Star Wars vs Star Trek

[mars13]

first off,its not how big your lazer is ,its whether or not it can be used effectively.

second,the enterprise CAN blow up a planet with a single blast. they just dont like to . they accidently blew up a planet trying to save it.


third,st sheild can with stand alot phasers and photon torpedoes, sw shields can be flown throu with a small craft,st shields are solid,and repel any attack,not juts energy attacks.


fourth,the borg only use personal shields because they have had organs removed and replaced with energy producing tech,and they have been heavily modified . st could use personal shields,but the amount of cyborg parts would turn them into the borg.so they dont use them


fifth,storm trooper are weak as hell. they are clones,if you can outswart one you can outsmart ALL of them. the federation had clones,but they were enginered to be too powerful to control. they could revive the program if they wanted to,but redshirt ensigns would be enough to fight off any amount of worthless troopers.

sixth,the enterprise is almost undeafeted,they have a staggering track record of defeating any and all enemys that have attacked them.the death star WAS destroyed by ewoks and degenarate gamblers.


seventh,data vs c3po and r2d2= data turns them into effeminant scrap.


eighth,once the jedi and the empire start fighting with the federation the mydoclordia will spread throu out the galaxy, the fed would have the force tech after a week. and they could synthesize and antidote to combat the '
mytoclordia.or just use the jedi techniques for them selves.

ninth, size does not matter when it comes to space,the federation destroyed the borg,rikers future ship could destroy a cube in one blast.within 1 week all federation ships would be outfitted for battle.

tenth, st has replicaters,this makes modifications and rebuilding easy. it took years to build a death star,it would take st a month to make a fleet of galaxy class star ships.

eleventh,st has cloak,the empire wouldnt even know what hit them after a horde of klingons blasted there lazers into atoms.

twelth, kirk or riker would kick the shit out of han solo and his poor gambling.
hell,the st crew could just bet aginst han and we all know who is the better gamblers.

thirteenth, Q and the continuim

fourteenth,sw vehicles are stupid at best,two tiny little blasters on the front of HUGE SLOW walking things? all sw vehicles are of such ridiculous design.
one ensign with a phaser hiding behind a rock could easily take out half a dozen lazer walkers.if one grenade or log can take them out,i know a phaser can.if fact,they appear weaker then most modern military vehicles or even regular cars.

fifthteenth,most of the energy beings of st could very easily destroy any sw threat, every time a sw ship encountered a temperal anomaly or energy being they would try shooting it and destroy them selves.sw is not known for its ability to get out of a situation without violence,a huge disadvantage for the st universe,where thinking and stratagy save the day more then violence.


sixteenth,sw has almost no sensors,they are a joke at best,st sensor tech is
is so far advanced then sw.sw ships wouldnt even be close enough to fire before a st ship had launched a attack. and the lack of warp engines makes them sitting dukes against torpedoes that can travel at warp.


seventeenth,you dont fix st ships by hitting the control panel.you have to actualy reconnect the broken wires and things. sw ships are busted garbage scows compared to the federations top notch fleet. even klingon ships are in better shape then sw ships.

[mars13]

also, the force can only effect thing that contain mydoclordia.

so the jedi would be powerless until the mydo spread throut the galaxy. and thats assuming the st couldnt make an antidote against them.

so 99% of the jedis ''tricks'' would not work. then its just light saber vs phaser.

and the phaser has a much broader attack and longer attack then a 3 foot energy sword.plus the phaser can be modulated to phase throu light sabers.
thats why they call it a phaser.


also,sw shield dont seem to be solid,small ships and infintry can just walk throu them,while st shields are solid.


and st has much more superior materials then sw. a log can crush a walker.that makes their vehicles about as strong as sheet metal. st ships are a tritanium alloy about three feet thick. even the shuttle is about 6 inches of tritanium.and i know sticks and rocks cannot effect a shuttle.

i bet the light saber would have trouble cutting tritanium.but phasers take zero effort to vaporize sheet metal.

[Kron]

I beleive everyone is forgetting Dune. Also, can anyone explain exactly what are midochlorians? If they are what I think they are then Dune may have got its best advantage over SW yet.

[Fafnir665]

well, I only saw one problem,

fifth,storm trooper are weak as hell. they are clones,if you can outswart one you can outsmart ALL of them. the federation had clones,but they were enginered to be too powerful to control. they could revive the program if they wanted to,but redshirt ensigns would be enough to fight off any amount of worthless troopers.

Not true, that was the CLONE wars, that was only for the 'stormtroopers' of that time. IF you had only watched the movies, then you might make the assumption that they are the same, but in reality the stormtroopers of the empire era are all trained human recruits from across the galaxy

[mars13]

either way they are worthless aginst enemies.

they DID lose to ewoks,after all.

[Prince_James]

kv1at3485:

And the ST galaxy cannot have thousands of political units with thousands of worlds each?

Evidently, it does not. The Delta Quadrant: Dominated by the Borg and a handful of other species. Gamma Quadrant: Dominated by formally by the Dominion. Alpha Quadrant and Beta Quadrant: Fed, Klingons, Cardassians, et cetera. None of these, besides the aforementioned Borg, have more than a few hundred worlds.

That in ST one encounters warp capable 'aliens of the week' all of the time within short distances of each other would imply a significant density of occupation, to put it lightly.

Generally these aliens are known to the Fed before, or if not, are very small players in the galaxy.

It won't matter if they can be detected if they cannot be intercepted. Firepower is useless unless it can be brought to bare.

Block the path and fire as much as possible at the object. Eventually you'll hit. Not to mention that within hundreds of years, the Empire will likely develop a means to reach real-space speeds equatable to warp.

