Star Wars vs Star Trek

[ricrery]

And? It's entirely vauge and nonsensical. Just like Bones claiming that the Enterprise has the power to destroy a planet--you don't just take it literally and start scaling from there.

Wow, what a very good argument. It's clear that they can't destroy a continent even though it says they can level a continent, oh wait... Until you can prove directly that current W40k ships are kiloton-megaton shooters (Ha... are you kidding me), W40k ships are firing teratons.

Also, not the 40k thread. Please take it there.

That thread has been killed and revived several times, it should just die.

Done stealing all your arguments from Spacebattles yet? And that's rather laughable given that a large, internal part of the Gothic game has suns as threats.

No I am not. Also, those solar flares are *gasp* game mechanics, as already stated there. Novels have continents being destroyed, atmospheres evacuated, and crusts melted. The ST bombardments can't even destroy an atmosphere for fucks sake!

Yeah, try and get your facts straight there bucko.

*rolls eyes* Oh yeah, like you haven't done that constantly.

First off, those two BoP had just been dog fighting with another BoP, so I highly doubt their shields were at full power. Even still, the 'solar flare' was entirely artificial, caused by the highly damaged BoP entering the corona and jumping to high warp. Ie, the blast sent a wave of it at the intended targets...very possibly at speeds faster than light itself. Nor was the solar flare itself very large, indicating that more of the energy was going into the blow.

I don't care nor know what you meant with this.

Also, BoP are scout ships. They're not exactly comparable to the Enterprise D. This was also before the invention of metaphasic shielding, where we see that a rigged shuttle can enter the superdense and unstable corona of a star.

Two BoP can beat an Enterprise.

Hmmm...that seems to suggest to me that your wrong.

Okay, name an instance a civilian ship stayed in the corona for days without a care while also conserving energy.

No doubt you're going to mention the Borg example too right? Because that's exactly what happened in the SB.com thread.

Borg are no match for the W40k powers. The W40k powers in novel canon destroy continents and evacuate atmospheres in a minute (sometimes less sometimes more if we state that their weapons are triple digit teratons), and the Borg took time to make a 17 teraton bomb that spreads across the star system and 5 light years. *yawns* The Borg would have to be very lucky not to even get noticed as a major power, thus not be destroyed completely.

Also, I'm waiting for someone to tell me what can beat Xeelee.

[George1]

Because the ICS book fails in every aspect to get the numbers right.

no they don't.

For one, you could look to the orginal series. Ie, the Imperial fleet was afraid to go into the asteroid after the Falcon. If they had teratons of firepower they could toss out, then it would have been laughably easy. We also see that one of the ships are destroyed during these scenes; it's entire bridge tower is taken off.

well they did go through...and did blast their way through.the problem was that,as in any scyfy,the asteroids in the belt were to close together...to many to shoot at.

you can see an asteroid blowing up,if you don't believe me go watch the movie again.that asteroid is barley hit by the beam.

Then we also have the T canon, where we have Anakin planning for a squadron of Y-Wings to hit the bridge of the Malevolence to cripple the ship and kill General Grievous. If the fighters/bombers in the series were so amazingly worthless (as they're potrayed), then why would they bother sending Y-Wings against a massive, fully protected ship? They'd be basically praying that Grievous decided to be a sport and lower the shields.

during the attack they'll forces were cut in half,then Anakin fired proton torpedoes,that can pierce shielding,into the ion cannons.When Grievous tried to fire,the cannons exploded.

Or of course, we could look at Downfall of a Droid. In that episode, Grievous's fleet is going to attack Anakin, whose stationed them behind an asteroid field. Anakin correctly guessed that Grievous was going to use the asteroids as large shields to move his fleet in closer (since apparently Venators have a range advantage) and hit them while at closer range. Anakin counters it by stationing AT-TEs on asteroids and having them bombard the unshielded back ends of the CIS frigates (Grievous had double fronted them for both the asteroids and the Venators, he wasn't worried because he thought the asteroids would protect them from anyone flanking him). Ignoring the whole incident with the land-based tanks dealing damage to armored ships, why would Anakin have considered this plan?

cuz he,like most Jedi Generals,is a brilliant strategist,and in this case he out thought Grievous.You can dislike this strategy as long as you like, it works.

