Star Wars vs Star Trek

[Kittamaru]

Ah, okay, now I know what you mean - yes, the safeties must be disengaged for a nuke to go off - even with them disengaged, unless the trigger mechanism fires, they will not go nuclear.

And the SR-71 isn't technically the fastest plane in the world - the X-15 (which was rocket powered) was faster, as was the X43 (though the X-43 was unmanned at the time). The SR-71 is the fastest manned aircraft to actually get to production though, so they do hold that record

[Shogun]

Ah, okay, now I know what you mean - yes, the safeties must be disengaged for a nuke to go off - even with them disengaged, unless the trigger mechanism fires, they will not go nuclear.

And the SR-71 isn't technically the fastest plane in the world - the X-15 (which was rocket powered) was faster, as was the X43 (though the X-43 was unmanned at the time). The SR-71 is the fastest manned aircraft to actually get to production though, so they do hold that record

When the safety disengages, the trigger mechanism activates and it goes boom. SR-71 is even faster then the MIG-25 Yeah, the fastest manned.

[Kittamaru]

It's official - Star Trek is better than Star Wars.

Why?

Simple: You may now call him "Sir Patrick Stewart"

http://omg.yahoo.com/photos/week-in-...-5-2010/3909/4

Booh-yah!

[Omega133]

It's official - Star Trek is better than Star Wars.

Why?

Simple: You may now call him "Sir Patrick Stewart"

http://omg.yahoo.com/photos/week-in-...-5-2010/3909/4

Booh-yah!

Sorry to ran onyour parade, but the guy who played the old Obi-Wan Kenobi was: Sir Alec Guinness.

The war continues....

[Shogun]

Sir Alec Guinness was a commissioned officer as well

[Omega133]

He was a well accomplished actor. One of his famous roles was for The Bridge On The River Kwai.

[Kittamaru]

Omega - Obi Wan died.

Picard has not (well, okay, he has a few times, but he ALWAYS comes back)

Thus Trek > Wars :P

>_>

What... sounds good in my head!

[Shogun]

Omega - Obi Wan died.

Picard has not (well, okay, he has a few times, but he ALWAYS comes back)

Thus Trek > Wars :P

>_>

What... sounds good in my head!

He is alive....in the force at least

[Omega133]

Omega - Obi Wan died.

No, I quote from episode four: Obiwan to Luke, just after the First Death Star is destroyed "Remember, I will be with you, always."

Boo-yah!

Picard has not (well, okay, he has a few times, but he ALWAYS comes back)

He died a few times?

Thus Trek > Wars :P

No way. You Trekkie.

Like I said Trek is a very well put together show, and I watch it quite a bit, but Star Wars just has so much more action.

[Hellblade8]

[QUOTE=ricrery;2552242So? NDF based weaponry works like that. Otherwise, those Special Cyclonic Torpedoes would be in the zettatons to yottatons, but they aren't.[/QUOTE]

I love your double standard ricrery. Non-DET is only good for when it's convinient for SW, 40k, and Halo, but when it comes to Trek? Oh, that means they're pussy.

Fact: Effect is the best method of determining firepower.

Even though MOST technologies they have are equal or even superior to Trek ones? Better FTL,

While true outside of UFP territory, the entire UFP won't collapse if say, the Emperor's throne shuts down...

better cybernetic technology (has the Federation even shown this?),

Yes they have actually. The EMH replaced Seven's implant eye with an artificial one and Nog had a cybernetic leg made for him when he lost his.

better land technologies as a whole,

Better war machines maybe, but that's due only to proper design as opposed to technological advancement.

better mechanical creations (Iron Men, Servitors, and Skitarii for example),

Better than an EMH? No, not really.

land weapons that are ludicrously above ST space ships (Genesis photon torpedoes blowing asteroids barely bigger than them to pieces.). Here's a quote.

Yeah, except on SB.com, you couldn't do the math, could you? It was funny watching you squirm around there.

On maximum power, and their rate of fire is a crutch.

Do you keep up with Trek at all?

First thing. Vaporizing a human target only requires setting ten and even seven or eight will leave the man completely burnt over most of his skin. Lower settings will still kill you with one hit.

