The Biggest-Battle Imaginable: The Gita's Bloodbath at Kurukshetra.

Discussion in 'Eastern Philosophy' started by genep, Sep 12, 2007.

  1. genep Guest

    The Biggest-Battle Imaginable:
    The Gita's Bloodbath at Kurukshetra.
    After five decades of addictive seeking and searching I finally read the Bhagavad Gita, about seven years ago. When I read the beginning of the Bhagavad Gita tears of joy told me that my seeking and searching was finally over. These tears of joy made the Bhagavad Gita by far the most significant piece of literature in the history of mankind.
    The movie Fight Club would years later very clearly and obviously explain to me why the Bhagavad Gita was the most significant piece of scripture, literature and poetry in the history of mankind.

    But for seven years there was something that simply did not make sense in the Epic story of the Gita. The Bhagavad Gita was ALL ABOUT an EPIC Bloodbath between relatives, friends and teachers, intellectuals and theologians slaughtering each other. And for seven years this Epic slaughter did not make sense.
    The more I tried to understand this Bloodbath the more convinced I became that all the experts and intellectuals who twist words and torture text to understand the Gita -- all these intellectuals and pundits of theology and Advaita -- all they are doing is moving their intellectual shit from one heap to another JUST so they can AVOID the Epic bloodbath at Kurukshetra – that is so fundamental to the Gita that without this Epic-bloodbath the Gita is no better than verbal-garbage, bullshit.

    The Gita appears to be the foundation of “love” for many Christians and most devout Hindus and Buddhists: but the Battle of Kurukshetra cannot make any sense to them – EVEN IF THE BATTLE IS “INSIDE” and so they have to literally ignore this very-very OUTSIDE battle. This is because Buddhism and Hinduism is based on an unconditional love: an unconditional love that most orthodox Christians, Muslims and especially Jews will NEVER EVER understand because it is so universal that it not only includes animals but even insects.
    Devout Hindus and Buddhists not only appear to love all humans but also ALL animals and ALL insects so much so that for them to kill or even injure an insect would be evil, and to kill or injure another human would be simply beyond belief... and YET the Bhagavad Gita -- the mother and father of all scriptures and the foundation of Buddhism and Hinduism -- is all about not just a bloodbath but an Epic-bloodbath of not insects nor animals, and not about the bloodbath of enemies but a bloodbath of relatives, friends, teachers and theologians... and it is not an ordinary bloodbath but a bloodbath of ruthless and reckless abandon of relatives, friends, teachers and theologians, AND THEN SOME: the Pupil, Devote/Seeker has no choice but to fight this Epic bloodbath; AND then a lot-lot more: winning and losing makes NO difference. This “winning and losing makes no difference” tells us everything there is not know about the Biggest-Battle of the Bhagavad Gita.

    It would take a prophetic divorce to explain why the bloodbath at Kurukshetra of relatives, friends, teachers and theologians HAD TO BE not only FOUGHT, but fought OUTSIDE with this ruthless and reckless abandon... a fight in which winning and losing, even living or dying, simply cannot matter.
    The prophet for this divorce was one of the most saintly men I have met: my father-in-law Bernard. The poetic heartfelt stories he wrote about his wife, Charlotte, after she died, would be also prophetic for the exact same love I have for his daughter, Mary.
    The Epic and futile fight to keep a marriage appearing real.

