On the Radar: The rise of atheism

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Tiassa, Sep 15, 2007.

  1. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Washington Post: Atheists increasing voice, numbers

    Jordan, Mary. "In Europe and U.S., Nonbelievers Are Increasingly Vocal". Washington Post, September 15, 2007; page A01. See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/14/AR2007091402501.html

    Salmon, Jacqueline L. "In America, Nonbelievers Find Strength in Numbers". Washington Post, September 15, 2007; page A14. See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/14/AR2007091402199.html

    The Washington Post runs two stories today regarding the state of atheism. Mary Jordan's front-page article considers the rising number of atheists in the United States and Europe:

    Jordan notes rising numbers of vocal atheists in Europe and the U.S., though she does not cite any figures; Dawkins' The God Delusion is considered a "surprise" bestseller. But one need not be a Washington Post reporter to notice the rising voice of atheism from college campus groups to atheistic blogs. People are also more willing to acknowledge their atheism publicly. While atheism is still a clear minority, their numbers are increasing in richer nations, Jordan reports.

    Perhaps Jordan has it wrong. Maybe some folks began questioning in the wake of 9/11, but if there is any catalyst in that tragedy for the rising voice, we cannot overlook the fact that it was a huge event, and atheists may well feel they cannot be silent any longer. Whether an issue of personal dignity--refusing to be silent--or a sentiment of personal duty, it may be more appropriate to say that 9/11 compelled atheists to speak out.

    Terry Sanderson of the National Secular Society, a British organization, also points to a backlash against European accommodation of its growing Muslim population, as well as fundamentalist Christian efforts against scientific research and civil rights. Sanderson noted that "There is a feeling that religion is being forced on an unwilling public, and now people are beginning to speak out against what they see as rising Islamic and Christian militancy."

    American Phil Zuckerman points out that secular groups are also finding traction in religious societies such as India, Israel, and Turkey.

    Jordan also makes note of a European organization, the Council of Ex-Muslims, a small but growing group originating in Germany. The article goes on to discuss British issues, including a watchdog group in Parliament, and also the growth of the British Humanist Association.

    • • •​

    Meanwhile, Jacqueline Salmon considers the rising number of atheists in the United States and Europe:

    According to Salmon, the religious polling firm Barna Group has determined that there are about five million American adults who consider themselves atheists; the number rises to twenty million if we include agnostics and those without religion. The larger number reflects a trend of people with more education and greater affluence; they are also more likely to be unmarried males. Six percent of people over sixty live without faith, but a full quarter of people between 18 and 22 claim to have no religion.

    The rising atheistic voice includes charter schools and overnight camps; the Council for Secular Humanism has seen a 40% budget increase in the last couple years.

    Recently, U.S. Representative Pete Stark (D-CA) acknowledged his atheism, and 2005 saw the advent of Godless Americans PAC, the first atheistic political action group.

    The faithful, however, look dubiously upon their godless neighbors; a 2006 nationwide poll by the University of Minnesota found that "Americans rated atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants and other minority groups in 'sharing their vision of American society'."

    • • •​

    Religious voices often consider such developments as hateful. I find it hard to sympathize. Given that for most Christians, the free-will decision to have faith in God and Jesus comes only after childhood indoctrination, and amid a lifetime of familial and social pressures bordering on emotional blackmail and psychological abuse. That people have faith is one thing, but it is entirely a different circumstance when that faith demands that others must submit. For many in the West, suicide bombers and al Qaeda are almost an afterthought; it was enough to hear their religious neighbors demand that equality is only achieved through supremacy, and that refusing discrimination is hateful. And in a time when "Islamism" is considered by many in the West to be a spiritual, as well as military, enemy, it should not be surprising if the godless wonder what the hell American Christians are doing giving aid and comfort to Islamist factions in Turkey in order to spread the Gospel Against Science. As the world's most influential religious tradition--e.g., Abramism°--seems more and more determined to thrust humanity into a new dark age, perhaps the godless will be the only ones among those nations who will fight for the future and prosperity of the human species.

    The rise of atheism is not, in fact hateful. It is an attempt to escape a world painted with hatred. As Emma Goldman wrote in 1910:

    ____________________

    Notes:

    ° world's most influential religious tradition: It is not that I would ignore my Hindu and Buddhist neighbors, but rather that slightly different considerations apply. While violence between Hindus and Sikhs is not enough for me to indict either faith, we cannot escape the fact that what will bring India greater prosperity are those things that originate and function outside the religious paradigm. As to the Buddhists, there are myriad considerations, and while I do not consider them harmful as I do the Abramists, I am hard-pressed to see their influence in terms comparable to the effects of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

    See Also:

    Goldman, Emma. "Anarchism: What it Really Stands For". Anarchism and Other Essays. New York: Mother Earth Publishing Association, 1910. See http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/anarchist_archives/goldman/aando/anarchism.html
     
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  3. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    I agree that this is more likely.

