Star Wars vs Star Trek

[ricrery]

Proof that Monads are above Q? In any form?

Actually scaring the Xeelee. Not just with threats, but getting a Monad's attention scared them away from the Milky Way galaxy.

I mean, considering that when Riker was given the powers of a Q, he was able to simply will back to life two of his shipmates after they were dead, DED, TPK, dead... not to mention other strange and unusual things.

Xeelee can also bring people back from the dead, in fact, they can recreate planets with ships on *cruise control*

*shrugs* I just don't see anything that makes the Q lesser than the Xeelee.

Better feats

[Shogun]

He doesn't cling to "history". He clings to his twisted views of what people have done, as it helps him build himself up.

Shame he can't project his reality on everyone else

I don't even think I have ever said it. A prime example of hypocrites.

[Shogun]

I think I can fly... doesn't make it true

Well.......I believe I can fly ( I am joking, well I actually can, in an aircraft )

[ricrery]

He doesn't cling to "history". He clings to his twisted views of what people have done, as it helps him build himself up.

Shame he can't project his reality on everyone else

Your reality says that 31st century Feds can use cheap, unproven things to beat the Xeelee. Now, you will show me the thread where you massacred Deathmarine, chop chop.

[Kittamaru]

Actually scaring the Xeelee. Not just with threats, but getting a Monad's attention scared them away from the Milky Way galaxy.



Xeelee can also bring people back from the dead, in fact, they can recreate planets with ships on *cruise control*



Better feats

Neither of those examples mean much - my point was the Q could just, on a whim, give their power to a mere human (and not lose their own mind you) and that human would gain the understanding of how to use it and be able to do such feats.

[Kittamaru]

Your reality says that 31st century Feds can use cheap, unproven things to beat the Xeelee. Now, you will show me the thread where you massacred Deathmarine, chop chop.

I don't keep tabs on each of my threads, especially after they fall silent, sorry. And Deathmarine massacred himself more than anything.

And who says its unproven? We know the 31st century feds can time travel at will, and we know that humanity will, at some point, surpass the Q, so A+B = C!

[ricrery]

Well.......I believe I can fly ( I am joking, well I actually can, in an aircraft )

I believe a puppet is alive and sentient.

[ricrery]

I don't keep tabs on each of my threads, especially after they fall silent, sorry. And Deathmarine massacred himself more than anything.

Recall the thread, or when it happened, or how it happened?

And who says its unproven? We know the 31st century feds can time travel at will, and we know that humanity will, at some point, surpass the Q, so A+B = C!

Yet they didn't do it before. Anyway, some believe Q use technology.

[Kittamaru]

Recall the thread, or when it happened, or how it happened?



Yet they didn't do it before. Anyway, some believe Q use technology.

Which thread? The warehouse one? The time he tried to claim that modern jetfighters could wtfpwn Federation Starships? The time he tried to be an all-powerful wannabe and got schooled by two time lords, a shaman, and a viral colony? Which one?

And they didn't do it before because of the Temporal Prime Directive, which generally prevents them doing temporal incursions except in times of dire need - the threat of being wiped out would GENERALLY be considered "dire need".

And as for the people believing Q use technology - there are also people that believe Rape is not morally wrong, or that blowing themselves up in the name of Allah grants them 72 virgins in heaven... does that make it true?

[Ilithi_Dragon]

Okay, Mr. George USED EU BASED NAMES AND EVENTS.

Lucas also stole ideas from Buckaroo Banzai and a dozen other shows, including Space Battleship Yamato. I guess that means those are SW canon, too? By the logic you used here, they are.

Lucas has used whatever he felt like in his movies. He's read the comics, and taken a few ideas from them, but that's about it.

Next! Anyway, in case you weren't too lazy to read my posts, I never stated I was a SW fan, but 99/100 people on this forum are Trekkers. To hell with Star Trek.

I didn't say anything about you being a Star Wars fan. I said that you are clinging to your beliefs about Star Wars' supposed superiority like a religious zealot clinging to the teachings and mythos of his faith, and that you are incapable of engaging in an honest debate, or doing science. I also maintain that you have no real understanding of the scientific process, how an actual debate works, or any real concept of the methods of rationality at all.

Again, I challenge you to prove me wrong.

[ProphetofWisdom]

There is also no reason to believe that Wars ships would be hardened against this effect.

