Star Wars vs Star Trek

[TW Scott]

Um... no. Becasue agaiin... you're looking at transports with every safety on.

No, I'm using reality. If the transporter does not know what is at point A it can;t affect point A becuase it can't locate any particles to disassemble. The transporter is not some type of beam weapon you can just randomly aim. Nor is it an area effect you can just cause to exist. It needs the sensors to find out what is at point A so it can start the interaction with point A. This has nothing to do with the safeties. Otherwise they could try to make Holodeck stuff real with trial and error. After all you could rerezz the onbject/person infinite times.

Explain the weapons then, smart guy. They exist. Just cuzz you dont see them in a specific episode don't mean they can't be used.

Actually Star trek canon states if it is not in TV or movies it is not canon. So it they aren't in episodes or movies they don't exist.

[alpinedigital]

i only speculate but maybe it used the bulk of the E-Es transporter grid. or the Scimitar's for that matter. anyway there is no way for me to confirm this. i just don'y like the portable transporters. never did mever will.

Then whats this say? You came in here arguing for the Trek side, and now you just argue against it and you "dont like it" means what? I dont give a shit if u like it or not. I dont like ISDs and Death Stars. There, now you warsies cant use them?

fuck OFF with that stupid BULL shit dude.

Im just kidding, ISDs were my fav right behind the Falcon.

[TW Scott]

ion canons have no special properties against shields but they could disrupt some magnetic containments if they penetrate deep enough. they do have to get through the deffences first though (shields and SIF-hull)

I will give you that, but the Ion cannons on starships are dozens of times more powerful than the ones voyager faced Plus being peppered with 60 of them? It would not take long for an Intrepid class to be lifeless floating in space.

[TW Scott]

Then whats this say? You came in here arguing for the Trek side, and now you just argue against it and you "dont like it" means what? I dont give a shit if u like it or not. I dont like ISDs and Death Stars. There, now you warsies cant use them?

fuck OFF with that stupid BULL shit dude.

Im just kidding, ISDs were my fav right behind the Falcon.

Actually he only added that as an after thought. You must admit though that given the canon transporters are pretty large devices. Even the ones in the shuttles are emergency trasporters. Runabouts have four man transporter but even that is very short range compared to a ships transporter. so it makes sens the Personal Transporter is a one shot emergency device or in the case of the one paris used a remote.

[TW Scott]

and yet it was not good enough to jam their comms. i would like to be able to rant more on the subject, but i just find this SW jamming far to ambigous

Actually if you want to spring a trap Jamming comms directly at first is a no-no. it tends to tip off the enemy. Later it's pointless anyways as to guarantee no comms you have to make sure you can't talk either, which would be stupid.

[alpinedigital]

Actually Star trek canon states if it is not in TV or movies it is not canon. So it they aren't in episodes or movies they don't exist.

I mean go look at the list of ST weapons, and explain it.

[TW Scott]

well there were the MACO's and armored security guys in STTMP. so maybe a comparison to special forces is more apropriate. but there are no heavy units that we know of. mechanisation is ST is acheaved by shuttles and transporter drops.

but don't give the US so little credit by comparing them to the Empire ground troops. stormies don't know of concepts like cover and flanking and seem more suited for trench or riflemen tactics. plus they totally fail in guerilla warfare.

Well StormTroopers are not the only type of Imperial troop remeber. they are the shock troops. The heavies you send in in a blitzkreig and then follow up with your specialty troopers. Like the Imperial Guard or the 501st both of which are more akin to special forces. then ther is the Noghri which given canon one would easily take out even Vulcan troops.


Don't forget the Empire has more troops than the Federation has citizens. Hell the average ISD carries enough troops to go one on one with the crew and family of 9 Galaxy Class cruisers.

