Is the US killing 1000 Iraqis every month? Or is it more?

Discussion in 'World Events' started by S.A.M., Jul 12, 2007.

  1. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    A state-of-the-art research study published in October 12, 2006 issue of The Lancet (the most prestigious British medical journal) concluded that—as of a year ago—600,000 Iraqis had died violently due to the war in Iraq. That is, the Iraqi death rate for the first 39 months of the war was just about 15,000 per month.

    These shocking statistics are made all the more horrific when we realize that among the 600,000 or so victims of Iraqi war violence, the largest portion have been killed by the American military, not by carbombings or death squads, or violent criminals — or even all these groups combined.

    The Lancet interviewers asked their Iraqi respondents how their loved ones died and who was responsible. The families were very good at the cause of death, telling the reporters that over half (56%) were due to gunshots, with an eighth due each to car bombs(13%), air strikes (13%) and other ordinance (14%). Only 4% were due to unknown causes.

    The results are nevertheless staggering for those of us who read the American press: for the deaths that the victims families knew for sure who the perpetrator was, U.S. forces (or their “Coalition of the Willing” allies) were responsible for 56%. That is, we can be very confident that the Coalition had killed at least 180,000 Iraqis by the middle of 2006. Moreover, we have every reason to believe that the U.S. is responsible for its pro rata share (or more) of the unattributed deaths. That means that the U.S. and its allies may well have killed upwards of 330,000 Iraqis by the middle of 2006.

    Even if we work with the lower, confirmed, figured of 180,000 Iraqi deaths caused by the occupation firepower, which yields an average of just over 5,000 Iraqis killed every month by U.S. forces and our allies since the beginning of the war. And we have to remember that the rate of fatalities was twice as high in 2006 as the overall average, meaning that the American average in 2006 was well over 10,000 per month, or something over 300 Iraqis every day, including Sundays. With the surge that began in 2007, the current figure is likely even higher.

    HOW COME WE DON’T KNOW ABOUT THIS?
    These figures sound impossible to most Americans. Certainly 300 Iraqis killed by Americans each day would be headline news, over and over again. And yet, the electronic and print media simply do not tell us that the U.S. is killing all these people. We hear plenty about car bombers and death squads, but little about Americans killing Iraqis, except the occasional terrorist, and the even more occasional atrocity story.

    How, then, is the US accomplishing this carnage, and why is it not newsworthy? The answer lies in another amazing statistic: this one released by the U.S. military and reported by the highly respectable Brookings Institution: for the past four years, the American military sends out something over 1000 patrols each day into hostile neighborhoods, looking to capture or kill insurgents and terrorists. (Since February, the number has increased to nearly 5,000 patrols a day, if we include the Iraqi troops participating in the American surge.)

    These thousands of patrols regularly turn into thousands of Iraqi deaths because these patrols are not the “walk in the sun” that they appear to be in our mind’s eye. Actually, as independent journalist Nir Rosen described vividly and agonizingly in his indispensable book, In the Belly of the Green Bird, they involve a kind of energetic brutality that is only occasionally reported by an embedded American mainstream journalist.

    This brutality is all very logical, once we understand the purpose and process of these patrols. American soldiers and marines are sent into hostile communities where virtually the entire population is supports the insurgency. They often have a list of suspects’ addresses; and their job is to interrorgate or arrest or kill the suspect; and search the house for incriminating evidence, particularly arms and ammunition, but also literature, video equipment, and other items that the insurgency depends upon for its political and military activities. When they don’t have lists of suspects, they conduct “house-to-house” searches, looking for suspicious behavior, individuals or evidence.

    In this context, any fighting age man is not just a suspect, but a potentially lethal adversary. Our soldiers are told not to take any chances: in many instances, for example, knocking on doors could invite gunshots through the doors. Their instructions are therefore to use the element of surprise whenever the situation appears to be dangerous—to break down doors, shoot at anything suspicious, and throw grenades into rooms or homes where there is any chance of resistance. If they encounter tangible resistance, they can call in artillery and/or air power rather than try to invade a building.

    Here is how two Iraqi civilians described these patrols to Asia Times reporter Pepe Escobar:

    “Hussein and Hasan confirm that the Americans usually ‘come at night, sometimes by day, always protected by helicopters.’ They "sometimes bomb houses, sometimes arrest people, sometimes throw missiles’”

    If they encounter no resistance, these patrols can track down 30 or so suspects, or inspect several dozen homes, in a days work. That is, our 1000 or so patrols can invade 30,000 homes in a single day. But if an IED explodes under their Humvee or a sniper shoots at them from nearby, then their job is transformed into finding, capturing, or killing the perpetrator of the attack. Iraqi insurgents often set off IEDs and invite these firefights, in order to stall the patrols prevent the soldiers from forcibly entering 30 or so homes, violently accosting their residents, and perhaps beating, arresting, or simply humiliating the residents.