Hm? I see no reason why it would do more damage against a SW ship hull than it does to ST given that the denser the object the less damage is done.

No, the tiered canon system is purely for the SW:EU internal canon. The official Star Wars universe, as concieved and built by Lucas, does not include the EU books and materials. There are two canons here, just like Trek. Wars official canon is The Features (live-action and CGI movies and shows), The Scripts, and The Novelizations. Period. If you want to include Wars EU, then you should in fairness allow Trek EU in as well (and we get Genesis weapons).

1. The tier canon system is the offical SW canon system. The EU books can be used unless the movie directly contradicts them. Also Lucas himself has a hand in the SW:TCW show and gave it the position of T canon in IIRC.

2. Last I checked outside a handful of books (though I might be wrong) Trek canon policy was that only what is seen on screen is canon.

The largest explosion we see in the SW movies, outside of the Death Star, is from Jango Fett's missile, which produced a fireball that was in the low-kiloton size range.

It is pretty much impossible to judge the yield of a weapon based on the fireball in space.

No other weapon, even weapons hitting the ground, produce damage effect yields above that range. In fact, most weapons are not much more energetic than their modern ballistic weapon equivalents.

In the TESB we see 40 meter asteroids being vaporized by the Light Turbolasers of an ISD an that would require a couple megatons or so. And then there is a scene in RoTJ where a 800 meter HTL bolt completely vaporized an Imperial Star Destroyer. Your still looking at high double digit MT to low GT range going strictly from the movies using that.

Not by at all. Wars walkers are clunky, slow, unwieldy and horribly unbalanced. The Clone Wars-era walkers do have the advantage of being fairly stable (low center-of-mass, multiple legs, etc.), but they're just as slow and unwieldy. Mechs from, say, the Battletech universe are much more stable, even the bipedal designs, and much more mobile.

I'm looking at it from which would work in the real world. BT fall over will multi-leg walkers can at least be used. Tanks still win though.

And, again, the weapons yields demonstrated by Wars fighters and attack craft are far, far, far below the '20 kiloton range' touted by certain websites and biased stats books. The observable effects of the weapons against terrain, and the effects of other 'weapons' that we can measure the energy of (i.e. logs in EPVI) indicate that their endurance is far, far, far below the kiloton range, and in fact much more in line with modern-day Earth weaponry.

1. Where do we see fighter weapons used against terrain in the movies? If their trying to avoid causing damage to their own troops if its ATOC the weapons used against ground targets would be dialed down.

2. Logs? The only time I recall logs was the AT-ST blowing apart some trees on Endor.

Actually, the Irkens wouldn't be able to do that - the Deadly Wave of Stupidness wouldn't spread outside the holodeck, as everything is a holographic simulation (including their tools) - I'm talking a holodeck ala the holoship from Insurrection

Problem with that is something happens to the safety feature on the holodeck which causes the Deadly Waves of Stupidness™ to still spread out.

You know... I can't help but wonder if the Federation may well be large than the Empire... The super-galactic civilization of the later EU aside (which is in direct contradiction to the earlier EU material, including some of my first and favorite SW books, which make it clear that the Empire/Wars civilization is definitely NOT super-galactic... There is a definite trend of the SW civilization getting larger and larger later in the EU, especially after certain pro-Wars communities became prominent, and certain former pro-Wars debaters became EU authors... Hmm...), the official canon points to a much, much smaller Empire/Republic.

In terms of total systems both GR and GE would still outnumber the Federation.

In Attack of the Clones, when Obi Wan is first looking for Kamino, the map he pulls up in the Jedi Library and consults a librarian for assistance with shows the Wars galaxy and either a neighboring galaxy on the verge of collision with the Wars galaxy, or the same galaxy at a different orientation. Either way, the location of the map Obi Wan points to is well inside the edge of the galaxy, even though the planet he is looking for is far beyond the 'Outer Rim.' When he goes to consult with Yoda, the region the map zooms in on to where Kamino should be is again well inside the perimeter of the galaxy (and surprisingly close to the galactic core). There was civilization there, yes, but for the Galactic Republic, it was deep into the frontier.

Do you have a screen cap? I just want to take a look myself since I don't have my DVD's on hand. Also that may have been towards the Unknown Regions (I'll have to check the map in one of my books to find the position of the planet).

