Jesus said, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by WildBlueYonder, Aug 18, 2007.

  1. Dear Sciforumites, or is it Sciforumidians?
    you seem to go back & forth, flailing away, trying to come to grips with an urge to understand so many questions:
    "who am I?"
    "why am I here?"
    "why do we exist?"
    "who made everything?"

    so I'll start to answer with these 3 thoughts:
    1) to better understand yourself & the world around you, go back to the bedrock of faith, the owner's manual for humanity, the Bible
    2) I find it hilarious that the gatekeepers of this religious forum are apparently atheists, something akin to letting me edit the "American Atheist Standard Journal of Discourses & Philosophical Thoughts & Ramblings", wouldn't it be at least more fair, if the person assigned was agnostic & non-committal, instead of openly hostile?
    3) here's a Bible verse that you all may find edifying;
    from:
    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=13&version=50
     
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  3. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    Its ForumScinians.

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  5. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    1) Why the bible exactly? Why not one of the countless other ancient texts in existence - or, and surely more pertinent to state, why not go back to the source of the bible, (earlier Sumerian texts)?

    2) Things progress forwards - they don't progress backwards. As a result, it seems pointless to come to an understanding of the world around us from those that didn't understand the world around us. If you want a better understanding of the world around us, try a science book.

    3) A book is not an indication of truth, it is merely a proposal of it. As an unavoidable result of that, the book cannot be used as evidence or confirmation of the proposal contained therein. The only way to establish 'truth' is to test the proposals. If one cannot test the proposals, the proposals are kinda worthless. Alas as we know, biblical proposals cannot be tested - thus they're inherently worthless to us.

    It's a science forum. Of course one can have an interest in ancient cultures and religion without having to believe in gods - kind of like how I have an interest in Star Trek but don't believe Klingons exist.

    I assume you're talking about both sides? (there should be no atheists or theists, just agnostics). If my assumption is wrong, what 'fairness' do you think there is or would be?

    Here's an LotR passage that you might find interesting:

    "I think really Bilbo preferred slipping off quietly in the end," said Gandalf,
    "Don't be too troubled. He'll be all right now. He left a packet for you.
    There it is!"
    Frodo took the envelope from the mantelpiece, and glanced at it,
    but did not open it.
    "You'll find his will and all the other documents in there, I think,"
    said the wizard.
    "You are the master of Bag End now. And also, I fancy, you'll find a golden ring."

    :shrug:
     
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  7. Photizo Ambassador/Envoy Valued Senior Member

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    Use the right tool for the right job...understanding the world around us first and foremost relates to our interactions with our fellows...the Bible is not a book dealing in science per se, it is a book that deals with/is a study in relationship . First with God, then with your fellow man. It acurately diagnoses/depicts those problems that beset the human heart and provides the only Answer to those problems i.e. repentance towards God and faith in your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

    False. The Biblical proposals can be tested. For example, the following verse from Romans: For no one can ever be made right in God's sight by doing what his law commands. For the more we know God's law, the clearer it becomes that we aren't obeying it.

    This straighforward proposal can certainly be tested provided one has the requisite courage to be brutally honest with oneself, others, and God. The end result ideally, is to recognise not only your condition before God (in need of a Savior) but His Provision in light of your condition, again, Jesus Christ.
     
  8. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    5,758


    The same statement applies. If you want a book about relationships there's many to choose from - indeed many written by professional doctors, psychologists, counsellors etc instead of shepherds. Here's a starting place:

    http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_pg_1...elationships&rh=n:1000,k:Relationships&page=1

    Biblical relationships? Such as: stone witches, prostitutes, naughty children and gay people to death, have the decency of marrying your slave if you bonk her, if your brother dies do the decent thing and impregnate his wife etc etc etc. A study in relationships heh? I'd advise people to listen to Dr Phil over the bible any day of the week.

    Clearly, given the above link as just a small example and the mass of alternate ancient texts, you're wrong.

    Strike 1. No test was conducted to see if a god, (and your specific god), exist. The proposal is worthless.

    Better luck next time.
     
  9. Photizo Ambassador/Envoy Valued Senior Member

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    1,519
    No test is necessary "to see if a god, (and your specific god)," exists:

    what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

    At that time when you give an account of yourself before God, every excuse/explanation concocted for your infidelity and disobedience will be struck down by the Word of God:

    He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath One that judgeth him: The Word that I have spoken (The Bible), the same shall judge him in the last day...

    There is no wisdom, understanding, or advice that can succeed against the Lord



    There will be no "next time" regarding exchanges between you and I.

    FYI: He who is often reproved, yet stiffens his neck,will suddenly be broken beyond healing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2007
  10. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    5,758
    I'm afraid you're wrong, and ancient text is certainly not going to help your case.. because, as mentioned, text/a book is not a confirmation of truth, it is merely a proposal of it.

    You can't assert that something exists and then use a book that says it does as confirmation of its existence. To think that one can is simple idiocy.

    I see. No interest in debate or discussion, just interested in preaching heh? It seems you have joined the wrong forum. Do us all a favour, including yourself, and find a more suitable one.
     