    The cumulative brutality of these thousands of patrols can be culled from the recent inquest into the suspected war crimes committed in the city of Haditha back in November 19, 2005. The investigation seeks to ascertain whether American marines deliberately murdered 24 civilians including executing with point blank head shots nineteen unarmed women, children and older men in a single room, apparently in retribution for the death of one of their comrades earlier in the day. These horrific charges have made the incident newsworthy and propelled the investigation.

    But it is the defense’s version of the story that makes the Haditha useful in understanding the translation of American patrols into hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths. First Lt. William T. Kallop, the highest ranking officer in Haditha that day, told the military hearing that he had ordered a patrol “to ‘clear’ an Iraqi home in Haditha after a roadside bomb had killed a Marine” earlier in the day. Later, after the firefight that this action generated, he went to inspect the home and was shocked to discover that only civilians had been killed:

    “He inspected one of the homes with a Marine corporal, Hector Salinas, and found women, children and older men who had been killed when marines threw a grenade into the room.
    “‘What the hell happened, why aren’t there any insurgents here?’ Lieutenant Kallop testified that he asked aloud. ‘I looked at Corporal Salinas, and he looked just as shocked as I did.’

    It is important to keep in mind that Lt. Kallop would not have been shocked if there had been one or more insurgents among the dead. What made the situation problematic was that all the fatalities were clearly civilians, and it led to the possibility that they had not been in hot pursuit of an enemy combatant.

    Later, however, Lt. Kallop decided that even this situation involved no misbehavior on the part of his troops, after questioning Staff Sgt. Frank D. Wuterich, who had led the patrol and commanded the military action:

    “Sergeant Wuterich had told him that they had killed people [in that house] after approaching a door to it and hearing the distinct metallic sound of an AK-47 being prepared to fire.
    “‘I thought that was within the rules of engagement because the squad leader thought that he was about to kick in the door and walk into a machine gun,’ Lieutenant Kallop said.”
    According to Kallop, the soldiers were thus following the rules of engagement because if the squad leader “thought” that he was going to be attacked (based on recognizing a noise through a closed door), he was authorized and justified to use the full lethal force of the patrol (in this case a hand grenade), enough to kill all the people huddled within the apartment.
    __________________________________________
    God bless the Americans
     
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  3. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    Many Americans are still too uncomfortable about this information to take it in. We need about 6,700 more brave, dead GIs to get second thoughts. Or another war while we're not ready. We make the rules, and the rules say Iraqis don't count. Bring 'em on.
     
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  5. oreodont I am God Registered Senior Member

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    The world outside of the USA is fully aware of the torture and killings. No 'ex-generals' telling the audience 'what great guys our soldiers are'. Much more coverage of civilians slaughtered and terrorized by an occupation.
     
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  7. desi Valued Senior Member

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    If you were the militia commander of the resistace fighting Americans and you had a bit of time to do something before the Americans came back what would you do?

    Is it inconceivable to think they would move dead and wounded men out of the area to make it look bad for the Americans? Would you grab rifles off of dead women and children to use them in later attacks?
     
  8. Fugu-dono Scholar Of Shen Zhou Registered Senior Member

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    You know if there's a good time to make a move against the US it's now that much of their troops are abroad. The Art Of War states to strike when there's such an opportunity. I guess there's no such alliance against the US afterall since there's no attack on US outside of a few sad little terrorists. I really have no idea why these self-proclaimed freedom fighters are fighting he frontline when they can take it to their backyard. Frankly they deserve to die for being so stupid IMO. By hanging around to fight in Iraq these jihad baka are just going to invole civilians of their own faith as well. Not the best way to make any radical statement to the world ne. However if they keep at it they might foirce a second Vietnam job on the US troops. Even so that's an unnecessary long drawn out plan IMO. Attrition can be but is not always the best ne...
     
  9. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    desi: "Is it inconceivable to think they would move dead and wounded men out of the area to make it look bad for the Americans? Would you grab rifles off of dead women and children to use them in later attacks?"

    Is it conceivable that they shoot their own kids in their own home windows and doorways. Then take the toddler's AK. Pick up that little girl's RPG. They must go to a lot of trouble just to make Americans look bad. That's more likely than rogue Americans in Iraq. Right?
     
  10. desi Valued Senior Member

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    1,616
    These guys get on an airplane anywhere near the US they're going to get picked up by interpol and shipped to Gitmo or some other cozy place for a long drawn out painful conversation. Big brother knows who goes to terrorist training camps.
     
  11. desi Valued Senior Member

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    I'm sure Americans shot them and blew them up. Just like I'm sure the squad leader heard a bolt hit home before fragging the room. I would have done the same thing in his place.
     
  12. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    desi: "Big brother knows who goes to terrorist training camps."

    Big Brother's an idiot.
     
  13. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    12,061
    "Just like I'm sure the squad leader heard a bolt hit home before fragging the room."

    You don't know what he heard. You can't frag and wildly shoot up a house just because you're scared. Not if you want to be considered the Good Guys.
     