Then in "Attack of the Clones", Count Dooku is said to have several thousand systems under his control, with ten thousand more ready to join him. The Republic is also said to be 'split in two' by this point. Even granting liberal interpretations of 'several thousand' and 'split in two', there is absolutely no way that the Galactic Republic could be a galaxy-spanning civilization with those hard-canon numbers. There are a million stars within ~400 lightyears of Earth. There are a LOT of stars in a galaxy, even if you take a small galaxy with a low stellar density, you'd have millions of stars in an area only a couple thousand lightyears across. If even tens of thousands of worlds are that significant to the Republic, there is no way it spans the galaxy, unless the Wars galaxy is positively tiny.

And what reason is there to assume they are located within that small an area? There were plenty of systems that didn't join the Galactic Republic.

In the "A New Hope" novelization, Tarkin says that there are a million worlds in the Empire. It's not specified whether they are all inhabited, nor to what degree of habitation, but it does put a size cap on the Empire. Even with inhabited worlds and not just territorial holdings, the Empire definitely does not span the entire galaxy. There are ~300 million stars within 5,000 lightyears of Earth, and an Empire with a million habitable worlds would easily fit in that space, or much less.

Your taking the quote out of context. Tarkin was clearly talking about inhabited worlds (I'll have to check to see if the book mentions it but I know in the movie he said systems. Now if only I could find my damn ANH disk after all these months) since he was talking about using the Death Star to keep them all in line. It makes no sense to refer to anything but inhabited systems taken in context.

And I also still see no reason to believe why the Empire would be located inside such a small area.

A reasonable assumption, then, is that the Empire has some 1,000,000 worlds in its territory all together, with ~100,000 inhabited worlds, and ~30-50,000 significant worlds.

No, why would he be talking about worlds without a population when he is saying this station will be the first in a link that will bind the million systems of the Empire together? If those systems have no population how will the Death Star keep them in line through terror?

Territorially, in ANH, we also learn that the Empire comprises "A small corner of a modest-sized galaxy."

Taking it out of context again since at no point does it mention the Galactic Empire itself in the quote.

Page 106 of The Star Wars Trilogy

Interestingly, the first use of the most powerful
destructive machine ever constructed had seeminly had no in-
fluence at all on that map, which in itself represented only a tiny
fraction of this section of one modest-sized galaxy.

And it should be pointed a modest galaxy back in the 70s would have been far larger than what we consider modest today. *Starts looking for old book buried away somewhere for quote*

By comparison, we know for a fact that the Federation spans an area some 8,000 lightyears across. Even allowing for an irregularly-shaped Federation, and patchy regions that are inhabited by pre-warp or early-warp civilizations that are not a part of the Federation, the Federation could easily have around 100 million worlds in its territory. Cutting that in half to give a lower estimate, the Federation would have 50 million worlds, or 50 times the stellar territory of the Empire, and over 35 times the total territorial holding (giving Wars a 75% Milky Way average stellar density to maximize their territorial size).

And you will now give proof the Federation has a presence in these systems. We know that in Kirk’s era they were “spread across thousands of worlds” and by TNG they had 150 major worlds. I see no reason for the Federation to have more than ten thousand worlds total assuming there wasn’t a massive jump in colonization mention at some point between TOS and TNG (IIRC it would be about a 100 odd years I believe).

We also know that the Federation has over 150 member worlds by 2373. This figure can only be member homeworlds, because 150 worlds could not hold 8,000 lightyears of space, and we know for a fact that the Federation had over 1,000 colonies by the 2250s (and probably more, because the dialogue of The Cage/The Menagerie indicates that that was just human colonies). By the 2370s that number has undoubtedly increased significantly. If we assume that the average number of colonies per Federation member world in the 2370s is 500 (if Earth had 1000 in 2250, less than 90 years after the foundation of the Federation, it probably had at least another thousand, if not considerably more founded in the 120 years following, though obviously the younger members aren't going to have that many, especially since the dialogue in The Cage/The Menagerie indicates that there was a significant increase in the number of colony worlds in 18 years since the crashed), that gives the Federation a total inhabited planet count of ~75,000 worlds, just counting colonies and full member worlds, and not including various territorial holdings, protectorates, etc.

And no reason to believe all of them would be inhabitable worlds. I can see on the upper limit the Federation having 10,000 maybe even 12,000 inhabited worlds.

