Changing tides of religion – Vedic perspective

One may wonder where the religions of Judaeo-Christianity, Islam and Buddhism fit into this contrast of Vedic culture and pandemonium. From the Vedic viewpoint, these are upadharmas ("near- dharmas ") that, by the grace of the Supreme Person, arose at different places and times during the same historical period that the worldwide systems of spiritual and material stability (varnasrama) faded into pandemonium. An upadharma leads people away from atheistic society toward a virtuous life of faith, submission before the holy, compassion for one's fellow beings, chastity, honesty, and so on.

Judaeo-Christianity, Islam and Buddhism began among minorities persecuted by an atheistic majority society. Moses and the Israelites were persecuted in Pharaonic Egypt. Jesus and his disciples were persecuted in the Roman Empire. Muhammed and his disciples were persecuted in Mecca. Buddha and his disciples were persecuted in Indian kingdoms where ritualistic animal slaughter was rampant. Thus each of these religions defines evil as the particular pattern of social suffering, injustice and degradation that its founder was moved to preached against. The faithful of each religion believe liberation to be deliverance from that pattern of evil.

However, rooted as each religion is in time, place and circumstance, their concepts of liberation gradually become irrelevant as the conditions of the mesocosm change. In India for example, Buddhism came to prominence as a reaction against anomalies in brahminical culture. The Buddha rejected the brahminism of his time because of its cruel animal sacrifice, caste prejudices and spiritual blindness. But when brahminical culture was reformed under the direction of the Vedantist Sankara, Buddhism lost its appeal (though it continued to spread outside India's borders to other Asian countries). As society in the Judaeo-Christian West developed economically and bread became abundant, many people gave up praying for their daily bread. Nowadays there are wealthy Christian countries in which 90 percent of the population sees no need to attend church with any regularly.

Thus whenever people think the benefit of religious virtue is liberation from a certain historical pattern of social ills, time's inevitable change of those social conditions spells the decline of that religion. Furthermore, when people take liberation to be nothing more than progress in social comforts, they abandon virtue altogether in the name of that so-called progress. In “The Anatomy of the Soul”, Anthony Kenny writes.

It is characteristic of our age to endeavor to replace virtues by technology. That is to say, wherever possible we strive to use methods of physical or social engineering to achieve goals which our ancestors thought attainable only by the training of character. Thus, we try so far as possible to make contraception take the place of chastity, and anaesthetics to take the place of fortitude ...


Questions? Comments? Corrections?

 

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achieve goals which our ancestors thought attainable only by the training of character

given that death, old age and disease are still as prominent as they were 2500 years ago when the greeks were establishing the foundations of what we now know of as science, its not clear where the advancement lies

what parts of the world have eradicated suffering?

hence its clear to any objective observer of our "real" intentions - colonial history indicates its not a new phenomena either ....

if a dog goes about its business on four legs and if I go about the same business on four wheels, where does the greater efficiency lie?
IOW, to get back to your original inquiry as to the purpose of chastity and other qualities, if I have the character of a dog, how will technical advances help improve the quality of my life or the lives of those I affect?

 

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To say the least, dogs are not famous for their ability to refrain from what their senses dictate, which makes their endeavors at conflict resolution somewhat dismal

whatever, but death old age and disease still have an unblemished track history

so you are arguing that technological advances have made us more jolly?

thus there is a distinction between being on the platform of a dog (annamoya - food based) and being on the platform of knowledge (jnanamoya) - in other words there are very good reasons why the visvarupa was revealed to arjuna, a steadfast nonenvious aryan, and not a dog

technological advancement doesn't change one's character

who's forcing?
the argument is that for a dog (annamoya platform), technological advancement doesn't change anything

 

and regardless of being in an air-conditioned environment or not, a dog will still act like a dog (ie fight with other dogs, display inappropriate hygiene, etc) - thus with or without technology, for any creature on the platform of annamoya (including dogs and dog-like humans) technological advancement amounts to squat.

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lol - hardly

 

Man have you got harsh judgements of animals. Dogs will overcome what their senses dictate, go into burning buildings and pull their 'masters' out by their shirts on occasion.

I have seen dogs move in between much larger dogs and break up fights - female dogs seem to do this more than males ones.

Once when I was in terrible emotional pain my dog came and rested against me for hours. Someone knocked on the front door and he resisted all his natural urges to fling himself toward the door and bark.

There are all sorts of instances of animals overcoming their survival instincts, feelings of extreme pain and exhaustion to help or reconnect to loved ones, animal and human.

That's all mundane and pretty common. then there are rarer animal individuals who have exhibited behavior and interests moving even deeper into areas we humans think we are so unique in.

When Elephants WEep, by Jeffrey Masson, details a wide range of such animals over a wide range of activities. It is a wonderful book.

You are not seeing animals. You are seeing your projections on them - projections shared by many who see them all as parts of monolithic categories - keep you from experiencing the wide variety of individuals and their true qualities. I speak from experience.

 

If religion is only a product of its times - it still wouldn't be here, would it? Jesus said the poor will always be with you - and so will his religion. By the way, Abraham began Judism - and Abraham was not being prosecuted - nor were his people.