    My marriage was a good marriage by all standards.
    The standard I used to measure the wellness of my marriage over the decades has always been my wife's, Mary's, father and mother, Bernard and Charlotte.
    Over the decades I thought that my marriage was as good as -- if not better than -- the marriage of Mary's parents.
    I have no doubt that I have as much, if not more, love and respect and admiration for Mary as Mary's father, Bernard, had for his wife Charlotte.
    Over the decades I realized that often Mary was like her mother who often did not appear happy. I thought Charlotte's unhappiness had to do with her medications and their hangovers, and afternoon drinking and its hangover. Charlotte, like Mary and Bernard, also had significant problems with insomnia that can only compound all the difficulties and pains of life with sleeping pills and their limitless numbers and types of hangovers.
    Over the decades I observed that Mary was often unhappy but I knew that there was nothing I could do to make her happy. Unlike her mother, Mary did not drink or take medications which are mostly worse than drugs. And yet I could not make her happy. Indeed, often the more I tried to make her happy the more it seemed to upset her. So much so that when I tried to help her do work or chores she mostly rejected me, sometimes as if I had an infection or a cancer. So I learned to live with her unhappiness just like I figured Bernard learned to live with Charlotte's unhappiness.
    Since I quite work -- to get out of the MD cesspool of drugs and mutilations we call “Medicine” -- my wife's unhappiness only got worse. If I thought that getting a job would make her happy I would have gotten a job just to make Mary happy. But I was certain that a job would make no difference because when I was working it did not make her happy, only me unhappy.
    So using Mary's parent's marriage as a barometer: I had a good if not better marriage than they did; especially when I take into consideration my two wonderful and loving children that of all of my wife's family and my family ONLY Bernard and my brother Paul could match in love and pure spirituality.
    I am very very content and grateful to be where I am today. I still feel like the luckiest person in the universe ... mostly because all my life miracles always appear to turn the worst things into the best things. And Physics alone dictates that this divorce cannot be any different. My love and admiration for Mary cannot change.. somehow I feel that she will be happier without me than with me, I certainly hope so... she does not need me to make her unhappy.
    I had a good marriage that my son and daughter made wonderful, far far beyond my widest dreams. So much so that only an Epic battle, a verbal-bloodbath of Epic proportions, between siblings could make the difference between my failed marriage and the very successful death-does-depart marriage of Mary's parents.
    The only difference between Bernard's marriage and mine:
    Bernard did NOT have two arrogant and intellectually pit-bull EGOs,
    a brother and sister,
    to go behind his back with a fundamental
    and flagrant insane self-righteous and pit-bull conviction
    to convince Charlotte to leave Bernard
    because he had to be responsible for all her
    unhappiness, suffering and insomnia.​
    This verbal-battle of Epic proportions I had NO-CHOICE but FIGHT with my brother and sister to keep my marriage appearing “real” became so ruthless and desperate that it echoed the fight Arjuna had NO-choice but to fight in the Bhagavad Gita – the Battle or bloodbath of friends, family and teachers at Kurukshetra.
    I lost the battle, lost my marriage, but just like Krishna says: it makes no difference. It makes no difference if this battle is won or lost.

    ONLY when I compared this utterly ruthless and NO-choice verbal-battle between siblings to the Epic and no-choice battle in the Bhagavad Gita did Krishna's words explode into a Universe-shattering significance.
    Suddenly, literally everything about this EPIC battle at Kurukshetra all fell into place. Because it was the Biggest-Battle imaginable because it was literally the battle of SELF-realization.
    This Biggest-Battle of SELF-Realization is what the Bhagavad Gita is all about. The most putrid bullshit the devil needs to masquerade as god is for academic and religious and scientific EGOs to convince us that the biggest-battle of universe-vanishing proportions of the Gita – the Battle at Kurukshetra – is not outside but “inside.”
    To the Pupil, Student, “the Seeker of the SELF-Realization,” the word EVIL has nothing to do with crime, or atrocities nor perversions.
    To the seeker of SELF-Realization EVIL has to be Everything and Anything, and Anyone, especially gods, that try to make the Universe appear “real” when it has to be the fiction or hallucination of SELF.

    So for the Seeker to be SELF-Realized he has to fight the BIGGEST-BATTLE imaginable and literally slaughter all this EVIL that has to include every EGO that personifies this EVIL that tries to make the Universe appear “real,” -- thus, just like Krishna tells us: this Biggest-Battle is all about slaughtering all the religious and academic and scientific EGOS who must fight and die just to keep their EGO alive by making their Universe appearing “real”... the Biggest-Battle is the Biggest because it includes not only all EGOs but also the personification of this EVIL, the devils and demons that have to masquerade as God just to keep their Universe appearing “real” when it has to be the SELF's fiction, thoughts, hallucination.