Second, as of First Contact/Insurection/Nemesis, Trek has designed pulse phaser rifles with aut-semi-autor fire, so that shits on that argument.

Excluding that if a you fired two shots a second, you wouldn't need two Phasers? That's the problem, Phasers have such a slow rate of fire that a Las-Gun could vaporize someone several times over by the time it's done firing in a single beam.

Um...he just said that said person was physically enhanced by a parasite. And again, the beam setting may not be as quick as a pulse fire, but it's not that slow. It will still hit the target. The problem is simply ROF. Hell, someone with a pulse III phaser could easily lay down suppressive fire while others use a more powerful pulse setting.

But let me fill this fact into your mind. In "Genesis" Photon Torpedoes have yields of hundreds of gigawatts tops.

And those calculations we will never see, will we?

Yes... like I gave one good and one bad example for Trek and one good and one bad example for W40k. Have you ever read a W40k book ever?

Have you ever read a book?

That's fucking funny, why is it Subspace weapons are planet destroying in your wording, but in "Generations" they don't even destroy the windows that the impact does?

There are two major problems with your post here.

1) The Klingons do not use subspace weapons because they were banned during the First Khitomer Accords.

2) Subspace weapons don't look like photon torpedoes. The only few subspace weapons that we've seen are the So'na, the UFP, and possibly the Dominion. In that case, a typical subspace weapon (tri-cobalts) have three small glowing orbs when fired. How many orbs do you see from the torpedoes the Klingons fired Rice?

One.

Oh right, you wanking to high levels.

Coming from you, that's pretty funny.

W40k is ABOVE ST so hard that's it's not funny.

Even though their weapons can't punch through the cloud layer--making them low megaton weapons at best.

If Hellblade8 says W40k ships do kilotons-megatons when shown otherwise with leveling continents, fine, but I'll use the 400 gigawatts defeating shields and low end-mid end weaponry from "Survivors" and "Genesis" as seen and heard.

Pretty funny how you seem to think that a single warship was able to destroy an entire planet with one observable weapon and a weapon of 400 gigawatts in three days.

Or did they use magic?

Of course, the real reason why the weapon did what it did was because it was a magical fist pretty much made by a demigod who was trying to chase the Enterprise D away--not destroy it. That's why Worf noted that he was having trouble 'reassembling the shield', which has never been used before in Trek or ever again--as if the damage done from those weapons were unique.

Also, I highly doubt that the Enterprise D is really threatened by 400 gigawatts considering that the 200+ year old NX class were armed with multiple 500 GJ phase cannons.

You know, the one that constantly got buttraped by Orions, Klingons, Vulcans, and so forth and were often incapable of penetrating shielding?

Oops.

You are SUCH a liar, you know that? They were INCAPABLE of moving it, oh for fucks sake, why did they require Q's intelligence then?

Yes they were. They were doing the job just fine until the alien entities attacked the Enterprise, which ruined the attempt. And Q was mostly useless in the episode, save for inspiring the idea to begin with.

You are a fool. Phasers use ENERGY FREQUENCIES DUR DUR DUR.

And?

The Borg could have BILLIONS of projectiles hitting them and not adapt. Oh fuck, constant Phaser fire is out of their ability to adapt to.

No it isn't. Photon torpedoes have absolutel random frequencies because they're antimatter warheads--yet we see the Enterprise D bomb the fuck out of the Cube without so much as seemingly annoying them.

Also, most physical projetiles wouldn't hit due to the navigational deflector dishes.

Woohoo! They will MAGICALLY adapt to weapons that casually move past shields? YEAH RIGHT! If they DID adapt, the Gauss Gun would rip those shields apart and go through anyway. As for teleportation, W40k teleportation is not stopped by anything, including shields and neutronium.

Since when?

Too bad they are from the Big Bang. They could just erase the galaxy the Federation is from with ZERO effort, I mean, galaxies are BULLETS to them.

Or the 31st UFP could just beam them away from their current environment before the big bang and kill them.