  14. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    16,931

    The tie them up and hack off their heads,

    40 tortured bodies found in Baghdad
    Most showed signs of torture and had their hands and legs bound; five were beheaded. Operation Together Forward, a security drive to clear the capital ...
    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2006-09/28/content_698895.htm

    Bodies of 40 torture victims found in Baghdad | Iraq | Guardian ...
    ... 100 miles south-east of the Iraqi capital. Most showed signs of torture, and had their hands and legs bound. Five had been beheaded. ...
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1882949,00.html

    The Jawa Report: MSM Replaces Term, Obvious Signs of Torture ...
    The beheaded remains were found in the Sunni Muslim village of Um al-Abeed, ... and the PAO liaison to the Iraqi Ministry of the Interior to investigate. ...
    http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/188498.php

    aq Body Count | DATABASE | Latest Updates
    k2757, 21 Mar 2006, -, Jamiya, west Baghdad, bodies found bound, shot and tortured, gunfire, executed, tortured, 5, 5, CNN 22 Mar Al-Shar 21 Mar ...
    http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/bodycount_date_down116.php?ts=1183921237

    TheReligionofPeace.com - Islam: Making a True Difference in the World
    Iraqis Tortured and Beheaded for Surfing the Web. ...... Twenty-nine victims of sectarian hatred within the Religion of Peace are found bound and executed. ...
    http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

    Monday: 83 Iraqis Killed, 42 Wounded; GI Missing - Antiwar.com
    In Amarah, the beheaded, bullet-riddled and severely tortured body of Hussein al-Bahadli was found; he was the brother of a local Mahdi Army leader whose ...
    http://www.antiwar.com/updates/?articleid=9905

    Bodies of 12 Baghdad Pepsi workers found [Feeds4All.com]
    Bodies of victims bound, tortured and shot have been found in Baghdad for months. ... The bodies, nine of whom were beheaded, were discovered near the Sunni ...
    http://www.feeds4all.com/Item.aspx?ItemID=14718585

    OC Online Community home - In Pictures: Iraqi Children Witness ...
    Should we adopt the practice of beheading people here instead of 'lethal ..... The family was bound and tortured, before their throats were slit in accord ...
    http://talk.ocregister.com/archive/index.php/t-13269.html

    2006 in Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    The bodies of 16 Iraqis who had been kidnapped and tortured were found .... [262]**Two women were found dead in Kut. One was beheaded, the other burned. ...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_in_Iraq


    Security Ring for Baghdad Underway - washingtonpost.com
    The plans were announced on a day when officials said 52 bound and tortured corpses were found across Baghdad over a 24-hour period. ...
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/15/AR2006091501232_pf.html

    Iraq Body Count | DATABASE | Latest Updates
    k4370, 26 Oct 2006, -, Mosul, bodies found bound and shot, gunfire, executed ... 'a citizen was killed and ten others, including three Iraqi policemen, ...
    http://iraqbodycount.net/database/bodycount_date_down58.php?ts=1183543750

    There are 10,600 more sites on how the Terrorist treat the Iraqi men, women, and children.
     
  15. desi Valued Senior Member

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    Big Brother looks like an idiot. He has alot of useful idiots working for him. His moves are calculated years in advance though. What appears random is actually rehearsed and planned for. As the rest of us ooh and aah big brother merely notices and leads us to the next spectacle as the weight from our pockets lightens and our vast freedoms diminish ever so slowly like a frog in hot water.
     
  16. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    "[Terrists] tie them up and hack off their heads..."

    Yes, but they've fallen far behind. We take out more in their sleep, and going to school, work, and the hospital. Every day.
     
  17. desi Valued Senior Member

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    1,616

    Everyone knows if you shoot civilians you take heat for it and probably go to the brig. Even if you mistreat prisoners on orders this happens.

    You can and you do attack if you think you are in danger if you want to make it back home alive at the end of the day.
     
  18. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    desi: "[Big Brother's] moves are calculated years in advance though"

    Miscalculated.

    ...You can't frag and wildly shoot up a house just because you're scared.


    "You can and you do if you want to make it back home alive at the end of the day."

    Not too smart. You have another patrol in the same neighborhood in 4 hours. Get your shit together. There's an IED out there with your brave name on it.
     
  19. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Bet all the "insurgent" killings were in Shiite districts. By US armed Sunnis.
     
  20. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    http://iraqbodycount.net/database/bo...?ts=1183543750

    So even if we are not invlouved, we still are blaimed for the deaths of Iraqis civilians, not the Terrorist but the U.S. is blaimed? and it is in print and it is from the site that sam and hype love to point out,
     
  21. desi Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah. We fumbled our way into control of the hottest piece of real estate on the planet, as mineral rights go. I've got a bridge I've been looking to get rid of. Give you a hell of a good deal on it.
     
  22. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    "We fumbled our way into control of the hottest piece of real estate on the planet, as mineral rights go."

    No, we have fucked ourselves right out of it. Are you nearsighted?
     
  23. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah too bad the Lancet showed how underreported the deaths are.
     

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