I dispute that 'feasibility'. To be able to lead a shot against a ship in FTL transit using SW weapons a SW ship would literally have to be right in front of a ship in FTL transit.

Considering the sensors, this is quite possible. One could also drive hyperdrive projectiles, such as those fired by the Galaxy Gun, to deal with FTL ships.

(I cannot help but remember the SW movies where you have predictably moving capships blasting each other from a single-digit kilometre range with weapons that can be tracked quite easily by the naked eye.)

Electronic warfare scrambling.

A ship at warp may not be able to make any radical manoeuvers, but it will be able to make small deviations in course and speed to throw off fire from a sublight source.

There is a great possibility of harrying fire eventually doing enough damage to disable the ship.

I thought about that. There are multiple instances of crews or groups of people going into hibernation/cryosleep/stasis for periods of time ranging from a few weeks, a few years, a few centuries, to a near millenia (at least from the cases I remember.)

Yes, which would also mean that there is no one controlling the ship, hence it would be easily destroyed.

mars13:

second,the enterprise CAN blow up a planet with a single blast. they just dont like to . they accidently blew up a planet trying to save it.

Episode and series, please? I've never witnessed the Enterprise "blowing up a planet" before.

third,st sheild can with stand alot phasers and photon torpedoes, sw shields can be flown throu with a small craft,st shields are solid,and repel any attack,not juts energy attacks.

SW shields are permeable by small ships? Reference to this, please? Also reference to ST's shields being non-permeable? When the Enterprise got stuck in that asteroid, it required the Phoenix's matter-phase shield and didn't just plow through the solid rock by repelling it with the shields.

fourth,the borg only use personal shields because they have had organs removed and replaced with energy producing tech,and they have been heavily modified . st could use personal shields,but the amount of cyborg parts would turn them into the borg.so they dont use them

Yes, so they get their defeated in the mean time.

fifth,storm trooper are weak as hell. they are clones,if you can outswart one you can outsmart ALL of them. the federation had clones,but they were enginered to be too powerful to control. they could revive the program if they wanted to,but redshirt ensigns would be enough to fight off any amount of worthless troopers.

ACtually, Storm Troopers are -not- all clones. That is the Grand Army of the Republic you are speaking of, which are retired by the time of the Galactic Civil War. Moreover, the Storm Troopers which are clones, do not come from one genetic base (like the Clone Troopers) and show autonomy in decision.

And yes, "Redshirt Ensigns" would be really, really great against the most feared infantry this side of the Sardaukar.

sixth,the enterprise is almost undeafeted,they have a staggering track record of defeating any and all enemys that have attacked them.the death star WAS destroyed by ewoks and degenarate gamblers.

The Enterprise has never faced anything even REMOTELY close to Star Wars tech. Not even -remotely-. They have faced -nothing- at that level.

seventh,data vs c3po and r2d2= data turns them into effeminant scrap.

Deta v. Droideka, Super Battledroids, Mandalorian Basillisk droids, Xim the Despot Wardroids, Grieveous's anti-Jedi staff-droids = Data scrapped. You do also realize that C3P0 was built by a -child- out of -spare parts-, yes?

eighth,once the jedi and the empire start fighting with the federation the mydoclordia will spread throu out the galaxy, the fed would have the force tech after a week. and they could synthesize and antidote to combat the '
mytoclordia.or just use the jedi techniques for them selves.

What? The midichlorians would "spread throughout the galaxy"? It is not a disease that infects people. And you do realize it takes -years- to develop Force proficiency, not to mention that you have to -find out how to use the Force-, yes?

ninth, size does not matter when it comes to space,the federation destroyed the borg,rikers future ship could destroy a cube in one blast.within 1 week all federation ships would be outfitted for battle.

LMAO. And that is why they got devestated by the Borg, the Dominion, and other enemies numerous times? And the Borg are destroyed? When? The end of Voyager?

tenth, st has replicaters,this makes modifications and rebuilding easy. it took years to build a death star,it would take st a month to make a fleet of galaxy class star ships.

And why do we never see this? Why do we not see the Fed be like: Oh well, if we lose this battle, it'll only take a week to make another fleet of our ships. Ontop of that, replicators have never been demonstrated to be able to produce material above food and drink or small quantities of other things.

eleventh,st has cloak,the empire wouldnt even know what hit them after a horde of klingons blasted there lazers into atoms.

Tachyon tracking. The Empire has it. Not to mention the Empire also has cloak, but it works on the scientific basis of cloaking.

twelth, kirk or riker would kick the shit out of han solo and his poor gambling.
hell,the st crew could just bet aginst han and we all know who is the better gamblers.

Han Solo won a ship in a sabaac game. He seems to be a pretty good gambler. Not to meniton that Han Solo is not the only military mind in SW, and in fact, he -isn't even one-. Grand Moff Tarkin, Grand Admiral Thrawn, Admiral Ackbar, General Veers, General Grieveous, General Kenobi, Revan, Malak...

thirteenth, Q and the continuim

Considering they are universal entities, equally more likely to help the Empire, tno to mention Q would be stopped by the rest of the continuum for interfering. Q has been punished (harshly) before and can be again.

fourteenth,sw vehicles are stupid at best,two tiny little blasters on the front of HUGE SLOW walking things? all sw vehicles are of such ridiculous design.
one ensign with a phaser hiding behind a rock could easily take out half a dozen lazer walkers.if one grenade or log can take them out,i know a phaser can.if fact,they appear weaker then most modern military vehicles or even regular cars.