    But only people that are already non-religious would speak out to that.

    Sorry for bringing this up again, but how are atheists different from people with no religion ?

    I totally agree.
    As asinine as it is, people often confuse atheism with satanism.. they need to get themselves educated.
     
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Take me, for instance. I don't call myself an atheist because there is a definition of God that I accept. In the end, though the notion of God is inconsequential. I have no religion, but do not deny the existence of God. (I do, however, deny the existence of shoebox gods like the one in the Bible.)

    • • •​

    On Edit:

    I realize I'm probably not being fair to that 25% or so of religion-free respondents. It's more likely that they simply are trying to avoid religion and not worry one way or the other about whether or not God exists.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2007
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  7. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    I see, but what is your definition of religion then ?
     
  8. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    That's a bit tougher to lay out. The simplest version is that it is a system of interrelated superstitions, but in the near future I'll be posting a link about the relationship between religion and primates that complicates my definition. It's interesting that you ask; I just heard the bit last night, and haven't gone back to figure out what the hell it means.
     
  9. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    That link should be very interesting

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    The reason I asked is because I don't see how you can except 'a' notion God and yet have no religion. The other way around is plausible (religion without a God) in my opinion.
    Can you explain how you can hold a notion of God and yet have no religion ?
     
  10. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    I'll get back to you on that as soon as I can. To the one, I'm exhausted; it's 3:00 AM here, and tomorrow (today) I'm either drinking beer and watching college football or else traipsing down to the bookstore because Judy Blume is in town. Shite ... that's ten hours away.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2007
  11. ashura the Old Right Registered Senior Member

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    I don't believe deists are considered to have or follow a religion.

    EDIT: Quick wiki search led to some more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#Category_of_Belief
     
  12. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Ok Tiassa, have fun

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  13. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    You are talking about established religions. One can have his/her own personal religion though.
    One doesn't just believe in God. A person comes to believe in a God because of:
    - experience of certain things that, seemingly, can only be attributed to God,
    - 'logical' deduction ('how did the universe came to be?'),
    - indoctrination.
    Realizing that there is a God can't be the end of it, it has huge implications.
    I haven't thought this out all the way but it seems imperative that a person that believes in a God holds numerous other believes surrounding this God-figure. These make up a set of believes which can be held to be a religion in my opinion.
     
  14. Nickelodeon Banned Banned

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    More souls will be lost to lucifer.
     
  15. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member

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    Sure. When you explain how you can hold a notion of the Grim Reaper, without being dead.

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    Jk...just saying it's not necessary to subscribe to a following to academically understand what the foundation and tenets are.
     
  16. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    I am not either. Believing in God requires no such thing and subscribing to a religion doesn't either.
     
  17. whitewolf asleep under the juniper bush Registered Senior Member

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    For an example of a society which forcibly abolished all religion indiscriminately a century ago, look at former USSR. There are good and bad sides to it, so look carefully. Surely they are not tormented by the same things as American society, not kept back by the same silly boundaries; but lack of religion did not eliminate conflict, did not add "reasonableness" or orderliness. Are you sure you want America to head that way?

    While comparing, I see that faith isn't the problem. Faith in god is one thing, philosophy attached to it is another. Let people keep faith if they want, alter the philosophy, use gods to enforce the philosophy, and voila! the effort is less strenuous, the outcome is better.
     
  18. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member

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    Let me put it another way...I personally was raised in a RC family, thus I was 'indoctrinated' with their notion of God. I know better now, but I cannot unlearn what I already remember. So I still have a notion of what 'God' is (popularly) supposed to be...yet I subscribe to no religion.
     
  19. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe I worded it wrong. I reacted to this post of Tiassa:
    Tiassa has no religion but still accepts God.
     
  20. whitewolf asleep under the juniper bush Registered Senior Member

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    Being raised in a religious society (or family) does not compel you to take up the same faith nowadays, but the morals and the ways of action are enforced on you. U.S. is a puritan society through and through, and the atheists carry on relatively the same values as theists. [Edit: that's my theory.]
     
  21. Enterprise-D I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Registered Senior Member

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    I had a feeling I missed something in the exchange

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  22. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    I understand, but do those values qualify as a religion ? Personally, I don't think so. What are your views on this ?
     
  23. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    LOL Tiassa used a lot of different words to try to say the same thing, I adopted the wrong one

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