast resources the Empire had, the fact that it had the industrial capacity to build the two DS, and the fact that there is no reality in the 25,000 figure once you look at the above.

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