If the phasers could even scratch the armour. COnsidering we've never seen a phaser to do a single thing impressively, I would not imagine this is very possible at all.

fifthteenth,most of the energy beings of st could very easily destroy any sw threat, every time a sw ship encountered a temperal anomaly or energy being they would try shooting it and destroy them selves.sw is not known for its ability to get out of a situation without violence,a huge disadvantage for the st universe,where thinking and stratagy save the day more then violence.

Yes, and a "space anomaly" is going to end up destroying the entire SW Galaxy. Righttt. NOt to mention you are completely sterotyping SW here. Not everyone has a "shoot it first" mindset in SW.

sixteenth,sw has almost no sensors,they are a joke at best,st sensor tech is
is so far advanced then sw.sw ships wouldnt even be close enough to fire before a st ship had launched a attack. and the lack of warp engines makes them sitting dukes against torpedoes that can travel at warp.

"Sitting ducks" against something that couldn't even scratch their armour or shields. That's like saying a dinosaur is "a sitting duck against a cockroach's piss!". Ontop of that, what do you base SW's sensor inadequacy in?

seventeenth,you dont fix st ships by hitting the control panel.you have to actualy reconnect the broken wires and things. sw ships are busted garbage scows compared to the federations top notch fleet. even klingon ships are in better shape then sw ships.

And that's why SW ships don't have massive electrical surges producing actual fires and sparks everytime their ships are touched by enemy fire, right?

also, the force can only effect thing that contain mydoclordia.

Rocks don't, and the Force can work with them just fine.

so the jedi would be powerless until the mydo spread throut the galaxy. and thats assuming the st couldnt make an antidote against them.

See above.

and the phaser has a much broader attack and longer attack then a 3 foot energy sword.plus the phaser can be modulated to phase throu light sabers.
thats why they call it a phaser.

So the Jedi will wear personal shields or armour.

also,sw shield dont seem to be solid,small ships and infintry can just walk throu them,while st shields are solid.

ANd that's why the ATATs at Hoth had to destroy the shield generator before a massive infantry strike to secure the Hoth base, right?

and st has much more superior materials then sw. a log can crush a walker.that makes their vehicles about as strong as sheet metal. st ships are a tritanium alloy about three feet thick. even the shuttle is about 6 inches of tritanium.and i know sticks and rocks cannot effect a shuttle.

Scout vehicles have necessarily lighter armour than other things.

i bet the light saber would have trouble cutting tritanium.but phasers take zero effort to vaporize sheet metal.

I have no idea how fast a lightsabre could cut through that metal, but as we see from the superior alloys of SW (such as heavy durasteel) the lightsabre has little trouble cutting through such things.

Kron:

I beleive everyone is forgetting Dune. Also, can anyone explain exactly what are midochlorians? If they are what I think they are then Dune may have got its best advantage over SW yet.

Tiny sub-cellular organisms which, when found in great enough quantity, allow someone the necessary connection to the Force to manipulate it with training.

[mars13]

ok,first off phasers completly destroy molecular bonds in materials,they can vaporize a humanoid in 1 hit.

a lightsaber is just a bar of lazer light.thats it.

if the lightsaber can penetrate walker armour, then the phaser could very easily vaporize large sections of it with no effort at a distance.


and you claim sw has superior materials?well they sure dont use them for armour on anything.those little walkers got taken out by two logs,thats a fact.and the big walkers got taken out by trip wires.

the little walker was crushed like a tin can,it didnt apear to have any more amour then a good size american car.

the big walker fell straight over from a wire,and with only two puny guns it wasnt going to be very effective any way.

now,federation ships are made froma tritanium alloy,its like plastic ,steel,titanium,and some other elements we havent discovered yet.
a typical federation ship has between 6 and 18 inches of tritanium.

but as we have seen,when riker had the futur enterprise,he proably had doubled the armour.along with shields that can be modulated to become immune to an atack like the borg .
also the phased cloak ship that can pass throu solid matter,and mulitpahsic transporters,as well as modulating phase cannons,and hundreds if not thousands of photon torpedoes[they can haul alot more during wartime then a typical compliment].put all this in one ship and the empire is doomed.

one photon torp beamed into a star destroys reacter would blow it apart.

with phase claok they could just fly throu the shields and beam it in.

there would be nothing the empire could do because the ships would be phased out of this dimension.conventiaonal weaponary would be useless agianst them.

one well placed shot takes out a death star,and thats the biggest baddest ship they got right?



now you also said that replicaters dont do anything?

well they can be used to make a self replicating mine field,which can be equiped with cloak and placed anywhere and replicate exponentialy,and since sw ships realy on hyperdrive,they cant manuaver at hyperspeed.so they would be screwed against a giant lightyears big mass of mines.

the federation would take heavy loses at first,until the r+d scientist reinstated about half a dozen closed top secret programs and the federation became the most powerful huminoids in exsistance.

it would take a hundred years or more to finanly eradicate the empire,but members of the federation excell at over coming larger enemies.

the defet gods and super beings that make death star look puny. the destroyed the planet killer alien,it could easily eat a death star.

they reason with beings that view us a bugs,beings that an change the entire galaxy at a whim,and still they survive.

from every spacial anomly to giant energy being,they have defeated them all.

besides,the women of star trek are SOOOOooo much hotter then leia,or amadalia.

three words...

GREEN SKIN GIRLS!!!!!!

[kv1at3485]

Evidently, it does not. The Delta Quadrant: Dominated by the Borg and a handful of other species. Gamma Quadrant: Dominated by formally by the Dominion. Alpha Quadrant and Beta Quadrant: Fed, Klingons, Cardassians, et cetera. None of these, besides the aforementioned Borg, have more than a few hundred worlds.