The incompetence we saw in ANH and ROTJ is easily explained. In ANH they were ordered to put on a show but still let the Falcon go. It takes a very dedicated trooper to miss intentionally while some kidd is killing your friends. In ROTJ the troops were expecting a easy victory. The had no idea they were suddenly face to face with 1500 warrior natives. Ewoks maybe small and furry, but they have managed to keep themselves on the winning side of a constant war with creatures that can go toe to toe with a wookie and have invented steel.

[TW Scott]

I mean go look at the list of ST weapons, and explain it.

ST weapons of the federation

• Concealed Handphaser-A concealer phaser with an minimal profile an my guess limited power supply.
• Type I Hand Phaser- A standard side arm
• Type II Hand phaser- Improved Sidearm
• Phaser Rifle- In a variety of shapes, early ones appared to be an elongated hand haser with pistol grip and foregrip, Laser phaser rifles included sights and a more ergonomic layout
• Phaser Cannon Light vehicle weapon slightly more powerful than the rifles
• Launcher a shoulder launcher with a explosive projectile about the same deadliness as a 20thC HE grenade
• Ka-Bar combat knife just like the modern one

SW infantry Weapons of the Empire

• Hand Blaster: Comes in man froms from Princess Leias personal defense blaster to Han's heavy blaster pistol.
• E-II Blaster Rifle: The short carbine sized blaster rifle used by Stormtroopers.
• Blastech Light Repeating Blaster: The large machinegun sized blaster seen carried by some stormtroopers.
• E-Web Heavy Repeating Blaster: Seen in ESB this tripod mounted blaster is made for heavy combat and taking out power armored troops and light vehicles.
• Frag launcher: This launcher launches concusion missles able to take out medium vehicles and masses of troops. Rarely use inside starships for fear of damaging equipment.
• Frag Grenades
• Icendiary Grenades
• Chemical Grenades
• Sonic Grenades
• Thermal Detonator upto 4 kilotons
• Flame Thrower: hand and rifle
• Vibroblades: Knives and swords vibrating at thousands ofhertz able to cut through anything
• Stun Batons
• Nueral Stun batons

[Kittamaru]

Actually their speed and maneuverbity is ONLY challenged by A-Wings and even then A-Wings lose to the standard TIE and are seriously out classed by the Interceptor TIE and then there is Defender TIE and TIE BOmbers (which can also be used as torpedo platforms)


The advantage of the TIE is their cheap, mass produced and they come in LARGE numbers. Plus they have decent firepower. One TIE is a joke, four TIEs is a damn tough fight, a Dozen is a nightmare and a Squadron of 72 is not to be laughed at. And you get 72 of those boys for the price of 12 X-wings.

Now four TIE could easily take a shuttle, no problem and at worst lose a single fighter. Since a ground base is not like to have more than 12 shuttles ready at any one time...Your looking at 6 to one odds. Shuttles are not meant for dogfight, while the TIE is. Do the math.

And even 3 squadrens of TIE's vs a Federation Starship is a slaughter, as the phaser emitters pulse rapidly to obliterate entire squadrens at once...

[Kittamaru]

I will give you that, but the Ion cannons on starships are dozens of times more powerful than the ones voyager faced Plus being peppered with 60 of them? It would not take long for an Intrepid class to be lifeless floating in space.

Proof of this? Please provide proof of the output of an ion cannon compared to a natural ion storm.

[Kittamaru]

ST weapons of the federation

• Concealed Handphaser-A concealer phaser with an minimal profile an my guess limited power supply.
• Type I Hand Phaser- A standard side arm
• Type II Hand phaser- Improved Sidearm
• Phaser Rifle- In a variety of shapes, early ones appared to be an elongated hand haser with pistol grip and foregrip, Laser phaser rifles included sights and a more ergonomic layout
• Phaser Cannon Light vehicle weapon slightly more powerful than the rifles
• Launcher a shoulder launcher with a explosive projectile about the same deadliness as a 20thC HE grenade
• Ka-Bar combat knife just like the modern one