Think about it. You have enough firepower with 200 gigatons/800 teratons to literally vaporize your way through the asteroid field in seconds. And with the shielding required to wave off such firepower, then why would the asteroids have provided any sort of protection to Grievous's aft section? It would be as logical as pretending that a wall of pillows is going to stop a tankshell from turning you into a smear on the sidewalk.

no,cuz tankshell doesn't require gigatones of fire to be melted away.
first of all,Anakin had only 3 Venator's,Grievous had 6 frigates,powerful ones.
second,the asteroids were,of course,close.to many of them for Anakin's forces to blast through.
and third,outnumbered,Anakins forces had no other option.

Even more damnation comes in the Ryloth Trilogy, where Grievous orders a carpet bombing campaign to blame on the Clones so that more worlds would turn against the Republic. What do we see? We see a variation of the vulture droids using large, thick cinder like bombs about as tall as a B1 being loaded and used in squadron formation to destroy villages. Yet, if they had KT level laser firepower, why bother?

cuz they had no more available ships,they were either destroyed or probably battling the republic in orbit.plus,it wasn't Grievous it was Wat Tambor,NOT A MILITARY COMMANDER.

A single volley would be far more effective in showing the true horrors of bombing. What's more, they could have split them up into smaller units to deliver more attacks. It would have been far more effective and would have made Anakin's attempt to stop them not only more difficult, but his attempts would require that he use firepower that could destroy said fighter and therefore put any nearby village in danger just as well.

Wat Tambor,NOT A MILITARY COMMANDER.

And finally, we get an episode in this last season where the Republic tries testing out a new weapon of amazing potential--and guess what? It's the Godzilla tribute too, which really says a lot here. Basically, the Republic drops a large bomb about two to four times larger than a proton torpedo and it creates a large mushroom cloud (not 10 kt though) before imploding and sending out a massive EMP blast.

the Electro-proton bomb.
yes,well,its primary effect was aimed at droids, as it basically served as a gigantic droid popper.it's explosion was intended to create a really powerful EM field.

And yet...why? They had a small squadron of Y-Wings..why bother with some new weapon that's clearly no more powerful than the supposed firepower on their fighters? If what ICS said were true, then the fighters would have blasted them with either proton torpedoes or their own cannons--they wouldn't have needed to fly right over the site with a large, bulky bomb attached to them and drop it on them. It's entirely non-sensical.

no,it was a test of the bomb.lol.

And that's not even mentioning where Slave I--the thing supposed more powerful than the Enterprise D by some claims, being cut apart by a lightsaber and then crashing. Nor am I even going into the nitpicking about visual effects (it's a kid's show, despite its higher canon status, so I don't feel comfortable playing that strict of game--but if I did, it would get much worse and fast).

you trekkies always point that SW is a kid thing,yet you always forget the millions of adults just as mature as anyone who watch the show.my mom watched the show sometime,SHE DOESN'T COMPLAIN ABOUT A CG SHOW.no,you do.

In short, the Clone Wars has destroyed every shred of possible claim that the ICS has put forth. The highest figures for an Imperial Class Star Destroyer is at most a megaton for the strongest gun...and really probably more in the kiloton stages. They typicall run on fusion reactors (ie, hypermatter reactors have shown that at least prototype ISD IIs would blow up due to insufficient ability to keep them working).

and why is that,because you fail to understand that in the dammed show we never saw them using full power?

To believe that they're powerful enough to literally reduce the surface of a planet to molten slag is laughable.

i already proven you wrong,again,but you still don't seam to understand they never did do such a thing in the show.they can do it,but since the battles happen on bloody inhabited planets....

[George1]

note:how much is a fucking isoton ?can't fiend anything anywhere!

[Kittamaru]

You're, because a solar flare destroyed 2 BoP. A civilian ship that was conserving its power and not shielding itself survived being inside the corona for several days with no ill effects.