Generally these aliens are known to the Fed before, or if not, are very small players in the galaxy.

It should be noted that the nations you state occupy very small volumes of their respective 'quadrants'. The Federation, for example, is barely 100 light years in radius. And this is for a galaxy which is 100000 light years across.

The examples you use only 'dominate' very small fractions of any one quadrant. There knowledge of the remainder of the galaxy is necessarily limited. There is room for other major units, or for a mass multitude of smaller units.

Block the path and fire as much as possible at the object. Eventually you'll hit.

Unquantifiable claim, but see further below...

Not to mention that within hundreds of years, the Empire will likely develop a means to reach real-space speeds equatable to warp.

Possible. That would begin curtailing the effectiveness of ST missions after a certain period of time, the slower ones at least.

Considering the sensors, this is quite possible. One could also drive hyperdrive projectiles, such as those fired by the Galaxy Gun, to deal with FTL ships.

Assuming that SW sensors will break through ST stealth methods. Not only unquantified, but unwise.

Besides, while SW has hyperspace FTL sensors, whether they have realspace FTL sensors is up for debate.

And ever if SW does have realspace FTL sensors, see further below...

Electronic warfare scrambling.

Slow weapon speed. If I were to take turbolaser bolts as an example: no more than 1000 km/s. And that is being generous, I think you'll agree.

There is a great possibility of harrying fire eventually doing enough damage to disable the ship.

Fine. Let us assume that SW does have realspace FTL weapons and sensors. Let us say the speed of said weapons and sensors are on the order of 5*10^10 c. (To put that number in perspective, that's like going across the Milky Way in less than 20 seconds. By comparison, ST's quantum slipstream drive can do the same distance in a few hours at worst.)

Now, let us say that the relative lateral velocity between the target (the ST ship you can say) and the firer (the SW weapon platform) is a mere 3.6 c, and that the relative lateral acceleration (basically the target's rate of manoeuvering, after all, flying in a straight line is asking for trouble) is but a paltry 0.1 g's. Oh, and the target has a crosssection with the radius of 2 km.

A rough calculation shows that to hit the target you literally have to be right beside it. If the relative lateral velocity goes down to 3.5 c, then the statistical chance of hitting the target becomes greater than 0 at a range of about a light-day. (To be guarenteed to hit, you still need to be literally right beside the target. Apparently, to get a range where you can be statistically guarenteed to hit the target, the relative velocity has to be somewhere in between 2.48998888890801 and 2.48998888890802 c. I couldn't be bothered to make another section for the spreadsheet.)

Frankly, 4 c is protista-slow even by ST standards...

Yes, which would also mean that there is no one controlling the ship, hence it would be easily destroyed.

How do you come to that conclusion?

[Arquibus]

People seem to be forgetting, yet again, the many advantages that Star Wars has. As usual, this degenerates into Star Trek versus Jedi and Empire. Several points are attempted by you people without making accurate realizations as well.

Stormtroopers are not weak, and neither are Imperial Assault vehicles. Neither was showcased well in the movies because of 1) the pro-rebel viewpoint of the movies and 2) the small scale warfare that was shown. The Empire crushed thousands of resisting worlds with the power of its Stormtrooper Core. Stormtroopers are heavily trained and are easily equivalent to veteran forces of any army when they are green. And, they have emotion trained out of them, meaning there is no mercy to be had and no chance of making a deal. Stormtroopers are unsusceptible to any negotiatians short of mind control. As for the vehicles, let's see...AT-AT walkers that can level cities with their lasers and blasters-by the way, AT-ATs have two lasers and two blasters, on the sides of the head and on the chin. AT-STs, scout walkers designed for light patrol and assault, carrying two blaster cannons, a light repeating anti-personnel blaster ("Light" as in .50 cal machinegun "light") and a concussion grenade launcher or rocket launcher, capable by itself of putting down a squad of soldiers. Then there is the AT-PT, a single infantry combat walker with a pair of repeating blasters originally created for urban combat by the Republic. Then there is the speeder bikes which serve as light recon platforms and are capable of hit-and-run missions on troop movements when deployed in force. Then there are Millenium Tanks, A Sienar design incorporating TIE fighter characteristics into a medium battle tank. MT-ATs, mountain operations assault transports with similar armament as an AT-AT but with eight anti-personnel turrets on its legs. AT-AAs, anti-starfighter platforms that can reduce a squadron of fighters to rubble in moments with a large multi-dircetional turret. Chariot command vehicles, heavily armored assault posts. And, remember World Devastators? You know, those huge honkin' constuction platforms that ripped Mon Calamari apart and built TIEs and other things with its weapons. And of course, this is only Imperial stuff. There is a host of other stuff as well.

Then there are the midichlorians. I don't know why someone thinks they are a disease. They are creatures that dwell within the genetic information storage area of the cells. You can't cure someone of midichlorians without killing them, and no antidote can be created that the body would allow to get at the cells.

Star Wars ships are travel through hyperspace and are not susceptible to wide field mine layers while in transit. They are not part of the space time continuum that the galaxy exists in.

The Star Wars universe is considerably larger that the Star Trek one for that very reason. It is a universe. Various alien species and other things have come from outside of the galaxy and are part of the lore all the same.

Star Wars supporters, remember to use all your ammo. Remember the Hapans, the Republic and New Republic, the Sith, the Hutts, the CSA, the Yuuzhan Vong, the Chiss Ascendancy, the Ssi-Ruuvi Imperium, the Pirate and smugglers groups, the Charon, the Confederacy of Independent Systems, and all the various other worlds and allainces that haven't been covered. Remember the multitudes of alien races, the various other weapon types, the other Force traditions, and the various equipment available to us.

