Star Wars vs Star Trek

[TW Scott]

Perhaps because two different people can agree on the same thing?

Its hardly worth the effort to disprove. And I don't go around quoting Darkstar, you need to back up your own evidence, not just take what someone else says and claim it to be true. Fact is that Wong is a very biased person who also seems to think that Q does all of his tricks by tech and not by his own supernatural powers.

the why could his powers be stripped from him yet he still maintains his IQ. It makes much more sense for the Q power to be technology. After all you don't seee him do a single supernatural thing like charming Janeway into liking him.

Makes no sense to do that. And furthermore, when I first heard about these debates, these where the two first sites I found, and at the time, most of Darkstar's links worked, and then later, they went to porn sites which gave me a virus.

Fact is, its not beyond the average skills of a hacker to screw around with links, and given that we know they already hacked to find is identity, I hardly trust that they didn't. In any case, its best not to use either side for support in this matter, since both sides are biased and likely stuffing their numbers.

Well you have to look at the motives. Wong has nothing to gain by doing that and Darkstar can cry foul and blame Wong.

No you haven't. And fact is you don't need around 500 megatons to vaporise small astroids made of rock, steel, ice, or whatever those astroids where made of.

Excuse me but I have posted proof, go back through the history of this thread. After you find it I dare you to try to disprove it. When you can't i will await my apology

[Kittamaru]

LOL! Nothing to gain? Of course he does! It was an ATTEMPT (and a pathetic one at that) to discredit Darkstar!

No, you haven't posted proof. I have disproved it by pulling out even ONE number.

Why doesn't he "make" janeway like him? because he doesnt' WANT to. Even Q has morals. What good is it forcing someone to love you? It wouldn't be love then would it... christ, is it that hard to understand?

[Hellblade8]

the why could his powers be stripped from him yet he still maintains his IQ. It makes much more sense for the Q power to be technology. After all you don't seee him do a single supernatural thing like charming Janeway into liking him.

...Perhaps because his supernatural powers are one thing, and his IQ is another?

And really, are you kidding me? This is the worst idea I've ever heard. Q has shown to hurl a ship across space, stand on the outside of a ship while its moving at warp, hide in a warp core, send said warp core to near destruction, and to top it all off, Amanda, who does not have a high IQ, and didn't know of her origions was ablet to use her powers to some extant. Its very clear by the way their presented that the Q have supernatural powers.

And as for why Q doesn't force Janway into liking him, perhaps because it would be akin to rape and thus wrong and Q didn't want to do such a horrible immoral thing?

Well you have to look at the motives. Wong has nothing to gain by doing that and Darkstar can cry foul and blame Wong.

Why would Darkstar do that? You see, by doing that, people won't visit his site because it puts him into a bad area, making his links questionable, and furthermore, makes it hard to follow what he's saying when you can't just go directly to what he's argueing against. And when it comes down to word for word, Wong has shown to use underhanded tactics like that, while Darkstar has never gone that far.

Excuse me but I have posted proof, go back through the history of this thread. After you find it I dare you to try to disprove it. When you can't i will await my apology

Yeah, because I'm going to search over 200 pages for an obscure calculation that is probably been disproven already. Strange as this may sound, but I actually have a social life that doesn't revolve around sci-fi.

[TW Scott]

...Perhaps because his supernatural powers are one thing, and his IQ is another?

But why would a supernatual being need such an IQ. It just wouldn;t develop normally as there would be nothing to push them to learn.

And really, are you kidding me? This is the worst idea I've ever heard. Q has shown to hurl a ship across space, stand on the outside of a ship while its moving at warp, hide in a warp core, send said warp core to near destruction, and to top it all off, Amanda, who does not have a high IQ, and didn't know of her origions was ablet to use her powers to some extant. Its very clear by the way their presented that the Q have supernatural powers.

But show me one of those powers that could not be done with a sufficently advanced technology.

And as for why Q doesn't force Janway into liking him, perhaps because it would be akin to rape and thus wrong and Q didn't want to do such a horrible immoral thing?

Really? A being that has shown the smae regard for humans that we show ants. Not very likely as the Q do not see humansd as truly free willed.

Why would Darkstar do that? You see, by doing that, people won't visit his site because it puts him into a bad area, making his links questionable, and furthermore, makes it hard to follow what he's saying when you can't just go directly to what he's argueing against. And when it comes down to word for word, Wong has shown to use underhanded tactics like that, while Darkstar has never gone that far.

Wong has never used an underhanded tactic like that. Yes he did post his real name and adress on the internet, butthat info was openly available in Datrkstar's profile and yellowpages, that is not hacking by any stretch of the term. As for who changed the links top money is on Darkstar becuase then he could whine like he always has, second is the pornsites in question.

Yeah, because I'm going to search over 200 pages for an obscure calculation that is probably been disproven already. Strange as this may sound, but I actually have a social life that doesn't revolve around sci-fi.

