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Thread: Armenian Genocide

  1. #21
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    Seems a bit conspiracy theory-ish to me. Turkey is also just as free to not raid Iraq and regardless of what the USA does there will remain animosity between the Kurds and everyone around them.
    They've already approved it; the Iraq war will probably become known as the point when the world turned to crap.

    Turkey: Government approves cross border raid into Iraq



    Ankara, 9 Oct. (AKI) - Turkey's prime minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and high-ranking military officials have approved a potential cross-border military operation to counter Kurdish separatists.

    At a security summit in the Turkish capital Ankara on Tuesday, top bureaucrats and army officials, led by Erdogan, agreed to take tougher measures to stop militants from the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) staging terrorist attacks.

    “To put an end to the terrorist organisation operating in Iraq, the order has been given to take every kind of measure, legal, economic, political, including also a cross-border operation if necessary," the officials said in a statement issued after the meeting.

  2. #22
    Registered Senior Member maxg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    Anyway, second point, why doesn't the USA Senate censure the English for their genocide against the Aboriginals in Australia or the Native Americans in North America or censure the Spanish for their genocide against the central and south Americans or censure the French and Dutch and Portuguese and English for their genocide against pacific islanders?

    It just seems very odd to me that the USA needs to stick it's nose into the business of Turkey and NOT into the business of the English or the French or the etc...
    Because the Aremnian lobby in the US is a lot stronger than the non-existant aboriginal or pacific islander lobbies--the Native Americans probably do have some political clout but the US isn't going to condemn itself.

    The BBC story on this also points out that the Armenian lobby is particular strong in States that have a lot of political clout (like Michigan, California & Massachusetts):
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7040344.stm

    It's a non-binding resolution so it really doesn't mean anything as far as US policy is concerned--these are just politicians' way to make voters happy without actually doing anything. It really does come down to national politics for congress, with the Bush administration being against it because it affects international politics.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    They've already approved it; the Iraq war will probably become known as the point when the world turned to crap.
    Maybe so, but (not to seem uncaring) but relatively, I don't think that war is that important and ifnations are able to ween themselves from being so oil dependent it matters even less so. If we are not prepared then I'd say that the day we hit the wall in terms of oil as the day the world turns to crap.

    Lets face it, the Iraq war II is just one in a long line of wars the USA has fought without achieving much of any of it's goals. In 20 years that generation of Americans will know as much about Iraq as this generations knows about Korea and Vietnam - not much at all.

    Anyway, we're getting a new president in a year and I think things will turn up then - at least for the USA. Not to mention your country and China seem to be on the rise so the world is far from crap-o-la yet.
    I think OIL is the main issue in regards to world excrement .


    That aside, I am going to specifically ask my Armenian buddy today what he thinks of the whole US Senate's decision.

    MII

  4. #24
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    I doubt a change in Presidents will change anything.

  5. #25
    The new president will have to make a plan for making an alliance with whomever's going to be in charge and exiting. I suspect Iraq will be split into two or three countries and left to fight it out amongst themselves. Sort of like North and South Ireland or North and South Korea or North and South Cyprus or north and south Vietnam (initially then they fought it out) or north and south India (ala Pakistan) or north and south Iraq.. oh wait that hasn't happened yet...

  6. #26
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    Personally, I'm expecting a Republican victory

  7. #27
    Haaaa! I swear I'll eat my underwear if Republicans win.

  8. #28
    Registered Senior Member chuuush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tablariddim View Post
    The Turkish archives contain accounts written by the Turks in charge at the time. The idea of bias has obviously never crossed the minds of its supporters, has it?
    Wrong, The Turkish archives also do contain accounts from Russian and European sources and what Turkey is calling for is not to make the final decision solely on the basis of these documents. Turkey says let us all open our archives fully and let a committe of historians from both sides as well as other neutral historians decide as to what really happened.
    One also shouldn't forget that hundreds of thousands of muslim Turks and Kurds were also killed by the armenian gangs at that era.
    Last edited by chuuush; 10-12-07 at 04:43 AM.

  9. #29
    Registered Senior Member chuuush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffalo Roam View Post
    What would you expect? they are on the bull's-eye, and from the reactions of Moslems to anything they perceive as criticism,

    Really? I am the one ignorate of History? then what about the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin el-Husseini ... Hanjar Division and Gebirgs divisions of the Waffen SS which he personally recruited for Hitler. ...eh?

    Kharaillah Tulfah, close friend of Amin Al-Husseini and his main partner during the pro-Nazi coup [ix] in 1941 in Baghdad.

    The mufti barely escaped trial for treason by fleeing to Egypt in 1946. There he made young Yasser Arafat, then living in Cairo, his protégé. The mufti secretly imported a former Nazi commando officer into Egypt to teach Mr. Arafat and other teenage recruits the fine points of guerrilla warfare. Mr. Arafat learned his lessons well – the mufti was so proud of him he even pretended the two of them were blood relations.

    Historical connections with the Nazis abound, it may be you who needs the history lesson.