[mars13]

you still havent provided one shred of evidence to support

sw as winning any conflict.

phasers disintegrate sub atomic matter,that includes storm troopers and any form of walker sw makes.

blasters are tiny lazer canons barely capable of making small burn holes. they wont even go throu a cyber hand,remeber?
a phaser would have disientgrated luke .



and you still havent addresed the issues of giant planet eating monsters that get stronger when you attack them.the death stars would be eaten rather quickley.


st comes across hundreds if not thousands of new creatures and technologies every day, keep in mind most start trek has focused on the enterprise,there are thousands of other starships and star bases in the federation.

heres a quik fact about the empire,THEY WERE DEFEATED!!!!!!

they lost,leaving a handful of rebel worlds and a displaced imperial forces.

oh and the dumbest most retarded vulcan is still a thousand times smarter then senetor ovaltine.
as it turns out the federation is not scared by old bueracrates.

THE FEDERATION HAS TAKEN ON THE GODS THEM SELVES!!!!

they have encountered hundreds of beings with mind control ,beings thousands of times stronger then the emperor.

OOOOHHHHH!!!!! lightning hands!!! yeah the feds have delt with that before too.


and what was that crap about the movie being made pro rebell???? the empire lost,winners get to write the history books,so the movie was from the rebels view point.

sw has never encountered any thing like the borg,they number in the billions and are unstoppable.if they cant kill you know they will go back in time and destroy you then.

and not to mention the billions of cardassians and romulons and klingons special forces,they have been at war for melenia,they have gotten good at destroying enemies.

also,the reason that st stopped using ground based vehicles is because they have transporters, and phasers just destroy vehicles in one hit any way,so the need for ground based vehicles was eliminated.

without transporter tech the empire is screwed,one shield goes down they can beam in a photon torpedo and destroy any size ship they want.


also,st shields are mullti phasic,they can change their frequency to counter an emenies attack.

against lazers the navigational shields are more then enough,you assume that because the empire has higher power weapons that they are more effecient.

its like a tazer vs a car battery,the car battery can electrocute someone and knock them down,but the tazer can do the exact same thing but using only a tiny 9 volt,or a fraction of the power out put.

your puny empire is toast,and the jedi are jelly,along with a big glass of ass wup for anyone left.

what about resistance is futile do you not understand?

[Arquibus]

I merely refuse to accept it.

You know, Star Wars has matter disintegration weapons as well. They are called Disruptors. They are illegal across the civillized areas of the galaxy, with exception to Hutt Space, but they are still fairly widespread. Yet, despite this technology, a disruptor shot could not just destroy a walker. The construction of the armor prevents that.

Next, you fail to understand that blasters and lasers in SW are not really lasers. They use superheated gases to create irradiated heat energy that causes damage to anything.

Next, there is this guy named Grand Admiral Thrawn. The man was undefeated in tactical engagements. He could completely understand his opponents' psychology by studying art that they liked or allowing them a single pass against his forces. He was unstoppable by any enemy actions. Oh, and Thrawn trained others as well.

Next, there was this guy named Darth Bane. His armor absorbed energy and fed off of his connection to the dark side. This means He was impervious to any kind of handheld weapons. Also, his armor was nothing special, just orbalisk parasites attached to his body, so others could use it as well.

Next, the Barabels created their own set of armor that used microbial life native to certain high radiation areas of their world to absorb incoming energy. Not much a phaser is gonna do.

Next, the borg have already proven to be vulnerable to projectile and standard melee weapons. Slugthrowers, rocket launchers, dart guns, and other more specialized projectile weapons, as well as both normal bladed and vibrobladed weapons proliferate throughout the galaxy.

A lightsaber can only be stopped by one material outside of the orbalisks, a mineral called cortosis. This is completely accepted and therefore a lightsaber cannot be stopped in any other manner.

Then there is the issue of this horrible planet eating monster. Uhhh, it can be destroyed right? I mean, a resonance torpedoe fired at that baby, and the whole system will be eating planet-devouring-monster stew. Or, if that isn't good enough, how about using the Force to push it into a black hole in the Maw? Not much you can do for that, is there?

There is all manner of special weapons, equipment, creatures, force powers, and many other things that are effective in a multitude of ways that could stop ST forces.

[Kron]

The truth is, both universes seem to have mind-numbingly powerful capabilities but they can be downplayed whenever the producers want to. (Example: The walkers can't be hurt by disruptors but CAN be hurt by trees) Combined with the fact that everyone has a, to quote Arquibus, "I merely refuse to accept it" outlook; and you get a very whacked excuse of a debate.

Can everyone start DEBATING PLEASE (As in listening to other arguments and thinking about them). I've just read some very stupid statements here (Stopping a planet-eating monster with a quantum resonance torpedo? HAHAHAHA), and I would like everyone to remember that Sciforums is supposed to be an intelligent community.

However, everyone is still forgetting Dune. It isn't too hard to believe that the Tleilaxu can geengineer Face Dancers with midichlorians (for force-sensitive spies), or people without them (for invisibility to the force). I think the 'invisiblity to the force' is already covered after the Bene Gesserit cultivated Siona's genes.

Prince_James: Nice debating on your side, but can you please drop the 'Bene Gesserit can't learn LightSabers' argument? Its just baseless.

