The Home of the Refugee the UNITED STATES of AMERICA

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Buffalo Roam, Oct 2, 2007.

  1. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    Really? The U.S. Has one of the largest comunities of Jews in the world here in the U.S.


    How were they suppose to stay in their own countries? their own countries confiscated their properties, and destroyed the title documents of land ownership, the Germans destroyed all documentation of Land Titles of Jewish citizens, and in the rest of occupied Europe when ever possible it was repeated.

    ...
     
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  3. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    While I disagree with SAM's summary of the events, I also cannot agree it was at all easy for Jewish refugees to get into the US. They often spent months on a ship only to be turned back in New York harbor.
     
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  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    What part of my summary do you disagree with?


    ^^ My summary

    And its more than being turned away:

    I think it was not until 1950s that they changed the National Origins quota
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Origins_Quota_of_1924
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2007
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  7. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    There was already a Jewish population in the area, at least in the major cities. The UN did not mandate a Jewish state, only a degree of self-rule. The fight for independence came later, due to (mostly) mutual conflicts with the local Muslims.
     
  8. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Indeed; the UN did little more than ratify the status-quo created by decades of political and demographic decisions made by the British Mandate.
     
  9. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, but the reason there was immigration to Palestine and a requirement for the mandate was because the Europeans, Canadians and Americans turned away the refugees. They had to go somewhere.

    And the mandate was not fair to the local Muslims and Christians; 700,000 of them were internally displaced in 1948 and 5 million of them are still waiting on the right to return. Not to mention all still under the "Occupation"
     
  10. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    Why should Americans and Canadians be any more obligated to accept them as refugees than Palestinians? Europeans, on the other hand...
     
  11. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Which does not make it any better. The reason the British handed it over to the UN is because they could not reach an equitable solution.
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Its not a question of obligation. The refugees were turned away. Or, the statue of liberty apparently has some fine print restrictions not visible to the rest of us.

    And if they were not obliged to help them then, they certainly find reasons for funding and arming them now.

    Israel has never been more than a pawn in the ME.
     
  13. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    After the war the U.S. took in more Jewish refugees than any other country in the world, outside of Israel.


    Eastern European Post WWII
    Jewish Immigrants Post World War II. The Holocaust .... As of 1997, two Jewish justices sat on the Supreme Court of the United States. Intergroup relations ...
    http://classes.maxwell.syr.edu/soc248/JewsPostWWII[1].html

    http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10007094


     
  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Sure that was post war guilt.
    What about Iraqi refugees now?


    http://www.cjr.org/behind_the_news/where_is_the_outrage_as_us_ref.php


    http://pressesc.com/01184343350_iraq_refugee_crisis

    Obviously liberating the Iraqis is fine as long as no personal responsibility or hardship is involved.
     
  15. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    That's why we're trying to liberate Iraq -- we want them to stay in Iraq ....so we wouldn't have to take any of "those" people as American refugees!!

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    Baron Max
     
  16. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Germans and Japanese cleaned up their own nations after the wars devastated them. Why can't Iraqis do the same? Are they, somehow, less able than Germans or Japanese?

    Baron Max
     
  17. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    I find it intresting that SAM wants to castigate the U.S. who had the largest Jewish community out side of Europe before WWII, and the Largest Jewish Comunity after WWII for not letting more Jewish Refugees into America.

    But then the;

    Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini
    In 1937 the Grand Mufti expressed his solidarity with Germany, asking the Nazi Third Reich to oppose establishment of a Jewish state, ...
    http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_grand_mufti.php

    and Hitler didn't leave may Jews alive now did they.
     
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Didn't help all the Jews who were returned to the gas chambers. Including children. During the holocaust.
     
  19. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Sure they can, but then how long was the US in Germany? In Japan? What was the reason for invading Iraq ?

    Germany and Japan had declared war on the US, Iraq was crippled under sanctions when the US went to "liberate them"

    If you break it, you own it.

    And Iraq will be hanging around the US neck for a long long time.
     
  20. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    While it's true that America hasn't always lived up to the ideals codified in the inscription on the Statue of Liberty, that doesn't add up to culpability for creation of the state of Israel. If America doesn't have an obligation to take the refugees, you can't say that they caused them to move somewhere else. You might as well say that the migration to Palestine was caused by Japan's refusal to take the refugees, or the fact that Antarctica is uninhabitable. The fact will remain, however, the the reason for the migration was oppression in Europe, and the reason they were able to move into Palestine was because of the British Mandate, which failed to deter or relocate them.


    Yeah, so? The alliance between Israel and America postdates the creation of Israel by decades, so you can't use this fact to intimate that America was secretly trying to establish a Jewish state and screw over the Palestinians back in the 1940's.
     
  21. quadraphonics Bloodthirsty Barbarian Valued Senior Member

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    As individuals, no, they're no less able. But as a polity, yes, there are several important differences between Iraq today and Germany/Japan after WWII. Most importantly, Germany and Japan had all of the fight stamped out of them prior to the occupation. The peoples' appetites for conflict were exhausted, and they existed in neighborhoods that were similarly wary of war. In Iraq, on the other hand, you have a heavily-armed populace with an extensive military which, rather than being destroyed in the invasion, melted back into the population. On top of that, Iraq is surrounded by highly militarized neighbors that are pretty much spoiling for conflict.
     
  22. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Perhaps not at the time; but they used them to overthrow Mossadegh, which was not long after the creation of Israel.

    Its hardly the kind of relationship that developed overnight.
     
  23. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    But they weren't displaced until Israel declared independence and the Arabs rose up in protest against that and a war started.
     

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