 

Grantwanty

and compared to acting aggressively towards each other on sight, which do you think they are more famous for?

and compared to acting aggressively towards each other on sight, which do you think they are more famous for?

and compared to acting aggressively towards each other on sight, which do you think they are more famous for?

and in the case of dogs, compared to acting aggressively towards each other on sight, which do you think they are more famous for?

still it remains that animals are not the guru's of peace that we often idolize them to be

I am familiar with the book
there's even a chapter about debunking the ideas of animals (specifically dolphins) being gurus of peace

if you think dogs are the type of creatures you can rely on to drag one out of burning buildings, refrain from barking when someone approaches the door or refrain from fighting with each other in the presence of the opposite gender, I would argue that that is actually the case with yourself

every creature has some unique qualities we can learn from
in the case of a dog, it is their ability to serve a master without vast reservoirs of false ego and the ability to come to full awareness from slumber in a moment.
Trying to drive this a further mile by declaring them as fully capable of resisting the urges of their senses in all circumstances tends to go against the common experiences of practically everyone (there are very good reasons why dog obedience schools are so prolific)

 

KMguru

maybe we were too preoccupied ruminating on why the word "australia" sound so close to "astra"?

the notion of liberation is a central platform to many religions

as for determining the role vedic society played in ancient history, first you have to discern whether you want to take the view of popular empiricism (with its Eurocentric bias) or the view according to the Vedas themselves

 

why

how do you respond to

Nowadays there are wealthy Christian countries in which 90 percent of the population sees no need to attend church with any regularly.

so which communities of the world are involved in the practice of Abrahamic Judism, as opposed to the more contemporary revivals of Moses and Lord Jesus?

IOW its not so much an issue of what you used to be but what you are now that matters ....

 

Grantywanty
“

I never suggested that dogs are more prolific killers of their species - I suggested they are more prolific antagonists of their species - all that is required for one dog to start acting antagonistically towards another one they have never seen before is sight - and far from the opposite gender acting as a catalyst for peace, the common tendency is the opposite - in fact across the board of creatures in general, it is the mating season that brings out the tooth, claw or horn of animals that gives them the reputation of being dangerous or difficult to control.
Of course you can argue in the mood of lassie and rintin, but the fact remains that there are very good reasons why dog owners frequently keep their dogs on leashes when out in public and in some places even face fines for neglecting this etiquette.


“

the we is the collective view that animals are the spotless possessors of ideal characteristics
if you read that book you suggested I read, you would see that's not the case

You are acting as a guru by suggesting we idolize dogs

its not clear why the particular topic a metaphor draws on is somehow indicative of the value of the knowledge presented

since hate is also an emotion and an expression of desire, it appears your analysis of the situation is not correct
anyway, its the nature of emotions to be circular
eg its delightful to be delighted
its confusing to be confused
its distressing to be distressed
its boring to be bored
etc etc

lol - generally huh?

whatever - it just indicates your human capacity for duplicity will manifest in some other "secret" manner

even if that is the case (which I doubt) the stance of being anti-guru has gurus
(some people have written dozens of books why you shouldn't accept a guru)

so if we shouldn't accept gurus, does that mean I should reject your advice to get rid of gurus?

“

it usually indicates a person has read it (once about 8 years ago and a second or third time about 4 years ago)
Even though its been a while since I read it, I suggest you read the whole book rather than just the first few chapters

you would prefer a guru of maliciousness?

you wouldn't describe peacefulness as a "good" quality?

just like dogs are not what some people make them out to be

so would you describe your dog's behavior as unique or standard?

its clear that these are standard qualities of dogs - yes there are more, but they don't include the tendency to drag people out of burning buildings, refrain from barking when someone approaches the door or refrain from fighting with each other in the presence of the opposite gender

at least it has a more evidential basis than the crap argument you offered earlier

- and generally are caught later ordering their women followers to get fucked by them in secret.

lol- pots and kettles

do people generally put their dog on a leash when they go out in public areas where they are likely to encounter other people and dogs?
do some places generally impose fines for not adhering to this?
do people commonly take their dogs to obedience school in an effort to minimize this propensity?
etc etc

overcoming the imposition of the senses is tricky business for all embodied beings - still, compared to other living entities, fortunately we are quick learners when it comes to discerning suitable environments for clearing our bowels, understanding that just because we can see delicious food we cannot just go up and eat it (for instance, we may have to pay for it first) and a host of other social behaviours

take your dog without a leash in any big city and see what happens

and by default what would that make listening to you?
pure undifferentiated truth?
Something like a guru do doubt (why you tyrant of inner life and hater of desires and emotions, you!!)

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By far the best post I have read by you.
A truly unique and insightful point of view and I applaud and commend you for it.
Sincere thahks for the refreshing speculation.
I think you should build on it.
(I may just plagiarize it in the future

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Knowledge without love is dangerous, and that is what technology is. BUT, it is like money, it is power, it is not evil in itself, the evil is in the use you give to it.
As for tradicionalism is concerned, like celibacy and stuff; that practices should be seriously discredited, and people should stop viewing things with the tradicionalist way of "moral or inmoral". The very practice of celibacy is the root cause of prostitution and porno; celibacy is going against a natural innevitable urge. Instead of accepting this, people have been taught around the ages to repress the desire of sex, to hate each owns body, instead of following the way of the Tao (going with the flow, listen and love the body). Why do I say that celibate people hate their own bodies? Because the urge is there, and they don´t want it to be there, it becomes a serious issue, since the energy has no outlet, it becomes a perversion.

 

Really intriguing!
Post me all references you have kmguru, I'd love read.