America lagging in access to the internet we invented

[Fraggle Rocker]

Abstracted from an article in today's Washington Post.

Broadband service in Japan is eight to thirty times as fast as in the United States and considerably cheaper. Japan has the world's fastest internet connections, delivering more data at a lower cost than anywhere else. Accelerating broadband speed in Japan, South Korea and much of Europe is pushing open doors to internet innovation that are likely to remain closed for years to come in much of the U.S.

Median download speeds in megabits per second:

• Japan 61mbps
• South Korea 46 mbps
• Finland 21mbps
• Sweden 18mbps
• Canada 8mbps
• U.S. 2mbps

Japanese can watch broadcast-quality full-screen television over the internet, an experiece that mocks the grainy wallet-sized images Americans endure. Ultra-high speed applications are being rolled out for low-cost high-definition teleconferencing, telemedicine--which allows urban doctors to diagnose diseases from a distance--and advanced telecommuting to help traffic-choked Japan meet its goal of doubling the number of people who work from home by 2010.

Japan has surged ahead of the U.S. on the wings of better wire and more aggressive government regulation. The copper wire used to hook up Japanese homes is newer and runs in shorter loops to telephone exchanges than in the U.S. DSL is often five to ten times as fast as U.S. cable providers--for as little as $22 a month--and cable internet access is not widespread in Japan.

Nine million Japanese homes have fiber-optic lines, nine times the number in the U.S.

Japanese pathologists can examine tissue samples from patients without access to major hospitals. All they need is a clinic with the right microscope and a fiber connection.

Japan's lead may shift internet innovation away from the United States.

[leopold]

Japanese can watch broadcast-quality full-screen television over the internet, an experiece that mocks the grainy wallet-sized images Americans endure.

americans enjoy FREE TV. buy a TV, stick an antenna out the window and start watching. but i understand what you mean.

Ultra-high speed applications are being rolled out for low-cost high-definition teleconferencing, telemedicine--which allows urban doctors to diagnose diseases from a distance

this is available in the states but it isn't implemented. it would require two different technologies though.

Nine million Japanese homes have fiber-optic lines, nine times the number in the U.S.

i would guess that if you picked a place of similar size the stats would be a little more equal.
don't forget that you (or whoever) is comparing two countries of vastly different areas.

Japan's lead may shift internet innovation away from the United States.

does it surprise you?
america has started a number of things but never fully capitalized on them.

[James R]

I think that in countries like the US and Australia, getting fast internet everywhere is primarily a problem of geography. Both those countries just have much larger distances to cover with cable and so on than a country like Japan. It is inevitable that there will be some catching-up to do.

[spuriousmonkey]

I think that in countries like the US and Australia, getting fast internet everywhere is primarily a problem of geography. Both those countries just have much larger distances to cover with cable and so on than a country like Japan. It is inevitable that there will be some catching-up to do.

How come finland is on the list then. Ever been there?

[John99]

How come finland is on the list then. Ever been there?

I go to Fin Land all the time, there is one down the road from me. As far as the thread, i dont think Americans are really demanding faster internet access. I know i have no desire to watch HD prorams on my computer.

[spuriousmonkey]

It's not about desire. The access speeds are an indication of the infrastructure that is present.

Hence the speeds indicate that other nations are on the forefront of information/technology infrastructure.

That's worrisome if you are a nation dependent on information technology. Maybe the USA isn't. It's probably build on air.

[one_raven]

Maybe the USA isn't.

It most certainly shouldn't be.

[James R]

How come finland is on the list then. Ever been there?

No, I haven't. Is it as big as the US or Australia? I don't think so.

Not that I'm saying that the US and Australia would necessarily have great internet even if they were the size of Finland.

Hell, where I live, I'm still using ISDN dialup, because the lines to my house aren't up to the job of ASDL. Mind you, I don't exactly live in the middle of a city.

[John99]

I can get fiber optic but have no desire to do so.

[leopold]

this could very well be like the audiophile days of the early to mid seventies.
audio amplifier makers would advertise that their amps could deliver a flat response with no more than such and such total harmonic distortion. the competition got so fierce that they were getting down to something like 1/10 of a percent.

the human ear could not discern anything less than 3%

download speeds could be getting the same way.
when you stream a movie do you really need anything more than about 3 mbps? i don't watch HD but i haven't had any quality issues with what i have watched, and i have a 3 mbps connection (DSL).

[leopold]

The access speeds are an indication of the infrastructure that is present.

agreed.
but you must agree that to implement this in a small country is easier than a large one.

Hence the speeds indicate that other nations are on the forefront of information/technology infrastructure.

agreed.

That's worrisome if you are a nation dependent on information technology.

the US isn't dependent on information technology.
it's getting more dependent but it's primary dependency is manufacturing.

[spuriousmonkey]

No, I haven't. Is it as big as the US or Australia? I don't think so.

population density:
USA 31 /km²
Finland 16 /km²
Australia 2.6 /km²

As you can see, Australia might have an excuse regarding size, but the USA hasn't.

In the sparsely population nation of Finland distances are great, the costs of laying down infrastructure likewise increase. The USA is much more densely populated than Finland, hence there is no reason to assume that size matters. After all, it is all a matter of hubs, not of actual absolute distances.