You realize a BoP is one of the smallest Klingon warships, and is over 200+ years old, right?

[George1]

probably older.i mean there were probably way older designs,the Klingon Empire is...how old?

[Hellblade8]

Wow, what a very good argument. It's clear that they can't destroy a continent even though it says they can level a continent, oh wait...

Nice smokescreen.

My point was that vague claims can be made from any sci-fi series. 40k is no exception.

Until you can prove directly that current W40k ships are kiloton-megaton shooters (Ha... are you kidding me), W40k ships are firing teratons.

Solar flares.

That thread has been killed and revived several times, it should just die.

Your opinion. Please take it to the appropriate thread.

No I am not.

Figures.

Also, those solar flares are *gasp* game mechanics, as already stated there.

I give a shit...why? It's spacebattles that has rules against using game mechanics to interpret information (even though they violate it themselves...oops), not here. Therefore, your argument is null an' void.

Novels have continents being destroyed, atmospheres evacuated, and crusts melted.

I've already iviscerated your argument here. If you wish to go back to it and start arguing now how all of those sources that I've shot down are suddenly differnet now, then please, go ahead.

The ST bombardments can't even destroy an atmosphere for fucks sake!

SPOCK: Doctor, evidence indicates the creature is here to spawn. If so, it will reproduce by fission, not just into two parts, but thousands.
KIRK: Antimatter seems our only possibility.
SPOCK: An ounce should be sufficient. We can drain it from the ship's engines and transport it to the planet surface in a magnetic vacuum field.
KIRK: Contact medical stores. I want as much haemoplasm as they can spare in the transporter room in fifteen minutes.
GARROVICK: Yes, sir.
MCCOY: I presume you intend to use that haemoplasm to attract the creature?
KIRK: We must get it to the antimatter. It seems attracted to red blood cells. What better bait could we have?
SPOCK: There is still one problem, Captain.
KIRK: The blast, yes.
SPOCK: Exactly. A matter-antimatter blast will rip away half the planet's atmosphere. If our vessel is in orbit and encounters those shock waves
KIRK; A chance we'll have to take, Mister Spock.
SPOCK: Also, we cannot be certain the transporter will operate under those conditions. If a man is beaming up when that hits, we may lose him.
KIRK: That's exactly why I've decided to set the trap myself.

Done looking like an idiot?

*rolls eyes* Oh yeah, like you haven't done that constantly.

The fuck is that supposed to mean?

I don't care nor know what you meant with this.

Oh wow, big man. Come here acting like tough shit--and yet when it's specifically said that the solar flares that you're claiming are so effective against ST ships turn out to be entirely artificial and in some cases not even really solar flares in the typical sense, you just want to ignore it.

Two BoP can beat an Enterprise.

There are multiple classes of the BoP. This was an issue early TNG had because it was rather inconsistant with ship capabilities (against each other) and sizes. In this case, those BoPs were hundreds of meters long, not like the small BoP that we saw.

And also, it was three, the Enterprise pasted one of them and had to give up manuverability in order to defend the Enterprise C.

Okay, name an instance a civilian ship stayed in the corona for days without a care while also conserving energy.

Your claim is an outlier. Entire warships are endangered by flares, as per the very basics of the game itself.

Borg are no match for the W40k powers. The W40k powers in novel canon destroy continents and evacuate atmospheres in a minute (sometimes less sometimes more if we state that their weapons are triple digit teratons), and the Borg took time to make a 17 teraton bomb that spreads across the star system and 5 light years. *yawns* The Borg would have to be very lucky not to even get noticed as a major power, thus not be destroyed completely.

Look, either post something (and do it in the right section) or stop repeating the same tripe from people more talented than you. I have no patiance for someone whose only in this for his ego.

Also, I'm waiting for someone to tell me what can beat Xeelee.

Dude, no one gives a fuck about the Xeelee, but I noticed you dropped out of that thread fast enough too, no doubt allowing people with more knowledge to do your debating for you.

[Hellblade8]

no they don't.

