01-02-09, 05:10 AM #13841
01-02-09, 08:40 AM #13842
Was reading thru the posts I missed while on Christmas vacation. Merry 2009 btw!!
A main reason would be that a major starbase function is to defend the planet it may be in orbit of...in lieu of or while awaiting a fleet of starships. Starfleet arms orbiting stations fully (DS9 was armed with 5000 Federation torpedos in the war).
What about the reconfiguration of communications...communication relays would need to be constantly updating themselves...and while each change may be nanoseconds, imagine the comms traffic generated by thousands of relays updating every nanosecond for each station that is moving. Of course I am thinking of them still as stations with administrative/tactical/medical functions, not merely massive weapons juggernauts.
ST ships do not require station heavy weapons in fleet deployment because they are already on board, just not as plentiful in terms of physical number of firing bores/emitters.
In the event relocation is necessary, a station can be tractored, or simply dismantled and rebuilt. Why waste fuel and maintenance costs making a station capable of motion under its own power, when it is hardly ever used?
If I've missed anything jumping in late, I do apologize...
01-02-09, 02:17 PM #13843
you're all to much of a starbase and not a ship; i only mentioned DS9 because of his sheer firepower and transport capability's. Hellblade mentioned one of the main tasks. It could be use as a planetary assault or defence platform. A ship that large doesn't necesary have to be in the battle itself. but it can be for example used as a co-ordination ship. the tactical advantages are immense for such a ship.
ok te transport can easily be done by a larger amount of smaller ships but then the co-ordination is so immense and frankly pretty dangerous.
I referred to the ssd for his length. If you look at DS9 who can easely defend hisself against 200+ klingon warbirds image what a full size battleship can do.
I mean u have room for spare warpcores who can kick in when the primary core is disabled like in Nemesis. Image when a ship that size can cloak like the scimitar.
U jump wright in the middle of hostile worlds and unleach enormous firepower. cripeling there huge amount of there fleet before they know what hit them and leave in a few seconds.
try warping a few hunderd Galaxy's.
01-02-09, 04:11 PM #13844
01-02-09, 04:13 PM #13845
01-02-09, 04:20 PM #13846
The blue pulses stopped, cutting power to the warp engines in the nacelles...
The red pulses slowed (in correlation to the SOUND EFFECTS) and, as the view shifts to outside the ship, eventually slow to a stop. Signifying the ceasation of M/AM reaction within the ship...
01-02-09, 04:23 PM #13847
I appologize, the volume is low (crank your speakers) but you can see the upper portion of the core (the dilithium matrix area) go dead and shortly thereafter the pulsing sounds of the M/AM reactor cease as well...
01-02-09, 05:43 PM #13848
01-03-09, 02:16 AM #13849
Also a Y-wing is not a heavy fighter it is the predesscor to the X-wing as a basic surperiority fight that doubles as a bumber becuase of the extra gunners chair.
As fo the B-wing, a VSD has one third the armamament of a ISD and less that one quarter the shields. It was almos sesigned as an attack vessel depending on fighters for point defense. Of course 36 B wings can take it out, it's what they are designed for.
2.but how many standard ships can be built for the price of one SSD? or DS? and more ships can allway cover more ground. as i said it is a mater of doctrine. and the Empire chose a doctrine of terror, rather then effective power deployment. obviously this proved fatal in the long run. they should have sticked with the mobile army and navy of the republic.
3.no i expect for thousands of small craft to deliver my ground troops to the initial landing sites. after these forces establish enough safe ground, disembarking and asembling of heavier eqipement can begin.
4.truth be told, torpedoes in ST show variance in speed as much as they show variance in yield. some are slower then shuttles some are as fast as 32 frames per second, which is faster then the slugish X-wings which seam even more acceleration capable then thier proton torpedoes.
btw, if a 30m freighters and 6m fighters can jamm something the size of ISDs SSDs and DSs, i would not count much on SW ECM abilities.
Well, perhaps it is the other way around. After all R2-D2 shows better sensor abilities than a tricorder. A fighter would have sensors beyond the normal shuttle craft and be designed to baffle targeting electronics as a safwety measure. Ths why all guns in SW seem to be manned. You
As for torpedoes i will grant sometimes they seem to move quicker, unforunately it is ALWAYS in a smaller battle.