[Arquibus]

What I refused to accept was the stereotypical "Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated" crap. On the next note, why would a resonance torpedo, which can cause a star to go supernova, not kill off some biological vermin that feasts on terrestrial mud pies? Further, I did not say a disruptor was useless against a walker, merely not instantly effective, to prove that the armor is capable of withstanding suc things, if only temporarily. Next, the midichlorians are not the sole portion of being able to use the force, only one prerequisite. At the same time, midichlorians are not required to be affected by the force. Only the Yuuzhan Vong and their creations are immune to the Force, and even that immunity is only direct. Maybe Vader never could have force gripped a Vong, but he could topple a pile of boulders down on one. And, as for the Bene Gesserit, while one could learn to use a lightsaber, it would take intense training and, more importantly, the Benes could not create them. But I don't see the big deal anyway. The Jedi are not made by their weapon. Look at Jedi like Vodo Siosk Bask (I think I spelled that right). He was a powerful Jedi Weapon Master that favored a quarterstaff. Then, there are always cortosis weave weapons and vibroblades...
If we could debate one issue at a time, it would be much more ordered and would seem less chaotic, Kron, but that just isn't happening right now. However, if everyone agreed, it could.

[Hapsburg]

you still havent provided one shred of evidence to support
sw as winning any conflict.

Yes we have, but like a retard, you ignore it. Typical Trekkie.

phasers disintegrate sub atomic matter,that includes storm troopers and any form of walker sw makes.

Phasers are still not powerful enough to do jack fucking shit to Imperial Vehicle armor...maybe, maybe stormie armor, but not walkers or tanks.

blasters are tiny lazer canons barely capable of making small burn holes. they wont even go throu a cyber hand,remeber?
a phaser would have disientgrated luke .

LASER. Get it right, fucktard. As for the blasters not killing Luke, have ya ever heard of things called "character shields"? It breaks reality and canon rules- that's why the rebels win in every damn movie.
Blaster rifles used by stormtroopers can -vaporize- Sandcrawlers. Watch Ep.4. Remember how big a sandcrawler was? Blasters fried that sucka., just go back and watch the movie.

and you still havent addresed the issues of giant planet eating monsters that get stronger when you attack them.the death stars would be eaten rather quickley.

Big whupp. Death Stars are not the most powerful superweapons the Empire has, you know.

st comes across hundreds if not thousands of new creatures and technologies every day, keep in mind most start trek has focused on the enterprise,there are thousands of other starships and star bases in the federation.

Not even close. If anything, they have few hundred. They are barely prepared for a war within thier own galaxy.

heres a quik fact about the empire,THEY WERE DEFEATED!!!!!!

Because Palpatine was ASSASSINATED by his inner circle- i.e VADER.
The rebels weren't even much of a threat until Yavin, and even then they were not the biggest problem to the Empire.
The Yuuzhan Vong was smart enough not the attack when the Empire existed- they knew they'd get fucked over and over and over.

they lost,leaving a handful of rebel worlds and a displaced imperial forces.

Not true. They disintegrated, slowly. It took decades for the Remnant to be defeated by the Republic and the later Vong invasion. They still remained, in the SW universe, and are one of the primary constituents of the GFFA.

oh and the dumbest most retarded vulcan is still a thousand times smarter then senetor ovaltine.
as it turns out the federation is not scared by old bueracrates.

But they would be scared of a military power hundreds of times stronger than them, such as the SW 'verse.

THE FEDERATION HAS TAKEN ON THE GODS THEM SELVES!!!!

There are no gods, you deluded theist fool.

they have encountered hundreds of beings with mind control ,beings thousands of times stronger then the emperor.

Not likely. Palpatine was not even close to being the strongest Force User ever, yet he was powerful enough to conspire the creation of the Empire right below the eyes of the jedi and powerful enough to bring the Second Republic to it's knees when he returned.
Let's not forget the other great Sith and Jedi before Palpatine...whoah.

OOOOHHHHH!!!!! lightning hands!!! yeah the feds have delt with that before too.

What about force storm? Planet-enveloping force lightning? Can you say "kentucky fried Earth"?

and what was that crap about the movie being made pro rebell???? the empire lost,winners get to write the history books,so the movie was from the rebels view point.

It was from the rebels viewpoint, therefore it was pro-rebel. It glosses over the fact that the republic and jedi were corrupt, greedy, ad destructive, and that the Empire wanted order and peace rather than death and genocide. The rebels brought it upon themselves.

sw has never encountered any thing like the borg,they number in the billions and are unstoppable.if they cant kill you know they will go back in time and destroy you then.

Nothing is unstoppable. The Empire could easily wipe the entirety of the borg off the face of the galaxy.

and not to mention the billions of cardassians and romulons and klingons special forces,they have been at war for melenia,they have gotten good at destroying enemies.

They've never, ever, fought anything on the level of the SW universe. Nothing that they have ever faced has even come close to the firepower that the Empire can bring upon a world.

also,the reason that st stopped using ground based vehicles is because they have transporters, and phasers just destroy vehicles in one hit any way,so the need for ground based vehicles was eliminated.

Phasers might be able to destroy trekverse shit metal, but SW ground vehicles are resistant to nuclear-level shit. Transporters don't mean shit when your ship is ablaze and crashed on a planet, anyway. The ships will be dead before they can "beam down" thier crew or troops, or whatever.

without transporter tech the empire is screwed,one shield goes down they can beam in a photon torpedo and destroy any size ship they want.

Imperial weapons outrange and outyield ST weps by far, and a federation ship would be metallic vapor before it could even pick and ISD up on it's sensors.

also,st shields are mullti phasic,they can change their frequency to counter an emenies attack.

