Will Bush bomb Iran?

[Norsefire]

So tell me, what would've happened without the help?

[Buffalo Roam]

I am amazed at how Outback strongly supports the USA. He must be the only European (if indeed he is) that does. It's ridiculous

And like I've said before, the USA has zero ability to conquer.

The U.S. has the ability to win any war it sets its mind to, it is some (Liberals) in our country that don't have the will, and they have political power, and interfere at every turn with the Military doing its job.

There are still people who have the will to win, now what we need is the majority of the American public to make up its mind as to who will have the power to decide the future direction of the U.S. in the world.

[Buffalo Roam]

So tell me, what would've happened without the help?

A broad question could you narrow it down a bit?

[Buffalo Roam]

So tell me, what would've happened without the help?

Short answer, the Israelis would still have kicked Arab ass.

[Norsefire]

A broad question could you narrow it down a bit?

Just to let you know, I believe that the reason we lost the '48 war is because we either underestimated the Israelis, or had bad leadership (most likely)

But, my question was simple. Without any of the help Israel ever got, what would it be?

The US military is pathetic, they can't even conquer Baghdad let alone the World.

[Norsefire]

Short answer, the Israelis would still have kicked Arab ass.

Really? Without any of the aid, Israel would still be a nation of goat herders, let alone a superpower!

[chuuush]

Not the U.S., the Russians Threat, is what sent Israel down the Nuclear road, and it was the French who provided the and received help from Israel to developed its own and Israeli nuclear weapons.

So you mean it was the Soviet threat that made Israel develop nukes? does this mean that in case of a Soviet nuclear attack, Israel was able to hit back with its short to middle range missiles. Should it then mean that Israel should destroy its nuclear arsenal now that soviet threat is over? If not, then can we reason that Israel is posing a threat towards Iran and its other neighbors? Does this justify the necessity for the countries around to develop their own deterrent force! Or Israel is allowed to because its a predictable peace-loving entity sorrounded by warmonger chunkheads. That seems a logical belief given the constant violation of the Israeli aerial space by the Syrian and Lebanese fighters.

BTW, this latest news about the violation seems to be quite valid. Syrians had claimed that Israeli planes had dropped their fule tanks while escaping. Turkish authorities confirmed fuel tanks found near their border with Syria belong to Israeli army and asked the Israeli foreign department for explanation.

[Buffalo Roam]

So you mean it was the Soviet threat that made Israel develop nukes? does this mean that in case of a Soviet nuclear attack, Israel was able to hit back with its short to middle range missiles. Should it then mean that Israel should destroy its nuclear arsenal now that soviet threat is over? If not, then can we reason that Israel is posing a threat towards Iran and its other neighbors? Does this justify the necessity for the countries around to develop their own deterrent force! Or Israel is allowed to because its a predictable peace-loving entity sorrounded by warmonger chunkheads.

The Russian threat is over? Then what do you call the Bomber Missions against the North American Air Defense Zone, and just because the name is changed does that mean the purpose changes?

[Buffalo Roam]

Really? Without any of the aid, Israel would still be a nation of goat herders, let alone a superpower!

They (the Israelis) never were a Nation of goat herders, that honor goes to the Arabs, and the Palestinians, they were from the leading nations of Europe, and they had some of the finest minds available in the world of Science, Engineering, Arts, Medicine, and of the necessary arts to make a country, and make it prosper.

The Israelis made the desert bloom, they put in irrigation, they built cities in the Deserts, they made their Military one of the finest in the world, they turned the Palestine into a garden, they are one of the leaders in the world of science, and the Arabs tried to take their works from them, to make it their own, and the Israelis said never again, why don't you visit Massada, and tell me about the Israelis, visit Birkenau, Awschuitze, Ravens Brook, Bergen-Belsen, Buchenwald, Sobibor, Treblinka, Majdanek, Belzec Chelmwo, Janowsla, and then maybe you will understand the Israeli and NEVER AGAIN!

[Norsefire]

They (the Israelis) never were a Nation of goat herders, that honor goes to the Arabs, and the Palestinians, they were from the leading nations of Europe, and they had some of the finest minds available in the world of Science, Engineering, Arts, Medicine, and of the necessary arts to make a country, and make it prosper.

