Hillary v/s Hillary

**madanthonywayne** · 11-02-07, 11:16 PM

This is a campaign ad from the Edward's campaign. It's pretty good. It shows Hillary taking opposite positions on the same issues in the course of one debate. Pretty funny. I hope he doesn't mind if we borrow it for the general election.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qggO5yY7RAo

**countezero** · 11-03-07, 12:27 AM

I watched part of the debate the other night. I thought Edwards, Dodd and Obama did a fairly good job. Essentially, you agree with their positions, or you don't. Hillary, on the other hand, was a debacle. I seriously cannot understand why this woman has a chance to become president. During my spell in front of the TV, she never directly answered a question and refused to take a position on numerous issues that call for an essentially yes/no response. She obfuscated, circled, passed blame and complained. In the days following her poor performance, she's questioned the other candidates and the moderator. I think she just hates tough questions, and I'm glad someone is finally asking them to her...

That clip was brilliant, too. Pure Hillary. I guess that's what she mean's by playing "gotcha."

**madanthonywayne** · 11-03-07, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by countezero

I seriously cannot understand why this woman has a chance to become president. During my spell in front of the TV, she never directly answered a question and refused to take a position on numerous issues that call for an essentially yes/no response. She obfuscated, circled, passed blame and complained. In the days following her poor performance, she's questioned the other candidates and the moderator.

All too true. But she's way out in front, and with the abbreviated primary season we've created this time around, there's really not much time for anyone to overtake her.

But, as I said in the OP, this ad will be a great one to recycle in the general election. It's funny how often candidates are destroyed by their own parties in the primaries. Remember the much maligned "Willie Horton" ads that helped sink Dukakis? Those were originally created by, I think, Al Gore's campaign during the primary.

**Exhumed** · 11-03-07, 12:49 AM

I seriously cannot understand why this woman has a chance to become president.

She has gotten a free ride because of political allies and democratic voters think that they are just voting for Bill Clinton again. They are not interested in Hillary's record, in general.

**countezero** · 11-03-07, 01:10 AM

I agree, but that's a hell of an attitude to pick what is arguably going to be an important president. Hillary Clinton, per my appreciation, hasn't done anything and isn't good at anything other than controlling her own image, which The Media seems reluctant to chip away at...

**Exhumed** · 11-03-07, 01:20 AM

Personally I'm not sure how (in)accurate the notion that Hillary = Bill is. Even if she is the same, this isn't the nineties anymore. Bill Clinton was good (depending on your POV) when times were good. Even if Bill himself were back in office there is no way he could reproduce what he did before.

**countezero** · 11-03-07, 03:02 PM

Bill at least knew how to politic and could compromise. He also didn't whine when he was attacked and had the personality to make himself useful even at his lowest moments during the presidency. He also had a record of achievement that could be debated. Hillary has none of this...

**spidergoat** · 11-03-07, 09:50 PM

I think she did quite well. Her answers seemed honest, if not decisive. Some of these issues are complex.

**~~sandy~~** · 11-03-07, 10:53 PM

Hillary sucks. She is a fraud, a chameleon, and she will say ANYTHING to ANYONE to appease them/get their vote. I was hoping our first woman POTUS candidate would be one of integrity, honor, honesty, etc... Not this poor excuse for a human. She is not to be trusted. I don't admire or respect her. She is a sell-out.

**countezero** · 11-04-07, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by spidergoat

I think she did quite well. Her answers seemed honest, if not decisive. Some of these issues are complex.

We all know you are rankly partisan, Spider. But you do realize there are other Democrats to vote for than Hillary, don't you? Did you watch the link? If you did, how can you see that and use terms like "honest" and "decisive" to describe her answers. She obfuscated, which is largely what she did all night, by any sane person's reckoning. Volunteer for her campaign if you like, but please don't bludgeon our intelligence with the sharp end of your unbelievable bias.

Lest we forget, you are the person who denied FACTS, such as he support and cheer-leading of the war. I also seem to recall that you couldn't name one achievement of hers when put on the spot and asked.