Oh... at 11% more power, the Photon Torpedoes only blew up HALF an asteroid a few dozen meters in MILLIONS OF PIECES. Photon Torpedoes = LOW gigawatt range weaponry. So, even a Borg Cube would be LUCKY to survive a kiloton.

This is of course, why the old Constitution class starship was only stated to be possibly crippled from a tactical nuke (double digit KT) while in the atmosphere of a planet.

Woohoo! They can't adapt to energy weapons completely, let alone PROJECTILES.

You don't understand the concept of adapt, do you? It's more than just switching shield frequency you twat.

"Captain, we are incredibly slowly moving towards the ship"

"Fire low gigawatt yield phasers and photons, those blow us all the time!"

This is again, why an old Connie 100+ years out of date was able to rape a half dozen ships who themselves raped the NX who uses 500 gj weapons.

You don't even KNOW the meaning of WANKED. If I said W40k could destroy galaxies, that would be WANKING or WANK.

No, you'd just look like more of an idiot.

Really? A. Bettik calls you an idiot. Daniel calls you an idiot. Jedi Matt is sympathetic with me getting banned. Rama calls you an idiot when I PM the bullshit you say here.

So let's see, because three people you like say you're right...that means you're right? Bandwagon fallacy much?

Yeah... people calling me an idiot... Yeah... let me guess, Mith? Oraghan? They don't count. Plus, weren't we debating over SP and Peanuts?

Yes, only the people who agree with me count.

They aren't wanked. Q has never even destroyed a galaxy, let alone a universe spanning empire. Q use technology (Q WAR ANYONE?), Xeelee use technology.

the Q don't use technology you stupid fuck. Their dimension doesn't even have a physical existance. What we see is a result of the human mind making to look like since they can't percieve it properly.

Xeelee have all the knowledge of the baryonic and tachyonic universe, therefor, they can't be overpowered technologically. No one agrees with your Q being omnipotent bullshit. BECAUSE Q AREN'T OMNIPOTENT YOU FRAKING FOOL!

This is of course, why Q can travel to before the Big Bang...

[TW Scott]

I love your double standard ricrery. Non-DET is only good for when it's convinient for SW, 40k, and Halo, but when it comes to Trek? Oh, that means they're pussy.

Fact: Effect is the best method of determining firepower.

True on the last part. Still shows that no ST weapon that would be in the Galaxy would equal a Death Star. And for what we have seen in the shows no ST weaponry even approaches the canon firepower of OLD SW Technologies.

While true outside of UFP territory, the entire UFP won't collapse if say, the Emperor's throne shuts down...

Actually the UFP would effectively become useless with just the destruction of a few key worlds. You wouldn;t even have to destroy Earth, Mars would be enough to cripple new ship production. However for a real morale crush Vulcan, Beta-Zed, Orion, and Earth in that order would absolutely destroy any effective Federation Resistance.

Oh and it took a Decade for the factious Galactic Empire to be reduced to the Imperial Remnant after Palpatines death.

Yes they have actually. The EMH replaced Seven's implant eye with an artificial one and Nog had a cybernetic leg made for him when he lost his.

ST does have some cybernetic systems, however one must agree Luke's hand, which was done with CIVILLIAN parts, is clearly superior to either of the above. Ten there are computer interfaces and in some cases complete Droid bodies, some of which scan as a living human being.

Better war machines maybe, but that's due only to proper design as opposed to technological advancement.

Actually it would be both. Better technology allows you better designs.

Better than an EMH? No, not really.

Are you kidding, C-3PO alone dwarfs the possibilities of the EMH. 6 BILLION forms of communication and yet can still learn skills as well as be a competent mechanic with nearly any machine? Then there is R2-D2 who as of the Vong War was considered superior in function to even the latest R7 astromechs becuase of his experience and his AI going from Semi to FULL.

Yeah, except on SB.com, you couldn't do the math, could you? It was funny watching you squirm around there.

You were shown the actual math here and you never provided anything to refute it so that's just pot-kettle-black behaviour.

Do you keep up with Trek at all?

Actually yes. Even to the point where I understand that main canon now incorporates exactly one movie, though to be fair that one movie KICKS ASS.