    That this EPIC Battle is “inside” is the most flagrant and utter bullshit EGOS have to keep shoveling from one heap onto another because “inside” is the SELF that no more can fight or be fought than a dream can destroy itself.

    So this biggest-battle has to not only to be fought “outside” but it literally has to destroy the illusion that there is an outside and this IS/leads-to SELF-Realization – the Biggest-Battle in which winning or losing makes no difference .. because in the Fiction of SELF, which we call “reality,” in this fiction, Nothing, there is nothing to win or lose.
    There is no battle that can be greater than this EPIC Biggest-Battle of universe-shattering proportions, the Gita's Kurukshetra, and there is only one battle that can be Equal to this EPIC battle: a battle in which the Universe is annihilated. The annihilation of the universe would equal the EPIC biggest-battle of the Gita because it would also lead to the same SELF-Realization.
    To understand the magnitude and significance of this Biggest-Battle at Kurukshetra we have to go back literally thousands of years, long before religions twisted words and tortured text to materialize devils so that they could then masquerade as gods. And it was thousands of years before dictionaries organized the writing that make matter APPEAR real.
    At the time the Gita appeared to come to life, thousands of years ago (before science materialized the universe with its numbers and formulas even more than religions could with their twisted-words and tortured-text called scriptures) the Battle at Kurukshetra was the biggest and thus the most Epic battle the SELF-Realized story-tellers could imagine. If the same Story-tellers were around today they would take this Epic battle out into today's Universe to make it as big as the Universe and thus universe-shattering: THAT IS HOW BIG THIS biggest-battle at Kurukshetra has to be: anything less than this universe-shattering battle and the Bhagavad Gita can only compound the twisted-words and tortured text that devils need to masquerade as religion's God.

    The Bhagavad Gita is about a Guru, Krishna, and his “Pupil” Arjuna. Back then there were no religions to tell us that a god had to be different to a guru. Today, however, the instant a guru turns into one of today's gods is the instant the Gita becomes no better than some sort of verbal-garbage, bullshit, that EGOs we call experts have to shovel from one heap onto another just to keep their universe appearing “real.”

    Krishna is the Guru “inside,” the SELF, that projects itself into the imaginary outside to tell the Seeker that he has NO-choice but to fight this Biggest-Battle, EPIC battle. The winning or losing this EPIC battle makes no difference. The more ruthless the battle the bigger the bloodbath the better ... and friends, relatives and teachers .. it makes no difference how many friends relative, teachers are slaughtered in this bloodbath ... so much so that this Epic-battle is the personification of destroying everything especially friends, relatives and teachers that have been conditioned to fight for the personification of EVIL, the devil, that masquerades as God -- ALIAS Science -- to make matter appear “real.”
    Krishna is a Guru who is aware that the material-world, today's universe, is not only an illusion but fiction, thoughts – the exact same thoughts that make up our dreams, the exact same thoughts that make our dreams appear real. Just like atoms and molecules are the building blocks of all “matter,” the Universe, so too the thoughts that make up our dreams are the EXACT same thoughts that make life, Universe, appear “real.” Thus Physics is just the study of thoughts that masquerade as particles/waves.
    Krishna is a SELF-Realized Guru because he is Aware that the Universe is just a hallucination of the SELF. That is the one and only meaning of the word: SELF-Realization: the Awareness that the Universe is the fiction, thoughts, the hallucination of SELF.

    For the Pupil, Seeker, to realize this Illusion, Maya, Lila, he has to fight to destroy the appearance of matter, the personification of EVIL, Devil, and there is no greater battle than to literally destroy/slaughter the religious, academic and scientific EGOs who are conditioned like Pavlov's dogs to fight and die to keep their EGOs alive by trying to make their Universe/religions/gods appear “real.” And it makes no difference in the Biggest-Battle if we fight to make the appearance of matter real or if we fight on the opposite-side that destroys this appearance of matter to be SELF-realized: because the whole battle is just appearance, and so winning or losing cannot matter – because it is all illusion, fiction: a hallucination of SELF.