They are still nowhere near powerful enough to withstand giga- and teraton-level turbolasers

against lazers the navigational shields are more then enough,you assume that because the empire has higher power weapons that they are more effecient.

Uh, yeah, since they have higher power weapons, they are more effecient. That's the point of them being more powerful. They can fry your little enterprise faster than it could return fire.

its like a tazer vs a car battery,the car battery can electrocute someone and knock them down,but the tazer can do the exact same thing but using only a tiny 9 volt,or a fraction of the power out put.

Yeah, and the phaser is like the taser- low-powered, watered-down shitbox, total ergonomic clusterfuck, whereas handheld blasters actually look like how a weapon is supposed to look, and are far more powerful and accurate.

your puny empire is toast,and the jedi are jelly,along with a big glass of ass wup for anyone left.

Not even close. Even if the federation could somehow muster enough ship to fight a single Star Destroyer group, what makes you think that they could withstand hundreds of thousands cruisers, battleships, star destroyers, destroyers, a frigates?
Face it, little man, the Empire has more powerful weapons, more powerful ships, better trained and better skilled infantry than the Trekverse, and more of them.
Star Trek ain't got shit.

[Dru DP]

This argument is pointless. Neither universes actually exist (that I know of), and so neither side's claims can be objectively proven. I think Star Trek would win because I like Star Trek slightly more than Star Wars. But I like Star Wars too, so it would be a good match between who I like more.....I mean who would win.

[Hapsburg]

You raise a good point. Neither universes really exist, both sides of the debate are unbudgeable, so the arguement is in the end pointless.
Well, fuck it.

[Prince_James]

mars13:

ok,first off phasers completly destroy molecular bonds in materials,they can vaporize a humanoid in 1 hit.

Bit different than hitting metal.

a lightsaber is just a bar of lazer light.thats it.

Actually, I believe it is closer to a blaster than a laser.

if the lightsaber can penetrate walker armour, then the phaser could very easily vaporize large sections of it with no effort at a distance.

Give us references for the power of phasers against armour-grade metal.

and you claim sw has superior materials?well they sure dont use them for armour on anything.those little walkers got taken out by two logs,thats a fact.and the big walkers got taken out by trip wires.

Trip wires trip can trip anything. What's your point? So you're going to say that wire kills Picard under any circumstance just because I could make him trip in the same manner?

the little walker was crushed like a tin can,it didnt apear to have any more amour then a good size american car.

Again: -Scout- walker. It is built for lightness. Ask the US army what scout humvee armour is like. Basing your argument against SW on the fact that SW has some light-skinned vehicles is akin to saying that the US military can't build A1-Abrams tanks because we have plastic Tonka trucks.

the big walker fell straight over from a wire,and with only two puny guns it wasnt going to be very effective any way.

1. The AT-AT is an armoured troop transport. 2. Those "two puny guns" were heavy blasters.

now,federation ships are made froma tritanium alloy,its like plastic ,steel,titanium,and some other elements we havent discovered yet.
a typical federation ship has between 6 and 18 inches of tritanium.

Great. Let's see if it can withstand gigaton blasts from turbolaser cannons.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/tlc/Power/index.html

Compare this to your federation statistics:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/...eam/Beam1.html

Woops. Seemingly -not-.

also the phased cloak ship that can pass throu solid matter,and mulitpahsic transporters,as well as modulating phase cannons,and hundreds if not thousands of photon torpedoes[they can haul alot more during wartime then a typical compliment].put all this in one ship and the empire is doomed.

The only one of these technologies which could prove interesting is the phase-cloak. The phase-cloak, however, is not known to resist energy, nor tractor beams, et cetera.

one photon torp beamed into a star destroys reacter would blow it apart.

Assuming it would reach there due to the massive electric jamming.

with phase claok they could just fly throu the shields and beam it in.

Shields are energy, not matter. It does not stand to reason that a phase-cloak would be immune to energy obstructions.

well they can be used to make a self replicating mine field,which can be equiped with cloak and placed anywhere and replicate exponentialy,and since sw ships realy on hyperdrive,they cant manuaver at hyperspeed.so they would be screwed against a giant lightyears big mass of mines.

You do realize how long it would take for a "giant lightyears big mass of mines" to be created, yes? It took quite a while for Dukat to get his mine field up.

the federation would take heavy loses at first,until the r+d scientist reinstated about half a dozen closed top secret programs and the federation became the most powerful huminoids in exsistance.

Which take years to develop and you do realize the Empire has billions of worlds upon which to develop just as many nasty things, yes?

it would take a hundred years or more to finanly eradicate the empire,but members of the federation excell at over coming larger enemies.

Not particularly. The Fed has never faced a significantly larger enemy.

the defet gods and super beings that make death star look puny. the destroyed the planet killer alien,it could easily eat a death star.

And the Death Star could blast it into oblivion with one shot.

kv1at3485:

The examples you use only 'dominate' very small fractions of any one quadrant. There knowledge of the remainder of the galaxy is necessarily limited. There is room for other major units, or for a mass multitude of smaller units.

Considering warp drive exploration, we can generally assume not too much remains to be found as regards MAJOR players in the area. There can be a lot of minor ones though, yes.

Unquantifiable claim, but see further below...

Saturating space to hit a large object isn't too difficult.

Assuming that SW sensors will break through ST stealth methods. Not only unquantified, but unwise.

SW has tachyon sensors, and ST cloaks tend to be able to be picked up by tachyon detection methods.

Besides, while SW has hyperspace FTL sensors, whether they have realspace FTL sensors is up for debate.

SW does have extensive sensor capacity in real space, so I doubt a real-space FTL ship would not be found.

