Star Wars vs Star Trek

**fedr808** · 05-19-09, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by Kittamaru

Think about it fedr... if your ship is almost 10km long... and they can "accurately" fire on a target ONLY 500km away... that's a problem...

Think about the ratio kitt,

1 square meter of accuracy per 500 km.

If a trek ship is what 700 meters long?

700 times 500 equals 375,000 km.

Thats the point im trying to make, and that is meters squared, if you werent impressed by this number i could always cube it considering that these are three dimensional ships.

**Enterprise-D** · 05-19-09, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by fedr808

when you can hit with a weapon large enough to rip holes through the ground and devestate a planet in minutes. and still hit a target reliably a square foot. Yah that is something to be boastful of.

Lol naw...the "shortest" long range of a photon torpedo is 300K km. Class 6 torpedoes have a range of 8 million km (referenced in VOY). And enough photorps will obliterate a planetary surface (referenced in DS9).

**fedr808** · 05-19-09, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by Enterprise-D

Lol naw...the "shortest" long range of a photon torpedo is 300K km. Class 6 torpedoes have a range of 8 million km (referenced in VOY). And enough photorps will obliterate a planetary surface (referenced in DS9).

"Enough"

If you shoot enough of anything you can devestate a planets surface.

**150dpi** · 05-19-09, 11:10 AM

Star Trek has Seven of Nine.

End of discussion.

**Enterprise-D** · 05-19-09, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by fedr808

"Enough"

If you shoot enough of anything you can devestate a planets surface.

1. I only said the word "enough" because it's not "one" and I did not have the reference handy as to how many it might be. However, it's not "a million". It'd probably take 20 or 30 well-placed high-yield photorps. Galaxy complement: 250.

2. There are some objects that, if shot from orbit, will not even reach a planet's surface.

**Kittamaru** · 05-19-09, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by fedr808

Think about the ratio kitt,

1 square meter of accuracy per 500 km.

If a trek ship is what 700 meters long?

700 times 500 equals 375,000 km.

Thats the point im trying to make, and that is meters squared, if you werent impressed by this number i could always cube it considering that these are three dimensional ships.

Doesn't matter... how big is space... you have a 700 meter ship maneuvering in the INFINITE VASTNESS of space, able to engage your HUGE ships at over 8 MILLION K/M away...

You don't stand a snowballs chance in hell of hitting it.

**fedr808** · 05-19-09, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Kittamaru

Doesn't matter... how big is space... you have a 700 meter ship maneuvering in the INFINITE VASTNESS of space, able to engage your HUGE ships at over 8 MILLION K/M away...

You don't stand a snowballs chance in hell of hitting it.

well for one i doub your standard sensors are that good and two, your torps nor ships cant go into and out of our warp. We dont warp into subspace we warp into a different dimension entirely.

So the whole 8 million km is kinda useless cause you cant shoot them when we are in warp.

**kustomrides** · 05-20-09, 01:02 AM

[QUOTE=fedr808;2254278][QUOTE=150dpi;2254273]

Originally Posted by TW Scott

First of all you have to splice technology with the 8472 biomatter, not likely given theri paranoia. Secondly like before SW has no interest in fludic space thus, Speciaes 8472 would see the incursion of the Empire against the Borg and Federation as a blessing.

150

there are several unspoken rules we have made to keep this debate alive.

One is that you CANNOT use non standard tech, ie, quantom slipstream, sure its being tested but at the current second it does not exist so it is not fair to say that the feds have it because it is not finished yet so it wont count. And ablative armor is not allowed outside of the defiant which actually uses it standard

You cant use ablative armor on 8472 especially because there is no canon referance

So no assumptions just because they arent fair

Also, no Q, as dumb as this sound, the fact is that Q is omnipotant so we know it would beat the snot out of SW. So it really aint fair and it would be a thread killer. So really, no Q please.

The problem here is that the SW advocates are cherry picking which parts of the ST universe they must remove in order to "win."

Fine. Take out the spooky deities and entities and whatnot. But make it a two-way street. That means SW loses "The Force." Which is just as much as deus ex machina as is "Q".

And I suppose you want to remove ST's abilities to travel back in time? Of course you do. You haven't a Wombat's chance under Luke's eye if ST can travel back in time and prevent the Emperor's parents from doing the nasty in the first place.

Oh, and you want there to be tension between Species 8472 and the Borg, yet allow the Jedi and the Sith to share warm showers together?

How convenient.

Are there any other conditions you wish to place on the scenario in order to support your conclusion that the SW universe would win against the ST universe? Perhaps you should just tick off the things that the Star Trek Universe simply must, in the name of keeing this thread alive, do without. Tribbles, Horta, Harry Mudd, Romulan Ale, Crystaline Entity, Doomsday Machine, transporters ... oh my, we simply can't have THOSE things.

Really.

**Kittamaru** · 05-20-09, 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by fedr808

well for one i doub your standard sensors are that good and two, your torps nor ships cant go into and out of our warp. We dont warp into subspace we warp into a different dimension entirely.

So the whole 8 million km is kinda useless cause you cant shoot them when we are in warp.

Yet how long does it take your ships to enter into Warp... and if I'm not mistaken every warp jump you take is a grave risk to the ship and the psykers on board.