So that leaves us with the following:

Empire: ~40,000 significant worlds, ~100,000 total inhabited holdings/worlds, 1,000,000 total controlled star systems, and a territorial size of ~1500 lightyears across.

Federation: ~75,000 member and colony worlds, unknown total inhabited holdings/worlds (protectorates, etc.), ~50,000,000 total controlled star systems, and a territorial size of >8,000 lightyears across.

No.

Empire: ~1000,000 inhabited worlds, ~most likely millions of unhabited star systems plus the 11-12 million worlds that never came under the control of the Empire, and a minimum territorial size of ~1500 light years across.

Now, depending on the average population densities of the planets of the Empire and the Federation, the Empire may well have a greater population than the Federation's straight member worlds, but if you add in the Federation's territorial holdings and protectorates, etc., the total population pool the Federation can draw from is probably equal to the Empire at the very least, if not notably greater.

Given the fact the Empire has multiple planets I'd said population still goes to them.

Also IIRC there is something that refers to the size of the Imperial Navy and it gives the crew numbers and such in the trillions which fits nicely with the 25,000 ISD and millions of lesser shis from most EU sources.

This is especially likely when you consider that 200,000 clone troopers, with "A million more on the way" was considered a sizable army to the Republic.

As I recall the second line also mention "units". The question is what does units mean here? Is it referring to a single clone per unit or multiple clones per unit? The military context would have it as a group of people. Also IIRC the GR has other cloning facilitates set up on other planets (or at least the Spartii Cylinders which could grow clones far faster).

This ultimately gives the Federation more territory, more resources, and more personnel to draw from than the Empire, and significantly so. It also means that Federation starships are also probably notably faster than Imperial starships. At the very least, their high sprinting speeds would leave Wars ships in the dust, though Wars ships may have higher sustainable speeds than Trek cruising speeds.

Mostly what I see here is taking some quotes out of context and making a lot of assumptions on the total size of the Federation well downplaying the Empire. And even if the Federation had more resources the Empire clearly has the larger industry with which it can exploit it's resources given they built 60% of a 900 kilometer battle station in secret in only 6 months.

[ricrery]

Which thread? The warehouse one? The time he tried to claim that modern jetfighters could wtfpwn Federation Starships? The time he tried to be an all-powerful wannabe and got schooled by two time lords, a shaman, and a viral colony? Which one?

The one OOM and Jedi Matt talked about on your page.

And they didn't do it before because of the Temporal Prime Directive, which generally prevents them doing temporal incursions except in times of dire need - the threat of being wiped out would GENERALLY be considered "dire need".

I'd like proof that the humans superior to Q aren't just plain 31st century Feds. Anyway, Xeelee could just erase their entire galaxy before they can react, see how they can see decades to centuries into the future before it happens.

And as for the people believing Q use technology - there are also people that believe Rape is not morally wrong, or that blowing themselves up in the name of Allah grants them 72 virgins in heaven... does that make it true?[/QUOTE]

[ProphetofWisdom]

Again, source? WHERE does that statement come from? "According to some sources" is not a verifiable, supportable statement. I can say "According to some sources, the sun is lime green and the ocean is made of cheese" and it would be no less of a bare assertion fallacy than your claim to the Star Wars galaxy size.

It was either “Tyrants Nest” or “Shield of Lies”. I'll see if I can find the quote later. But a hard number should be taken over something as vague as modest given we don't know what Vader considers modest in terms of the size of a galaxy.

Ah... The ICS book. Curtis Saxton, one of the main authors, was a very active, pro-Wars member of the VS community before he wrote those books, and maintained affiliation with a rabidly and militantly pro-Wars VS community (stardestroyer.net) while he was authoring that work.

The AOTC:ICS book is an invalid source, because one of the main authors was biased. OF COURSE the ICS has such absurdly high numerical values, which have absolutely ZERO correlation with the actual films themselves in terms of observable effects, because one of the authors deliberately wrote them that high to give the pro-Wars VS community an advantage over Trek.

Even if the AOTC:ICS books WEREN'T deliberately written as such (and given the attitudes that can be found at SDN, the absurdly high figures in the AOTC:ICS, their lack of correlation with the movies, and Saxton's activities and affiliations in the VS debates prior to and while he was authoring the book, there is little reason to believe otherwise), they would be invalid as a source because of the potential for bias. From a scientific standpoint, the AOTC:ICS is invalid because of just the POTENTIAL for bias, let alone the blatant wankery of figures that make the intended bias rather clear.