You mean you disagree.

well they did go through...and did blast their way through.the problem was that,as in any scyfy,the asteroids in the belt were to close together...to many to shoot at.

With teratons of firepower it would have been laughably easy.

you can see an asteroid blowing up,if you don't believe me go watch the movie again.that asteroid is barley hit by the beam.

...and?

during the attack they'll forces were cut in half,then Anakin fired proton torpedoes,that can pierce shielding,into the ion cannons.When Grievous tried to fire,the cannons exploded.

And? It has nothing to do with the shields, it had to do with the defensive guns tearing apart his bombers. My point is that a general thought that bombers could blaster their way through any shields that might be present.

cuz he,like most Jedi Generals,is a brilliant strategist,and in this case he out thought Grievous.You can dislike this strategy as long as you like, it works.

...But that's my point! If they had teratons of firepower as you claim they do, then he wouldn't have bothered to have gone through with the plan! Think about it, if he knew that Grievous knew that the asteroids would provide absolutely no protection (as it wouldn't against teratons), then why would he have come up with the plan in the first place? He wouldn't! He would have already of discounted the idea simply because the asteroids were no more protective than space dust.

no,cuz tankshell doesn't require gigatones of fire to be melted away.
first of all,Anakin had only 3 Venator's,Grievous had 6 frigates,powerful ones.
second,the asteroids were,of course,close.to many of them for Anakin's forces to blast through.

...And? Grievous has run away from those odds before. Venators have proven to be able to take two to one odds with it still in their favor in a straight up fight.

and third,outnumbered,Anakins forces had no other option.

You're missing the point.

cuz they had no more available ships,they were either destroyed or probably battling the republic in orbit.plus,it wasn't Grievous it was Wat Tambor,NOT A MILITARY COMMANDER.
Wat Tambor,NOT A MILITARY COMMANDER.

And? I'm not a military commander and I could tell you that I wouldn't have done that if those lasers had KT firepower. What's your point.

the Electro-proton bomb.
yes,well,its primary effect was aimed at droids, as it basically served as a gigantic droid popper.it's explosion was intended to create a really powerful EM field.

...A nuclear explosion creats an EMP field anyway. I can't even explain how fucking redundant it is. That also doesn't explain why they thought it was such a destructive and powerful weapon.

no,it was a test of the bomb.lol.

The bomb that was like, a fraction of the power that SW lasers supposedly spit out?

you trekkies always point that SW is a kid thing,yet you always forget the millions of adults just as mature as anyone who watch the show.my mom watched the show sometime,SHE DOESN'T COMPLAIN ABOUT A CG SHOW.no,you do.

What? There's nothing wrong with the show's CGI. I'm just saying I don't feel comfortable going balls to walls the same way Wong and his cronies like to do for older ST episodes because the VFX doesn't match up.

and why is that,because you fail to understand that in the dammed show we never saw them using full power?

So when Anakin was planning his strategy, he relied on the entire hope that Grievous would use his lower settings because he was feeling nice? And did then, Anakin decide to reduce his yields for that same reason and thus lose one of his ships?

i already proven you wrong,again,but you still don't seam to understand they never did do such a thing in the show.they can do it,but since the battles happen on bloody inhabited planets....

Then their ships shouldn't even have scratches in them--and yet they do. Nor would they bother firing if they weren't willing to destroy the ship and hurt themselves on the off chance that someone has decided to lower their shields.

[Hellblade8]

note:how much is a fucking isoton ?can't fiend anything anywhere!

DS9 TM. A standard photon torpedo has a yield of 45.88 megatons and therefore a isoton yield of 18.5. That basically converts to about 2.48 megatons per isoton.

Therefore, the 200 isoton torpedoes in Voyager are 496 megatons.

Also, the Klingon Empire is at least 200 years old, if not older.

[George1]

You mean you disagree.





With teratons of firepower it would have been laughably easy.




...and?



And? It has nothing to do with the shields, it had to do with the defensive guns tearing apart his bombers. My point is that a general thought that bombers could blaster their way through any shields that might be present.



