Star Wars vs Star Trek

[USS Athens]

I'm new here, so, let's just start off, again. There is a lot of random stuff going around, so lets start over. And I don't think you movie plots are one-hundred percent accurate.

[USS Athens]

I have never seen the so-called "shields" on an Imperial-class star destroyer acutully do anything, no shield impacts, only hull damage, I don't understand this.

[TW Scott]

Enterprise B, hate to tell you this but for both main genres the Movies (and shows for ST) are the mainline canon. What is seen in movies (and shows) trumps everything else. In the caser of ST only the shows and Movies are canon. In SW most of the lesser material is canon as long as it does not DIRECTLY dispute the movies.


As for your shield question SW shields are hull hugging, not even a meter from the craft. This means from a distance any shield impact would appears as a hull impact that did no damage

[Kittamaru]

You wan ultimate proof of the superiority of Star Trek shields?

Voyager, the beginning of EVERY episode, what does that little exploration vessel do?

It flys between a large star and it's plasma ejection... that is a cubic assload of thermal and other radiation hitting the navigational shields... that shows the shields must be INCREDIBLY strong to withstand that without even iluminating!

BTW- it was my birthday this weekend so that's why I've been inactive :P

[TW Scott]

You wan ultimate proof of the superiority of Star Trek shields?

Voyager, the beginning of EVERY episode, what does that little exploration vessel do?

It flys between a large star and it's plasma ejection... that is a cubic assload of thermal and other radiation hitting the navigational shields... that shows the shields must be INCREDIBLY strong to withstand that without even iluminating!

BTW- it was my birthday this weekend so that's why I've been inactive :P

Actually that is quite a bit of heat, but it is spread out among the shields, and of course considering Janeway is not completely stupid, main deflectors are up as well. Even if it wasn't our sun kicks out plasma jets that you could fit a few thousand earths between top of the arch and the corona. So voyager could still be millions of miles away from anything that could hurt it.

[Kittamaru]

The jet was just forming as Voyager approached it- you can see it lift from the surface

The thing I am proving (or rather disproving) is from TNG- the Galaxy's shields were comparatively inadequate against the corona of a sun (where as even a Bird of Prey could withstand skimming meters above a stars outer core as seen when Worf re-joined the Klingons as a brief stint to regain his honor). This shows how technology has improved dramaticly along the timeline of the series. Ships like the Galaxy are a far cry from the Intrepid, the Defiant, and the Sovereign. Then there are the even NEWER Norway, Prometheus, and others.

Trek has shown some rather serious advancement in a small span of time- is it not reasonable to expect it would continue? Adding in things like the technology and information gathered by Voyager and Ent-D you could safely assume their tech would increase exponentially.

[TW Scott]

Dude, are you intentionaly being stupid?

There is no whay a craft flying millions of miles from a star and at least tousands of miles from so plasma ejecta is the equivalent of being in the corona of a Star. It's likes comparing a pence to a million pound note.

Also note that Intre[pid was considered not as capable as a Galaxy class craft. it falls short in every catagory save maneuverabilty. Even the Norway, Saberhagen, Steamrunner, classes are not on part to a Galaxy class ship. Of course it is like asking a Frigat or destroyer to do the job of a Battleship. Sovereign is a step up form a Galaxy class and Defiant class a step sideways.

[Fettman]

One more thing I would like to say before I head out for the night,
Ewoks did not beat the imps, there was atleast 50 reb commandos and if you watch ROTJ closely we really only saw a few strommies geting jumped by about 10 of the little fuzz balls and taking down the AT-STs well lets see you stand up to a bunch of logs falling into you. btw ewoks would kick the borgs ass! GO FUZZ BALLS!

[Lord Vasago]

oh boy there we go again on shields.

Did anyone see how an superstardestroyer hit de deathstar ? And yet they have to blow up the powercore for the deathstar to be destroyed. that is some shielding.

I don't say ST shields are weak but hey i wondering.
there is an episode where riker said they would need al their torpedo's (+280) to blow up an asteroid but howmany torpedo's does it take to destroy a ST ship? Plus a galaxy ship can't pass a nebula.

as for the awing flying into the bridge of the SSD. Akbar ordered every rebel vessel to attack the ssd. Image 50 bop attacking voyager simultanoisly. Howlong would it take untill the shields are down? take a shuttle and hit voyager.

[Lord Vasago]

It's true...Star Wars is full of the all the same plots.

Attack of the Clones: Start a Pointless War

The Revenge of the Sith: End a Pointless War

I say it was a pointless War because it all started for...what? Because of Trade negoiations with the Naboo...No that was ten years ago. They start a war just because they want to leave the Republic...

.

euh ... the whole clonewar is started bij palpatine so the republic would use clonetroopers against the federation in order for him to rise and become emperor and have a army to their disposal. so i don't think it's that pointless to the sith is you regard the fact nearly al jedi are gone and anakin turned into vader. He use the tradefeds on naboo so amidala would use her voice in senate and ask for a stronger manegement thus electing palpatine.

