Psychic proof - why not?

Proof - Why Not?

"Why can't Psychic Phenomena be proven?"​

Opinion: an essay.

The phenomena we are experiencing as individuals is or more importantly should be normally subliminal or instinctively subconscious. That is to say that these psychic activities are normally what makes the consciousness of a person function and normally should not be a part of consciousness but that which under pins the consciousness of the person.

In persons who have experienced instinctive, reflexive, reactive psychic functions of our MINDS autonomic systems they consider them to be abilities to be learned and attempt to do so. It is the nature of consciousness to control what it is aware of. [ certainly there is a strong tendency for one to do so]

However if one attempts to control that which should be inherently reflexive one finds that they are compelled to "deliberately" apply that ability as a way of compensating for the loss of instinctive reflexes and reactivity.

In other words the deliberate "will" is now compelled to act instinctively thus the sense of compulsion and the feeling that one is obsessed with futility of acting out something that seems to go no-where nor lead to any development of psychic ability.

But of course all the person is actually doing is applying conscious and deliberate effort to something that would other wise be automatically applied at a deep subconscious level. In some people this condition of instinctive/ deliberate behaviour is sever enough to put them in a very precarious mental state due to mental fatigue and frustration leading to hospitalisation and diagnosis such as Paranoid Schizophrenia etc.

Of course because we are talking about normal reflexive behaviours that are now aberrant and considerably slower [ due to "micro management" problems] interrelationships with people suffer accordingly, also the self consciousness of the act tend to render the operant incapable of escaping the uncomfortable nature of his or her own self awareness. Not to mention the incredible distraction of doing something that would other wise be instinctive and automatic.

So what happens is that a person who has realised the major truth of our reflexive psychic natures wishes to tell the world about it and as you would expect the "instinctive" world is not really wanting to know as they also do not want to be caught up in the trap of compelled instinctive/ deliberate behaviour [ as one counter issue on it own as there are many other reasons for denial]

So proof is only available if it is derived reflexively and not with premeditation which requires the ability to over ride our own instinctive and reflexive behaviour. As soon as one applies deliberate premeditated "will" one will fail especially with regards to predictability either totally or achieve inconclusive results at best.

It is a global or universal social problem and not isolated just to the individual. To succeed one has to alter instinctive reflexive psychic behaviours of not only the target and himself but all other entities as well. A very big task indeed yes?

Evidence of psychic phenomena can be shown every where one exists. It is most evident in the trauma that is presented in psychiatric institutions and in the denial shown by society generally.

Of course we are all capable of manipulating, cohersion, telepathy and ambient mood changes etc. It happens all the time, how ever not normally as per conscious premeditated will, but usually at a deep instinctive and subconscious level when passive but at a conscious level when pro-active.

The main reason for example why the world is never at peace is simply because of this fact for as people, we simply do not know how much we interfere with other peoples lives and how that effects their behaviour towards us in turn. Interrelationships suffer accordingly.

So a person who has been diagnosed with Paranoid Schizophrenia has normally terrible relationships with those around him. The ability to instinctively communicate has been lost and because he is on manual mode instead of automatic mode he is incapable of deliberately responding in a way that is appropriate as his reactions are simply too slow. Normal communications happen extremely fast [ speed of light would be an example of rate]

So what is the solution?
How does one restore the automatic function of the autonomic mind?
How does one recover from the psychic trauma that such a life of pseudo psychic ability and the intense fatigue generates?

edit: As one can see in most posts concerning this issue intense ambition plays a big part. Even when a person is suffering intense societal and physical dysfunction and is desperately looking for solutions they are caught up in the ambition to master their ability so much so that they will be prepared to destroy them selves and their relationships to achieve that end. [ re: God Complex - inherent human nature]
Big questions hey?

Care to discuss?

 

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In other words?

 

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Yeah. Could you boil that down a bit QQ?

 

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Sheesh!!!

I just realised that the above essay summarises about 30000 words. ha

No wonder it is way to much to take in......

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I have put forward many propositions and have explained very little about them.