...But that's my point! If they had teratons of firepower as you claim they do, then he wouldn't have bothered to have gone through with the plan! Think about it, if he knew that Grievous knew that the asteroids would provide absolutely no protection (as it wouldn't against teratons), then why would he have come up with the plan in the first place? He wouldn't! He would have already of discounted the idea simply because the asteroids were no more protective than space dust.



...And? Grievous has run away from those odds before. Venators have proven to be able to take two to one odds with it still in their favor in a straight up fight.



You're missing the point.



And? I'm not a military commander and I could tell you that I wouldn't have done that if those lasers had KT firepower. What's your point.



...A nuclear explosion creats an EMP field anyway. I can't even explain how fucking redundant it is. That also doesn't explain why they thought it was such a destructive and powerful weapon.




The bomb that was like, a fraction of the power that SW lasers supposedly spit out?




What? There's nothing wrong with the show's CGI. I'm just saying I don't feel comfortable going balls to walls the same way Wong and his cronies like to do for older ST episodes because the VFX doesn't match up.




So when Anakin was planning his strategy, he relied on the entire hope that Grievous would use his lower settings because he was feeling nice? And did then, Anakin decide to reduce his yields for that same reason and thus lose one of his ships?




Then their ships shouldn't even have scratches in them--and yet they do. Nor would they bother firing if they weren't willing to destroy the ship and hurt themselves on the off chance that someone has decided to lower their shields.

Hellblade8,reed my comment again,cuz you really didn't understand anything said,you were to preoccupied with the idea that someone who has teratones in his weapons must always use them...when he can instead use STRATEGY,instead of simply fucking fire.with strategy you win the war,reckless fire means you just want a fight.

[Hellblade8]

Hellblade8,reed my comment again,cuz you really didn't understand anything

Oh, so this isn't an attempt to try and avoid arguing the points? Please, show me step by step, point by point, where I'm wrong.

said,you were to preoccupied with the idea that someone who has teratones in his weapons must always use them...when he can instead use STRATEGY,instead of simply fucking fire.with strategy you win the war,reckless fire means you just want a fight.

You mean where in all the instances where their uber shielding and firepower capabilites should be used? Or do you perhaps have an actual counter argument instead of just basically saying that every Imperial/Republic/CIS officer is mind numbingly stupid?

[George1]

DS9 TM. A standard photon torpedo has a yield of 45.88 megatons and therefore a isoton yield of 18.5. That basically converts to about 2.48 megatons per isoton.

Therefore, the 200 isoton torpedoes in Voyager are 496 megatons.

matte-antimatter explosions produce MUCH more.

Also, the Klingon Empire is at least 200 years old, if not older.

interesting,cuz everywhere i reed it's say it was formed in the 9th century.
even if that dose not referee to the date of they'll oldest warp flight,it still gives them quite a lot of time to develop earlier models.

[George1]

[QUOTE=Hellblade8;2547441]Oh, so this isn't an attempt to try and avoid arguing the points? Please, show me step by step, point by point, where I'm wrong.[QUOTE] that's the use of logic stupid.

You mean where in all the instances where their uber shielding and firepower capabilites should be used? Or do you perhaps have an actual counter argument instead of just basically saying that every Imperial/Republic/CIS officer is mind numbingly stupid?

oh,please,don't talk about stupidity.so if you were a general,you would just,wast energy instead of using strategy to save energy? what a dump.

[Hellblade8]

matte-antimatter explosions produce MUCH more.

...what?

interesting,cuz everywhere i reed it's say it was formed in the 9th century.
even if that dose not referee to the date of they'll oldest warp flight,it still gives them quite a lot of time to develop earlier models.

And? The design didn't show up until the late 23rd century.

[Hellblade8]

that's the use of logic stupid.

If I'm stupid, then you won't mind explaining to me just where my error is, instead of just making a short reply that avoids all my points.

oh,please,don't talk about stupidity.so if you were a general,you would just,wast energy instead of using strategy to save energy? what a dump.