    The countries of Argentina, Lithuania, Netherlands, Canada, Uruguay, Itilay, Lebanon, Belgium, Cyprus, Russia, Greece, Sweden, Slovakia, Poland, America, Germany, the European Parliament, all recognize that the Genocid of the Armenians took place, and a little reading of history seems to show that special attention was paid to the Armenians to remove them from their homes and lands.,


    NPR : Turkey Pressed to Admit Armenian Genocide
    Turkey Pressed to Admit Armenian Genocide ... probe with neighboring Armenia, many Turks continue to be defensive about what they call `the Armenian issue. ...
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4620581


    THE ARAB/MUSLIM NAZI CONNECTION
    The Arab/Muslim Nazi Connection. Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin el-Husseini ... Division" of the Waffen SS which he personally recruited for Hitler. ...
    http://christianactionforisrael.org/.../arabnazi.html

    Hitler's Soviet Muslim Legions
    The Grand Mufti approved the plan to raise a Turkic-Muslim SS division and give ... imams for the Muslim military units in the Waffen SS and the Wehrmacht. ...
    http://stosstruppen39-45.tripod.com/id10.html

    The Arab/Muslim Nazi Connection - Anti-Semitism and Holocaust
    A picture taken in 1943 of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin ... The Nazi-Arab connection existed even when Adolf Hitler first seized power in Germany ...
    http://christianactionforisrael.org/.../arabnazi.html

    Hitler And The Grand Mufti Of Jerusalem: Origins Of Modern Islamic ...
    The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the ...
    http://www.hyscience.com/archives/20..._and_the_1.php

    ps: I don't hate Moslems, why would I? I hate the duplicity of Islam, and the acts committed by Moslems in the name of God, and then justified with the Qur'an and the Hadiths, the talk of being peaceful and the reality of murdered innocents, both Moslem and all the rest, the burned churches, the slavery that is still in practice, the systemic hatred of the Jews, and the constant sermons from the Mosques of Jihad, and the oppression of Islam, the oppression comes from Islam.
    Classic anti-muslim hatred of you. Also, this maybe news to you, but Turks and Kurds are not of Arab origin, though the Arabic support for the anti-colonial side during the WWII is also quite understandable.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    Personally, I'm expecting a Republican victory
    um... as absolutely-fuckin-wicked as that would be, i think we right wingers should get used to the idea of President Hillary and her beautiful 1st lady, William

  11. #31
    Registered Senior Member Buffalo Roam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuuush View Post
    Classic anti-muslim hatred of you. Also, this maybe news to you, but Turks and Kurds are not of Arab origin, though the Arabic support for the anti-colonial side during the WWII is also quite understandable.
    It my come as surprise to you but I do know the difference between Turks and Arabs, but what is interesting and I was pointing out was the point where they meet, and that is in Islam, and the Moslems of Islam never take the blame for any thing that goes wrong, its always the Jews or the Christians that stab them in the back.

    Turkey at the time of the Ottoman Empire was a Islamic Caliphate, ruled with the Qur'an and Sharia' Law, it was a ally of the Central Powers, led by the Austro-Hungarian, German, alliance, and got is ass handed to it by the Russians, and it seems to have followed the same pattern as always, the Moslems get their ass kicked, and they take it out on the Jews or Christians, they always find some one else to blame for their failures, and then take it out on them.

  12. #32
    'Now I am become Death broadandbeaver's Avatar
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    I find it interesting that the head of the ADL, Abraham Foxman denies such a thing as an "Armenian Genocide" took place. Would seem they'd be all over this.

    http://www.jewcy.com/tags/armenian_genocide
    http://www.jewcy.com/feature/2007-07-09/fire_foxman

  13. #33
    Registered Senior Member maxg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by broadandbeaver View Post
    I find it interesting that the head of the ADL, Abraham Foxman denies such a thing as an "Armenian Genocide" took place. Would seem they'd be all over this.
    Perhaps you should look at the ADL's statement on the issue rather than articles that are a few months old:
    http://www.adl.org/PresRele/Mise_00/5114_00.htm

  14. #34
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otheadp View Post
    um... as absolutely-fuckin-wicked as that would be, i think we right wingers should get used to the idea of President Hillary and her beautiful 1st lady, William
    Americans will not vote a woman into power.

  15. #35
    I'm a US Citizen and I am voting for Hillary. My buddy I just spoke with in Florida is voting Hillary.

  16. #36
    RE: Armenian genocide.

    Looking at the video of the Armenian heads staked in piles - come on, the head chop, that's a tried and true classic. Just ask Danny Pearl.

    Michael

  17. #37
    I've been thinking more about this Armenian genocide. I have come to the conclusion that the Democrats have decided that this is a great means of splitting some Christians from the Party of God. All good Christians know that this genocide was the work of Satan's little helpers. I can hear it now in Churches all across the Bible Belt, Muslims went on a killing spree and slaughtering millions of innocent Christians from one side of Turkey to the next. Bush, by taking the prudent (over the moral) high ground, has forsaken Good Christian morals and Baby Jesus is crying in heaven as we speak.

    The Democrats have begun to use Republican tactics against the Party of God. Slowly splitting off fractions here and there until there if little is anything left.