And even if there was no potential for bias at all, if Saxton had not been involved in the VS debates and affiliated with pro-Wars VS communities, or somebody else had written the book instead, the fact that NONE of the figures the book presents, AT ALL, correlate to what we see done on-screen in the movies would invalidate them ANYWAY, because the movies themselves trump everything else, even if you fall in with the mistaken belief that the EU books are canon.

Until the EU directly contradicts the movies in a way that nether can be reconciled or until majority a of EU books directly contradicts it all EU books stand as canon. The canon policy of SW is: G > T (Which Lucas himself had a hand in and placed at T himself IIRC) > C > Everything else. The EU books are canon.

Bias means nothing as long as parts of the source being used are consistent with other parts of the canon.

[ricrery]

Yes PoW, you get this

[Kittamaru]

Hm? I see no reason why it would do more damage against a SW ship hull than it does to ST given that the denser the object the less damage is done.

Untrue, except for INCREDIBLE densities (as in Neutronium from a Neutron Star, which SW neutronium isn't as Han was able to pick it up and crush some in his hand

1. The tier canon system is the offical SW canon system. The EU books can be used unless the movie directly contradicts them. Also Lucas himself has a hand in the SW:TCW show and gave it the position of T canon in IIRC.

2. Last I checked outside a handful of books (though I might be wrong) Trek canon policy was that only what is seen on screen is canon.

It seems to be slowly evolving, making things more difficult.

It is pretty much impossible to judge the yield of a weapon based on the fireball in space.

Not really

In the TESB we see 40 meter asteroids being vaporized by the Light Turbolasers of an ISD an that would require a couple megatons or so. And then there is a scene in RoTJ where a 800 meter HTL bolt completely vaporized an Imperial Star Destroyer. Your still looking at high double digit to low GT range going strictly from the movies using that.

What are the calcs for the couple megatons or so. And where is it stated they are the LTL's? And where are the calcs for an 800 meter HTL bolt? 800 meter? Coming from a ship? Really?

I'm looking at it from which would work in the real world. BT fall over will multi-leg walkers can at least be used. Tanks still win though.



1. Where do we see fighter weapons used against terrain in the movies? If their trying to avoid causing damage to their own troops if its ATOC the weapons used against ground targets would be dialed down.

2. Logs? The only time I recall logs was the AT-ST blowing apart some trees on Endor.



Problem with that is something happens to the safety feature on the holodeck which causes the Deadly Waves of Stupidness™ to still spread out.



In terms of total systems both GR and GE would still outnumber the Federation.



Do you have a screen cap? I just want to take a look myself since I don't have my DVD's on hand. Also that may have been towards the Unknown Regions (I'll have to check the map in one of my books to find the position of the planet).



And what reason is there to assume they are located within that small an area? There were plenty of systems that didn't join the Galactic Republic.



Your taking the quote out of context. Tarkin was clearly talking about inhabited worlds (I'll have to check to see if the book mentions it but I know in the movie he said systems. Now if only I could find my damn ANH disk after all these months) since he was talking about using the Death Star to keep them all in line. It makes no sense to refer to anything but inhabited systems taken in context.

And I also still see no reason to believe why the Empire would be located inside such a small area.



No, why would he be talking about worlds without a population when he is saying this station will be the first in a link that will bind the million systems of the Empire together? If those systems have no population how will the Death Star keep them in line through terror?



Taking it out of context again since at no point does it mention the Galactic Empire itself in the quote.



And it should be pointed a modest galaxy back in the 70s would have been far larger than what we consider modest today. *Starts looking for old book buried away somewhere for quote*



And you will now give proof the Federation has a presence in these systems. We know that in Kirk’s era they were “spread across thousands of worlds” and by TNG they had 150 major worlds. I see no reason for the Federation to have more than ten thousand worlds total assuming there wasn’t a massive jump in colonization mention at some point between TOS and TNG (IIRC it would be about a 100 odd years I believe).



And no reason to believe all of them would be inhabitable worlds. I can see on the upper limit the Federation having 10,000 maybe even 12,000 inhabited worlds.

So that leaves us with the following:



No.

Empire: ~1000,000 inhabited worlds, ~most likely millions of unhabited star systems plus the 11-12 million worlds that never came under the control of the Empire, and a minimum territorial size of ~1500 light years across.