**countezero** · 11-04-07, 10:57 PM

Another example:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/67939

**iceaura** · 11-04-07, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by madanth

Remember the much maligned "Willie Horton" ads that helped sink Dukakis? Those were originally created by, I think, Al Gore's campaign during the primary.

? !! This kind of memory oddity is one of the strangest things about the campaign scenes these days.

It's as if reality has no role. I can understand why Giuliani is in the lead over on the Rep side - who have they got, besides Paul? - but the Dems have decent choices besides Kucinich or Hillary. There is no benefit for the Dems in deciding on anyone so early, and setting them up as a target a full year before the vote - let alone someone with the negatives Hillary carries.

Has anyone else noticed how easy and slack recent NPR interviewing has been on administration representatives ? And how they've been treating Paul and Kucinich (the two candidates who poll the highest in overall issue agreement among voters) ?

**countezero** · 11-05-07, 09:28 AM

Well, at least Hillary has cleared one thing up: She supports Driver's licenses for illegals.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...ense-illegals/

**pjdude1219** · 11-05-07, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by countezero

Well, at least Hillary has cleared one thing up: She supports Driver's licenses for illegals.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...ense-illegals/

do you understand the logic behind that or are you blowing smoke?

**countezero** · 11-05-07, 03:46 PM

Personally, I fail to see much logic (other than electoral realpolitik) in anything she does. Maybe you could help me...

**madanthonywayne** · 11-05-07, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by pjdude1219

do you understand the logic behind that or are you blowing smoke?

The logic? If you show up at a government office and proclaim yourself a lawbreaker, you should be arrested; not given a license!

Illegal Alien: "Hi. I entered this country illegally and then used forged documents to get a job, breaking several state and federal laws in the process.
DMV: "Really? You shouldn't have to go to all that trouble. Here's an official government document you can use instead of the forged ones you've been using up to now"
Illegal Alien: "Hey, thanks a lot."

**countezero** · 11-05-07, 07:32 PM

That's what I said the other day to a friend of mine who is a lawyer. Basically, I told him I thought the nation has reached a pretty strange place, in that the head of a state government is proposing legislation that will enable people to continue to break state and federal laws. Since when is the government supposed to enable criminal behavior?

**okayillgonow** · 11-05-07, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by madanthonywayne

This is a campaign ad from the Edward's campaign. It's pretty good. It shows Hillary taking opposite positions on the same issues in the course of one debate. Pretty funny. I hope he doesn't mind if we borrow it for the general election.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qggO5yY7RAo

Originally Posted by madanthonywayne

The logic? If you show up at a government office and proclaim yourself a lawbreaker, you should be arrested; not given a license!

Illegal Alien: "Hi. I entered this country illegally and then used forged documents to get a job, breaking several state and federal laws in the process.
DMV: "Really? You shouldn't have to go to all that trouble. Here's an official government document you can use instead of the forged ones you've been using up to now"
Illegal Alien: "Hey, thanks a lot."

Thank God for MadAnthonyWayne! I never liked Hillary in the beginning. We need people like MadAnthonyWayne to know which politician to elect as president.

**countezero** · 11-05-07, 10:29 PM

So do you have anything of substance to offer?

**iceaura** · 11-05-07, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by count

the nation has reached a pretty strange place, in that the head of a state government is proposing legislation that will enable people to continue to break state and federal laws. Since when is the government supposed to enable criminal behavior?

Oh, man. This place? We've been here a while.

Hillary is a rightwing, authoritarian, "conservative", corporate-friendly politician. Always has been, always will be. The role of the law, to such people, is tool: expedience. The driver's licenses are expedient - her support needs cheap labor,the police have a large enforcement problem, etc. The same principle governs the special certification of "Made In USA" labels on clothes not made in the USA, to handle the problem of forgeries and knockoffs and bring the benefits of "made in usa" to people who will reciprocate with political support.