5.if they are not manual, then they do require some sensor lock. tracking and locking phased out objects (if they even have the ability do descern them as such) might be tricky.
6.we have no idea how many torps were brought back or how many essential part to manufacture them. nor do we know if SF is still capable or willing of replacating them. what we do know is they do exist and what they are capable of.
01-03-09, 02:19 AM #13850
in my opinion the reason for the fedaration not having a enormous kickass vessel is not that they couldn't build one like scott claims but just plain en simple that the federation is exploring space ''we come in peace" rather than "U will service us" like the Borg.
that's while a normal cube is so big compared to a Galaxy.
And ofcourse you can use the battleship for scare tactics aswell. I the dominion know the feds have this kickass vessel they would think twice before declaring war on the feds. but you have the risk of the vessel being a magnet for espionage and sabotage.
@attaran; of course it is a tricky choose. it allways is. but think of what a simpel hit and run can accomplice. but you allways have to be aware that it could be a trap they build for the vessel. but then again u would have enough firepower to resist a full fleet.
but one thing i'm not sure of is if you could keep such a large ship unnoticed in warp for the enemy's scanners.
01-03-09, 06:14 AM #13851
2.well Y-wing it does carry more torpedoes/missiles and heavier shielding then the X-wing + some ion canons, so it is in essence "heavier".
4. i was refering to the Republic's army creared during the Clone Wars, and yess even after as oposed to the doctrine used at the end of the Palpatine's rule (DSs and SSDs)
5.1 of those smaller craft is more vulnerable, thousands are not. 1 big ship is resistant yes, but allo and easy and more importantly the target of choice. something that you can easily focus on. and if you lose it, there goes your invasion force, plus a huge amount of crew, resources and time to build it. you lose 3/4 of your initial wave of dropships and the game is still on. hack imagine what would happen if those 20-50000 marines use exo-suits and attempt orbital skydiving. 50000 small target, droping in from blue skies. smaller then anything your defences are designed to cope with. ad dropships and you wreak havoc.
6.RD2 is a great utility droid, but he never demonstrated any exeptional sensor abilty.
7. i tryed finding some common ocurance that will brought light to the torpedo speed. so far, no success.
8.it would be interesting to test the "legendary" imperial acuracy on torpedoes
9.and seaing how in trek the key component is often the size of a pocket knife there is no telling how many she brought. i mean, it did not apear they were worried about running out of ammo. and hell, they even installed that armour thingy. i don't supose she brought that in her shuttle did she?
01-03-09, 06:16 AM #13852
01-03-09, 08:55 AM #13853
01-03-09, 09:01 AM #13854
Here's the point - when it comes to fielding fleets, Star Wars is all about Quantity over Quality... Star Trek is about Quality over Quantity...
Star Wars: Capital Ships: Huge ships, easy to hit, slow, main weapons batteries are only useful against similar sized vessels. Shields can be flown under and taken out.
Star Trek: Capital Ships: Mid Sized, agile, harder to hit ships. Main weapons batteries are just as effective against Fighters as they are Dreadnaughts. Shields are two fold - bubble shield or form fitting, but have no gaps to fly thru. Shield systems are multi-redundant.
Star Wars: Fighter craft are quick, agile, but not terribly powerful in the grand scheme of things. One or two solid hits takes them out of the fight.
Star Trek: Fighter craft are VERY small, very quick, and fire weapons nearly on-par with capital ships thanks to advancements in miniaturization technology. Shield systems are weaker than cap ships, but are able to withstand decent punishment. Very fast.
Star Wars: Sub Capitals: Seemingly pointless... not able to put out enough damage to affect capital ships, not able to track fighters...
Star Trek: Sub Capitals: (combat shuttles, Delta Flyer, Venture class starships, Runabouts): Quick, hit-n-run vessels able to take a considerable beating and still perform well. Most are fit with full size torpedo systems, and slightly smaller class phaser arrays. Fit with full warp cores, these can put out as much power for their size as a capital ship.
01-04-09, 01:05 PM #13855
the main reason for feds not having the need is because they never came across a foo that had enormous amounts of vessels. accept the borg.