Similarly the mobile phone coverage is much better in Finland than it is in the USA, also in Lapland where nobody lives. It is a choice. It is an investment. You either put a tower in the middle of nowhere or you don't. You either put a good internet connection in the middle of nowhere or you don't.

Since the USA is much denser populated with larger population centers dominating the landscape I see no technical hurdles for the USA to end so low on the list. I only see commitment.

There is of course an ideological difference. In Finland the government can make a decision to invest in infrastructure and waste money on it simply because it fits with the ideological pursuits of this nation.

In the USA people are obsessed with paying taxes and hence improvements will only be made if it will help win the elections.

I do not know the ideology in Australia. I do know that it isn't that keen to stimulate science, and maybe the same is true for technology or technological infrastructure.

agreed.
but you must agree that to implement this in a small country is easier than a large one.

No, it depends on population density and size.

the US isn't dependent on information technology.
it's getting more dependent but it's primary dependency is manufacturing.

That's not very promising then since Germany manufactures more than the whole of the USA.

Edit: no my apologies, that was a lie. Germany exports more. That doesn't mean it manufactures more.

http://www.finfacts.com/irelandbusin..._1010305.shtml

In fact the USA manufactures most. With China going to overtake in 2025.

[leopold]

i disagree spurious.
for DSL the speed that can be delivered to your house is in direct relation to how far you are from the telephone exchange.
i can get 3 mbps because i only live 1/2 mile (about 1 km) from the exchange.
if i lived 2 miles away(about 3 km) i would get something like 700 kbps.

i don't think population density has that much to do with it.
for DSL the length of the wire is the limiting factor.

[one_raven]

the US isn't dependent on information technology.
it's getting more dependent but it's primary dependency is manufacturing.

The manufacturing infrastrcuture would crumble, as would the banking world, communication, emergency services and just about everything else give a catastrophic failure of the technology in place and the internet.

[spuriousmonkey]

i disagree spurious.
for DSL the speed that can be delivered to your house is in direct relation to how far you are from the telephone exchange.
i can get 3 mbps because i only live 1/2 mile (about 1 km) from the exchange.
if i lived 2 miles away(about 3 km) i would get something like 700 kbps.

i don't think population density has that much to do with it.
for DSL the length of the wire is the limiting factor.

Aha...Let's look at the map of Finland.


25% of the population lives in the helsinki area. The rest of the country is sparsely populated. You can drive 800km in a straight line and still not have left the country. Still they have a good infrastructure.

Now, we all have heard Americans have told us how everything is organized by state rather then by nation in the USA.

How big is Finland?

338,145 km² or 130,558 sq miles.

It's bigger than the UK which has a population of 60 million people and Finland only has 5 million people. If distance was anything to go by than the UK should be above Finland easily.

Hence the distance argument cannot be valid.

The USA is roughly 39 times the size of the UK. Finland is bigger than the UK. The USA has 50 states (or something like that). Finland is the size of Montana, one of the bigger states in the US.

You can already get the picture now I guess.

Unless there is only one internet hub in the entire USA, the states of the USA are actually on average smaller than Finland and more populated!

Hence the distance on Finland are on average larger, but they are not, because they invested in the infrastructure.

I'm sorry if I have expanded too much, but the size issue is a myth. This is a seance forum.

[leopold]

The manufacturing infrastrcuture would crumble, as would the banking world, communication, emergency services and just about everything else give a catastrophic failure of the technology in place and the internet.

i don't deny the importance of information.
what i'm saying is that most of the jobs in america befor1980 or so have been manufacturing.

. . . .
How big is Finland?
. . . .
Finland is the size of Montana, one of the bigger states in the US.
. . . .
You can already get the picture now I guess.
. . . .

well see? finland isn't near the size of the US.
everybody in finland should have 3mbps DSL.
oops, my bad. heh.
uh finland has such blazing dowload speeds because they are, well, small.

[spuriousmonkey]

well see? finland isn't near the size of the US.
everybody in finland should have 3mbps DSL.
oops, my bad. heh.
uh finland has such blazing dowload speeds because they are, well, small.

Clearly you are not interested in an honest discussion. And that is sad.

[one_raven]

i don't deny the importance of information.

You said America is not dependent upon Information Technology.
It most certainly is.

what i'm saying is that most of the jobs in america befor1980 or so have been manufacturing.

Before 1980?
That was 27 years ago.

[leopold]

doesn't increase the area of finland.
got a finland stretcher?

finland has a 21mbps speed because they do not have the area to cover like the US does. and poor australia, what about that piece of sandpaper?
just try going across THAT continent.

[spuriousmonkey]

doesn't increase the area of finland.
got a finland stretcher?

finland has a 21mbps speed because they do not have the area to cover like the US does. and poor australia, what about that piece of sandpaper?
just try going across THAT continent.

That would all be fine if the entire USA was serviced from one internet hub. But as most people know, this is not the case.

And also you already forgot the little detail that Finland is bigger than the UK, and has much faster internet connections. In fact Finland is much bigger than the Netherlands and still has faster internet connections.

Hence size of a nation has no causal correlation to the speed of the internet

Hence spare us your insistence on making a complete fool of yourself.