1] The mind/ brain/ body are essentially instinctive and reflexive.
2] Volition is achieved by learning the appropriate reflexes to govern our normally pasive reflexive state. From early childhood we learn how to govern our instincts and reflexes enough to enable volition and deliberate action and thought whilst within an ocean of psychic phenomena. Say <12 months old
3] Psychic phenomena especially regarding communications types such as telepathy and mind reading etc are usually only reflexive and deeply subconscious and are part of the reflexology that underpins normal consciousness. Occassional or quite often these aspects of our "autonomic" reflexive mind become conscious and in doing so fall under control of volition but also diminish the foundation of that consciousness so that the person must "use deliberate action" to support his own consciousness where as before he would have done so autonomically [ automatically]

Thus he will declare evidence of psychic phenomena when in fact what he is doing is only what is normal from other persons perspectives but is deliberate from his.

So therefore a person may say for example that he can influence the actions of someone else but really doing only what would have happened any way with out conscious awareness.

The main thing though is we all use our ability to over ride our instinctive tendancies all the time. This is in fact what volition means. To become proactive rather than passive to our environment. So when a person attempts to send information telepathically he does so by over riding his instinctive autonomic mental behaviors and of course he self-defeats himself indoing so and can not perform telepathic function that can be premeditated but will often experience telepathic communication at random and usually at very inconvenient moments. This can be so debilitating that psychiatric intervention may be necessary.

In other words to use telepathy one has to over ride the instinctive telepathy that is going on any way and of course when you over ride your instincts and do it badly you must fail when it is that very ability you are over riding. [ a double bind so to speak]

I do need to nut out a better way of explaining my opinion....sorry if I am confusing.

"I was talking to a old guy [ called him Jim ] the other day who must have been at least 70 odd years old. He said that all his life he has had the ability to eaves drop on other peoples thoughts and all his life he had been dysfunctional socially. He has learned to keep himself isolated and in the shadows. How to stay socially invisible. Walking the streets during the day with his possessions and sleeping rough as far away from people as possible.

Many years of treatments have failed to take away his ability and of course any time he attempts to deliberately prove it he fails to be able to do so. Medical opinion states he is suffering auditory halucinations and therefore Paranoid Schizophrenia is the diagnosis.
The quality of his insight into other peoples thinking is not the best with much fragentation as fear [ adrenalin ]not only his own but that of other persons tends to constantly disrupt the flow of information. So he may pick up one word [ meaning] here and there and be constantly teased with the possibility of more...."......

" .....being a young man [ in the past ] also meants that eaves dropping on female thoughts has always been a source of great temptation and enourmous frustration as a mixture of fear and erotic arousal overwhelms any ability to concentrate, however now that he is older and less attractive to the females [ less relevant thoughts to listen in on] his life has acheived a certain peace..."

just one of a few interviews ......of similar results.

 

The problem is is that Jim doesn't appear to need to try, it just happens. Why would he ever need to try? In other words, if someone asked Jim to prove it he wouldn't have to do anything. The fact that Jim has to sleep far away from people indicates that he has no control over other peoples thoughts entering his mind to the extent that he has to get away from them to keep the thoughts entering his head. Clearly many people that think they are reading other peoples thoughts are just delusional.

 

Thanks for your comments Grover.
A few things came to mind when I read your repsonse.
Firstly with all due respect, when some one lays an accusation of delusion upon someones experience they often do not realise just how damaging that can be to the persons self esteem and sense of reality. In fact the accusation of delusion can destroy a persons sense of identity and self reality. [ I am a making a general staatement and not pointing directly at your response ok? ]

"Jim" for intents and purposes is an intelligent man. Articulate, sincere and bright. He is no dummy and has managed to navigate through his difficult life and done so as successfully as his body/mind could and can allow.
He makes no claim to being able to drop in on people thoughts. He was making an honest assessment gained over 60 odd years of conscious experience. He is not asking me to believe him. And I am not asking you to either.
Secondly, as I mentioned in my essay above the ability to eaves drop for Jim is compulsive deliberate. In that he is compelled to eaves drop with deliberate will. Not unlike an addiction to crack or cocaine or any other highly addictive situation. He feels compelled to deliberately seek the thoughts of others and has not been able to avoid doing so. So he is unable to just passively listen but is compelled to be proactive.