First thing. Vaporizing a human target only requires setting ten and even seven or eight will leave the man completely burnt over most of his skin. Lower settings will still kill you with one hit.

Actually we have never seen anything remotely like this. Phaser strikes tend to leave either small burns or dematerilaized bodies.

Second, as of First Contact/Insurection/Nemesis, Trek has designed pulse phaser rifles with aut-semi-autor fire, so that shits on that argument.

And yet none of those rifles can penetrate a light packing crate, it's so sad.

Um...he just said that said person was physically enhanced by a parasite. And again, the beam setting may not be as quick as a pulse fire, but it's not that slow. It will still hit the target. The problem is simply ROF. Hell, someone with a pulse III phaser could easily lay down suppressive fire while others use a more powerful pulse setting.

Which might work if you were firing on unarmored personell. Storm Troopers would mow down your suppressive fire idiot and then pick off eveyone eles. Space Maries would barely notice your fire as they obiliterate your position. One of them might pick your phaser rifels as a cleaning implement.

[Kittamaru]

Its been rather quiet with Ricrery banned... heh.

Hellblade, don't bother trying to argue against him - he won't listen and when he's proven wrong he resorts to attacking you personally instead of debating the evidence *shrugs*

And Scott- stormtrooper armor? As in, the very same armor ROCKS and WOODEN ARROWS was able to defeat? Really?

And if you want to get technical, blasters can't penetrate packing crates either, and AT-ST blasters barely leave a scorch mark on wooden structures. So, yeah... I can go with the "lowest possible" examples too scott... don't even try that bullshit. You know its wrong, I know its wrong, the American People know its wrong.

[Ilithi_Dragon]

True on the last part. Still shows that no ST weapon that would be in the Galaxy would equal a Death Star. And for what we have seen in the shows no ST weaponry even approaches the canon firepower of OLD SW Technologies.

Actually, in DS9 "The Die is Cast" a fleet of only 20 starships (half of which were Cardassian warships) fully expected to blow an ~Earth-sized planet down to its nickel-iron core in approximately five hours. Even if you give them a full day to completely blast away the entire planet, that STILL gives them a size-to-firepower ratio something like 10-20,000 times greater than the Death Star. Giving the Death Star's beam a liberal half-second duration and the Trek ships' bombardment-to-planetary-destruction a conservative 24 hours (a reasonable estimate would be 6-7 hours to blast away the core, after 5 hours to blow away the majority of the planet surrounding the core), that makes the Death Star's superlaser ~172,800 times more powerful than those 20 ships' firepower. However, the Death Star is GINORMOUS, some 904,700,000,000,000 cubic meters in volume. With the upper size for the 10 D'Deridex class warbirds at ~26,000,000 m^3 (size measurements by myself and others have put the D'Deridex at 17.8 - 26 m^3, with 17.8m being the more reliable figure) and 10 Keldons at ~1,500,000 m^3,
that still makes the Death Star I ~3,289,818 times larger than the Rom/Card fleet, making the Fed ships ~20 times more powerful per unit of volume.

Going with 10 17.8 million m^3 D'Deridexi and 10 ~1.5 million m^3 Keldons, blowing the planet away in 6 hours instead of 24, that makes the Death Star only 43,200 times more powerful than a fleet of 20 Trek warships, and the Death Star 4,687,565 larger than the 20 ships, which makes those 20 ships 108.5 times more powerful per unit of volume than the Death Star.

Given that the Death Star's superlaser is ginormous, while the volume of Trek weapons relative to the volume of the ship is considerably smaller, the firepower-to-weapon-size figures would be even more in Trek's favor.

And then you have to consider the power plant, too. I don't have the solid figures on those, but they probably are comparably in Trek's favor, or better (which makes sense, given that Trek uses anti-matter reactors, while all the official canon data points to Wars using fusion reactor tech (hypermatter is purely a construct of the later EU books, which are not part of the official canon, with the movie scripts and novelizations pointing to fusion power tech).

Actually the UFP would effectively become useless with just the destruction of a few key worlds. You wouldn;t even have to destroy Earth, Mars would be enough to cripple new ship production. However for a real morale crush Vulcan, Beta-Zed, Orion, and Earth in that order would absolutely destroy any effective Federation Resistance.