The Israelis made the desert bloom, they put in irrigation, they built cities in the Deserts, they made their Military one of the finest in the world, they turned the Palestine into a garden, they are one of the leaders in the world of science, and the Arabs tried to take their works from them, to make it their own, and the Israelis said never again, why don't you visit Massada, and tell me about the Israelis, visit Birkenau, Awschuitze, Ravens Brook, Bergen-Belsen, Buchenwald, Sobibor, Treblinka, Majdanek, Belzec Chelmwo, Janowsla, and then maybe you will understand the Israeli and NEVER AGAIN!

lol, of course Buffalo
Israel is still a nation of goat herders!

Some of the finest minds? Nah, that honor goes to the USA which Israel claims as its own

The Israelis made only death and destruction. World leaders in science? Nah, thats the USA, with Israel claiming that they "discovered" something, but I guarantee you 99% was US aid.

[S.A.M.]

Whats wrong with goat herders?

The ones I saw live in the open, get fresh meat, sing songs and compose poetry.

They also lead simple uncomplicated lives that do not involve stress or preemptive attacks.

[Norsefire]

Nothing, nothing at all. I'm just saying that without US aid, Israel would be nothing but what it was in the ancient days, a nation of ignorant goat herders.

[spidergoat]

Without US technology, Israeli would have to increase the size of it's standing army, and probably attack it's enemies. The only reason they can afford to do nothing is they know their defensive capability is strong.

The US military is pathetic, they can't even conquer Baghdad let alone the World.

In the classic sense of the word, we conquered Baghdad in two weeks. We just can't make the Iraqis create a new nation.

[Outback]

But this is an occupation - occupations are very often made successful by being nice to people - as the US has, in the now distant past, demonstrated.

I'm afraid you're going to have to cite an example. They haven't managed it since the end of World War II, or at least I cannot think of one offhand.
Coincidentally (or not), that was also the last time they were able to "unleash hell" on targets without a huge backlash from the civilian population at home.

Treat the enemy nicely, distinguish between the civilian and the military, limit civilian casualties and all you have in the end is an uncowed populace who believe that because the US did not display a firm hand, it is proof that they could not. One does not incite love by such actions, but earns contempt.
The inconsequential Syrian gnat posting here is an example of this - and he is not alone.

Men ought either to be indulged or utterly destroyed, for if you merely offend them they take vengeance, but if you injure them greatly they are unable to retaliate, so that the injury done to a man ought to be such that vengeance cannot be feared.
-Niccolo Machiavelli

Which is why deliberate lying is the standard, reasonable presumption. Because none of that stuff showed WMDs as described by W&Co.

Tell me something. Why on earth do you make the mistake of believing that if they had evidence, if they had seen something which frightened them - why would they show it to you? Do you think the other members of the coalition, and the UN, were incited to take action against Iraq without evidence of any kind, but solely via the persuasive powers of GW Bush?

The main problem with your argument is that you overestimate your own importance in the scheme of things. As if the intelligence gathering operations and governments of the world have any desire to prove anything at all to you, when up until recent years propaganda aimed at underlying prejudice has been so much more effective.

"Deliberate lying" is practised by every government, all over the world.
Including yours, including mine. Only a fool believes that his own government isn't lying to him. And the unreasoning man does not know that sometimes a goverment is also lying to itself. A primary motivation in any war is fear. You must ask yourself where that fear originates.

[Norsefire]

Without US technology, Israeli would have to increase the size of it's standing army, and probably attack it's enemies. The only reason they can afford to do nothing is they know their defensive capability is strong.


In the classic sense of the word, we conquered Baghdad in two weeks. We just can't make the Iraqis create a new nation.

And the capability is strong solely because of the aid it recieved.

Besides, we are stronger.

No, there is a difference between conquest and victory.

You never conquered Baghdad. To conquer it, you would've brought it under control and under US rule

Therefore, my claim stands. The US military cannot conquer ANY nation on Earth.

[Outback]

MOAB.
BOOM!

Maps of Iraq suddenly require revision.

Is that how you like it, Mr. Beeblebrox?

[Norsefire]

MOAB.
BOOM!

Maps of Iraq suddenly require revision.

Is that how you like it, Mr. Beeblebrox?

Nah

I am just amazed at your like of the USA, what a fucking traitor you are. Let me guess, you'd choose the US over your own nation?

[Outback]

*chuckles*

[Norsefire]

woops, best not let your government hear you!

[Outback]

They already have. I'm posting from Guantanamo Bay.
It's not so bad really. Blaring rock music from my cell speakers, 3 square a day and the occasional exercise hour... but these uniforms! Orange is so out of fashion.