    In this Biggest of Battles education and religious beliefs must be destroyed ruthlessly because education is a myth and the word “conditioning” is the rule – the exact same conditioning a dog needs to salivate to the sound of a bell. In ALL Battles, even the Biggest-Battle, conditioning and NOT the myths of learning and wisdom determines who fights for the EGOS who try to make matter appear “real,” and who fights to destroy these EGOs to be SELF-realized.
    This Biggest-of-Battles, the Epic-battle/bloodbath for SELF-Realization, is thus so universe-shatteringly monumental that any concern for friends, family and teachers, society and religions becomes meaningless. It is a slaughter with reckless and ruthless abandon of all the EGOS that personify the word EVIL because they try to make matter appear to matter, and that includes all the Devils who twist-words and torture-text into the scriptures that make them masquerade as God, and it includes all the twisted numbers and formulas academics/science uses to make matter appear even more real than devils need to masquerade as God.
    -- Really Reality.
     
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  3. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    On one side we have genep

    and on the other we have

    “When I read the Bhagavad-Gita and reflect about how God created this universe everything else seems so superfluous.” ~ Albert Einstein

    “The Bhagavad-Gita has a profound influence on the spirit of mankind by its devotion to God which is manifested by actions.” ~ Dr. Albert Schweizer

    “The Bhagavad-Gita is the most systematic statement of spiritual evolution of endowing value to mankind. It is one of the most clear and comprehensive summaries of perennial philosophy ever revealed; hence its enduring value is subject not only to India but to all of humanity.”
    ~ Aldous Huxley

    “In the morning I bathe my intellect in the stupendous and cosmogonical philosophy of the Bhagavad-Gita, in comparison with which our modern world and its literature seems puny and trivial.” ~ Henry David Thoreau

    “The marvel of the Bhagavad-Gita is its truly beautiful revelation of life’s wisdom which enables philosophy to blossom into religion.” ~ Herman Hesse

    “When doubts haunt me, when disappointments stare me in the face, and I see not one ray of hope on the horizon, I turn to Bhagavad-Gita and find a verse to comfort me; and I immediately begin to smile in the midst of overwhelming sorrow. Those who meditate on the Gita will derive fresh joy and new meanings from it every day.”
    ~ Mahatma Gandhi

    “I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavad-Gita. It was the first of books; it was as if an empire spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy, but large, serene, consistent, the voice of an old intelligence which in another age and climate had pondered and thus disposed of the same questions which exercise us.”
    ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

    “In order to approach a creation as sublime as the Bhagavad-Gita with full understanding it is necessary to attune our soul to it.” ~ Rudolph Steiner

    “From a clear knowledge of the Bhagavad-Gita all the goals of human existence become fulfilled. Bhagavad-Gita is the manifest quintessence of all the teachings of the Vedic scriptures.” ~ Adi Sankara


    Draw your own conclusions .....
     
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  5. EmptyForceOfChi Banned Banned

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    i will read the gita in a few years, when i finish reading geneps post.


    peace.
     
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  7. Exhumed Self ******. Registered Senior Member

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    Genep's post reminded me of the Peter Brooke's version of the Mahabharata when before the battle begins, when the army is lined up, Krishna goes in and tells Arjuna the ENTIRE Bhagavad Gita to Arjuna, and Duryodhana is like "HOW LONG MUST WE WAIT!"

    (I'll make an on topic reply tommorow hopefully when I have time to read ;o)
     
  8. genep Guest

    Educated Idiots

    the Epic bloodbath at Kurukshetra is all about slaughtering everything, like the Vedic scriptures, and all the educated idiots like Albert Einstein -- who had not a clue about what he uncovered, Relativity -- and Dr. Albert Schweizer, Aldous Huxley, Henry David Thoreau, Mahatma Gandhi -- who really had no clue what this Epic bloodbath was all about -- and Adi Sankara to Realize that the Universe is what Krishna tells Arjuna it is: all fiction, thoughts -- a hallucination of SELF.