    Combined with Bush's Vote Against Children's Health and losing two Wars the GOP sinks ever deeper into shit.

    A sad reality in todays American Politics,
    Michael

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    The Democrats have begun to use Republican tactics against the Party of God. Slowly splitting off fractions here and there until there if little is anything left. Combined with Bush's Vote Against Children's Health and losing two Wars the GOP sinks ever deeper into shit.
    The Armenian-American community has been trying to get a resolution like this passed for more than twenty years, probably thirty. The majority of them live in California (remember Governor George Deukmejian, author William Saroyan?) and finally a Californian with a huge Armenian constituency in her district is Speaker of the House. That's about all there is to it, a textbook example of synchronicity.

    But there may be a subtext. The Democrats are not stupid enough to fail to see the outcome of this: a rift between the U.S. and Turkey, one of our most strategic allies in the Middle East. We won't be able to send supplies to our military forces in Iraq and Afghanistan--and soon to be Pakistan--because they're all staged through an airbase in Turkey. We won't have to wait till 2009 for Bush's successor to draw down this stupid war, it will start happening now due to sheer logistics.

    Of course the Kurds will suffer, since Turkey will now have no compunctions about launching military strikes against their supporters in Iraq. By Mideastern standards, Iraq used to be an oasis of peace and pro-Western politics; now Iraqi Kurdistan is all that remains of that, and soon it will be gone.

    And Israel of course. Turkey, AFAIK, is the only important Muslim nations with which it has diplomatic relations. Say goodbye to that.

    The Europeans won't criticize us for any of this, since it will also be the end of Turkey's chance at joining the EU.

    Considering that Americans have no sense of history (if we did we'd have to give the country back to the Indians), it's almost amusing that at this precise moment were going to dredge up something that happened 90 years ago between two ethnic groups that most of our people couldn't find on a map.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by draqon View Post
    Turkish people waged war on all around them...including Armenia and Russia...the question is why havent they killed each other off yet?
    Give me a break, draqon.

    It was your Russians and Armenian irregulars under the czar of Nicholas II that invaded our lands and massacred hundreds of thousands of people. Study your history, or in the least, give your posts the slightest thought before sending it off for the world to see.

    http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP12.HTM

  20. #40
    Registered Senior Member Buffalo Roam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fraggle Rocker View Post
    The Armenian-American community has been trying to get a resolution like this passed for more than twenty years, probably thirty. The majority of them live in California (remember Governor George Deukmejian, author William Saroyan?) and finally a Californian with a huge Armenian constituency in her district is Speaker of the House. That's about all there is to it, a textbook example of synchronicity.

    But there may be a subtext. The Democrats are not stupid enough to fail to see the outcome of this: a rift between the U.S. and Turkey, one of our most strategic allies in the Middle East. We won't be able to send supplies to our military forces in Iraq and Afghanistan--and soon to be Pakistan--because they're all staged through an airbase in Turkey. We won't have to wait till 2009 for Bush's successor to draw down this stupid war, it will start happening now due to sheer logistics.

    Of course the Kurds will suffer, since Turkey will now have no compunctions about launching military strikes against their supporters in Iraq. By Mideastern standards, Iraq used to be an oasis of peace and pro-Western politics; now Iraqi Kurdistan is all that remains of that, and soon it will be gone.

    And Israel of course. Turkey, AFAIK, is the only important Muslim nations with which it has diplomatic relations. Say goodbye to that.

    The Europeans won't criticize us for any of this, since it will also be the end of Turkey's chance at joining the EU.

    Considering that Americans have no sense of history (if we did we'd have to give the country back to the Indians), it's almost amusing that at this precise moment were going to dredge up something that happened 90 years ago between two ethnic groups that most of our people couldn't find on a map.

    But the Democrats have passed Genocide Resolutions against Turkey twice in the past, in 1978 and in 1984, so why pass another one right now?

    70% of the supplies that are meant for the Troops in Iraq go through Turkey, and by passing this resolution the Democrats are pissing off the Turks, and they are threatening to stop letting us supply our troops through their country which is the most effective, fastest, and shortest route to do the supply, now how is that for supporting the troops, make it harder to get the supplies, and evacuate the wounded.

    Nice way to screw up the influence we have been building up with Turkey, the Democrats really want us to loose this war and send the middle east into total chaos.

    Turks threaten to 'play hardball' with US after genocide vote ...
    Armenians row could hit supply links to Iraq ... feared Turkey would cut vital supply lines to Iraq. About 70% of US air cargo for Iraq goes through Turkey. ...
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/turkey/sto...189363,00.html
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=3719451

    Turkey, which is a key supply route to U.S. troops in Iraq, recalled its ambassador to Washington on Thursday and warned of serious repercussions if Congress labels the killing of Armenians by Turks a century ago as genocide.

    Analysts also have speculated the resolution could make Turkey more inclined to send troops into northern Iraq to hunt Turkish Kurd rebels, a move opposed by the U.S. because it would disrupt one of the few relatively stable and peaceful Iraqi areas.

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