Well just admit you know you can't becuase NO ONE has. Everytime I post it all I receive are ad hominem attacks

[Hellblade8]

But why would a supernatual being need such an IQ. It just wouldn;t develop normally as there would be nothing to push them to learn.

Because they don't want retards running around with power that can kill entire races? Jsut because someone is smart, it doesn't mean that they can't have supernatural powers.

But show me one of those powers that could not be done with a sufficently advanced technology.

Hardly the point. I could say that Data just makes something happen by the will of his mind because all he does is press the same buttons over and over. And at least that bullshit has some more evidence to it. Again, there is no evidence or indication that the Q use tech for their power, double so given that Q seemed to have a hard time adjusting to being human after losing his powers. That and no tech in Star Trek has ever shown to do stuff on the level that Q has done.

Really? A being that has shown the smae regard for humans that we show ants. Not very likely as the Q do not see humansd as truly free willed.

The Q have rules, which they follow more or less. Q, someone who finds human mating disgusting to begin with isn't going to force someone to do it with him. And he could have forced her if he wanted, since Amanda, a young child and amature to Q powers was able to force Commander Riker to fall in lover with her in True Q.

Wong has never used an underhanded tactic like that. Yes he did post his real name and adress on the internet, butthat info was openly available in Datrkstar's profile and yellowpages, that is not hacking by any stretch of the term. As for who changed the links top money is on Darkstar becuase then he could whine like he always has, second is the pornsites in question.

Yeah, because nothing can be wrong with posting such information on the internet...

Really, give me a break. What he did was wrong. And he has a track record of doing wrong stuff while Darkstar has a clean slate in that paticular area.

Well just admit you know you can't becuase NO ONE has. Everytime I post it all I receive are ad hominem attacks

Someone just claimed to, and then it comes down to word for word. Hardly anything worth to place an admitance of not being able to do something.

[USS Athens]

Yeah, because I'm going to search over 200 pages for an obscure calculation that is probably been disproven already.

I already have, disproven every time. Mostly by Suinquist (can't spell it).

[Hellblade8]

I already have, disproven every time. Mostly by Suinquist (can't spell it).

Thought so.

[Kittamaru]

Don't you guys see what is going on? All of this crap he is doing is to wear you down- ignore him!

[USS Athens]

Okay lets look at it objectively. We know from The Survivors(TNG) that a 400 gigawatt blast complete decimated the shields of a Galaxy class Starship. To be generous we will give them a 500% increase in ability.

Now, for simplicity sake we will just say that it takes a blast on 2,000 gigawatt seconds to produce a similar scrambling of the shields on a GCS and Defiant. Smaller vessels are 1,200 to 1,600 and Sovereign is 4,000. Now this is very generous as it is five times the canon ST amount.

We will call this the Single Beam Break Point or (SBBP). The amount of energy need supplied to 100 square centimeters to smash through the shields. Other hits of lesser variety can weaken the shields and even more powerful hits that is spread over a much larger area and still be fine.

This follows what we know of ST shields, they can take a pounding that is spread over and area of shields. They can take impacts, pr0vided it strikes a large area of shield, however a concentrated high energy assault completely blows them off line.

Okay, is everybody with me so far?

Sovereign, Prometheus, special concept ships 4,000,000,000,000 watt second SBBP
Galaxy, Amabassador, Defiant 2,000,000,000,000 watt second SBBP
Smaller Ships 1,600,000,000,000 watt second SBBP

This is the number of Watts it would take per 100cm^2 to fully blow the shields offline.


Okay in ESB an ISD was using Weapons to clean out an asteroid field. Now if we only go by movie, appearance and what we know of asteroids, these were mostly Nickel Iron granite asteroids. We do know they had to be destroying 100+ meter radius rocks. But for arguments sake we will limit it to 4 times the length of the Falcon or a total of a 100 meter diameter or 50 meter radius

50^3*4/3*pi = 523,598.77 cubic meters

Density of iron is 7,874kg per cubic meter
Density of Nickel is 8,908 kg per cubic meter
Density of granit is 2,750 kg per cubic meter

Assuming a composition of 60% granite, 20% Iron, 20% nickel we would have

863,937,979.74 kg of granite
824,563,351.81 kg of iron
932,843,578.61 kg of nickel

2,621,344,910.16 kilograms total

Granite has a specific heat of 294 joules per kilo and 0 pressure vaporization temp of 1,215 Celsius
Iron has a specific heat of 444 joules per kilo and 0 pressure vaporization temp of 1,811 Celsius
Nickel has a specific heat of 420 joules per kilo and 0 pressure vaporization temp of 1,728 Celsius

From a starting tem of -200 Celsius we get the following joule requirements to heat to vapor.
359,406,838,950,470.00 for granite
736,239,423,819,485.00 for iron
755,379,416,211,937.00 for nickel
1,851,025,678,981,890.00 joules total

Now this puts a 1/15th second blast of the turbnolaser seen in ESB at a minimum of 1,851,025,678,981,890.00 watt seconds

Do we see the disparity yet?