If you have teratons of firepower and shielding, it's not a waste. Especially if you're intended to use those ships the way they do in the series (or are you accusing them of using too much energy now?). Nor does your argument make sense. What about DoaD? Where were the teratons? What about the godzilla tribute episode? Where were the kilotons of firepower? Why rely on such an overblown bomb? What about Ryloth?

Your entire argument is that they were basically trying to save energy--but that lacks any sense given how easy they're supposed to toss around this firepower. It's like saying that the cannon on a tank won't be used in actual combat because they want to preserve rounds. It defeats its entire purpose to begin with.

[George1]

...what?

stupid question.

And? The design didn't show up until the late 23rd century.

right,so what's the name of the series taking place BEFORE that design?
no dude,a design always has a predecessor.

[Hellblade8]

stupid question.

Excuse me? You said that antimatter-matter reactions do more, even though your argument lacks any sort of sensical claim. 45.88 megatons is exactly the amount an ounce of matter/antimatter will produce. How are you saying that it does a lot more?

right,so what's the name of the series taking place BEFORE that design?
no dude,a design always has a predecessor.

An older BoP model. I can't honestly be bothered to go digging for it right now, but it was far more archaic.

And what does it matter anyway? Each species advances at their own pace. The Klingons are technologically a bit slower on the uptake than the Romulan Empire and the UFP.

[George1]

If I'm stupid, then you won't mind explaining to me just where my error is, instead of just making a short reply that avoids all my points.

cuz i don't like repeating myself,but ok.

Originally Posted by Hellblade8
Because the ICS book fails in every aspect to get the numbers right.
”
no they don't.
“
For one, you could look to the orginal series. Ie, the Imperial fleet was afraid to go into the asteroid after the Falcon. If they had teratons of firepower they could toss out, then it would have been laughably easy. We also see that one of the ships are destroyed during these scenes; it's entire bridge tower is taken off.
”
well they did go through...and did blast their way through.the problem was that,as in any scyfy,the asteroids in the belt were to close together...to many to shoot at.