    -- Really
     
  9. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    once again, on one side we have genep

    and on the other we have Albert Einstein, Thoreau, etc


    ....... once again,

    draw your own conclusions .....

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  10. Grantywanty Registered Senior Member

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    1,888
    You assumption is that we should be swayed by one authority or a group of authorities.

    Rather than say, think and experience and intuition and feel for ourselves. A few hundred years ago just about every famous thinker in Europe was Christian. This did not make Christianity right. Or make people who maintained, for example, nature-based religious beliefs that were vastly more respectful of women, and female energy, than Christianity somehow wrong.

    I can imagine someone using your logic and making a list of famous philosophers, painters, theologists, poets and saying 'Shall we believe this heathen, or the great Christian minds.'
     
  11. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    if the foundation for my argument is that Einstein doesn't have a clue about reality (unlike me) and Huxley/Thoreu/etc don't know the first thing about literature/systems of value (unlike me) it simply becomes a wager of my authority vs their authority (that is stacked against me)

    As it stands, genep has one opinion about the Bhagavad-gita and personalities famous for their intellectual prowess have another .....
     
  12. Exhumed Self ******. Registered Senior Member

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    Your quotes weren't really in depth. Can't even tell if they've even read the whole thing. Besides, those people aren't always right.
     
  13. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    and what, by comparison, genep's contribution is?
     
  14. Grantywanty Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,888

    I disagree. I also think it is a poor approach, encouraging people to tally experts. What happens if someone else comes back with a list of brainy athiests, all Nobel Prize winners in a variety of categories including literature?
    1) that means very little
    2) it's an impovrished way to have a discussion - much better is to use their ideas or ideas of your own and relate them to experience itself, experiences you've had or we've all had. Or to find flaws in his argument. They days have long passed when spitting out a list of experts should convince anyone of anything. Especially on a topic like this one. We could all just stand around holding up cards with experts on them like we were ciphers. (which is a lot of what happens out there)
     
  15. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    suppose an atheist made great advancements in the field of chemistry - you run into difficulty if you want to pitch your authority in chemistry against his - and the difficulty becomes more pronounced when there is a whole body of support that surrounds the issue at hand - for instance if I posted something about how the word cadmium is similar to the word cadbury and want on a whole rant about chocolate, even a person vaguely familiar with chemistry can understand that I have missed the point of chemistry


    nevertheless it remains that despite all people having opinions, not all opinions are valid (for instance the opinion that there is an inextricable link between cadmium and cadbury is not particularly pertinent, at least in the field of chemistry)
     
  16. Grantywanty Registered Senior Member

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    1,888
    You made a list including a novelist, a physicist, a philosopher, etc.
    I could come up with a list of names of people who are famous in these very fields and who disagree with these people.
    I think it´s encouraging a kind of no brain no intution position by saying these experts say you are wrong so you are wrong, especially when there are other experts who disagree. Coberst does this all the time. It´s lazy and really goes against the idea of a forum. IN fact I find it odd that you really want to hold this point. Generally you engage people in dialogue, respond point for point, come from your own experiences, interact with other people´s ideas. However much we may disagree around certain points we seem to agree about the best use of a forum. Yet, here you are digging in an defending what seems to me a weak use of experts as a way of saying ´shut up you must be wrong´rather than getting in there like you usually do.
    I´ve made my point and you´ll do whatever you do.
    take care.
     
  17. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    responding point for point is only of value if the discussion is on a certain level of credibility - anyone familiar with the Bhagavad-gita and the further works of the vedas that contextualize it(eg Maha Bharata, Puranas, vedanta sutra, Upanisads, etc) can understand where genep is at, much like a person arguing that cadbury is inextricably linked to cadmium doesn't warrant for much of a discussion in regards to chemistry
     

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