I notice that in Hinduism there is a phrase “twice born”, which refers to the 3 castes which can take initiation and wear the sacred thread, and then enter a life of religious / spiritual studentship. This is called twice born because when they take this thread they are said to be born again. In Christianity there is also a phrase “born again”, whereby through faith Christians are “born again” in Christ. The Christian version is obviously much later. Is there any connection / copying ? or is it just coincidence, a common religious metaphor? Any thoughts….
The concept of dying and being born a second time is an archetype: a motif that occurs independently in almost all cultures and almost all eras. The Phoenix is another example.
I second Fraggle Rocker. It's not only an important archetype and a part of many mythologies in more ways than one, but it's also a very important quality of our psyche that it can as if restructurize and change the way the world is interpreted/ perceived. That's the source of many feelings of amazement and wonder, and creativity and invention, a release of psychic energy that manifests itself in qualities of determination and integrity.
Like Avatar said, all religions spring from the same eternal source, which is God, so of course there will be repeats, like “born again,” for Christianity is only one of the latest of inflorescence of earlier religions. Look at the Theosophical Society, or Rosicrucian Fellowship for more background. Concerning “The Gnostic Gospels” by Pagels. Such books show the authors seem unaware that the NT contains far more Gnosis within its pages than are found in ancient garbage heaps from which Pagels draws her material. Use logic, and we should think that if Pagels uses garbage to help her discover a few ideas in the NT, then there must be a higher source we can draw from that uncovers all the secrets in the NT. The same two organizations explain how we may contact that higher source, where we are linked back to God.
Well, I didn't say "God" and I said "mythologies" not "religions" (a broader term), but since the word "God" is just a reference to the same thing I don't see anything to argue - God, Goddess, the Universe, Nature, Energy, whatever.
That is how Blavatsky of the Theosophical Society talks: no worries. Religions, or myth stories are the same thing only the ignorant make a difference. Many here in the Sciforums are not able to see that God includes your kind, Avatar, of insight. It seems each post must include an entire book so the detractors will know to be silent. So long as like a duck unfair criticism can run off one's back there are no problems. Here is a link that, though the site is incomplete, I can now post: http://home.earthlink.net/~donutnous/
From the website: Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! The Pope probably has something to say in this.
Didn't the kids on South Park discover that Apostle Peter was really a rabbit? Back in their Easter episode this year?
From that same website; Thats amazing, they are all the same religion. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Maybe you could come up with a name for that....... how about....... 'Abrahamic religion'?
I would argue that any religious discipline that makes the distinction between operating out of illusion and operating out of knowledge requires something like twice born/born again - on a side point such things often become institutional or 'rubber stamped' and the actual qualities on which the term twice born/born again rests are shrouded in the hype and prestige of demanding respect rather than commanding respect
peter rabbit Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!, i saw that episode it was a good one. you gotta love how jesus took that guys head off with the shuriken type weapon, then puts his shades on in that final pose. peace.
Moderator note: please stay on topic. I'm in a good mood half asleep at work now, so I won't delete your current offtopic comments, because I'd probably delete myself from the forums if I try to do something that requires attention.
Most superstitions have some roots in the practical world. "Born again" concepts seem to reflect the very real an often event in a person's life of a truth or dramatic realization, or decision point. For a large majority of people this if often called a mid-life crisis and usually occurs around age 40. It was true for me - I divorced and started a new life. For many others it takes a different path. The point is that once one has considered many issues deeply enough for a long time there is often a point where one feels supremly confident and have the courage to make a signficant decision, often a life altering event. And since issues of religion tend to dominate a lot of world thought then a dramatic decision to totally immerse onself in a particular religion fits very well with that paradigm. Of course those who take that route will attribute the cause to a superntuarl source, e.g. God has shown me the light, etc, whereas objectively it is simply a natural human event point where one has thought about issues deeply and long enough. Younger people, however, also often jump into the 'born again' religious camp and that is usually not becuase they have thought through the issues but more because of peer pressure, family pressure, indoctrination, etc. For many, who do eventually think things through, will reject the claim, but too many others will cling to the idea even though they are not fully on board simply becuase they'd be too embarrassed to admit they jumped in too soon - pity.
Plenty of young people go through the same experience that other people go through in their early forties, many times at the end of high school or while in college. I know of several people who "snapped", sort to speak around 20 and then changed into a completely different, very self assured young adult, and sometimes it took on a religious dimension even though their families and friends either weren't particularly religious, or were outright hostile to religious ideas as a whole. Why is it that, once people reach middle aged, they often forget that the experience of life altering epiphany isn't something that's isolated to the elders of society?
Probably just a common religion metaphor. Originally, Hinduism was a monotheistic religion; in short, it has 'expanded'. Frankly, I'm not sure what the derivation of 'twice born' is in Hinduism. It sounds like beginning a new sort of life. In Christianity, being 'born again' is a spiritual birth as the act of God, opposed to a natural birth. Similar concepts, but different derivations I should think. The Bible speaks of pre-Abrahamic religion, wherein men responded to God as they saw fit. I see no reason to doubt Hinduism is the long distant echo of this time, somewhat distorted by time.
My understanding: “A child is born without an ego, the ego is then created by our brain to survive in society. To be born again is to be in the same state of awareness as when you were born, but consciously.” The Hindu concept “dvija” (twice-born): one who has undergone the second birth or the birth of the inner person. An Egyptian papyrus bearing the emblem of an egg floating over a mummy typifies the second birth of the Osirified dead. Each pharaoh had to perform a ritual at age 30 (Heb-Sed Festival) on which he died, went to “speak to the gods” for 3 days, and was resurrected from the world of the dead. All we know about the Christian concept is the following passage: “Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him." In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!" Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." (John 3:1-8) For me, its all the same, the birth of the Spirit, the second birth.