The loss of Mars would be significant, as there are major fleet yards there, but there are multiple fleet yards around Earth, as well as fleet yards in Antares, Vulcan, Andor, and others. It would be a serious blow, sure, but not crippling.

ST does have some cybernetic systems, however one must agree Luke's hand, which was done with CIVILLIAN parts, is clearly superior to either of the above. Ten there are computer interfaces and in some cases complete Droid bodies, some of which scan as a living human being.

1. How does civilian medical technology differ from military medical technology? The U.S. military has some fancy toys for emergency field treatment, sure, but the actual medical tech and capabilities are no greater than what is available to civilians.

2. How is Luke's hand superior? WHAT makes it qualitatively superior to Seven's replacement implant, or Nog's synthetic prosthesis? In terms of Nog's prosthesis, there is absolutely no discernible difference in quality of the prosthesis.

Actually it would be both. Better technology allows you better designs.

Except that the SW ground force walkers AREN'T better designs... I'd take an M1A2 Abrams over an AT-ST walker any day. They're lightly-armored, unwieldy and unstable military machines. The AT-AT isn't much better. Sure, it's better armed and armored (though even if vastly superior to the AT-ST's armor, it's still in the same general range as it's the same basic armor tech, and would probably be ripped apart by a modern AT missile or the A-10's GAU-8 30mm gattling gun), but it's just as awkward and unwieldy, and far MORE unstable and top-heavy. The Clone Wars-era walkers, which were much lower to the ground and had more legs, etc. were more stable, but were just as slow and unwieldy, if a little less clumsy.

Are you kidding, C-3PO alone dwarfs the possibilities of the EMH. 6 BILLION forms of communication and yet can still learn skills as well as be a competent mechanic with nearly any machine? Then there is R2-D2 who as of the Vong War was considered superior in function to even the latest R7 astromechs becuase of his experience and his AI going from Semi to FULL.

How does C3P0 dwarf the EMH? So, 6 billion languages? The EMH had access to the entire medical knowledge of Starfleet, and could still learn new skills. Being a hologram, he was also much more adaptable because he could potentially reprogram his appearance to better suite his task if needed, and was far less vulnerable to physical damage, and physical movement limitations. Starfleet has also had fully-fledged AI for a while, both in Data and in the potentials of its holoprograms, as the Doctor demonstrated.

Actually we have never seen anything remotely like this. Phaser strikes tend to leave either small burns or dematerilaized bodies.

Actually, we've seen more than just small burns. See the Starfleet trooper in DS9 "Nor the Battle to the Strong" (I'd post a link to a picture, but apparently I require a certain number of posts here to do that...).
This shot was not immediately lethal (thanks to the trooper's light armor), but, unable to receive medical treatment, he did later die of the wound.

There is also the matter of the rock that is fired upon in TNG "Hide and Q" (again, would post a picture but for the post count issue).

If that blast hit a human, vaporization may have occurred (humans are less dense material), but if not, there would definitely be plenty of people-bits splattered around the area.

We've seen a variety of yields against a variety of materials, so there's no reason to believe that people are only lightly burned or vaporized by phasers.

And yet none of those rifles can penetrate a light packing crate, it's so sad.

DS9 "Who Mourns for Morn?" Quark takes cover in a crate that had held loose-packed gold-pressed bars of latinum (requiring some notable structural integrity, as hollow bars of gold are heavy). To his dismay, the phaser/disruptor beams being fired back and forth punch right through the crate he's hiding in. So much for the "Not being able to penetrate a packing crate" argument.

In DS9 "Blaze of Glory", Sisko notes that barrels made of duridium should hold off enemy fire for a while. Construction materials of the packing crates are obviously very important, as there is definitely a difference between, say, an eight-inch slat crate and a quarter-inch steel shipping container.

Which might work if you were firing on unarmored personell. Storm Troopers would mow down your suppressive fire idiot and then pick off eveyone eles. Space Maries would barely notice your fire as they obiliterate your position. One of them might pick your phaser rifels as a cleaning implement.