Given the fact the Empire has multiple planets I'd said population still goes to them.

Also IIRC there is something that refers to the size of the Imperial Navy and it gives the crew numbers and such in the trillions which fits nicely with the 25,000 ISD and millions of lesser shis from most EU sources.



As I recall the second line also mention "units". The question is what does units mean here? Is it referring to a single clone per unit or multiple clones per unit? The military context would have it as a group of people. Also IIRC the GR has other cloning facilitates set up on other planets (or at least the Spartii Cylinders which could grow clones far faster).



Mostly what I see here is taking some quotes out of context and making a lot of assumptions on the total size of the Federation well downplaying the Empire. And even if the Federation had more resources the Empire clearly has the larger industry with which it can exploit it's resources given they built 60% of a 900 kilometer battle station in secret in only 6 months.

I'd post more in the thing, but I'm tired... bedtime

[ricrery]

I'd post more in the thing, but I'm tired... bedtime

[Kittamaru]

The one OOM and Jedi Matt talked about on your page.

Oh, he was acting like a douche in the warehouse thread, so I filled him full of holes with an M36 Machine Gun

I'd like proof that the humans superior to Q aren't just plain 31st century Feds. Anyway, Xeelee could just erase their entire galaxy before they can react, see how they can see decades to centuries into the future before it happens.

And as for the people believing Q use technology - there are also people that believe Rape is not morally wrong, or that blowing themselves up in the name of Allah grants them 72 virgins in heaven... does that make it true?

[/QUOTE]

Well, for one, Q said it would be a long, long time before humanity evolved to that point. Unfathomably long I believe he said.

As for the Xeelee erasing their galaxy, not really - the 31st century feds (and even Voyager after the Kazon incident) have temporal shielding that protect them from any disturbances in the time line. This includes extra-dimensional incursions.

[Kittamaru]

Hey, it's 1:30am, I worked a long shift (you ever clean a grease trap in a butchers room? Not fun... let me tell you, the stench would knock flies off a shit wagon... after I dumped the crud in the dumpster, the flies LEFT. I shit you not.) plus, my wife wants me in the bedroom

[ricrery]

Oh, he was acting like a douche in the warehouse thread, so I filled him full of holes with an M36 Machine Gun

Heh... I knew him... from Youtube... before he ever joined Spacebattles... he was a total W40k fanboy.

As for the Xeelee erasing their galaxy, not really - the 31st century feds (and even Voyager after the Kazon incident) have temporal shielding that protect them from any disturbances in the time line. This includes extra-dimensional incursions.

Totally different time travel. Anyway Xeelee have the resources to put down the Asgard + Irkens + All of 31st century ST MW galaxy + SW universe + Halo universe + W40k universe without even noticing it (accidentally destroying civilizations by accidentally destroying their galaxies is fun)

[ProphetofWisdom]

Untrue, except for INCREDIBLE densities (as in Neutronium from a Neutron Star, which SW neutronium isn't as Han was able to pick it up and crush some in his hand

Eh, I still don't expect damage against the hull once shields are down to be a lot different unless ST ships are really high density.

Not really

So what have I missed then? Every time I've ever seen someone mention fireballs and space it is always pointed out its at best really hard to judge yields from it.

What are the calcs for the couple megatons or so. And where is it stated they are the LTL's? And where are the calcs for an 800 meter HTL bolt? 800 meter? Coming from a ship? Really?

SDN Asteroid Destruction Calculator. Low end is 500 kilotons assuming the explosive was in the center of the asteroid so we're looking at low megatons to do it for the TL bolt. And it isn't stated their LTL's but the position on the ship where the bolts come from IIRC matchs the position of where the LTL turrets are. And I just eyeballed the bolt from the Mon Cal Cruiser and it was half the length of the ISD it hit. Now that bolt would be low GT range at least for it to vaporize the ISD. Even if we assume the bolt didn't vaporize and it was the reactor going off from battle damage your still getting GT range.

Totally different time travel. Anyway Xeelee have the resources to put down the Asgard + Irkens + All of 31st century ST MW galaxy + SW universe + Halo universe + W40k universe without even noticing it (accidentally destroying civilizations by accidentally destroying their galaxies is fun)

And as I recall that was shot down by ScreenXSurfer in the Xeelee Vs Anything thread.