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Thread: are counter-rotating magnets DANGEROUS?

  1. #1
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    are counter-rotating magnets DANGEROUS?

    Hello good folks!

    I read somewere that counter-rotating magnets can be Ultra dangerous!!!

    becauze of the electromagnetic radiation that is coming from it!!!!!!??
    Now i really dont know if it is true or not , so would you tell me, shouldnt I experiment with magnets in this case?

    thanx alot

    god bless
    kalle

  2. #2
    counter rotating magnets, dangerous?
    suuuuuuure.

  3. #3
    Heute der Enteteich... Oli's Avatar
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    They can wipe your ATM card clean: that's dangerous.
    I've had it done...

  4. #4
    Be kind to yourself always. cosmictraveler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IamI View Post
    Hello good folks!

    I read somewere that counter-rotating magnets can be Ultra dangerous!!!

    becauze of the electromagnetic radiation that is coming from it!!!!!!??
    Now i really dont know if it is true or not , so would you tell me, shouldnt I experiment with magnets in this case?

    thanx alot

    god bless
    kalle


    Could you provide where you read about this ?

  5. #5
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    okey I dont believe either but lots of sites mentions that..

    too many saying that moving magnetic fields ar making dangerous radiation,

    for exempel the last saurce I remember:
    from: http : //bob-dratch.org/
    "Kosol also by creating a moving magnetic field, would create besides the intense moving "static" scalar component, EM flux radiation. I would suggest for those experimenting with the Kosol experiments, that they have radiation and EM spectrum analyzers to see what type and spectrum of interferences are being generated. In any such SCALAR APPARATUS, the same ultra-dangerous considerations for the overall system and the operator have to be considered when powering up such a system and operating it"


    is supposed to mean it is dangerous to the health?

    and yeah, i know that magnets WITHOUT moving, will erase your cards, hard drive, etc..


    kalle

  6. #6
    Heute der Enteteich... Oli's Avatar
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    That explains it: when you come across a site that "explains" "scalar energy" (especially weapons) - run.
    Woowoo stuff, avoid it.

  7. #7
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    yes yes, I know, maybe that waas a bad example as a site, however I am intersted in knowing the claimed dangers pure counter rotating magnets and NOT the antigravity or weapons
    kalle

  8. #8
    paradox generator
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    There's no danger to yourself short of having your ATM card wiped. No other danger is possible.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by IamI View Post
    Hello good folks!

    I read somewere that counter-rotating magnets can be Ultra dangerous!!!

    becauze of the electromagnetic radiation that is coming from it!!!!!!??
    Now i really dont know if it is true or not , so would you tell me, shouldnt I experiment with magnets in this case?

    thanx alot

    god bless
    kalle
    As Oli said, there's nothing at all to it. For one thing rotating OR counter-rotating magnets do NOT create an EMF field - that's pure bunk. The only thing a magnet can produce is a magentic field - no electrical component present.

    Just keep things affected by magnetic fields away and there's no possible harm that could caused. Period.

  10. #10
    Read-Only:

    I think you're wrong. A rotating magnet does indeed produce electromagnetic waves, since a changing magnetic field induces an electric field and vice-versa.

    Rotating an average bar magnet won't create any dangerous EM radiation, but it will produce EM waves. Those waves will be in the far infra-red region, unless you rotate the magnet extremely fast.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by James R View Post
    Read-Only:

    I think you're wrong. A rotating magnet does indeed produce electromagnetic waves, since a changing magnetic field induces an electric field and vice-versa.

    Rotating an average bar magnet won't create any dangerous EM radiation, but it will produce EM waves. Those waves will be in the far infra-red region, unless you rotate the magnet extremely fast.
    Really? Induces a field in what, James? Unless you've placed a conductor very close to the magnet, there's nothing to induce a current in, ergo - no EM field. None at all.

    On top of all that (if you think you can possibly find a way to defeat basic physics) there's never been any solid evidence that there's such a thing as a dangerous EM field at the kind of frequency a rotating magnet would produce. Despite all the claims about power lines, cell phones, whatever - not a single major study has found a correlation. Canada did a BIG study involving thousands of people some years back (and the haven't been the only ones) - and still nothing has been found.

    I grant you that you certainly know your ethics - that post of your in the "looting" thread was excellent - but you seem to come up a bit short in the EM physics arena. No slander intended in the least, but none of us can be good at everything.

  12. #12
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    Rotate a permanent magnet through any axis but straight through the poles and it will produce a changing magnetic field, thus EM radiation. If you have two that are near each other rotating opposite directions they will interact and that is a whole new question. Interactions between the fields occur much faster than the speed at which the magnets rotate.

    There is always an electrical component to any electromagnetic field, and all magnetic fields are electromagnetic. A magnetic field is what exists at right angles to an electrical field. In permanent magnets it is the electrons that orbit the nuclei of the magnetized material.

