Is God willing but not able?

[Medicine*Woman]

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M*W: According to atheist David Hume, "Epicurus' old questions are yet unanswered. Is [God] willing to prevent evil, but not able? then is he impotent? Is he able, but not willing? then is he malevolent? Is he both able and willing? whence then is evil?" ~ David Hume

I appreciate your comments. ~ M*W

[ashura]

The standard response would seem to be: without evil, how would you know what good is?

[shichimenshyo]

The standard response would seem to be: without evil, how would you know what good is?

I Still dont think we know

[ashura]

I Still dont think we know

In this context, good would be whatever God says is good. We do have to look at this through a theist's eyes, no?

[shichimenshyo]

In this context, good would be whatever God says is good. We do have to look at this through a theist's eyes, no?

Then I would say that god allows evil to exist because in us he bestowed the freedom of choice and evil is not a construct of god directly, but a creation of the beings he created?

[ashura]

Then I would say that god allows evil to exist because in us he bestowed the freedom of choice and evil is not a construct of god directly, but a creation of the beings he created?

Sounds pretty on target. If we couldn't commit acts of evil, would we really have freedom of choice is the selling point.

[shichimenshyo]

Sounds pretty on target. If we couldn't commit acts of evil, would we really have freedom of choice is the selling point.

I dont think we would, which leads to the question why would we be given the capacity to do evil if god knew it was going to happen in the first place?

[ashura]

I dont think we would, which leads to the question why would we be given the capacity to do evil if god knew it was going to happen in the first place?

Which would beg the next question, what would you rather have: freedom of choice, or the scariest form of authoritarianism ever imagined? You thought Big Brother was bad, Big Father'll show you how it's done!

[shichimenshyo]

Which would beg the next question, what would you rather have: freedom of choice, or the scariest form of authoritarianism ever imagined? You thought Big Brother was bad, Big Father'll show you how it's done!

hehe, I would say that, you have that option open to you, its called being a good theist and going to heaven, but the way you made it sound is way too 1984

[phlogistician]

The standard response would seem to be: without evil, how would you know what good is?

Yes, that one is trotted out too often. Of course the answer is, if everything was good, why would you need to measure it against anything?

[phlogistician]

Meanwhile, on 'is god willing bit not able, or able, but not willing', .. well it doesn't matter because god doesn't come across as being a nice guy from either outcome.

This of course is excused with 'god works in mysterious ways', if you call tsunamis and famines 'mysterious', that is.

[John99]

I dont see how you could have intelligent beings without some who be considered 'evil'.

Of course if we were to look at this scientifically\medically then we would normally blame this on mental defects. Except of course for demons.

If you as me, the author quoted is not ver intelligent either.

[ashura]

Yes, that one is trotted out too often. Of course the answer is, if everything was good, why would you need to measure it against anything?

So are you advocating the sacrifice of our freedom of choice?

[maxg]

I think it is likely that if God exists humans must be pretty insignifcant to him/her/it. It would seem to be a question of scale. I don't care about the welfare of bacteria--hell I don't even care about the welfare of ants--so why should God care about human suffering.

The argument that we need to experience evil to know good is fallacious--you can have the direct experience of good (or cold, or life, or happiness, etc.) without the experience of its opposite. And certainly God, being omnipotent, could reveal the direct experience of good without having to resort to the use of evil.

[Grantywanty]

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M*W: According to atheist David Hume, "Epicurus' old questions are yet unanswered. Is [God] willing to prevent evil, but not able? then is he impotent? Is he able, but not willing? then is he malevolent? Is he both able and willing? whence then is evil?" ~ David Hume

I appreciate your comments. ~ M*W

There has been a problem on Gods part and this is reflected in our lives as well.

[ashura]

*************
M*W: According to atheist David Hume, "Epicurus' old questions are yet unanswered. Is [God] willing to prevent evil, but not able? then is he impotent? Is he able, but not willing? then is he malevolent? Is he both able and willing? whence then is evil?" ~ David Hume

I appreciate your comments. ~ M*W

Also, we also have to remember that from the theist's point of view (specifically the Abrahamic one as I'm pretty sure that's the one we're talking about), it's impossible for God to be considered evil because everything God is and everything God says is what makes good things good.

The best way I can put that is, good things aren't good because they're good. They're good because God says they're good.

So nothing God does, be it action or lack of action, can be considered evil because he, in essence, IS goodness.

[ashura]

I think it is likely that if God exists humans must be pretty insignifcant to him/her/it. It would seem to be a question of scale. I don't care about the welfare of bacteria--hell I don't even care about the welfare of ants--so why should God care about human suffering.

We're speshal.

[John99]

Well at htis point in development humans are left to the whims of nature. (not talking about the weather)

Addendum:

I think presently if God were to make an assessment, what would he\she\it think? For that matter what would you think if you were in that position? I know what i would be thinking....

...maybe it was just meant to be, after all where is the evidence that intelligence has evolved? And if it has NOT or does not evolve then what? If we are dangerous with clubs and rocks...sure with time knowledge develops but if the engine is the same then what? The only solution is collective intelligence, like billions of microprocessors in unison.

[Grantywanty]

Also, we also have to remember that from the theist's point of view (specifically the Abrahamic one as I'm pretty sure that's the one we're talking about), it's impossible for God to be considered evil because everything God is and everything God says is what makes good things good.

The best way I can put that is, good things aren't good because they're good. They're good because God says they're good.

So nothing God does, be it action or lack of action, can be considered evil because he, in essence, IS goodness.

And we used to treat fathers this way, in general. And slowly we learned that this pattern wasn't helping anyone, even the fathers.
And so it has been with God.
He messed up, he's working on it.
Notions of the always perfect God are very hard for most theists to let go of. But it needs to be let go of. If nothing else it will take a toy away from atheists. Time for everyone to grow up.

[John99]

There may just be a need for balance, what we like or do not like is of little consequence.