you can see an asteroid blowing up,if you don't believe me go watch the movie again.that asteroid is barley hit by the beam.
“
Then we also have the T canon, where we have Anakin planning for a squadron of Y-Wings to hit the bridge of the Malevolence to cripple the ship and kill General Grievous. If the fighters/bombers in the series were so amazingly worthless (as they're potrayed), then why would they bother sending Y-Wings against a massive, fully protected ship? They'd be basically praying that Grievous decided to be a sport and lower the shields.
”
during the attack they'll forces were cut in half,then Anakin fired proton torpedoes,that can pierce shielding,into the ion cannons.When Grievous tried to fire,the cannons exploded.
“
Or of course, we could look at Downfall of a Droid. In that episode, Grievous's fleet is going to attack Anakin, whose stationed them behind an asteroid field. Anakin correctly guessed that Grievous was going to use the asteroids as large shields to move his fleet in closer (since apparently Venators have a range advantage) and hit them while at closer range. Anakin counters it by stationing AT-TEs on asteroids and having them bombard the unshielded back ends of the CIS frigates (Grievous had double fronted them for both the asteroids and the Venators, he wasn't worried because he thought the asteroids would protect them from anyone flanking him). Ignoring the whole incident with the land-based tanks dealing damage to armored ships, why would Anakin have considered this plan?
”
cuz he,like most Jedi Generals,is a brilliant strategist,and in this case he out thought Grievous.You can dislike this strategy as long as you like, it works.
“
Think about it. You have enough firepower with 200 gigatons/800 teratons to literally vaporize your way through the asteroid field in seconds. And with the shielding required to wave off such firepower, then why would the asteroids have provided any sort of protection to Grievous's aft section? It would be as logical as pretending that a wall of pillows is going to stop a tankshell from turning you into a smear on the sidewalk.
”
no,cuz tankshell doesn't require gigatones of fire to be melted away.
first of all,Anakin had only 3 Venator's,Grievous had 6 frigates,powerful ones.
second,the asteroids were,of course,close.to many of them for Anakin's forces to blast through.
and third,outnumbered,Anakins forces had no other option.
“
Even more damnation comes in the Ryloth Trilogy, where Grievous orders a carpet bombing campaign to blame on the Clones so that more worlds would turn against the Republic. What do we see? We see a variation of the vulture droids using large, thick cinder like bombs about as tall as a B1 being loaded and used in squadron formation to destroy villages. Yet, if they had KT level laser firepower, why bother?
”
cuz they had no more available ships,they were either destroyed or probably battling the republic in orbit.plus,it wasn't Grievous it was Wat Tambor,NOT A MILITARY COMMANDER.
“
A single volley would be far more effective in showing the true horrors of bombing. What's more, they could have split them up into smaller units to deliver more attacks. It would have been far more effective and would have made Anakin's attempt to stop them not only more difficult, but his attempts would require that he use firepower that could destroy said fighter and therefore put any nearby village in danger just as well.
”
Wat Tambor,NOT A MILITARY COMMANDER.
“
And finally, we get an episode in this last season where the Republic tries testing out a new weapon of amazing potential--and guess what? It's the Godzilla tribute too, which really says a lot here. Basically, the Republic drops a large bomb about two to four times larger than a proton torpedo and it creates a large mushroom cloud (not 10 kt though) before imploding and sending out a massive EMP blast.
”
the Electro-proton bomb.
yes,well,its primary effect was aimed at droids, as it basically served as a gigantic droid popper.it's explosion was intended to create a really powerful EM field.
“
And yet...why? They had a small squadron of Y-Wings..why bother with some new weapon that's clearly no more powerful than the supposed firepower on their fighters? If what ICS said were true, then the fighters would have blasted them with either proton torpedoes or their own cannons--they wouldn't have needed to fly right over the site with a large, bulky bomb attached to them and drop it on them. It's entirely non-sensical.
”
no,it was a test of the bomb.lol.
“
And that's not even mentioning where Slave I--the thing supposed more powerful than the Enterprise D by some claims, being cut apart by a lightsaber and then crashing. Nor am I even going into the nitpicking about visual effects (it's a kid's show, despite its higher canon status, so I don't feel comfortable playing that strict of game--but if I did, it would get much worse and fast).
”
you trekkies always point that SW is a kid thing,yet you always forget the millions of adults just as mature as anyone who watch the show.my mom watched the show sometime,SHE DOESN'T COMPLAIN ABOUT A CG SHOW.no,you do.
“
In short, the Clone Wars has destroyed every shred of possible claim that the ICS has put forth. The highest figures for an Imperial Class Star Destroyer is at most a megaton for the strongest gun...and really probably more in the kiloton stages. They typicall run on fusion reactors (ie, hypermatter reactors have shown that at least prototype ISD IIs would blow up due to insufficient ability to keep them working).
”
and why is that,because you fail to understand that in the dammed show we never saw them using full power?
“
To believe that they're powerful enough to literally reduce the surface of a planet to molten slag is laughable.
”
i already proven you wrong,again,but you still don't seam to understand they never did do such a thing in the show.they can do it,but since the battles happen on bloody inhabited planets....

If you have teratons of firepower and shielding, it's not a waste. Especially if you're intended to use those ships the way they do in the series (or are you accusing them of using too much energy now?).

the weapons of the venator are made to take all the energy of the reactor if needed.

Nor does your argument make sense. What about DoaD? Where were the teratons? What about the godzilla tribute episode? Where were the kilotons of firepower? Why rely on such an overblown bomb? What about Ryloth?

one thing:CUZ IT'S NOT IN THE SCRIPT.

Your entire argument is that they were basically trying to save energy--but that lacks any sense given how easy they're supposed to toss around this firepower. It's like saying that the cannon on a tank won't be used in actual combat because they want to preserve rounds. It defeats its entire purpose to begin with.

fail.they have plenty of energy,but you don't seam to get my point.
my new point:you suck at the conception of battle.
old point:they win without the need to use only firepower.

[George1]

Excuse me? You said that antimatter-matter reactions do more, even though your argument lacks any sort of sensical claim. 45.88 megatons is exactly the amount an ounce of matter/antimatter will produce. How are you saying that it does a lot more?

more.