So when he sees or is aware of people he is compelled to delierately attempt to read their thoughts. And has to remove himself from people so he can avoid the compulsion when he wishes to sleep. Thus most of the day he spends looking at the ground and not at the people he sees around him. Being bombarded with other peoples thoughts all day can be extremely exhausting. However at night he will seek the most lonely of locations to rest. Hostel accomodation is too social and full of "crazy thinkers" [ his words ]

As I suggest in my essay we all read each other all the time but Jim has acquired conscious awareness of this fact and now his mind wishes to learn how to control it, thus putting the need to do so whilst maintaining relative normal function simultaneously. So even if he does not wish to "read" he has to and now instead of being automatic [ passive] it is now proactive just to maintain his conscious state.

So Jim is caught up in the "infrastructure " that supports normal relationships between people.

Trying to learn the deliberate control of something that is needed to support his own conscious state puts him in a double bind. "Can't have normal relationships and can't learn what he needs to learn so he can."

So he is caught like so many others in a sort of torturous limbo land where you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Just an opinion.....or hypothesis....what ever

 

Also just to clarify:
In my opinion an instinctive or reflexive reaction is one that is compelled. In other words you have no control over the compulsion to react instinctively.
When that instinctive behavior gains the need to be deliberately willed it means every time an instinct is stimulated you are compelled to deliberately perform that other wise instinctive function. A bit like having to deliberately breath. Most of the time breathing is a mixture of passive and proactive actions. When we are exhausted we will deliberately draw more breath but when we are relaxed we tend to be passive.

Jims "mind reading" was supposed to be passive but has acquired the need to be proactive or deliberate. Thus to survuive he is obliged by his body/mind to deliberately fullfill the requirements of survival that would normally be autonomic and passive.

In other words Jims mind, is like a person who has to deliberately breath all the time. Exhausting for sure.

 

QQ.

"Thus he will declare evidence of psychic phenomena when in fact what he is doing is only what is normal from other persons perspectives but is deliberate from his.

So therefore a person may say for example that he can influence the actions of someone else but really doing only what would have happened any way with out conscious awareness."

Please don't tell me that this is something i'm going through

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I dunno Brent what do you think ....is it?

Most people go through it all the time and it is just a matter of degree and extreme.

For example:
Some people are great public speakers. They have no problom relaxing in front of an audience and can concentrate with ease, whilst some cannot do this at all or if they do are incredibly nearvous about it. Some are more passive and others have to be more proactive.....
a question of how intense your self awareness is....and how well you cope with it.

 

perhaps.. you're saying something totally different than what I have though. What you are speaking of is a very seroius issue and I don't think I my self / situation goes along with this.

Check your e mail.

 

Hello.

In the serious state that I am in at present reading this has been easier I guess. How ever. There are some things that I'd like to mention.

When I first read this it was probably without too much attention or something. But, now that I am reading it it is making a lot more sense. I actually think that you were .. refering to me as being this Jim guy and "his own words" being "crazy thinkers"... well maybe I have said something similar.


But, I would like to state that what you're saying (once again) is getting no responses (except for the last one being mine), well, go figure. Maybe they are just too afraid to say anything because they think they'll be wrong. They definately aren't afraid to say anything because they are afraid they're going to be right, right?

So this uh, thing you're talking about is very profound. In my opinion, it is probably the greatest psychic endeavour ever written. And it is at a science forum. .. Where.. no one has said or responded to anything you have written about what I am at present talking about.

Would you believe that.
That's right.


Not long from now a while past this present myself, and I, had thought about giving a perfect and clear response to one of your posts to the thread where you prove psychic phenomon (the diagram is now gone, and I give it some thought now and again)... But, I never did mannage to write that, and now and instead I am writing "this."


A SCIENCE FORUM
Would you seriously believe that....

At a science forum you're supposed to see people debate things. Believe me I know the heat of this forum and believe me be, I have debated and wrote about psychic things all over and can see how the debate on the issue is going. Of course the "debate" is actually shunned most of the time, people do not believe that it exists.

Don't you believe, (seriously), that there is a thing called
"Research into the paranormal."

Don't you think some of these things could get a repsonse?
And when they do?
Well?

Will they be dissed and everything? Shown to not be true? Requiring evidence?
Why are we arguing........ when there should be some solution to what we're arguing for?

Peoples explainations of all sorts of things from other people are so stuid to this and that and having confidence in what they say. It's just a forum for christs sake but in my opinon (what is the most profound statement?) psychic phenomon is one of the more important things debated if not the most important thing debated worldwide (that being, forums, and such where attention is given attention is gotten, and the matter is able to be taken seriously): For example....