Trek troopers routinely employ body armor in combat. We've also seen collapsible shields similar to modern ballistic shields used against projectile-wielding armies (they may or may not also be effective against modern particle weapons), and rather effective personal forcefields have been cobbled together on-the-fly in the field on numerous occasions, indicating that personal forcefields specifically designed an manufactured as such could easily provide significant protection.

There is also the matter that in "The Mind's Eye", a Romulan-built copy of a Federation phaser rifle discharges continuously at a rate of 1.05 megajoules per second for 51 seconds. To put that into perspective, the Depleted Uranium Discarding SABOT round fired from an M1 Abrams' 120mm main gun has a kinetic energy on impact of ~15 megajoules. In a TEST FIRE, that phaser rifle discharged almost as much energy as 3 and a half rounds from the main gun of an M1 Abrams main battle tank. Whether or not that was the maximum output of the weapon is unknown, but a typical phaser blast would have to be at least in that general range.

[spidergoat]

OMFG

[Kittamaru]

Welcome Ilithi_Dragon. Glad to see someone else with a brain joining this debate

[Ilithi_Dragon]

Thank you, Kittamaru, I try. } : = 8 ) Though, the inability to post links for a while is going to hamper me somewhat... I generally don't have the time to write a full dissertation with detailed proofing on every point in every post, and don't see the point in re-typing a proof or evidence a thousand times over when I can just link to it on a publicly visible site, page or forum.

That said, I can still provide some pretty solid information on how phasers work, and the damage and yield effects of phasers, disruptors and photon torpedoes, as well as general Trek energy outputs and effectiveness.

[Kittamaru]

It's only for, I believe, five posts, or something to that effect.

You will find that some members, like TWScott and Ricrery (if he hasn't been perma-banned) will not accept any evidence that contradicts their "OH EM GEE SW IS THE BEST I LURVES IT LAWLS ST SUCKS BALLZ BARNEY COULD BEATS TREK" viewpoints. It, honestly, makes me very sad to see logic so easily overridden by personal bias, but alas, such is life I guess *shrugs*.

When you provide them hard evidence, they will attempt to "disprove" it via the lowest possible single example they can find, despite the fact that your evidence is supported time and time again, while theirs only occurs once or twice, as the Plot(tm) demands.

Finally, if you do not submit, they will resort to personal insults and attacks on you and your intelligence. *shrugs* While this is fun and all, it does tend to get tiring

Just a heads up about what you're dealing with here

[Ilithi_Dragon]

Oh, yeah, I've dealt with their types before. ST vs SW, Galaxy vs Sovereign, Defiant vs Anything, etc. etc., and I've been involved in the VS debates for years (though only peripherally), so I know just how nasty the ST vs SW debates in particular can get.

But, the worst they can do is make me put holes in my desk with my forehead... *shrug*

[ProphetofWisdom]

*Snip TDiC calcs*

That episode is an outlier for standard Trek ship firepower (also they use NDF for phasers) and their are most likely using super weapons of some sort.

Normal Trek firepower would be in the area of mid-double digit MT to mid hundreds of MT.

And then you have to consider the power plant, too. I don't have the solid figures on those, but they probably are comparably in Trek's favor, or better (which makes sense, given that Trek uses anti-matter reactors, while all the official canon data points to Wars using fusion reactor tech (hypermatter is purely a construct of the later EU books, which are not part of the official canon, with the movie scripts and novelizations pointing to fusion power tech).

1. Quotes? Hypermatter reactors could easily be said to be a form of fusion reactor like Anti-matter reactors are. And all current canon points to Hypermatter reactors being standard on ships (hell, they were even researching it for civilian use during the Clone Wars Era).

2. Wrong. All EU books that fall under C Canon are Canon. SW Canon System is: G Canon (Movies, Movie Novels etc.) > T Canon (SW:TCW) > C Canon (books, games).

Except that the SW ground force walkers AREN'T better designs...

SW walker designs compared to those seen in most other SF are better.

I'd take an M1A2 Abrams over an AT-ST walker any day. They're lightly-armored, unwieldy and unstable military machines.