Slow weapon speed. If I were to take turbolaser bolts as an example: no more than 1000 km/s. And that is being generous, I think you'll agree.

I don't have the speed of the weapon off hand, but yes, Turbolasers don't shoot at C, proving they cannot be lasers.

Fine. Let us assume that SW does have realspace FTL weapons and sensors. Let us say the speed of said weapons and sensors are on the order of 5*10^10 c. (To put that number in perspective, that's like going across the Milky Way in less than 20 seconds. By comparison, ST's quantum slipstream drive can do the same distance in a few hours at worst.)

Although to note, the quantum slipstream drive is significantly slower than most hyperspace drives:

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Quan...ipstream_drive

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/...opulsion2.html

Now, let us say that the relative lateral velocity between the target (the ST ship you can say) and the firer (the SW weapon platform) is a mere 3.6 c, and that the relative lateral acceleration (basically the target's rate of manoeuvering, after all, flying in a straight line is asking for trouble) is but a paltry 0.1 g's. Oh, and the target has a crosssection with the radius of 2 km.

A rough calculation shows that to hit the target you literally have to be right beside it. If the relative lateral velocity goes down to 3.5 c, then the statistical chance of hitting the target becomes greater than 0 at a range of about a light-day. (To be guarenteed to hit, you still need to be literally right beside the target. Apparently, to get a range where you can be statistically guarenteed to hit the target, the relative velocity has to be somewhere in between 2.48998888890801 and 2.48998888890802 c. I couldn't be bothered to make another section for the spreadsheet.)

Frankly, 4 c is protista-slow even by ST standards...

This is a compelling argument. It would seem the best bet for SW would be to rely on hyperspace weaponary to deal with it.

How do you come to that conclusion?

If all the crew members are in stasis, no one would be in control of the ship. The ship would be on autopilot and clearly the Fed does not have sophisticated enough autopilot to fight its battles for it, otherwise I'm sure the Fed would have autopilot warships.

[mars13]

first rule of the star trek universe,the federation ALWAYS wins.

in sw univers everybody always loses at least once.

and your refusal to admit sw tech is vonulrable to phasers is laughable at best,LOGS HURT SW METALS!!!! sticks and rock do not phase anything st makes,kirk and spock fought giant cave men once and their sticks and rocks just bounced of their shuttle craft,mean while tiny midget bears wipe out half the imperials on the ground with logs ,rocks, and vines.

and do you realy think that out of the 260 elements on the st periodic table,not one can stop a light saber?

and not one shield can stop a sw lazer?that busted mellinium falcon could take a few lazer hits,the enterprise most certainly could hold its own.

and the empire would destroy every last borg?how?after two shots from a turbo laser the borg would be immune,thats how they work,they become immune from attacks,both physical and energy.and there are billion upon billions of borg,there might even be more people in the st universe then in the sw universe, there is well over 1 trillion known [estimate] individual biped orginizimes in the st universe that the federation know of,and they havent even explored the majority of the galaxy!!!!

to say the sw universe would just walk over every and all species large and small in the st universe is ludicris at best.

the q could easily take out the entire empire at a blink if it wanted to,and with that much activity they would probably get involved.not to mention the dozen or so other species that can manipulate time and space at a whim,destroying or giving lif to any and all they choose.

yeah,the federation has never delt with anything like sw?

q flung the enterprise to edge of the universe in two seconds!!!tell me again how ovaltine would counter that?or anything from sw could counter that.

and the federation has timetravel,get it,they can go back in time and wipe out anything they want,when ever they want.

just saying the empire would walk over every single st galaxy species without so much as a return shot is just stupid. your faliure to asses the situation and make an objective reasonable conclusion just proves how weak and pathetic you are,your wishes dont coralate to reality.
you cant just say something and its true and it is so[unless your a q].

and sw isnt even bacteria to them.

[Prince_James]

Arquibus:

Star Wars supporters, remember to use all your ammo. Remember the Hapans, the Republic and New Republic, the Sith, the Hutts, the CSA, the Yuuzhan Vong, the Chiss Ascendancy, the Ssi-Ruuvi Imperium, the Pirate and smugglers groups, the Charon, the Confederacy of Independent Systems, and all the various other worlds and allainces that haven't been covered. Remember the multitudes of alien races, the various other weapon types, the other Force traditions, and the various equipment available to us.

Very true.

Great response to Mars, too.

Cron:

However, everyone is still forgetting Dune. It isn't too hard to believe that the Tleilaxu can geengineer Face Dancers with midichlorians (for force-sensitive spies), or people without them (for invisibility to the force). I think the 'invisiblity to the force' is already covered after the Bene Gesserit cultivated Siona's genes.

Considering midichlorians do not even exist in Dune or ST, and you'll have to wonder how long it would take the BT to be able to incorporate that into their genetic research. Also, if one does not have midichlorians, one is not invisible to the Force, and Dune prescience and Star Wars prescience work differently, with SW having no problem detecting other prescients.

Prince_James: Nice debating on your side, but can you please drop the 'Bene Gesserit can't learn LightSabers' argument? Its just baseless.

Thanks. But again, consider this: The BG use a martial arts based wholely on muscle, nerve, et cetera, training, no? The massless blade makes muscle memory basically impossible to retain. There are reasons that lightsabre like weaponary has not proliferated throughout the SW galaxy even though lightsabres have been around for millennia.

[mars13]

how about a quik anology...

storm trooper vs ewok=ewoks win

ewoks vs red shirts=1-3 dead redshirts ,entire ewok race wiped out

red shorts vs storm troopers=endless dead ensigns but the bridge crew kills the strorm troopers.