[Hellblade8]

cuz i don't like repeating myself,but ok.

Concession accepted, since you clearly have no intention of debating the matter.

the weapons of the venator are made to take all the energy of the reactor if needed.

It's claimed that a Acclamator's guns are 200 GT and that it's a transport ship (which is funny, because Acclamators don't have any guns at all), so what about those? Or even a fraction of that 800 teraton figures? Where is it all?

one thing:CUZ IT'S NOT IN THE SCRIPT.

Wow, that's a flimsy excuse. "It's the script's problem, not mine!" is rather weak. The script describes what happens in this episode, in every movie, and every book. How can your argument be taken at face value when it so amazingly fails?

fail.they have plenty of energy,but you don't seam to get my point.
my new point:you suck at the conception of battle.

Then go back to my counterpoints and start talking. Thus far, you're making flimsy excuses.

old point:they win without the need to use only firepower.

Yes, because most militaries find that using the least, most ineffectual means of using their weapons is what wins the day.

more.

What are you talking about?

[ricrery]

Nice smokescreen.

My point was that vague claims can be made from any sci-fi series. 40k is no exception.

Oh no, that is not vague, that is truth and if you fucking hate it, then leave. They destroy continents, and that is not an outlier or vague statement.

Solar flares.

Game mechanics. In actuality, they can take continent destroying hits and have civilian cruisers sit in stars for days.

Your opinion. Please take it to the appropriate thread.

Well, how am I to do so now?

I give a shit...why? It's spacebattles that has rules against using game mechanics to interpret information (even though they violate it themselves...oops), not here. Therefore, your argument is null an' void.

Okay, novels have bombardments evacuating atmospheres, crusts melting, water vaporizing, and lots of other things. Oh fuck, the Rulebook says they can level a continent with weapons batteries, let alone lances. Your whole debate is "OH NO, IT'S VAGUE, DON'T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY." and such. Well, no, I'll take what is try canon whether you like it or not.

I've already iviscerated your argument here. If you wish to go back to it and start arguing now how all of those sources that I've shot down are suddenly differnet now, then please, go ahead.

Okay, let's see, Exterminatus involves crusts melting, atmospheres dying, and water vaporizing. In "Survivors" the Enterprise was scared of a bombardment that did none of this.

Done looking like an idiot?

Oh no, it was clearly vague, he could have been stating a hyprbole.

The fuck is that supposed to mean?

Oh, the usual.

Oh wow, big man. Come here acting like tough shit--and yet when it's specifically said that the solar flares that you're claiming are so effective against ST ships turn out to be entirely artificial and in some cases not even really solar flares in the typical sense, you just want to ignore it.

Artificial solar flares < real solar flares. Plus, W40k ships are NOT endangered by solar flares.

There are multiple classes of the BoP. This was an issue early TNG had because it was rather inconsistant with ship capabilities (against each other) and sizes. In this case, those BoPs were hundreds of meters long, not like the small BoP that we saw.

Well, it seems some classes can scare away two Romulan ships even though they're just scout ships.

Your claim is an outlier. Entire warships are endangered by flares, as per the very basics of the game itself.

Wrong. Outlier? Even though every other novel says otherwise, game mechanics are out of luck, as the RULEBOOK says that CONTINENTS can be LEVELED by WEAPONS BATTERIES. Oh and don't give me that *kiloton-megaton* crap.

Look, either post something (and do it in the right section) or stop repeating the same tripe from people more talented than you. I have no patiance for someone whose only in this for his ego.

*everyone*: Warhammer 40,000 has teraton weaponry that can level continents.

*you*: Warhammer 40,000 has megaton weaponry that can't bombard a planet.

Dude, no one gives a fuck about the Xeelee, but I noticed you dropped out of that thread fast enough too, no doubt allowing people with more knowledge to do your debating for you.

I never dropped out, I just can't go there because of topic derailing master Kittamaru getting me and him banned for *gasp* topic derailment that I told Kittamaru to stop. Anyway, you said 31st century Federation beats them, so you aren't allowed to talk right now.