    And Read-Only, you seem blissfully unaware of the study a year or so ago that showed that rats got holes in their brains from cell-phone radiation.

    http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20030222/fob1.asp

    You know they would accept that evidence was conclusive if it was about marijuana.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetaKron View Post
    Rotate a permanent magnet through any axis but straight through the poles and it will produce a changing magnetic field, thus EM radiation. If you have two that are near each other rotating opposite directions they will interact and that is a whole new question. Interactions between the fields occur much faster than the speed at which the magnets rotate.

    There is always an electrical component to any electromagnetic field, and all magnetic fields are electromagnetic. A magnetic field is what exists at right angles to an electrical field. In permanent magnets it is the electrons that orbit the nuclei of the magnetized material.
    Wrong again. Magnetic (H fields) certainly DO exist with NO electrical (E field) component. Go and recheck your basics on magnetism and electricity again. Evidently you didn't get it right the first time or else you've forgotten.

    And Read-Only, you seem blissfully unaware of the study a year or so ago that showed that rats got holes in their brains from cell-phone radiation.

    http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20030222/fob1.asp

    You know they would accept that evidence was conclusive if it was about marijuana.
    It just so happens that I was already aware of that study. And it wasn't conclusive because there's no evidence so far that the same could even occur in humans. For one thing, placing a microwave source right next to a tiny adolescent rat's brain is vastly different than doing the same with a person.

    Besides all that, even assuming there IS a conductor near the rotating magnets to create a current in and therefore produce EM waves, they would be FAR below the microwave band in frequency. Why don't you try rotating a magnet at MHz and tell us what happens, eh?

  14. #14
    Read-Only:

    Quote Originally Posted by Read-Only View Post
    Really? Induces a field in what, James?
    In the space/air around the magnet.

    Electric fields can exist even in vacuum.

    Remember Faraday's law of induction?

    Unless you've placed a conductor very close to the magnet, there's nothing to induce a current in, ergo - no EM field. None at all.
    That's completely incorrect. No conductor is needed for an electric field to exist. For example, consider the static electric field in the vicinity of a point charge.

    On top of all that (if you think you can possibly find a way to defeat basic physics) there's never been any solid evidence that there's such a thing as a dangerous EM field at the kind of frequency a rotating magnet would produce.
    That's what I said. So, we agree on that point.

    Despite all the claims about power lines, cell phones, whatever - not a single major study has found a correlation. Canada did a BIG study involving thousands of people some years back (and the haven't been the only ones) - and still nothing has been found.
    Yes. You are correct.

    I grant you that you certainly know your ethics - that post of your in the "looting" thread was excellent - but you seem to come up a bit short in the EM physics arena. No slander intended in the least, but none of us can be good at everything.
    I find this quite amusing. You really should check your facts before making yourself look silly like this.

    And you're on the right track with a lot of things. You've just obviously forgotten some basic electromagnetism.


    MetaKron:

    There is always an electrical component to any electromagnetic field, and all magnetic fields are electromagnetic. A magnetic field is what exists at right angles to an electrical field.
    Read-Only is right on his response to this. It is certainly possible to have a pure magnetic field. The field produced outside a fridge magnet is a good example.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by James R View Post
    Read-Only:



    In the space/air around the magnet.

    Electric fields can exist even in vacuum.

    Remember Faraday's law of induction?
    No. We're taking about creating EM radiation (remember?) - and for that to occur you MUST have an electric current flowing through a conductor. Space/air and a vacuum won't cut it for that to happen. Sorry. Following the logic as you have presented it, every single magnet in existance - moving or not - would be sending out EM waves. That just isn't so. And you made it clear that you DO understand that in your response to Metakron.



    That's completely incorrect. No conductor is needed for an electric field to exist. For example, consider the static electric field in the vicinity of a point charge.
    Once again - we're talking about generating EM fields which contain both M and E fields, not static charges. Point charge or otherwise. Let me state it once again: in order to generate EM radiation, you MUST have current flowing through a conductor.

    I find this quite amusing. You really should check your facts before making yourself look silly like this.

    And you're on the right track with a lot of things. You've just obviously forgotten some basic electromagnetism.
    Not half as amusing as I'm starting to find it. Seems you are the one who needs a refreshing on the basics. Or perhaps you've discovered some novel new way of generating EM waves without an active electric current? If so, please, please share it with us!

  16. #16
    Read-Only:

    Quote Originally Posted by Read-Only View Post
    No. We're taking about creating EM radiation (remember?) - and for that to occur you MUST have an electric current flowing through a conductor. Space/air and a vacuum won't cut it for that to happen.
    All that is needed to produce an electric field in a region of space is a changing magnetic field in that region. Agree? (This seems to be the sticking point here.)

    If you agree, then you should also agree that a rotating magnet will do the trick nicely.

