An experiment in Atheism

[Jan Ardena]

GhostofMaxwell,

[By ruling out other explanation i.e. cancer can recede by itself. Scientists could set up control groups to compare with a group of cancer patients that have (unbeknownst to them) been prayed for to rule out this eventuality in this case.

At what point, would an atheist declare that God exists?



Sarkus,

If someone believes they are going to a "better place" and will reside next to their god, why fear that death as much?

Why?
Death itself is the fear, not what occurs after.
Their fears could be alleviated just as much, if they were told there was absolutely nothing after death, no pain, or anxiety, just nothing, don't you think?
Or even better still, a bag of weed and a barrel
of moonshine, would be a good way of alleviating fear of death.

Jan.

[SnakeLord]

Their fears could be alleviated just as much, if they were told there was absolutely nothing after death, no pain, or anxiety, just nothing, don't you think?

How exactly does that help the loved ones of the dead? If your young child dropped dead, wouldn't it serve to help more if you believed you would see him/her again, (in living form as opposed to a skeleton)?

Afterlife is and always has been an extremely useful tool. You can't argue that by saying "drink moonshine".

[GhostofMaxwell.]

GhostofMaxwell,



At what point, would an atheist declare that God exists?



.

Im not sure any scientist would ever declare god exists no more than the declare evolution(one of the strongest pieces of indirectly observable science there is). There is no danger of this being a problem though because anything you declare is due to god can be facilitated by prosaic explaination.

[Jan Ardena]

SnakeLord,

Their fears could be alleviated just as much, if they were told there was absolutely nothing after death, no pain, or anxiety, just nothing, don't you think?

How exactly does that help the loved ones of the dead?

They would be comforted in the idea that after death their is nothing, so there is no need to greive over a bag of mucus, blood, and bones. And to add to that, they can do what the hell they like while alive.

If your young child dropped dead, wouldn't it serve to help more if you believed you would see him/her again, (in living form as opposed to a skeleton)?

The young child would already be dead. We are discussing the fear of death/dying.

Afterlife is and always has been an extremely useful tool. You can't argue that by saying "drink moonshine".

a) it doesn't mean it is a man-made concept.
b) and you've still given no reason as to why man would plot such an elaborate idea, just for the sake of alleviating natural fears.
c drinking moonshine/alcohol can alleviate fear of death, even if for a short while. It is a better remedy than the idea of an afterlife, imo.

Jan.

[Jan Ardena]

Im not sure any scientist would ever declare god exists no more than the declare evolution(one of the strongest pieces of indirectly observable science there is). There is no danger of this being a problem though because anything you declare is due to god can be facilitated by prosaic explaination.

My question was aimed at "atheists" not scientists.

Then am I right in thinking that "miracle of some sort" would not be classed as evidence for the existence of God, even if it was evidence?

Jan.

[GhostofMaxwell.]

My question was aimed at "atheists" not scientists.

Then am I right in thinking that "miracle of some sort" would not be classed as evidence for the existence of God, even if it was evidence?

Jan.

It most certainly could be classed as evidence of god, But scientists dont mix up the evidential with declarations of existance. Thats why relativity (although comprehensive evidence backs it up) is only classed as a theory.

[Jan Ardena]

It most certainly could be classed as evidence of god, But scientists dont mix up the evidential with declarations of existance. Thats why relativity (although comprehensive evidence backs it up) is only classed as a theory.

So at what point would an atheist/you believe in the existence of God?

Jan.

[GhostofMaxwell.]

So at what point would an atheist/you believe in the existence of God?

Jan.

I wouldn't! Belief is for theists/you.

[Orleander]

So at what point would an atheist/you believe in the existence of God?

Jan.

I'd believe after I was dead and standing in heaven. That would make a believer outta me.

[Jan Ardena]

I wouldn't! Belief is for theists/you.

So you will only accept the existence of God, when you KNOW for sure?

Jan.

[Jan Ardena]

I'd believe after I was dead and standing in heaven. That would make a believer outta me.