Not to mention the simple fact that we can fire a torpedo into the warp void and cause god knows what kind of uncalcuable chaos

**antaran_1979** · 05-20-09, 04:40 AM

ex astris scientia has a good article on the battle of wolf359 and the ships that participated. this will give a good account on the starfleet composition in the early TNG era.

**Challenger78** · 05-20-09, 05:07 AM

I wonder if the thread can go 24 hours without a post.
10.00 GMT..

**fedr808** · 05-20-09, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by Kittamaru

Yet how long does it take your ships to enter into Warp... and if I'm not mistaken every warp jump you take is a grave risk to the ship and the psykers on board.

Not to mention the simple fact that we can fire a torpedo into the warp void and cause god knows what kind of uncalcuable chaos

Well a, there is a risk that the chaos gods might succeed in capturing our ships. But they aren't idiots, they wont be trying to capture any of our ships because we now share a common enemy.

So no more risk.

Im sorry but what would a torpedo do in the warp?

p.s. chaos is our middle name.

**Kittamaru** · 05-20-09, 09:11 AM

What would a torpedo do in the warp.... I unno

I know in one of the WH40K books I read, the warp is supposed to be a "dangerous, volatile place, and entry there without a psykers protection means certain death" or something like that... I figure going around blowing shit up in there might piss something off

**150dpi** · 05-20-09, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by kustomrides

The problem here is that the SW advocates are cherry picking which parts of the ST universe they must remove in order to "win."

Fine. Take out the spooky deities and entities and whatnot. But make it a two-way street. That means SW loses "The Force." Which is just as much as deus ex machina as is "Q".

And I suppose you want to remove ST's abilities to travel back in time? Of course you do. You haven't a Wombat's chance under Luke's eye if ST can travel back in time and prevent the Emperor's parents from doing the nasty in the first place.

Oh, and you want there to be tension between Species 8472 and the Borg, yet allow the Jedi and the Sith to share warm showers together?

How convenient.

Are there any other conditions you wish to place on the scenario in order to support your conclusion that the SW universe would win against the ST universe? Perhaps you should just tick off the things that the Star Trek Universe simply must, in the name of keeing this thread alive, do without. Tribbles, Horta, Harry Mudd, Romulan Ale, Crystaline Entity, Doomsday Machine, transporters ... oh my, we simply can't have THOSE things.

Really.

+11111111

of course, they would argue that their Turbo Lasers can destroy Q with 10000000000000 x 10000000 petawatts of power...

**Challenger78** · 05-20-09, 10:04 AM

Nope.
Not even 3 hours.
Frigging OCD people..

**Enterprise-D** · 05-20-09, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by fedr808

Im sorry but what would a torpedo do in the warp?

Explode like anywhere else?

Originally Posted by Challenger78

Nope.
Not even 3 hours.
Frigging OCD people..

LOL I think there were a couple times where the thread seemed to fizzle out, but there seems to be new life in it nowadays somehow...probably because the limit of any one thread is in reachable distance.

**fedr808** · 05-20-09, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Enterprise-D

Explode like anywhere else?

LOL I think there were a couple times where the thread seemed to fizzle out, but there seems to be new life in it nowadays somehow...probably because the limit of any one thread is in reachable distance.

explode? and than what? Your shooting at chaos gods and demons.

If the torpedo goes off at all. Time can be manipulated in the warp. We'll just set it in a time bubble where time barely moves, so it'll blow in a few billion years.

Or theyll just let it go off. Not like it'll do any damage.

Thats like saying that if you blew up a torpedo in open space that it would destroy the universe. Does not work that way.

**fedr808** · 05-20-09, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Kittamaru

What would a torpedo do in the warp.... I unno

I know in one of the WH40K books I read, the warp is supposed to be a "dangerous, volatile place, and entry there without a psykers protection means certain death" or something like that... I figure going around blowing shit up in there might piss something off

Something being the gods of chaos, they make the Q piss their pants.

**Enterprise-D** · 05-20-09, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by fedr808

explode? and than what?...

Thats like saying that if you blew up a torpedo in open space that it would destroy the universe. Does not work that way.

Didn't say it would affect anything...a torpedo is a mindless machine, it will simply explode. It does not care about what dimension it might be in.

Originally Posted by fedr808

Something being the gods of chaos, they make the Q piss their pants.

The Q are immortal and omnipotent. They have no reason to fear any other godlike beings. Further, there's no precedent to show that anything would happen in a battle between the Q Continuum and Chaos gods other than a complete stalemate. Omnipotence is omnipotence.

Unless of course Chaos gods can die by mortal hands...

**fedr808** · 05-20-09, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Enterprise-D

Didn't say it would affect anything...a torpedo is a mindless machine, it will simply explode. It does not care about what dimension it might be in.

The Q are immortal and omnipotent. They have no reason to fear any other godlike beings. Further, there's no precedent to show that anything would happen in a battle between the Q Continuum and Chaos gods other than a complete stalemate. Omnipotence is omnipotence.

Unless of course Chaos gods can die by mortal hands...

That wasnt my point, the fact is that detonating a torpedo in random chaos voids will do about as much damage as detonating a torpedo in open space, nothing will happen.

The Q have control over their realm, that being the universe. The chaos warp is just a different realm (and im using realm just in place of dimension, universe, call it what you will). The Q have no power in the Warp and corrupted space. but the chaos gods have power over the universe.