[TW Scott]

Actually Lord Vasago SW shields are superior to ST by orders of magnitude. Evidence has been provided again and again.

[Kittamaru]

Dude, are you intentionaly being stupid?

There is no whay a craft flying millions of miles from a star and at least tousands of miles from so plasma ejecta is the equivalent of being in the corona of a Star. It's likes comparing a pence to a million pound note.

Also note that Intre[pid was considered not as capable as a Galaxy class craft. it falls short in every catagory save maneuverabilty. Even the Norway, Saberhagen, Steamrunner, classes are not on part to a Galaxy class ship. Of course it is like asking a Frigat or destroyer to do the job of a Battleship. Sovereign is a step up form a Galaxy class and Defiant class a step sideways.

Watch the intro... it flys BETWEEN them... that is NOT millions of miles... that is perhaps tens of miles!

Christ... eyes for the win?

Steamrunner > galaxy as far as sheer power- it's photon and artilary banks are far more powerful than a galaxy's power. IT's defenses aren't as good, but the firepower is superior.

[Kittamaru]

And no, Vasago, this "evidence" of his is made up. He has not proven ANYTHING canon... and in fact evidence AGAINST it has been proven from BOOKS AND MOVIE EVIDENCE...

so yeah, side as you wish, but Scott is more full of bullshit than he'd ever admit.

[Kittamaru]

And vasago-

shuttles (and indeed other starships) have had to impact specific points to deal damage. Watch movies like nemesis- a large portion of a ship far larger than the Ent-E imapcted it's nacell and didn't do much.

in TNG, a miranda class ship impacted the nacell of the Ent-D destroying it. This was onyl because there was no bridge control thanks to a temporal rift and they could not prevent a core overload.

In Voyager voyager has been hit MULTIPLE TIMES without shielding and survived... caretaker was a VERY good example of it.

Give Voyager it's ablative armor, and those 50 BoP's could well be 500 for all the good it would do. BORG CUBES couldn't destroy that armor. It was only in the transwarp tunnel that it started to fail!

[Kittamaru]

Finally, and this is using Scott's own flawed logic against him...

Scott, you claim a blaster bolt has some kinetic energy, thus implying physical mass...

Blaster bolts move in a STRAIGHT LINE at SUB LIGHT speed, correct? (given we can see them moving in the movies)

This means they can be shot down, right?

The advanced defensive systems on the Nebula class (PDP's) would be able to target, intercept, and destroy incoming blaster fire then... if they can do it with faster than light Photon Torpedo's they can do it with Sub-Light blaster bolts.

It wouldn't take much to refit that kind of tech to ALL starships...

now your primary (and indeed in many cases ONLY) weapon system is null and void... as Proton torpedos move EVEN SLOWER, they would also be nulified...

that leaves you with Ion weapons... whee, shield harmonics takes care of that...

now what? Teh Force? Good luck with those numbers...

[Lord Vasago]

a galaxy class ship can't even make his shields strong enough to pass through a low-density asteroidfield safely (Genesis) nor can it withstand a low velocity rock impacts (Pegasus)

[Saquist]

Enterprise B, hate to tell you this but for both main genres the Movies (and shows for ST) are the mainline canon. What is seen in movies (and shows) trumps everything else. In the caser of ST only the shows and Movies are canon. In SW most of the lesser material is canon as long as it does not DIRECTLY dispute the movies.


As for your shield question SW shields are hull hugging, not even a meter from the craft. This means from a distance any shield impact would appears as a hull impact that did no damage

What Scotch here fails to tell you is that the movies constantly contradict the lesser canon material notably the ICS books The incredible Cross section. Not to ment that canon statements from the higher ups of star wars have told us with out a shadow of a doubt that nothing is absolute in star wars except for the films...as a result it's okay to evaluate star wars based on the films only.

The reason why that is, they expected that the novels and books would conflict. To avoid that conflict they designated the films only as absolute.

[Saquist]

Actually Lord Vasago SW shields are superior to ST by orders of magnitude. Evidence has been provided again and again.

comparative evidence has proved beyond a shadow of doubt that the Galaxy phaser beam has proved to be up 6 to 8 times more firepower than the turbolaser.

Scoooty you've yet to actually prove anything. Nor have you accepted defeat by means of overwhelming evidence. Evidence that is readily available on this page.

This was on screen vs on screen. And The Enterprise won hands down.

[Kittamaru]

Star Trek: Voyager - the 27

It is told to A. Earhart that warp 9.9 is roughly 999 billion miles per SECOND.

Yeah... light speed has nothin on that

Straight from the episode I'm watching now

[TW Scott]

Watch the intro... it flys BETWEEN them... that is NOT millions of miles... that is perhaps tens of miles!

Are you stones, tens of miles would be IN the corona. A Solar flare like you are describing can lash out millions of miles with no effort at all.

Christ... eyes for the win?

Common sense for the win, eyes can be fooled., especially by perspective.