SW infantry Weapons of the Empire

• Hand Blaster: Comes in man froms from Princess Leias personal defense blaster to Han's heavy blaster pistol.
• E-II Blaster Rifle: The short carbine sized blaster rifle used by Stormtroopers.
• Blastech Light Repeating Blaster: The large machinegun sized blaster seen carried by some stormtroopers.
• E-Web Heavy Repeating Blaster: Seen in ESB this tripod mounted blaster is made for heavy combat and taking out power armored troops and light vehicles.
• Frag launcher: This launcher launches concusion missles able to take out medium vehicles and masses of troops. Rarely use inside starships for fear of damaging equipment.
• Frag Grenades
• Icendiary Grenades
• Chemical Grenades
• Sonic Grenades
• Thermal Detonator upto 4 kilotons
• Flame Thrower: hand and rifle
• Vibroblades: Knives and swords vibrating at thousands ofhertz able to cut through anything
• Stun Batons
• Nueral Stun batons

I like how you simplify Treks weapons as much as possible and overamp yours...

Remember, phasers can do everything from a mild stun of a single life form to the total and utter sub-atomic disassembly of huge quantities of shielded material... thus, they dont' NEED a variety of weapons because their standard weapon is more than potent enough

[alpinedigital]

ST weapons of the federation.... bla bla bla (I'm a fucking idiot)

Nice try, but I didnt ask for the list. I just asked for the explanation. and explain how SW has flame throwers and Trek does not. WHEN EARTH ALREADY ACTUALLY HAS THEM!! Speaking of which, why wouldnt Trek get all current available earth weapons?

[Omega133]

How did I not see this was another mislead die-hard SW fan? Maybe the reason they don't go all battle mech on ground assault vehicles is because ground assaults aren't really very threatening.

True ground assaults may not be threatening...till they reach Earth.

[Kittamaru]

True ground assaults may not be threatening...till they reach Earth.

Which will never happen, and thus is not a threat.

[Omega133]

Which will never happen, and thus is not a threat.

Proof?

[alpinedigital]

...so it makes sens the Personal Transporter is a one shot emergency device or in the case of the one paris used a remote.

Actually I called and asked... he says in that particular timeline, they made a way for transporters to be really small.

[Kittamaru]

Proof?

The fact that EVERY number that has been crunched proved that even your HTL's will be almost 100% deflected by Trek shields... the only part of your weapons that will have any effect is the minuscule kinetic portion of the blast... the reason for this is because trek shields operate via gravimetric fields, which, much like a black hole, would cause almost all of the bolts energy to harmlessly deflect into space.

[TW Scott]

Nice try, but I didnt ask for the list. I just asked for the explanation. and explain how SW has flame throwers and Trek does not. WHEN EARTH ALREADY ACTUALLY HAS THEM!! Speaking of which, why wouldnt Trek get all current available earth weapons?

Never seen in an Episode, never approved by Roddenberry, thus don;t have them.

Oh yeah, they could have all modern earth weapons, would be funny as hell becuase they have NO training with them. They do more damage to themselves than they would to anythng else.

[TW Scott]

And even 3 squadrens of TIE's vs a Federation Starship is a slaughter, as the phaser emitters pulse rapidly to obliterate entire squadrens at once...

I wasn;t sending them against a Starship, I am sending them against shuttles, which are notorius for missing and also have limited firepower.

Strike Cruisers on the other hand are larger than the definat, heavily shielded and armored and armed with Turbolasers, Ion cannons, Tractor beams and Torpedoes or missiles. 3 against an Intrepid class would be more than sufficient to render it inoperable.

[TW Scott]

Proof of this? Please provide proof of the output of an ion cannon compared to a natural ion storm.

Proof of output. Able to defeat shields of ISD which canonically can survive several hits from a ~900,000,000,000,000,000 joule weapon. Output of uss Enterprises warp core is cannicall ~50,000,000,000,000,000,000 so the weapon is capable of more that 180 times the power oout put one of the best Warp cores in the Federation. Ergo they must be more power and thus it must be more devastating than even a powerful ionstorm.