Lets say for argument sake you were standing in hell after death, would you believe in the existence of God?

Jan.

[Orleander]

Lets say for argument sake you were standing in hell after death, would you believe in the existence of God?

Jan.

for arguments sake? Didn't know we were arguing.

Yeah, probably. But that is the kind of proof I would need.

[GhostofMaxwell.]

So you will only accept the existence of God, when you KNOW for sure?

Jan.

No I would accept the existence with great enough evidence. I just wont have faith that the existence is beyond refute.

[SnakeLord]

They would be comforted in the idea that after death their is nothing, so there is no need to greive over a bag of mucus, blood, and bones. And to add to that, they can do what the hell they like while alive

Tripe. I don't know very many people at all that are comfortable with knowing that once they die they cease to exist. I accept it as a reality, but comforted by it? Do me a lemon.

The young child would already be dead. We are discussing the fear of death/dying.

You were asking why people would invent the idea of heaven/afterlives. This is one part of that explanation. Afterlives not only alleviate your own fear of dying, but your fear of loved ones dying as well.

a) it doesn't mean it is a man-made concept.

For the sake of argument, no. It could have been made by invisible leprechauns for all it matters - it's irrelevant. You asked what reasons man would have to invent heaven/afterlives. Some of those reasons have been given to you.

[Jan Ardena]

No I would accept the existence with great enough evidence. I just wont have faith that the existence is beyond refute.

Then I ask; what would you regard as great evidence?

Jan.

[Jan Ardena]

SnakeLord,

Tripe.

Your opinion, nothing more.

You were asking why people would invent the idea of heaven/afterlives. This is one part of that explanation. Afterlives not only alleviate your own fear of dying, but your fear of loved ones dying as well.

It doesn't explain why people would invent the idea, only that you think it is a reason.

For the sake of argument, no. It could have been made by invisible leprechauns for all it matters - it's irrelevant. You asked what reasons man would have to invent heaven/afterlives. Some of those reasons have been given to you.

The reasons are no more convincing than my reasons, or any other reasons one may care to speculate with.

Jan.

[SnakeLord]

Your opinion, nothing more.

Uhh.. everyone's given their opinion here lol..

Of course you have educated opinions, uneducated opinions and plain bloody worthless opinions. Now, you claim that people would be happy knowing that when they're dead they cease to exist. This does not stand up under scrutiny, and thus the opinion you gave is 'tripe', unless you can show people that are comforted by the fact that when they die they'll cease to exist? Ooh look, I'm going to die.. what fun.

It doesn't explain why people would invent the idea, only that you think it is a reason.

Uhh yes it does.

The reasons are no more convincing than my reasons

Lol, you're a comedian.

[Celpha Fiael]

I'm really jumping in on the tail end of this one, but this thread seems to be a more active one, which is what I like. So I've basically just picked a post that I can springboard off of and into this discussion Having said that...

SnakeLord,

It doesn't explain why people would invent the idea, only that you think it is a reason.

Jan.

It is an extremely viable and well educated reason, regardless of what he thinks of it. So on what grounds do you not accept it?

[Jan Ardena]

SnakeLord

Uhh.. everyone's given their opinion here lol..

But I was talking 2 U.

Now, you claim that people would be happy knowing that when they're dead they cease to exist.

Its not a claim, but a guess, just like yours.

This does not stand up under scrutiny, and thus the opinion you gave is 'tripe', unless you can show people that are comforted by the fact that when they die they'll cease to exist? Ooh look, I'm going to die.. what fun.

*such angst*

Scrutiny?

Uhh yes it does.

Brilliant explanation!

Lol, you're a comedian.

Thanks.

Jan.

[Jan Ardena]

I'm really jumping in on the tail end of this one, but this thread seems to be a more active one, which is what I like. So I've basically just picked a post that I can springboard off of and into this discussion Having said that...



It is an extremely viable and well educated reason, regardless of what he thinks of it. So on what grounds do you not accept it?

Read my posts, and therein you will find the answer.

Jan.