Now let us make a little situation. The feds detect a enormous fleet of cubes. i mean like 100 000 cubes ready to invade earth. the enterprise can carry let us say 300 transpheric torps. needing 2 hits to take out a cube. thats 150 cubes. so you need at least 300 ships the enterprise's size to launch a hit n run attack. so you have to co-ordanate 300 ships to warp at the same time focus on a target launch torps and get the hell out. so how long takes it for the enterprise to fire all torps? that's the amount of time you need to be in hostile space. assuming none of the ships target the same cubes wasting all those precious torps.
Now think about what a 10km long battleship can do. only one ship has to warp into hostile space. fire-ing every phaser and hundreds of torps in 1 or 2 seconds.
offcourse you will say that 300 soverings are harder to hit then 1 big massive ship. but because you have so much room, you could get the biggest most powerfull warpcores avalable and then a few lol. you could use a few cores to power enormous amount of phasers. use a few cores for shielding and if necessary u can add spares that kick in when when others are overloading.
and as last resort you can use the main cores to flee ejecting all other cores detonating them as you warp out. that would make a bang
and offcourse you can use all the best armour avalable.
conclusion this ship would be able to to hit and run a fleet of 100 000 borgcubes in a few minutes time.
Image what other worlds will say when you have vessel that can destroy a whole fleet of borgcubes. none would dare to stand in the way of the federation. offcourse you will have to be keeping a close eye on every known world so no-one builds them one of there own.
01-04-09, 02:55 PM #13856
If 100,000 cubes were incoming to earth... the Future Federation would intervene because there's NO chance for the Present Feds. It wouldn't matter if you launched 1 photon, 100, or 1,000,000 photons... once the Borg have adapted, that's pretty much it.
And the problem with a ship that size (and something that's not addressed at ALL in Star Wars), is that the larger the ship, the more Inertia comes into play.
Say you have a ship 700 meters long (Ent-E) and a ship 7,000 meters long (SSD). The Ent-E will ALWAYS be able to turn faster than the SSD for two simple reasons:
1) THe Ent-E has less apparent mass (weight) to turn. The further from the axis or rotation the ships ends are, the more apparent mass (weight) it will be trying to turn. It's like a giant lever.
2) The Ent-E, having less apparent mass, will have less stress on the hull at higher rotational velocities, meaning it can rotate faster without breaking apart.
Also, again, a ship that big is a one-shot wonder. Once it defeats the first thousand cubes, the other 99,000 will spread out among multiple systems. That ship can't be in a hundred places at once, can it
Also, recall that the larger the object you are trying to shield, the more power it takes to shield it at the same strength intensity. While, yes, a super-massive "worldship" could use hundreds of warp cores, it could never generate enough power to keep it's shields at the same level of a smaller ship with a smaller shield. In theory, EM Shielding would work along the same principal as Energy and Motion - a conservative estimate would be for ever size, x, the mass increases, the power to shield it, y, increases by a x^3.
01-04-09, 04:46 PM #13857
Damn you guys have been busy while I was on vacation. So many many great points, but although the pole above don't show it I am thinking that Star Trek has the upper hand. The one ship that has not been mentioned is the Drone Warbirds from Enterprise. Able to match the appearance and energy output of any ship
And one more thing you all have inspired me to research the different classes of Star Trek ships. Can someone confirm for me if there is infact a ship named the boseman? I use the names for the computers on my network. thanks
01-04-09, 05:02 PM #13858
Oh and Kitt the Hurcules reference had to do with that terrible show The Legendary Journeys of Hurcules or something like that where Kevin Sorbo was Hurcules. Worst Show Ever. Although I originally had a problem with Scott Bakula as Captain Archer, but I thought he filled the roll quite well after I got past his previous rolls in Quantum Leap and Necessary Roughness. Yes I know I seem to be the only one on this planet that liked Enterprise. Sorry.
01-04-09, 06:11 PM #13859
I didn't mind the show itself... just... it's not Star Trek because it kills the TOS timeline completely 0o'
01-04-09, 07:16 PM #13860
By Fettman in forum SciFi & FantasyLast Post: 10-18-11, 02:02 PMReplies: 33
By USS Athens in forum SciFi & FantasyLast Post: 03-16-10, 04:47 PMReplies: 291
By superstring01 in forum SciFi & FantasyLast Post: 03-11-10, 01:57 PMReplies: 60
By Orleander in forum SciFi & FantasyLast Post: 07-11-09, 08:33 PMReplies: 27
By Asguard in forum Computer Science & CultureLast Post: 09-13-08, 02:15 AMReplies: 0