Star Wars vs Star Trek

[Shogun]

Here is a picture of of the fleet that was destroyed by the Macross Cannon. The Zentradi Main Fleet, I feel sorry for them....

[Omega133]

Really? Evidence?

Umm, Alderaan.

Variable Fighters go first, fire reaction warheads.....

That's if they can hit the Hypervelocity gun, let alone if they can find it.

You overestimate it.

See, they jump in to help their buddies, then all of a sudden, the Dimension Eater fires and they go bye bye.

But don't you realize just how many ships the Empire has to waste?

[Shogun]

Umm, Alderaan.

That is only one planet.....they didn't do it for fun, they did it to get information and as a show of force. The ONLY planet destroyed by the Death Star.

That's if they can hit the Hypervelocity gun, let alone if they can find it.

Simple, they get drones ( Mobile Dolls ) as decoys, when it fires, they calculate its position, then spam it with reaction missiles.

But don't you realize just how many ships the Empire has to waste?

Yeah I do actually, but do you realize how fast Macross and Gundam can waste them?

[Shogun]

Here is another of the fleet, it scrolls up, so I had to take two. I got it from Macross Frontier.

[Shogun]

Here is another tricky thing about the Macross Cannon. It had to be only fired once in the entire series as far as I can remember, so the rate of fire is unknown. Basically every time it was fired, it is game over.

[Omega133]

That is only one planet.....they didn't do it for fun, they did it to get information and as a show of force. The ONLY planet destroyed by the Death Star.

But that proves they don't care to lose people. And as history has shown, those with large numbers, who aree willing to cast them into the guns, can win.

Simple, they get drones ( Mobile Dolls ) as decoys, when it fires, they calculate its position, then spam it with reaction missiles.

They wouldn't use it to fire at Mobile Dolls, Mobile Suite, Fighters. It's an anti-cruiser gun.

Yeah I do actually, but do you realize how fast Macross and Gundam can waste them?

Somewhat.

[Shogun]

But that proves they don't care to lose people. And as history has shown, those with large numbers, who aree willing to cast them into the guns, can win.

Macross and Gundam have quite large numbers as well, and they have the ability to wipe out large numbers VERY QUICKLY as well.

They wouldn't use it to fire at Mobile Dolls, Mobile Suite, Fighters. It's an anti-cruiser gun.

Oh well, just another Laurasia-class or Agamemnon-class, nothing to worry about They just send one of those as decoy, then bingo.

[Omega133]

Macross and Gundam have quite large numbers as well, and they have the ability to wipe out large numbers VERY QUICKLY as well.

So neither has an advantage over the other? Both have hundreds of thousands to waste. Both can destroy things quickly.

[Shogun]

So neither has an advantage over the other? Both have hundreds of thousands to waste. Both can destroy things quickly.

Except for the fact that Gundam and Macross can destroy things a lot faster.....their pilots are better.......they have MS and VFs......and they have greater firepower.....and the fact that they never run out of missiles.....

[Shogun]

This debate will be going a lot better if the technical specifications of ships, VFs .etc of Macross is specified, I watched the every Macross series and every Gundam series.

[Omega133]

Except for the fact that Gundam and Macross can destroy things a lot faster

Aggressor-Class Destroyer, Eclipse, Executor, Death Star(s), Galaxy Gun, Centerpoint Station.

their pilots are better

TIE aces, Rogue Squadron, Anikan Skywalker, Luke Skywalker.

they have MS and VFs

Many different land vehicles and space vehicles.

and they have greater firepower

Compared to?

and the fact that they never run out of missiles

That's just to make the fight better. They can run out. And Star Wars does have missile jamming fields on their Interdictor Cruisers.

[Shogun]

Aggressor-Class Destroyer, Eclipse, Executor, Death Star(s), Galaxy Gun, Centerpoint Station.

Yet none of those you listed is a match for the Macross-cannon. Only the Centerpoint demonstrated the ability to wipe out a fleet in one blow, and it was not nearly the size of the Zentradi fleet that was destroyed.

TIE aces, Rogue Squadron, Anikan Skywalker, Luke Skywalker.

From on screen evidence, they are still no match for the likes of Shinn Asuka, Kira Yamato, Athrun Zala, Alto Saotome, Ozma Lee, Mikhil Blanc, Lockon Stratos, Marie Parfacy, Allelujah Haptism, Yzak Jouel, Dearka Elsemen, Heero Yuy.....................

Many different land vehicles and space vehicles.

That are slower, less maneuverable, weaker and less versatile then MS and VF.

Compared to?

The Empire

That's just to make the fight better. They can run out. And Star Wars does have missile jamming fields on their Interdictor Cruisers.

Prove that they can with on screen evidence. I don't know about Wing, but I know in SEED/Destiny and Macross they don't run out of missiles ( at least they can rearm crazy fast and makes a lot more missiles then they can possibly ever use ). Wow missile jamming fields....that just means they aren't guided, but they can still function as torpedoes that will take out the Interdictors first......still Macross Cannons....Positron Cannons.....and many other weapons.

[Omega133]

Yet none of those you listed is a match for the Macross-cannon. Only the Centerpoint demonstrated the ability to wipe out a fleet in one blow, and it was not nearly the size of the Zentradi fleet that was destroyed.

A few Aggressor-Class Destroyers would be more than a match for your ships.

