Obama has permenantly won me over with this comment!

[Ganymede]

During last nights debate, when he was asked who's America's most important allies? He responded "Nato & the European Union". He didn't endorse Israel until Brian Williams brought it up. Which I thought was very brave of him. Imagine how cool that would be, to have a President that's not completely behind the zionists. I love Jews, but don't agree with Zionism. Or maybe I'm just saturated with wishful thinking? Because the Ticket is going to be Obama & Hillary, they're just fighting over who's going to be Vice President. WoW, in a way I just contradicted my own post. Because Hillary is heavily influenced by the Jewish lobby. Oh well, that's what's so exciting about politics, it's a challenge trying to decipher the true motivations behind a politicians actions.


***And one more thing**** How come the pundits where so hard on Obama last night? While all the polls indicated that Obama won the debate hands down, the pundits say he did horrible. I thought he did awesome. When I hear him speak, it's like he's channeling JFK, which makes me worry. Any uniter will be assasinated, and Obama is the only politician that can unite America. I can't count how many far right Republican friends of mine come up to me and say "You know, I really like this Obama guy". And I've never heard a Republican say that about any Democrat. What's interesting is when MSNBC took a poll and asked who won the debate, it was Obama hands down. And every other poll I've seen so far has indicated the same. This is going to be a turning point in our Nations History.

[IceAgeCivilizations]

If not for Zionism, where would the Jews live unpersecuted?

[Ganymede]

If not for Zionism, where would the Jews live unpersecuted?

America. We have plenty of open space to allocate to the jews. Israel is the 52nd state anyway. They might as well be in America. It would save the tax payers billions.

[IceAgeCivilizations]

And the Jews should have no say in this?

[Ganymede]

And the Jews should have no say in this?

Sure they could. But unfortunately, Hamas won't cease blowing Israeli childdren to pieces until they end the occupation. Israel will remain in a permanent state of war as long as there's a Jewish State in the middle of the Arab terrirtory.

[IceAgeCivilizations]

So since you say Israel has no right to exist, how can you say you like Jews?

[spidergoat]

Zionism is irrelevent. Israel is already a soveriegn nation. That's like saying, "I love the blacks, but there won't be peace in the US until they go back to Africa.".

[Oniw17]

Because Isreal actually doesn't have the right to exist? Also, we have politicians who don't think the EU is our most important ally(I don't pay attention to politics very much)?

[IceAgeCivilizations]

Great post #7 spidergoat.

[TruthSeeker]

Zionism is irrelevent. Israel is already a soveriegn nation. That's like saying, "I love the blacks, but there won't be peace in the US until they go back to Africa.".

True. But, unfortunately, the whole conflict in the middle east started when a whole bunch of palestinians were dislocated so that Israel could be formed...

So how can we solve this now?

[Nickelodeon]

2 states.

[IceAgeCivilizations]

There was no Palestinian nation there, your premise is flawed.

[spidergoat]

I don't think that's the central issue. These displaced Arabs of 50 years ago have been exploited as a wedge (perpetual victimhood, anyone?), the real issue is that Muslim nationalists hate the Jews being there at all, and they lost the war.

[Ganymede]

Zionism is irrelevent. Israel is already a soveriegn nation. That's like saying, "I love the blacks, but there won't be peace in the US until they go back to Africa.".

I never said Israel doesn't have the right to exist. But why would you want to exist in a part of the world that despises you? Israel does have the right to exist, but I think it's counter productive in the way it was orhcestrated. Let me ask you this, lets say China becomes more powerful then the USA in 40 years. And they decided that they wanted a Native American State. And they went to Kansas, and placed a plethora of Native Americans there. Then armed thim with Mig-29's. And told the Americans to suck it up?

[TruthSeeker]

There was no Palestinian nation there, your premise is flawed.

You are right. There was no Palestinian nation. However, there were palestinians living there. The whole point is that they were dislocated.

[Ganymede]

I don't think that's the central issue. These displaced Arabs of 50 years ago have been exploited as a wedge (perpetual victimhood, anyone?), the real issue is that Muslim nationalists hate the Jews being there at all, and they lost the war.

Do you think Blonde hair and Blue eyed Jews were the true natives of that reigon? That's like Africans going to Spain and claiming it as their own because the moors once conqured it.

[TruthSeeker]

I don't think that's the central issue. These displaced Arabs of 50 years ago have been exploited as a wedge (perpetual victimhood, anyone?), the real issue is that Muslim nationalists hate the Jews being there at all, and they lost the war.

Do you remember that both religions deem Jerusalem as a very important sacred city?

