Various Christians on this site have proclaimed that once someone is "saved" they can never become "unsaved." These same Christians admit that all humans, saved or unsaved, are constantly sinning against God everyday. So what is it that differentiates "saved" people from "unsaved" people? By saved, I'm guessing that means saved from hell. But it seems like someone who is saved could easily revert back to an unsaved state because of free will.
being saved means you can sin all you want and still go to heaven because they know they are going to sin anyways because they don't really give a shit except satisfying themselves. Ironicly people who aren't so prone to sinning don't need or look for these mental safety nets to quell their conscience. They don't ultimately want to take personal responsibility, they want to blame others, victims, the devil made them do it, god told them etc etc etc etc. Why don't you see how they would work a deal like that out in their devious mind?
A scripture says that though a believer may even try to let go of God's hand, God will never let go of his, so there you have it.
Oh that's screwed up so just because you believe you get into heaven whether you are a mass murder criminal, rapist, or piece of human filth because you believe in god. No wonder parasitic lowlifes always believe in god.
The Bible teaches polar opposites as truth, over and over again. It teaches both that you can lose your salvation and that you cannot lose your salvation. The "truth" is that it teaches both! You just have to pick the one you like. The "eternal security" doctrine is, perhaps, the most popular teaching in this age since by it a person can both condemn all others (who disagree with them) and still justify every sin they have ever committed or will ever commit in the future. In their eyes everyone else deserves death now and hell for all eternity thereafter. And in all of this they justify themselves. You have a lot of insight, NDS!
Rant and rave all you want, the Bible stands strong, and there is absolutey nothing you can do about it.
Terrific argument. The best your contemporaries can come up with, when faced with the inevitable wrongness in their faith in outdated books, is one of "you just have to know." At least it's a little better than "I know you are but what am I."
The Bible "stands" in contradiction on this and many other topics. And so does the Christian church as there is no consensus even on this most basic issue to the faith. Whatever you teach on this topic, Ice, is contradicted in the teachings of the next church down the street. This is "figuratively" an undeniable fact of the contemporary church. This, perhaps, was not always true in the past, though, since the doctrine of eternal security has only been around, I think, for less than half of the history of the church, only some hundreds of years. And John Calvin who was himself a murderer brought it into the church. No wonder He taught this doctrine! Am I distorting any of this? Please correct me, my friend, if you can!
Since it's in the NT, I presume many knew this through the centuries, but then again, since the Catholics didn't allow the "common man" to read the Bible for himself, maybe not.
well, yes, you are always saved. However, Satan tempts saved people, to bring them to do evil things. He doesnt really tempt Unsaved people, because they are already his. Now I have met many fallen saved people, and they always seem to come back because they realize what their life is like disconnected from a personal relationship with god. Then again, it is always so hard to tell when someone genuinley is saved if they claim to be so. The Broken are easier to differentiate from the straight then the bent. Still, I believe that fallen saved people will stil go to heaven, because they still hear god. Thye just choose to block him out. This question is one that I have pondered and never really gooten an excellent answer from, so forgive me if im vague.
I have been taught to understand that according to the bible, we are not saved yet... My mother and Father taught me that "faith without works is dead". It was explained that we can become lacking in either faith or works. When one of these is lacking the Bible has shown that some have missed out on their salvation. I was told to use the examples in the bible and watch my conduct and continue to take in knowledge about the world and about God...expanding my understanding...and to be dillegent because Christians aren't told to put on the "complete suit of armor" for no reason. We can become to independent on ourselves or crippled by Satan's "firey" missles" And loose that salvation. When humans constantly sin...salvation is something we're constantly striving for and does end untill the race for life is complete. So I never give up...I never stop running and I keep my eyes on the prize...
IAC, can you post that "once saved, always saved" verse for us? I know you have before but I forgot the exact verse.
I forget where it is, maybe somebody else will know where the NT says that even if a believer tries to let go of God's hand, He will not let go of his.
Are you certain it used the word "believer"? Because I have an E-Bible and used the search feature to look up the word "believer", and out of the entire Bible, Genesis through Rev., it only returned one result for that word (New King James Version). Here is the one result it returned: 2 Cor 6:15 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? NKJV I looked up the term "God's hand" and that didn't return anything. I looked up "let go" and "not let go" and that returned four results, 2 from the NT, and none related to the verse which you pointed out.