If we get attention to the fact that perhaps there is some psychic connections wouldn't there be knowledge that these things exist.
Maybe people are like the "Jim" you have described... And they suffer and things.

Maybe people just don't want to know the truth.
That is the most profound statement I was searching for!

"You do not want to know the truth about psychic phemonon."

Of course the answer boils down to precisely that with requiring a few more words to be mentionend for it to be actually complete...

The completion of the statement would come from the fact that when there are threads cratead about this exact issue the debate goes along so that we are trying to prove something that to begin with is very difficult to prove.

Perhaps if a psychic investigator is simply able to write his ideas and then have others respond to them would be a better meathod. Perhaps a best meathod would be simply the thread in subject. Have the thread and have it work out so that people will do as I have described. When faced with things such as what you've mentioned andyou come across a point such as "has any of this stuff I mentioned got any (at all) backing with science?" And of course their mouth dropping answer is "no." (if they respond). This is the only way to succeed with things which have not yet been suggested as possible I think.

Anyway, I think the question is "what quesiton should we raise concerning psychic phenomon".

Answer would probably be "it doesn't exist."
And then it is OUR job and not theirs to prove that it does.

"

Really.

Yes, really.

Prove it.

Oh, well I can't prove it exists, but I can say that it doesn't. Which is valid in that it has never been proven ever.

Well, What question do you think we should raise regarding it.

Well, that is a decent question. Probably we should raise the issue of how it hurts so many people (the topic).

Well, if it hurts so many people...."



Would someone care to finish for me?

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BTW qq what's your opinion

 

simplest solutions are not necessarilly the correct ones jamesR you know that.
and besides the current methods for treating schizophrenia are not correct ones nor are they any where close to a solution and are merely treating symptomology and not causality.

Further before I go on to greater detail with another post:
There are not many psychic professionals claiming telepathic ability in fact I have yet to see any one suggesting that they recieve money for being telepathic [ no reason to pay them I guess] [ better than email I bet ha]

Also like any human endevour you will always find fraud just like you do in physical sciences and medicine, religion and any aspect of human interest..especialy USA mortgage industry ha

For example it could just as easilly be claimed that mental health issues are caused by free floating pheromones in the persons ambient air environment.

But of course this is not subject to scrutiny either...why I ask?

Paranoia of loss of mental privacy is a fundamental fear as too many secrets would be exposed.

anyways...

 

The goal is having a heads up... er... advanage... er... heads up...

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Unfortunately it isn't easy to prove as doing tests in a real social environment is not practical. Especially if you are suffering severe trauma already and barely able to maintain coherant thought to begin with due to that trauma.

 

JamesR I suggest you re-read the opener again and repost as your post is obviously out of context with the OP.
Try to take in what I am attempting to describe.
Firstly I state that the issue of psychic ability is a big non-event as it is only instinctive and reflexive to start with. Secondly, I also explain quite clearly why this is so and why this poses a problem when it reaches the consciousness of an individual.
It is only a hypothesis of why and not much more that builds on the hypothetical premise that psychic pheno is a reality of how our minds normally function.

I also go on to answer the threads question as to why psychic pheno can not be proved in a way that is acceptable.

If you can tell me why my OP is somehow totally wrong I am all ears.

 

*Buzzzzzzzzz*
*Beepp*
"y0 QQ have you got the message I sent, over"
*Beep*

 

naah but I am trying to work out who sisyphus is today?

 

I am unfortunately just still who I am. "Who" made a post, which I value highly.

As a matter of fact thanks to this I will probably take it with disregard again as it has recieved not only no attention but, little worth apparently.

Funny I'll type up a whole little essay just about with what I consider similar to a good dialogue, actually it is a pretty good dialogue if you can understand what I meant and if you can finish it. I actually believe, that it makes sense.

I am who I am.

Who are you?

 

Actually, all you really need is a voice recorder in perfect comfort and hidden location. It would only require one to voice out the changes and occurances with others well being and change of location due to whatever psychic transmission which has occured.

This is the easiest way to prove it and it is hard to say that it has not been done.

If qq disagrees with me so help me god , I fold entirely.