  11. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

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    13,433
    Tell me, if you are standing at the edge of a cliff, which direction would constitute "progress" in your mind?
    A step forward, or a step backwards?
     
  12. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    5,874
    These questions, while intriguing, aren't a priority with me. Sorry.

    This is a fallacious statement. Just because this book of mythology is your bedrock of faith and, perhaps, your "owner's manual, it doesn't follow that it is to the remainder of humanity. One could argue it is complete and utter bigotry to assume that Muslims, Hindu, Buddhists, Navajo, and the Fulani of West Africa require your mythical perspective on life and that their own is less valid.

    It would be asinine since this is a science forum first and foremost, thus reason and logic as well as scientific naturalism are the norm here. And it is scientific naturalism that informs my atheism. I don't subscribe to scientific naturalism, logic and reason because I'm an atheist after all. If you want deluded and credulous moderators for a religion section, the internet is a big place. I'm sure you'll find it.

    But "openly hostile" is exactly what is needed when facing the deluded nonsense of religious superstition. Because it is that very religious superstition that is interfering with so many aspects of modern life and progress, particularly in science. This ranges from stem cell research to fighting HIV/AIDS to global warming (though much less with this lately). The reasoned minds of scientific naturalism should have a venue where they can be openly critical of religious dogma, superstition and delusion. You call it "hostile." I call it fair criticism. If you don't like it, the internet is a big place. I'm sure there's a place to suit your needs.

    The poetry was mediocre but somewhat inspiring. I didn't find it "edifying" in the least when compared with much better works by authors like Feynman, Sagan, Melville, Robert Frost, Whitman, etc.

    This appears to be yet another thread created by the religiously deluded designed to proselytize to the heathen masses at sciforums. You wanted responses.... be careful what you wish for.
     
  13. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

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    Well, if some people took a step forwards it would certainly be progress.

    But being serious for a moment, I don't think stepping off a cliff is reallya pertinent example.
     
  14. Wisdom_Seeker Speaker of my truth Valued Senior Member

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    2,184
    That is one of my favorite parables of Yeshua; for me it reffers on how spreading the truth can be understood (truth = seed).
     
  15. Celpha Fiael within reason, I am superman Registered Senior Member

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    383
    Jesus has been insensitively exclusionary of the deaf! Tisk tisk.
     
  16. Wisdom_Seeker Speaker of my truth Valued Senior Member

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    2,184
    He healed them and made them hear.

    Again, departing from the region of Tyre and Sidon, He came through the midst of the region of Decapolis to the Sea of Galilee. Then they brought to Him one who was deaf and had an impediment in his speech, and they begged Him to put His hand on him. And He took him aside from the multitude, and put His fingers in his ears, and He spat and touched his tongue. Then, looking up to heaven, He sighed, and said to him, “Ephphatha,” that is, “Be opened.”
    Immediately his ears were opened, and the impediment of his tongue was loosed, and he spoke plainly. Then He commanded them that they should tell no one; but the more He commanded them, the more widely they proclaimed it. And they were astonished beyond measure, saying, “He has done all things well. He makes both the deaf to hear and the mute to speak.”


    (Mark 7:31-37)

    Tisk tisk
     
  17. Celpha Fiael within reason, I am superman Registered Senior Member

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    383
    Apparently you didn't catch my flippant tone. Even so, fixing something you are responsible for making in need of healing in the first place sure is praiseworthy, huh?
     
  18. Wisdom_Seeker Speaker of my truth Valued Senior Member

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    2,184
    Who told you that Jesus was God? I surely didn´t.
    Jesus was just a seed who flourished, just as we have the potential of doing.
     
  19. Celpha Fiael within reason, I am superman Registered Senior Member

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    Mmkay.
     
  20. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

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    He's right.
    Jesus never claimed to be God.
    That was an invention by the early church founders and apologists.
     
  21. scorpius a realist Valued Senior Member

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    not me I have all the answers!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    perhaps its YOU who is confused about life?
    faith means believing in something that dont exist,its NOT what Id care to live by
    faith is for brainwashed morrons who cant think for themselves,
    www.thewaronfaith.com
    hey if you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen
    science stands for reason,logic...scary huh?
    and heres the buyBULL you may need to read and think about!
    www.skepticsannotatedbible.com
     
  22. Celpha Fiael within reason, I am superman Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    383
    Oh I don't deny that he never did, though I'm undecided on the matter. But some on this board would say that he did, and it is to those that my comments would be directed towards.
     
  23. Wisdom_Seeker Speaker of my truth Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,184
    When a person become empty of ego, energy starts flowing naturally. The person become like an empty musical instrument, on which God blows the tones.

    In other words, when Jesus said that he was God, like when he said: "I Am the way the truth and the life; no man cometh unto the Father but by Me.".
    It was God speaking through him, he couldn´t control what he was saying, it was comming out of him like fragance comes out of a flower...

    That doesn´t mean that he patented the stuff man, it just means that we all have the potential of doing the same; to become one with our real purpose in life, to become one with existence in order to part take in higher plans that we currently don´t understand.

    "Let thy kingdom come"
     

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