    And all that is needed to produce a magnetic field in a region of space is to have a changing electric field in that region.

    Once you have both changing magnetic fields and changing electric fields in a region of space, you have electromagnetic waves. They are self-reinforcing and self-propagating.

    Sorry. Following the logic as you have presented it, every single magnet in existance - moving or not - would be sending out EM waves.
    No. Only a moving magnet, which produces a changing magnetic field.

    You are aware of Faraday's law, right? Just checking.

    Let me state it once again: in order to generate EM radiation, you MUST have current flowing through a conductor.
    No. It's sufficient, but not necessary. That's just the most common way to go about it if you want to produce EM radiation deliberately, because its easier in practice. It's easier to move charge around than it is to move magnets around. But either way will work.

    Not half as amusing as I'm starting to find it. Seems you are the one who needs a refreshing on the basics.
    I'm sure we'll get there eventually. We're both rational people.

    Or perhaps you've discovered some novel new way of generating EM waves without an active electric current? If so, please, please share it with us!
    I already did. Just spin a magnet!

    Not that that's very novel. It has been well understood since about 1890, or perhaps a bit before that.

    Of course, we can quibble about permanent magnetism being caused by atomic currents, if you like...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by James R View Post
    Read-Only:



    All that is needed to produce an electric field in a region of space is a changing magnetic field in that region. Agree? (This seems to be the sticking point here.)

    If you agree, then you should also agree that a rotating magnet will do the trick nicely.

    And all that is needed to produce a magnetic field in a region of space is to have a changing electric field in that region.

    Once you have both changing magnetic fields and changing electric fields in a region of space, you have electromagnetic waves. They are self-reinforcing and self-propagating.



    No. Only a moving magnet, which produces a changing magnetic field.

    You are aware of Faraday's law, right? Just checking.
    Yes, I remember Faraday and the rest of those old guys and their respective laws very well. So, for the moment, let's concentrate on Faraday before trying to move on. In every single instance, Faraday included an electrical conductor (usually a coil, but a simple wire works also) for a current to flow in to produce the electrical part of an electromagnetic field. Move the magnet - fine. Move the wire - fine. But neither air, vacuum or whatever will substitute for the conductor.

    Place the world's largest, most powerful magnet on a car and drive on the open road in the desert of Arizona. Unless you come within range of something that will conduct electricity, all you have is a big moving moving magnet - no EM radiation. Even the metal of the car doesn't matter (except for road/engine vibration) because it's stationary with respect to the magnet and no flux lines are being cut by it.

    Rebuttal?

  18. #18
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    hehe in th efirsts post , it was like no no chans.. then mmmyeaah.. electricity is going on,, then after some posts,... emf radiation is real,,, a rat got holes in the brain by radiation. hmmm and some conflicts


    let me tell you just that i know that moving currnet is magnetic and moving magnetic is current.. so in the ned, is it dangerous if conter rotating neodym magnets(yes, repelling magnets rotating) were spun say 600 rpm, would it hur somehow humans.. from the EMF radiation, I am asking this since I KNOW that moving magnets poduce electricty .. so te question is simple how much electriciy . will be produced or did you say that it is no harm since I need a conducter sooo close to capture the current from magnets?

    shouldnt I care for the "dangerous current and radiation"?

    god bless
    kalle

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Read-Only View Post
    Yes, I remember Faraday and the rest of those old guys and their respective laws very well. So, for the moment, let's concentrate on Faraday before trying to move on. In every single instance, Faraday included an electrical conductor (usually a coil, but a simple wire works also) for a current to flow in to produce the electrical part of an electromagnetic field. Move the magnet - fine. Move the wire - fine. But neither air, vacuum or whatever will substitute for the conductor.

    Place the world's largest, most powerful magnet on a car and drive on the open road in the desert of Arizona. Unless you come within range of something that will conduct electricity, all you have is a big moving moving magnet - no EM radiation. Even the metal of the car doesn't matter (except for road/engine vibration) because it's stationary with respect to the magnet and no flux lines are being cut by it.

    Rebuttal?
    Sorry Read-Only, James is right. A time variant B field will create a E field. Current flow isn't needed for an E/M wave because of the discovery by Maxwell that a time variant E field at a point is equivalent to a current density. It's called the 'displacement current'.

    Not that magnets make good E/M emitters. It's hard to get the magnetic field to change fast enough to emit significant e/m, among other things.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinalm View Post
    Sorry Read-Only, James is right. A time variant B field will create a E field. Current flow isn't needed for an E/M wave because of the discovery by Maxwell that a time variant E field at a point is equivalent to a current density. It's called the 'displacement current'.

    Not that magnets make good E/M emitters. It's hard to get the magnetic field to change fast enough to emit significant e/m, among other things.
    Now that I can accept. Thank you, Kevin. But I'd still like to see Metakron physically spin those magnets fast enough to produce EM radiation in the microwave band.

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