! This isn't the only time he's monalogued about this... He has kept copying passages from that site and putting it into his own words, he at least has to have done this 6 times...

[USS Athens]

I know thats what I ment to ignore him a few pages back.

[Kittamaru]

And it's the same bullshit every time no less.

[Hellblade8]

Don't you guys see what is going on? All of this crap he is doing is to wear you down- ignore him!

He's hardly going to wear me down for more than a night at most, and that would have to do with me getting bored out of anything else.

[Hellblade8]

! This isn't the only time he's monalogued about this... He has kept copying passages from that site and putting it into his own words, he at least has to have done this 6 times...

He does know that the rock wasn't just vaporised right? It was first blown apart and then we saw the chunks fade away. It could have simply have been the rock cooling and we may not have ever known.

[TW Scott]

Okay lets look at it objectively. We know from The Survivors(TNG) that a 400 gigawatt blast complete decimated the shields of a Galaxy class Starship. To be generous we will give them a 500% increase in ability.

Now, for simplicity sake we will just say that it takes a blast on 2,000 gigawatt seconds to produce a similar scrambling of the shields on a GCS and Defiant. Smaller vessels are 1,200 to 1,600 and Sovereign is 4,000. Now this is very generous as it is five times the canon ST amount.

We will call this the Single Beam Break Point or (SBBP). The amount of energy need supplied to 100 square centimeters to smash through the shields. Other hits of lesser variety can weaken the shields and even more powerful hits that is spread over a much larger area and still be fine.

This follows what we know of ST shields, they can take a pounding that is spread over and area of shields. They can take impacts, pr0vided it strikes a large area of shield, however a concentrated high energy assault completely blows them off line.

Okay, is everybody with me so far?

Sovereign, Prometheus, special concept ships 4,000,000,000,000 watt second SBBP
Galaxy, Amabassador, Defiant 2,000,000,000,000 watt second SBBP
Smaller Ships 1,600,000,000,000 watt second SBBP

This is the number of Watts it would take per 100cm^2 to fully blow the shields offline.


Okay in ESB an ISD was using Weapons to clean out an asteroid field. Now if we only go by movie, appearance and what we know of asteroids, these were mostly Nickel Iron granite asteroids. We do know they had to be destroying 100+ meter radius rocks. But for arguments sake we will limit it to 4 times the length of the Falcon or a total of a 100 meter diameter or 50 meter radius

50^3*4/3*pi = 523,598.77 cubic meters

Density of iron is 7,874kg per cubic meter
Density of Nickel is 8,908 kg per cubic meter
Density of granit is 2,750 kg per cubic meter

Assuming a composition of 60% granite, 20% Iron, 20% nickel we would have

863,937,979.74 kg of granite
824,563,351.81 kg of iron
932,843,578.61 kg of nickel

2,621,344,910.16 kilograms total

Granite has a specific heat of 294 joules per kilo and 0 pressure vaporization temp of 1,215 Celsius
Iron has a specific heat of 444 joules per kilo and 0 pressure vaporization temp of 1,811 Celsius
Nickel has a specific heat of 420 joules per kilo and 0 pressure vaporization temp of 1,728 Celsius

From a starting tem of -200 Celsius we get the following joule requirements to heat to vapor.
359,406,838,950,470.00 for granite
736,239,423,819,485.00 for iron
755,379,416,211,937.00 for nickel
1,851,025,678,981,890.00 joules total

Now this puts a 1/15th second blast of the turbnolaser seen in ESB at a minimum of 1,851,025,678,981,890.00 watt seconds

Do we see the disparity yet?

reposting my proof again. Any questions ask nicely. The above work is based on Brian TYoung, with some modification, however the SBBP is entirely my own work.

[TW Scott]

He does know that the rock wasn't just vaporised right? It was first blown apart and then we saw the chunks fade away. It could have simply have been the rock cooling and we may not have ever known.

Excuse me but it appears to be vaporization then it is vaporization. And in those scenes it was vaporizations.

[Kittamaru]

And it's all based on numbers that you cannot even BEGIN to prove as being correct. There are more forces at work than your mind could EVER account for!

And drop the 400 gw shield bullshit already. I already told you again and again WHY IT WAS FLAWED.

[Kittamaru]

Excuse me but it appears to be vaporization then it is vaporization. And in those scenes it was vaporizations.

Ahehe, keep talking noobie

[TW Scott]

I already have, disproven every time. Mostly by Suinquist (can't spell it).

Only if you call ad hominem attacks disproving something

[Kittamaru]

Only if by "ad hominem attacks" you mean "a strong rebuttle based in truthful fact and fiction based on the show itself"

[TW Scott]

And it's all based on numbers that you cannot even BEGIN to prove as being correct. There are more forces at work than your mind could EVER account for!

Than either rpesent them or admit you are lying.

And drop the 400 gw shield bullshit already. I already told you again and again WHY IT WAS FLAWED.

Sorry, but ST canon fully supports this. Though you will not that I explained why a vessel can survive a more forceful impact in my methodology.