[Ganymede]

A.D. Ruler *
1273 BCE Israel Conquest of Canaan ** under Joshua,

423 BCE Iranian Babylon invades and destroys First Temple [Persian empire was based in modern day Iran]

371 BCE Israel
Iranian King Cyrus issued decree to restore Jewish Nation

312 BCE Israel
Greek Battle of Gaza; Seleucus controls Syria and Babylonia [Seleucid empire was based in Macedonia, northern Greece]

285-246 BCE Israel
Egyptian Rule of Ptolemy II

199 BCE Israel
Greek Seleucid monarchy occupies Judea **

175 BCE Israel
Greek-Syrian Antiochus Epiphanes came to throne in Syria

168 BCE Israel
Greek-Syrian Pagan idol set up in Temple

165 BCE Israel
Greek-Syrian Macabean Revolt, beginning of Hasmonean dynasty

142 BCE Israel Shimon rules and gains Judean indepence

135-104 BCE Israel Rule of Yochanan Hyrkanus

104-103 BCE Israel Rule of Yehudah Aristobulus

103-76 BCE Israel Rule of Alexander Yannai

76-66 BCE Israel Rule of Salome Alexandra

63 BCE Israel
Roman Civil War: Hyrkanus vs. Aristobulus. Pompey intervenes, Conquest of Jerusalem by Pompey, Judea becomes Roman Vassal.

47 BCE Israel
Roman Caesar appoints Antipater ruler of Judea

70 Roman The Romans conquer Jerusalem

132-136 Roman Jewish revolt under Bar Kochba; final defeat of Judah and loss of political sovereignty, rename area to "Palestine" **

351 Roman Jewish revolt to end foreign rule; Roman Empire adopts Christianity.

395 Turkish Palestine part of the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire, still called Judea or Judah.

438 Turkish Empress Eudocia allows Jews back to Temple site, misinterpreted by Jews as return to nationhood.

614 Iran Persian conquest under Chosroes (with the support of a Jewish army).

628 Turkish "Palestine" reconquered by the Byzantines

633-637 Syrian Arab conquest; shortly afterward, attempt by Jews to restore their nation.

639 Syrian Muawiyah Arab governor.

660 Syrian Muawiyah is made the first Omayyad Caliph of Damascus.

661 Syrian Murder of Ali; Omayyad Dynasty begins.

750 Iraq Last Omayyad Caliph defeated; reign of the Abbassid Caliphs of Baghdad (Persian, Turk, Circassian, Kurd).

878 Egyptian Ahmad, b. Tulun, a Turkish general and governor of Egypt, conquers Palestine; reign of the Tulunides (Turks).

904 Iraq The Abbassids of Baghdad reconquer Palestine.

906 Carmathians Inroads of the Carmathians.

934 Egyptian The Egyptian lkhshidi princes conquer Palestine; their reign begins.

969 Egyptian The Fatimid Caliphs of Cairo conquer Palestine.

969-971 Carmathians War with the Carmathians.

970-976 Turkish Byzantine invasion.

1070-1080 Turkish Seljuq Turks conquer Palestine.

1099 Crusaders The Crusaders conquer Jerusalem, massacre the Jewish and Muslim populations; reign in parts of Palestine until 1291.

1187 Crusaders Saladin of Damascus, a Kurd, captures Jerusalem and the greater part of Palestine.

1244 Mongolian The Kharezmians, instigated by Genghis Khan, invade Palestine; Jerusalem's population is slaughtered, the city sacked.

1260 Egyptian Mameluk Sultans of Egypt defeat Mongols at Ain Jalut, in Palestine; their reign begins.

1260 Egyptian Mongol invasion; Jerusalem sacked.

1291 Egyptian End of the Latin (Crusaders) Kingdom.

1299-1303 Mongolian Mongol invasion.

1516-1517 Turkish The Ottomans conquer Palestine.

1799 French Napoleon conquers Palestine, but is defeated at Acre.

1831 Egyptian Ibrahim Pasha, adopted son of Egypt's Viceroy, occupies Palestine.

1840 Turkish Ibrahim Pasha compelled by the Powers to leave Palestine; Turkish rule restored.

1840 Turkish English writers and statesmen begin to discuss the possibility of a Jewish restoration.

1871-1882 Turkish First Jewish agricultural settlements.

1909 Turkish Foundation of the all-Jewish city of Tel Aviv.

1917-1918 British Allies occupy the whole of Palestine, east and west of the Jordan River; British military administration, end of Ottoman reign.

1917-1918 British Balfour Declaration granting "Jewish Homeland" internationally approved.

1920 British British (pre-Mandate) civil administration; Turkish sovereignty renounced, treaty includes Balfour Declaration

1922 British Palestine Mandate; Jewish National Home confirmed.

1923 British Palestine Mandate comes into operation.

1923 British Seventy-five percent of Palestine is set aside as an independent Arab "Palestinian" state, Transiordan.

1925 British Hebrew University of Jerusalem opened.

1927 British High Commissioners receive Commission for Transjordan.

1929 British Arab revolt.

1936-1939 British Arab revolt and civil war.

1946 British Establishment of Arab state of Transiordan.

1948 Israel End of Mandate for Palestine; establishment of State of Israel; Arab-Jewish war.

1948 Israel Eastern Palestine-Transjordan-.occupies the West Bank area of Western Palestine, becomes "Jordan," constituting over eighty percent of Palestine

[spidergoat]

Do you think Blonde hair and Blue eyed Jews were the true natives of that reigon? That's like Africans going to Spain and claiming it as their own because the moors once conqured it.

Yes.

[Ganymede]

Yes.

Interesting I allways thought it was inhabited by the masses that lived there now which is Arabs. I thought Blonde hair and Blue eyes isn't something that evolved from a hot desert covered reigon. But I stand corrected. We learn something new everyday.