From on screen evidence, they are still no match for the likes of Shinn Asuka, Kira Yamato, Athrun Zala, Alto Saotome, Ozma Lee, Mikhil Blanc, Lockon Stratos, Marie Parfacy, Allelujah Haptism, Yzak Jouel, Dearka Elsemen, Heero Yuy.....................

How are they not?

That are slower, less maneuverable, weaker and less versatile then MS and VF.

Slower maybe, less maneuverable maybe, but SW vehicles can mop the floor with Mobile Suits when it comes to firepower.

The Empire

You said that Macross specs are rare at best to find. So how do you support this?

Prove that they can with on screen evidence. I don't know about Wing, but I know in SEED/Destiny and Macross they don't run out of missiles ( at least they can rearm crazy fast and makes a lot more missiles then they can possibly ever use ). Wow missile jamming fields....that just means they aren't guided, but they can still function as torpedoes that will take out the Interdictors first......still Macross Cannons....Positron Cannons.....and many other weapons.

You even told me they can run out of missiles. However rare it may be, the fact is they still can.

[Shogun]

A few Aggressor-Class Destroyers would be more than a match for your ships.

Aggressor-classes actually suck. Macross-class can wipe out an ARMADA in one shot, in fact the one I showed you with the two pictures and a lot of ships in SEED and SEED Destiny have positron cannons.....

How are they not?

Reaction time....maneuvering skills....accuracy......

Slower maybe, less maneuverable maybe, but SW vehicles can mop the floor with Mobile Suits when it comes to firepower.

I guess you haven't seen the anti-base missiles ( GINNs can mount them, standard ZAFT-issue ). The heavy firepower Gundams, VFs ( especially with Reaction Warheads ) and you haven't seen their signature insane dodging skills that will make sure they can't be hit. Get a few snipers like Lockon and Mikhil and they can wipe out the AT-ATs before they even know what hit them.

You said that Macross specs are rare at best to find. So how do you support this?

Umm.....with on screen evidence? I said technical specifications are rare.

You even told me they can run out of missiles. However rare it may be, the fact is they still can.

Yeah, the GINNs with 4 ridiculously large, colony-busting missiles mounted on them. The other missiles ( and Macross ) have never been shown to run out of missiles.

[Omega133]

Aggressor-classes actually suck.

Are we talking about the same ship?

Reaction time....maneuvering skills....accuracy......

All of which Anikan has.

[Shogun]

Are we talking about the same ship?

You tell me

All of which Anikan has.

He is not so good of a pilot as seen on screen. His reaction time is slower, his skills are inferior, and he doesn't have that good accuracy. I estimate him to be about the level of the average ZAFT red-coat. He will most definitely NOT make SMS or FAITH.

[Shogun]

ZAFT Red-coats are the top graduates from their Academy class ( I am still wondering why Dearka Elsemen is a green coat in SEED Destiny, even though he is a ZAFT ace and was a red-coat in SEED, and I don't get why they took away Yzak and Dearka's Gundams.... )

[Shogun]

I just dug up something...

Wikipedia
After 2012, the Zentradi are estimated to have 1000-2000 fleets of sizes similar to the 4.8-million-ship Boddole Zer Main Fleet in Space War I.[3][4][9] However, the UN government of allied Humans and Zentradi became the reigning hegemony in near-Earth galactic space.[6]

If this is true then........I knew that the Boddole Zer Main Fleet is only a part of the Zentradi, but this just shocked me, but I can't know for sure if this is true or not ( I know the 4.8 million is true, it rings a bell now, I forgot about the exact numbers so I estimated thousands ). Change my numbers for Macross cannon to about a million ships......

[Omega133]

You tell me

The Aggressor-Class Destroyer of the Zann Consortium.

He is not so good of a pilot as seen on screen. His reaction time is slower, his skills are inferior, and he doesn't have that good accuracy. I estimate him to be about the level of the average ZAFT red-coat. He will most definitely NOT make SMS or FAITH.

What are you talking about? He brought down a Trade Federation cruiser at age 7. That's alot younger than the Gundam pilots, or even the average military soldier in Gundam. I'm not sure about Macross though. he also took down three Banking Clan Stations by himself, landed a wrecked CIS Cruiser that had lost it's stablilizers, weaved in between a Venator-Class Destroyer and a CIS Cruiser barraging eachother without taking a scratch, evades missiles like they are nothing, I mean come on. That's an impressive list. And that's just things from the movies.

[Shogun]

The Aggressor-Class Destroyer of the Zann Consortium.

I was thinking of the Acclamator-class, I was confused. I have no idea what the ship you are talking about is.

What are you talking about? He brought down a Trade Federation cruiser at age 7. That's alot younger than the Gundam pilots, or even the average military soldier in Gundam. I'm not sure about Macross though. he also took down three Banking Clan Stations by himself, landed a wrecked CIS Cruiser that had lost it's stablilizers, weaved in between a Venator-Class Destroyer and a CIS Cruiser barraging eachother without taking a scratch, evades missiles like they are nothing, I mean come on. That's an impressive list. And that's just things from the movies.

The one in Phantom Menace was due to luck. Minimal hostile threat was presented to him. I don't remember him taking down the Banking Clan Stations by himself. The skills he displayed in the Battle for Courscant wasn't that impressive. The missile evading skills displayed wasn't that impressive as well. Again, his skills displayed on screen is canon, and it shows that he isn't that good compared to Gundam and Macross pilots. At the battle of Courscant, he was in his twenties, while almost all of the Gundam and Macross aces are in their teens.