Their the Empire's version of a Humvee. A Humvee wouldn't have held up any better than the AT-ST's.

The AT-AT isn't much better. Sure, it's better armed and armored (though even if vastly superior to the AT-ST's armor, it's still in the same general range as it's the same basic armor tech, and would probably be ripped apart by a modern AT missile or the A-10's GAU-8 30mm gattling gun),

No, an AT-AT is a real combat machine well the AT-ST is a Scout like a Humvee. The AT-At would easily take modern day weapons with NO problems at all.

*Floats off to continue expanding the mighty Irken Empire throughout the multi-verse*

"The universe is ours for the taking! It is only a matter of time before all the races of the universe serve... the IRKEN EMPIRE!" - Almighty Tallest Red, the Great Assigning for Operation Impending Doom II at Conventia the Convention Hall planet.

"It's not stupid, its advance!" - Almighty Tallest Purple when giving GIR to Zim

"YOU! OBEY THE FIST!" - Invader Zim

"That was NO HUMAN BEE!!!!" - Invader Zim on a 'That was NO HUMAN BEE!!!!' hitting the windshield of the Voot Runner and somehow damaging the engines without going anywhere near them

"GIR! Why is there bacon in the soap???!!!" - Zim on bacon in soap

"I don't know." - GIR to the above

"That Monkey!" - Zim on the Scary Monkey show

[Kittamaru]

That episode is an outlier for standard Trek ship firepower (also they use NDF for phasers) and their are most likely using super weapons of some sort.

1) Proof of NDF
2) Proof of superweapons

Normal Trek firepower would be in the area of mid-double digit MT to mid hundreds of MT.



1. Quotes? Hypermatter reactors could easily be said to be a form of fusion reactor like Anti-matter reactors are. And all current canon points to Hypermatter reactors being standard on ships (hell, they were even researching it for civilian use during the Clone Wars Era).

Not really... I mean if this was true, why would they differentiate between the HyperMatter and the Fusion Reactors on the Fighters?

2. Wrong. All EU books that fall under C Canon are Canon. SW Canon System is: G Canon (Movies, Movie Novels etc.) > T Canon (SW:TCW) > C Canon (books, games).

Yes, but it is so often overridden that it isn't funny.

SW walker designs compared to those seen in most other SF are better.

Not... by much.

Their the Empire's version of a Humvee. A Humvee wouldn't have held up any better than the AT-ST's.

Sure it would - for one, it would've, you know, moved? And an armored HMMWV would've not been crushed FLAT like that. it may have been taken out of action, but it's occupants would have likely survived.

No, an AT-AT is a real combat machine well the AT-ST is a Scout like a Humvee. The AT-At would easily take modern day weapons with NO problems at all.

HMMWV's can mount TOW missiles and other anti-tank weapons. Also, an AT-AT is so slow and pointless... it really has no purpose anywhere. Hell, if the Rebels were smart, they'd have orbital-bombarded the damned things... Trek would simply swoop in with a Cruiser or smaller starship an obliterated it... or simply beamed parts of it out (can you imagine Voyager simply beaming a leg off an AT-AT? LOL!

*Floats off to continue expanding the mighty Irken Empire throughout the multi-verse*

"The universe is ours for the taking! It is only a matter of time before all the races of the universe serve... the IRKEN EMPIRE!" - Almighty Tallest Red, the Great Assigning for Operation Impending Doom II at Conventia the Convention Hall planet.

"It's not stupid, its advance!" - Almighty Tallest Purple when giving GIR to Zim

"YOU! OBEY THE FIST!" - Invader Zim

"That was NO HUMAN BEE!!!!" - Invader Zim on a 'That was NO HUMAN BEE!!!!' hitting the windshield of the Voot Runner and somehow damaging the engines without going anywhere near them

"GIR! Why is there bacon in the soap???!!!" - Zim on bacon in soap

"I don't know." - GIR to the above

"That Monkey!" - Zim on the Scary Monkey show

Trek would beat the Irkens - they'd beam them all into a giant holodeck... they wouldn't be SMART enough to get out :P